Episode 103 - Carolyn Ray, JourneyWoman
Women travelers are creating multiple communities of their own, as well as coming together to demand rights and representation. In an era where solo women travel and sustainable tourism are moving from trend to norm, communities are all the more critical for informing, inspiring, and empowering women to travel well.
Even better, women are coming together, building communities and networks that are going to be empowering, supportive, and lifting others as they move through the new terrain. Women are exploring the world and taking big risks, with and without family and friends. Women are the new travel experts.
Solo travel is something that Christine recommends for everyone, regardless of gender identity. If you have never traveled solo, or are feeling uncertain about traveling solo, this episode will ignite a passion for exploring the world on your own.
Traveling will so greatly expand your life, and you are never truly alone, unless you want to be.
Christine’s guest today, Carolyn Ray, encourages female solo travelers to go out and explore the world.
Carolyn Ray believes that anything is possible when you set your intention and follow your intuition. After 25 years in consulting, most recently as the CEO of Interbrand Canada, she gave up everything she owned to travel full-time after a transformative trip to Kenya with her daughter in 2018.
The following year, through a series of coincidences, she unexpectedly became the owner of JourneyWoman, the beloved women’s solo travel publication founded in 1994 to empower women with travel as a shared passion.
During the pandemic, she transitioned to a new career as a professional travel writer and is now expanding JourneyWoman’s services as the world’s leading resource for solo women travellers beyond editorial into a thriving community of over 60,000 women 50+ around the world, with private forums, a book club, webinars, and events.
In August 2021, she acquired a second website which connects women travellers with women-owned businesses, creating the world’s largest Women’s Travel Directory with hundreds of verified women-friendly tours, retreats, guide and accommodations around the world. Carolyn is a board member of the Society of American Travel Writers (SATW), the Travel Media Association of Canada and the North America Travel Journalists Association (NATJA).
Trained as a CTI Co-active Coach, Carolyn actively mentors emerging leaders and was ranked as one of Canada’s top 100 female entrepreneurs on the PROFIT/ Chatelaine W100 list.
In this conversation, Christine and Carolyn talk about the importance of community and the privilege it is to be a leader in such sacred spaces of connection for women. They also talk about how they feel is important to shift cultural norms around honoring the wisdom of women in the modern Western cultures. This was such a rich conversation that brought on both laughter, and tears, and Christine treasures the authentic and vulnerable connection.
Join Christine now for her soulful conversation with Carolyn Ray.
In this episode, Christine and Carolyn discuss:
Creating a space where the wisdom of women is revered and sacred
Connecting with women around the world
What is different about a community of women in travel?
Solo travel is a path that helps us to get to all these different places
How JourneyWoman came to be
The importance of embracing the knowledge of the women who have gone before you
When you have that many women together, you can really impact that change
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about JourneyWoman and find out more information about safe solo travel for women, head over to https://journeywoman.com/
The JourneyWoman Women’s Travel Directory, connecting women with women-friendly tours, retreats, guides and accommodations https://directory.journeywoman.com
Embracing the Unknown Women's Travel Survey (in market September 2022)
Are you a travel writer? If so, write for JourneyWoman! https://journeywoman.com/write-for-journeywoman
Follow JourneyWoman on your favorite social media platform: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter
Listen to Carolyn Ray share her passion for travel on the JourneyWoman Podcast
Join me for my Women’s Wilderness and Yoga Retreat in Alaska in March 2023!
We’ll be traveling 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle to stay at Arctic Hive, owned by my friend Mollie Busby and her husband Sean. This boutique property nestled in the Brooks Range is way off the beaten path and also off grid. We’ll stay in beautiful cabins built by hand by our hosts, practice yoga in their yoga dome lovingly referred to as The Hive, with gorgeous views of the surrounding nature.
We’ll explore the wilderness by snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice and vegan meals all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful northern lights that like to show off their magic this time of year.
I only have 6 spaces for this unique adventure and a few are already taken. Hop over to the Lotus Sojourns website to book yours today.
Please share this experience with anyone you know would love this restorative adventure.
Want to learn more, you can listen to my Soul of Travel conversation, episode 67 with Mollie Busby
Visit www.lotussojourns.com/journeys to join this unique travel experience today.
To watch this interview on YouTube HERE.
Learn more about Lotus Sojourns
Looking for ways to be a part of the community, learn more here.
Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women.
Follow us on Instagram: @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast
LOVE these conversations...support the production of this podcast by making a donation here!
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of this year’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.
The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.
These conversations are meant to educate, inspire and create community. They are directed to new travelers and seasoned travelers, as well as industry professionals and those who are curious about a career in travel.
If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Carolyn Ray (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.
Transcript
KEYWORDS
travel, women, world, people, community, journey, create, experiences, book, connect, conversation, life, pandemic, talk, solo, spent, space,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08
Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.
Carolyn Ray believes that anything is possible when you set your intention and follow your intuition. After 25 years in consulting, most recently as a CEO of Interbrand, Canada, she gave up everything she owned to travel full time after a transformative trip to Kenya with her daughter in 2018. The following year, through a series of coincidences, she unexpectedly became the owner of JourneyWoman, the beloved women's solo travel publication, founded in 1994, to empower women with travel as a shared passion.
During the pandemic, she transitioned to a new career as professional travel writer, and is now expanding JourneyWoman services as the world's leading resource for solo women travelers beyond editorial into a thriving community of over 60,000 women ages 50 and up around the world with private forums, a book club, webinars and events. In August of 2021, she acquired a second website which connects women travelers with women owned businesses, creating the world's largest women's travel directory, with hundreds of verified women friendly tours, retreats, guides and accommodations around the world. Carolyn is a board member of the Society of American travel writers, the travel Media Association of Canada, and the North American travel Journalists Association.
In our conversation, Carolyn and I talk about the importance of community, as well as the privilege it is to be a leader in such sacred spaces of connection for women. We also talk about how we feel it is important to shift cultural norms around honoring the wisdom of women in modern Western cultures. This was such a rich conversation that brought on both laughter, and tears, and I treasure the authentic and vulnerable connection. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Carolyn Ray. Welcome to the soul of travel.
I am so excited today to be welcoming Carolyn Ray of JourneyWomen to the podcast. JourneyWoman is a community that I've been following for almost my whole travel career. I remember hearing it kind of popping in and out and it always being this space that I was super curious about. And we finally connected this year. And so I'm just really excited to bring you in to talk about this community, which I think is so incredible on the podcast today. So welcome, Carolyn.
04:16
Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here, Christine. Anytime we can talk about women and the power of women. I am up for
Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:22
it. Yes, me too. So I think we're going to start on the right page with that. Just as we get started. I would love for you to briefly introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about journey women and then we'll take it from there.
04:36
Sure. So I'm the CEO and Editor of JourneyWoman which is currently a 28 year old Hello Travel Publication that was started in 1994 by Evelyn Hannon. And Evelyn was 78 when she passed away and I was very fortunate to be invited by her and her family to carry on her legacy with a dirty woman who is, you know, widely regarded. It is kind of the first solo travel publication for women. And it's certainly one of the oldest. And I think one of the most influential solo travel publications in the world, we have a very large mailing list and have been, I think, over the pandemic, building more of the community through online channels.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 05:21
Yeah, thank you, I actually went, I'm preparing to travel. And I was trying to think about packing. And it feels like it's been so long since I've traveled that I'm like, I don't know if I remember how to do this. So I went to the website, and I found blogs and posts and things and recommendations. And so I've already used it in a very practical way, just in the last two weeks. I appreciate it. Well, to begin our conversation, what I would really love to talk about is the premise of this season of the podcast is understanding the shifts and changes that the women I'm speaking to are working to create in the world. And I think that this really comes from our personal mission, which ends up being expressed in our careers. And I was reading a great book by Dr. Terror i trends, and she talks about our great hunger, which is like this problem that we're trying to solve in the world, or this thing that we can't kind of walk away from it just follows us. And so I would love to ask you, Carolyn, like, what is the change that you see yourself trying to create in the world,
06:35
I think one of the things that I really think a lot about when you talk about change in the world is and it's something that seems to happen more in Western cultures and in other parts of the world is the respect we have for older people, and in particular, older women. And when you travel as much as I do to different places around the world, you really see how revered older women are in Mexico, for example, where I spent the last four months or, or other places in. And it feels to me sometimes like we've lost that. And so part of what gets me excited is being advocates for women over 50. The women in our, in our group or in our community are so brave and so courageous. And they're the ones who led the way for the rest of us. And I really want to try and recognize that in everything that I do. As a journey woman via editorial or events or our advisory council or community calls or whatever we're doing. I always want to advocate for women, you know, of a certain age, because I'm a Gen Xer and I sometimes feel like the Gen Xers are ignored. And I want to advocate for you know, women and gen two, because we've still got a lot of work to do around the world to create more gender equality for all women. And as a mother, I want to be a good role model for my daughter, who I think will be going out into the world and creating all kinds of meaningful change.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 08:04
So yeah, I know that that's one thing that we really connected on initially is this honoring and kind of creating a space where the wisdom of women is revered and sacred again, like, like you said, culturally, that's creating a space and changing the conversation around that wisdom that women keep. And I think it has, like you mentioned, been really lost in our culture. And when you travel, you do see that.
And I think that's one of those things, when I traveled as well that I noticed. And I thought, just the way women gather in general is very different, that there's a very different energy. And you know, whether it's a society where women are still oppressed or not, the way women gather is very different. And the way they treat each other, I think, is very different. And then also this idea that reaching old age is something to aspire to. It's not where in our culture where you immediately start in your 20s like trying to combat your wrinkles and your gray hair and like exercise.
Like all these things. We're just fighting aging. We never get to this point until I think much later in our culture where we're like, Oh, wait. Wisdom and age are amazing things. And so I think creating a community where we can talk about that and shift that perspective is so important. And I know for me traveling as a younger traveler, when I have the opportunity to travel with people that were in their 50s 60s 70s My experiences were so enriched by hearing the stories of their lives and seeing it through the lens of their life experiences that I feel like we are really missing something by not celebrating that
10:00
Yeah, you know, it's funny we did, we did an article last year, it's called what women 65 and older, know that you don't. And I'm just in the process of updating that article now with some new input and feedback, but you know, there's a certain power and not giving a damn anymore. And he reached this point in your life. And I, you know, I, when I turned 50, a few years ago, I kind of felt that way, like I had had it with all of society's rules, and all the things I was supposed to be doing and the path that we go down and I went down that path, you know, I had the, the, the workaholic job, I got the house, I had the toys, I had the I had the possessions, and, and you reach a certain point in your life, and you go, Okay, hang on, this is not working for me anymore. And I think what these women, these older women show us is, as you don't have to always conform to society's rules, you can make your own rules, and you gotta do what's right for you. And sometimes you don't have the confidence to do that until later in life. But having good role models is such an important part of having, you know, the strength and confidence to say, I am not going to confirm anymore. I'm going to know what I feel in my heart?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 11:16
Yes. Like you said, having people model that for you. And I think again, another kind of symptom of our culture is this being so separate from one another. So like I mentioned, when you travel, and you see the way women gather, you do have people that you were constantly around that you're looking up to that are showing you the way and you know, we especially in that mode that you were talking about where you're going through the motions of you know, completing college and getting the right job and the right partner and the right house and all these things, you realize that all of a sudden, and I feel like this is a moment a lot of women reach and then they find journey woman they find Lotus sojourns is like you are buried head down in living this life. And then you like, look up, and you go, what have I done? Like you said, What have I created? Who am I? Why have I done this, and then we start seeking these women, I think, to show us how we can unravel all of that, and then become the version of ourselves that we get to be, you know, moving forward.
12:20
Yeah, and I love what you said about connecting with women, because even I was in Mexico, and in May, and I went out to some of the villages and I spent the day with a woman that was teaching a cooking class, and she spoke Spanish, I my Spanish is not great, but we still connected, because our stories are so similar, you know, single mothers and going through abusive, you know, experiences and all this stuff that that we have, and we share in common as women, this is the stuff that really connects us. And it's incredible that you can have such a meaningful experience with somebody who has such a different life than you that the only way to have those experiences is to get out and travel and meet women like this and look for those incredible women that are in these small villages that are so much like us in every way.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 13:15
Yeah, I think those experiences for me are always what I take home, you know, everybody kind of, or not everybody, people often set out to travel with this idea of things they want to see and, you know, activities that they want to to check off a list or things that sound exciting to them. And then at the end of the day, it's these experiences of connection that really stay with us long term. And then I think especially powerful to me, are the ones where you have a moment like that where you think I don't know how we'll connect, because our lives are so different. Our circumstances are so different. And then you find yourself like giggling about how your teenager doesn't listen to you, or how you know, your husband's a workaholic, and, you know, whatever that looks like, but then all of a sudden you see each other and you're just it just changes how you feel about people across the board. Like it really is. So connecting that it's
14:11
like this moment where it's like I see you, you see me and we are the same no matter what country you're in. You know, I had that experience in Kenya too. I traveled there with my daughter in 2018. And I took her to Kenya thinking it was going to change her and change her perspective. And as she was going into university and and I had all these kinds of expectations for her and it ended up changing me more than her I think, because that was the moment that I came back and I realized the path I was on to acquire more possessions and things like that was not a path I needed to be on anymore and that's when I came home and downsized and auctioned off my house and did all those things just to travel because I thought oh my gosh, if I can have that same feeling of joy without of the physical manifestations that I, you know, was socially brought up with it just when you simplify your mindset and simplify your life in that way, it just makes a huge difference, because you realize all I really need is people. And yes, I just need people. I don't need things anymore.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 15:19
Yeah, I Yes, I agree so much. I think that would be a great time to talk about the importance of community. So as you mentioned, Journey woman that is really what it has evolved to, especially in the last two years, you've been able to focus on that I think like many of us have, because in the absence of being able to connect with people, like immediately close to us, we've connected with people all around the world through zoom like we're doing, and it has opened so many doors. And I think we also became so much more aware of how much we needed each other when we couldn't have each other what what has community meant to you in terms of the journey woman community, but what has it also meant to you as a as a woman, and as someone who has, you know, taken over the the task of being kind of the head of this community? Well, in
16:11
In terms of JourneyWoman, I have to admit, when I was invited to take over this website, I thought, Oh, it's a website. And I'll be able to travel and write about travel. That's how simplistic my mindset was, when we announced When Erica M. and I announced this shift, and that Evelyn had passed away and that I was taking over. I had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of emails, phone calls, messages. I mean, for days and days and days, I was responding to every single one of them, and about how much Evelyn meant to them, and how much of a journey a woman meant to them. And I realized that, that this was not just a website, and I hadn't fully appreciated that until that moment. And so what community has man is the women that have created journeyWoman because it is a co created. website. It's based on firsthand feedback from women. It's based on their tips. It's based on this openness and sharing and generosity that I don't think exists anywhere else. It's just amazing. So they are not just readers or members. In fact, we don't charge or anything like that to be part of the journey woman community.
There's this exchange of we're sharing our wisdom with each other all the time. And that's a really, really special thing. And until I stepped into the shoes that were relaxed for me the Evelyn's boots, Evelyn's red boots, I had no idea what what this was, and I was quite unprepared for it, and all the feedback and all the ideas, but you know what you just gotta like, step into that and embrace it. And in the first little while I was quiet when I got all kinds of feedback of things I was doing wrong or things they didn't like, you know, and I realized over time that it was because they cared so much about journey woman and I feel so lucky that I've had this opportunity for me because I'm very introverted. I really don't, I don't see myself as being out in the spotlight. i i Even doing this interview with you, you know, it's something I've had to get used to over the last few years. Even though I have leadership positions in the past, this is like my heart, this business is my heart, I'm gonna cry.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 18:37
Thank you. I can truly relate to it. Because there's something that when you create a space for women, and they are so fully engaged and there for one another, to be able to sit in that space feels like such a treasure. And when you realize you are much like you, I'm an introvert and also deeply in love. Here we are. We are doing this thing I love, it is so sacred, it's so sacred. And when it comes from, like I So, love when I see people connect, and when I see people share their energy and their love for one another with one another. It's magic every single time every single time I see someone connect and witness one another and light up and support one another. I just think something has shifted in this world. And there was a small miracle and I got to be present to it. And it's very, very personal. And so I think it's so interesting. When women get to step into a role like this, we aren't taught how to be emotional and be leaders. We've been taught to be leaders and like to drop all emotion. And so it's a very trusting space. And I imagine for you to navigate that much like, you know, we just experienced, it's very, it's impossible to separate those things. And then to learn how to have them in the same space has been a journey,
20:13
I got journey woman tattooed on me last year, because I so strongly feel that this was, you know, was an unexpected path for me, I was, I was doing consulting for 25 years, I was going to travel the world, I never expected that, that something like this would happen to me, and, and there's all these, you know, synchronicities that sometimes line up. And at the end of the day, what I've learned is, I just have to trust my intuition that this is, this is where I am supposed to be. And I am learning so much about myself and about women. And you know, and it's funny to say this, but you know, at a certain point in my career, I was like, I think I've learned everything I can learn and consulting and branding.
And marketing is kind of what I did before this, and, and maybe there was like, this moment when I went, I think I'm done learning. And the universe said, Oh, no, no, no, we are going to throw you back into something that you're completely unprepared for, but not good. No, I'm not, I'm prepared. And we're gonna give you a new challenge to face. So that's what the last three years have been for me. It's just been a tremendous challenge, but it has never felt like work. I love it. Like, my, my friends and family will tell you, I could do joining them and stuff 24 hours a day, you know, and, and often do, because it just is my passion and my heart and my love, and the in such an honor to represent these women, you know, and their stories and share them. I mean, it's just the honor of my life.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 21:45
Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I just think it's so amazing. For me, I didn't think that was something possible. And so then to meet other people that have that same role, or that same presence to community and to space, you know, spaces of people. It's just, it's so amazing. Like, I think I deeply wanted it. There's some part of me, always who believed in the interconnectedness of people. And I think that's what led me to travel because I think it's something that shows us that, but then landed eventually, like, I found myself creating communities of women everywhere I went, but I didn't realize I was doing it. And I remember being in some sort of workshop or something. And someone was like, will you just create a community of women?
And I'm like, No, I'm so shy. I don't do that. What are you talking about, and they're like, you started this group for breastfeeding moms. When you were doing that you started this group of entrepreneurs, when you were doing that you started a group for this, and like, oh, I have left communities of women in my wake, as I've moved through life. And as I've moved around the United States, I just didn't really realize that that's what I needed or wanted. And then the soul of travel has been that too. When I like to create a graphic with the pictures of all of the women who have spent time with me, like you're doing today, I'm so emotional that I cannot believe all of these people have, like, just come to this space, and shared so full of themselves. And it's just that I can't really find words for it. But it's just something I need. And I think people are so drawn to it. And I think that's where communities like drowning women are thriving, because we're just aching for that kind of connection.
23:32
And, you know, if we wait for someone else to do the things that we dream of, you know, and we say I wish somebody would start a group or start on such and such. The question is, why not you? Like, why not? Me? What? Why not? So I would encourage anyone who has an interest, just get out there and try it, the worst you can do is fail. But chances are you won't, because somebody's wondering the same thing as you about how can somebody represent this idea and bring people together and, and as you've said several times, I think we are hungry for connection and even more now, because now we value it, and we appreciate it. And maybe before the pandemic we took it for granted, you know that we could do whatever we wanted when we wanted and now we know how important it is not to just have the connection through our words and our discussions online, but also like, just to hug somebody now or just to like, touch somebody. You know, I remember the first time I touched somebody after spending like a year and a half without seeing anybody you know, like I will never take that for granted again. Not ever.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 24:42
Yeah, I am getting ready to go to my first industry event since I mean it feels like forever. And I'm like I'm so excited and I'm so nervous. I'm like am I going to remember how to be by all these people and how to talk to them and how they engage and And also I'm like I imagined just so much hugging because you've all been missing that. And it's also a very unique space. I think in the tourism industry. The way people are colleagues with one another is so different. I often have a hard time introducing people. I'm like, This is my colleague, friend, mentor, person. I love amazing people. I'm like, I don't know how to even introduce people because of the way we interact with people so differently, but I am just so excited for human interaction. Again,
25:32
we'll make those hex count, right? Yes,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 25:34
absolutely. Might get awkward.
25:37
It's gotta be like, you gotta hang on. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 25:41
some awkward hugging? Is it awkward?
25:43
Hug him for sure.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 25:45
Well, when you're talking about this community, and you mentioned that it originally was focused on solo, women travel? Why do you think that was so important? And what is different about a community of women traveling in that way, versus maybe a community of other travelers?
26:05
Well, when everyone started journey woman in 1994, it was because she had had her own experiences of not being able to find information by women, for women. At the time, a lot of the editorial was being written by men. And, and so she became this, you know, she was one of those women that said, Why not me? Why can't I write about this? And so she took that first step and started writing in a newsletter format, actually, first a printed newsletter. But I think we still have the same challenge we have, then we still have to represent the voices of women.
And things like safety are still issues they've broadened. So you know, even though journey woman might have started talking about physical safety, we're now talking about online safety, we're talking about human trafficking, we're talking about all kinds of new things that are an extension of that same ideas. So it's still highly, highly relevant for us to talk about that. And the other thing is that women have become the world's most influential travelers and make most travel decisions, we have a role to play, and we, you know, we can step into that role. And we can make a difference in the future of travel, whether it's through our own decisions, whether it's be more intentional, when we travel, where we spend our money, we have power that we may not even realize, is really important. And also, I think, and this is what I get excited about is I think we can make it better. And we can make solo travel better for women and safer for women. So that's what gets me excited is thinking about, Okay, what's next? And what's the future and, and being a bit disruptive and creating some change, you know, in the places where change is needed.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 27:46
Yeah. And when you have that many women together, sharing their stories and sharing their insights, like, that's when we can really impact that change. And when one person or you know, maybe several people have an awareness and then put words to it, and then we can start to address it. It's so amazing how quickly things can change versus, you know, again, and I can operate independently and try to solve all the things on our own. We just, we can't do that. And I just think it's amazing to see what that collective can create.
28:22
Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're about to launch a global study on solo travel, and I can't wait to hear how women are feeling about travel and who they trust and where we need to step in. And, and, you know, ageism, and, you know, all the things that we're talking about here, because I think that it's kind of never ending, but it's important. And if, if nothing else, that's what I want my legacy to be about is how I am helping empower women. And also, as I said earlier, being a role model for my daughter and other young women who I think are going to come out and kick some ass. You know, like, they've been kind of watching us generation Xers and you and getting out there and looking at the world with a different perspective. I think it's fantastic. There's so much that needs to be done. We need everybody.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 29:13
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that is incredible, as you see, now, women finding their voice and expressing it and having the means to express it. I mean, there you can go and listen to hundreds of podcasts right now talking about these things where we didn't have access to those conversations. And then that trajectory, like you said, for our daughters, I mean, I have three daughters. They're young, but they are like totally swore wheeling, like they are out here to make a difference. If they hear of injustice. They cannot stand for it. They don't understand inequity. They just won't be tolerated. I don't think that maybe we had that rebellion younger in our lives. We saw it and we were like, that's not going to happen. And then we went ahead and fell into the path anyway. I don't really see them doing that. I don't see them kind of just going blindly into some sort of cultural norm, I think they will continue to defy it. And that is where we're also going to see the change. And they have this generation to look towards now. And, and I think they are looking towards the women ahead of them for those
30:29
sunny like my first job when I was 25, or whatever, we were not allowed to wear pants or open toed shoes, we had to wear pantyhose to work, you know. And so I'm the one who wrote the memo to the CEO and gathered all the women and said, This has to change and we refuse and we own our patios anymore. And I look back that's, you know, 30 years ago or whatever, but it just shows you like you can change things. Like even if it's the most simple thing like that. It just takes one voice sometimes to change something so and as you say, the more of us that are together the better it is.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:11
That's such a powerful reflection, because I think sometimes we don't notice changes that have happened over the course of our lifetime. But I also very much remember, Oh, the dreadful things like women's suits and pantyhose and dress shoes. And you're like, why on earth don't men look as uncomfortable in the office as women do in the office? It's just, I mean,
31:33
I don't own a suit anymore. I haven't had one for years. No, no, thank you.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:38
Right. And we're still very professional. So I think, yes, it's just a small change. But I mean, it's kind of funny to think about it. Now. When you are talking with women who are traveling, I think about what I see a lot, especially for women who are 50 and older that are traveling, and kind of you mentioned, like this reached this point where like, no one else's opinion of me actually matters. And many of the things I've been chasing don't matter. And they really then start to be looking at who they are, and bringing that into their professional career into their tribal life. What do you see out of this community in terms of honoring themselves, and, and bringing that forward and kind of encouraging each other to do that as well?
32:25
Well, I see this every day, we have a private Facebook group where, you know, a lot of women are coming into it. And of course, the first step is just introducing yourself and sometimes being a little vulnerable, you know, and saying, you know, I'm 50. I have never traveled by myself, I'm terrified. In fact, I can tell you another story, which is about a friend of mine, who is exactly that, and she's in, her mother doesn't want her to travel because her mother is afraid for her. And I said to her, you know, what's your where are the places that you want to go? Well, she wants to go to Burma and India, like I said, Holy cow, like you, this isn't just about going to Mexico, this is like you want to get out and see the world and have different experiences.
So I think what I see in our community is women that it's not an ego thing, it's a it's a, you can do it, you know, you can do it. And even if you just take one small step forward, it doesn't have to be a huge thing. It can be just a little thing, but just do something to start walking down that path. And that's very often what I see is, is okay, I've chosen in place or okay, I, I've taken a train by myself or I've had dinner by myself or I, I went and stayed in a hotel by myself in my own town, like just something to give you a little boost of confidence. And then you do all these things, and they add up, right? So that's what I love about our communities is I have never seen anyone be negative ever. And it's just constantly, you know, like encouragement. And if you need me, I'm here. I can't tell you how many friendships have developed, whether it's through our community calls or book clubs, or whatever we're doing, where and then I see people getting together in real life and posting their photos. And I'm like, oh, exactly, this is exactly what I dreamed would happen. So,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 34:30
yeah, yeah, I think that it is, like you said, or like a scenario like witnessing that magic. It's just such a special thing to like, to see it move from a virtual world into the real world. And then just knowing that that vision that we have is true, and that it's really impacting people, which is what's more important anyway. It's like we just want those connections for other people as much as we want them for ourselves.
34:57
Because this isn't just about traveling right there. There's a bigger story here, which is about who is the person you are meant to be in your life. And I think travel is one way that you can get there. Because it teaches you all the things you need to know who you are, to know what your values are, to know what you're capable of. So it's not just about going out and traveling, this is about discovering yourself. And that's what I think all of this is about. And solo travel. In particular, when you go out into the world on your own, it is scary, and there's no man to, you know, do something for you, you are on your own. And you have to know how to be independent and courageous, and not be afraid to walk into that restaurant, get a table by yourself, or whatever the situation may be. So you know, when you're traveling as a solo traveler, and you kind of reenter your life, if you will, you're going to be changed person, there's something that's going to be different about you because you have confidence maybe that you didn't have before, or you have a perspective, from something you've witnessed on your travels, or you've made a connection that is going to change your life and lead you in a different path. This is it isn't just about travel, this is about your
Christine Winebrenner Irick 36:10
life. Yeah, I feel like I wish I could put a big exclamation point out into the universe for that. I mean, I think that's really for me, again, like travel is just this expression, or this path that helps us to get to all these different places. So I totally agree with you. And that solo travel, whether it's like you said, Were you whether you're kind of beginning, this self discovery, and you're staying at a hotel across town, or you are just taking yourself to the movies so that you can get comfortable making those decisions and being in your own space. And then you start doing these other things. I mean, I'm even preparing to travel for the first time by myself in a long time. And I see I feel some of those doubts creeping again, like, Are you sure you can do this? Are you sure you're gonna be able to figure out the train schedule, are you and I'm like, okay, you've gone to the Amazon jungle, I am very sure that you're gonna be able to figure out the train schedule in Switzerland. But like, my brain needs to be wired back into that way again, because I haven't done it in so long. And because I've witnessed that circle, I can't wait to get home to just be like, Okay, we did all the things that we didn't think we could do. And we're great, because we did them.
37:26
Yeah. And I think the new, you know, if I had to say, like a new trait, just from my recent travel experiences is, is because things are so messed up right now. Like, they still are, right? We're not, you know, they weren't perfect before. They're not great. Now, if they're getting better. But you can never accept the first answer you get either because everybody's confused about this, that and the other so. So just one piece of advice is if you are traveling, and you, you know, you ask a question, for example, where am I in my bag? I don't know, like somebody that simple or what? asked again, and again, and again, because you'll get different answers from everyone you ask, and you want to like you kind of have to round it up in a different way than it did then in the past. Because because there's so much information overload and there's so much change, that what one person tells you may not be accurate, you know, it's just, it's just weird, you have to and that and I mentioned that because it can create some lack of confidence with people that they don't know what's going on. And I would just say it's not you. It's just a lot of change happening.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 38:36
Right ability, the ability to really lean in and trust your intuition and that if you're feeling like what you're you're hearing is maybe not the definitive truth, truth, you have to do like a little truth, shuffling and listen to yourself and try to find the way which is another thing that makes travel so empowering is that like, really listening to yourself and and trusting like that is just what you have to rely upon, especially as a solo traveler.
39:03
And there's a bit of a related topic to that Christine, which I call ground truthing which is you know, even there's been a lot of fear created to around certain destinations, some places and I think people are still afraid some of us to, to perhaps travel at all, and because it's you know, it's scary, like you can lose your luggage or, you know, delays or cancellations and this kind of thing and, and, you know, I'm the last few weeks I've spent four months in Mexico, I just came back from Medellin in Colombia, and you know, been in Africa like, we have to go find out for ourselves what is happening in these places and not be not be afraid from a headline or something that we read. We have to ask other women and again, this is the power of community. Ask you know, have you been there? How was it? You know, we met again and Colombia was a place I never thought I would feel comfortable after everything I've heard and grown up with. It is the most beautiful, friendly place. I can't wait to go back. And I'm going to be writing about that total shift in my perception. And I would not have known that had I not gone there myself and found out
Christine Winebrenner Irick 40:14
for myself. Yeah, absolutely. And I Yes, I can. I think that the other power of travel is the rewriting of the narratives and the understanding that we have of destinations. I mean, it's really one of my favorite things when I travel and I get to see that, like, just dumped out. And then you're like, Oh, here's the way that it really is. And then moving forward, like, the next time you read something about Colombia, you are going to read it through a filter of the experience that you've had there.
40:44
Yeah. And the same with Mexico, right? Because I hear Mexico does not say for women, I'm like, A, you're maybe going to the wrong places. But I mean, there are many places in Mexico that are lovely and safe. And I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 41:00
Yeah. Well, I would love to talk about the journey woman award. I think that's another part of the work that you guys are doing that is so important to begin to honor other women in the tourism industry. As where we almost met, we were sitting at the same table, and I was too nervous to be like, Oh, wait, I think that was Carolyn Ray. All right. But yeah, so this year at wits, you are able to deliver an award to anabolic for her work in regenerative thinking and sustainable travel, and also just really showing how women could contribute to positive change. I would love to hear more, a little bit more about how that award came to be and why that's so important. Right now.
41:46
They're well, and Anna was our second. Our second winner, the first winner last year was Alessandra Alonso at women and travel CIC out of the UK, also an incredible woman the award came to be because Santos and I want to go. We're talking about Evelyn Hannon. And, she had this lifetime achievement award, which is what it was called previously. And I approached her and I said, Would you consider Evelyn as a candidate for this?'' And she said, Oh, I'm going to one up you. I would like to name the award after Evelyn, and give it out in her honor. And so that's what the journey woman award is.
So it's a lifetime achievement for a woman in the travel industry. And so we go through a whole process of nominations and reviewing those nominations. And this year, there were a few of us that did that including Alessandra who participated in the selection. And I was so thrilled that Anna was nominated and won this. And I actually spoke to her the morning that this was given out now, I realized she didn't. She wasn't aware that she had one. So I had to dial back my congratulations a little bit. But I've now spoken to her many times. And you know, she has spent the last 50 years of her career, you know, advocating for change and thinking around regenerative tourism. And it's funny I see her now quoted on all these websites, like transformational travel has her quota. And I'm like, wow, she really is amazing.
And, and what's even more amazing is she told me that, you know, I think she had decided to kind of dial it back to like, she's 73. And she thought, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, my voice, you know, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to step back a little bit. And when she won this award, she decided to step it up. So now she's doing all kinds of amazing things. And she's just out there. So I'm so happy for her. I'm so happy that you know that this all came together in such a beautiful way. But mostly I'm happy for her and, and for her being acknowledged for her contributions to travel and tourism and him and then her and her wonderful perspective on everything. I mean, I could talk to her all day. I hope to meet her in London in a few weeks and can't wait.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 44:02
Yeah, I think, you know, it's such an example of the way that we need to embrace the knowledge of the women that have gone before us because like you said, if she was starting to feel like Well, now's the time that I should probably sit down and, and stop carrying this torch that I've been carrying for 50 years. And it really is the time that she's getting the stage and finally getting the acknowledgement for all of the work that she has done. And I think it's such a great example for really valuing that, that wisdom and, and also just the space that she's been in. It's taken so long for people to appreciate the message and the work. I mean, I have been working in the area of sustainable travel for 20 years and I know it's like the beginning of my career. It was kind of like oh, you're one of those people. How annoying. Go sit over there. Now it's fine. Emily is like, Okay, we are ready. We're ready for this message. And like, No, there's no better person than someone who's been deeply living this for so long in the industry to be sharing
45:12
and practically created the term. I mean, you know, this, this whole thing exists because of her. Yeah, yeah. So you know, it's a message to all of us is don't dial it back, dial it up. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 45:24
yeah, absolutely. Well, I, this has been amazing. I appreciate this so much. Before we go, I just wanted to share. For people that are looking for travel, I know that you have created a women's travel directory, can you just talk about that really quickly, because I would love for people to be able to have that
45:45
course. So kind of out of the pandemic, one of the things that I want to do as an entrepreneur is support other entrepreneurs. So we've created a women's travel directory on our website that lists women friendly tours, retreats, accommodations, and guides. And I believe it is the only one of its kind in the world where we've got, you can search by destination. So if you're a woman looking to travel in a group, for example, what better way to do that than by supporting another woman entrepreneur. And, we also have reviews and all kinds of, you know, systems to help improve not just the way you search, but also the companies that are in our directory want to improve and want the feedback. So we look at safety, reputation, and cost. And these are all the criteria that we're looking at these companies with, and the ones that achieve our standards, we call them journey woman verified. So they're ones that are going above and beyond to serve women that have been in business for a long time that are credible, that have safety procedures in place, and things like that.
So this is, you know, group tours are often a really good way for a woman who hasn't traveled solo to kind of take that first step. And, then I'm hoping to build up the retreat, and we offer free listings to guides as well, which can be recommended by women. So I'm trying to really create this whole resource for women and everything is free, right? So it's just you know, the more people participate in this, the more will grow. And I encourage anyone who's running women friendly tour to join our directory and and also connect with other businesses because that's a part of this, this we have a private Facebook group, we have monthly tour operator calls that have been going on for almost three years now, where we're trying to, you know, we're all lifting each other up. And that's, that's a sub community, a journey woman that didn't exist before at all, that is now 202 operators that are all helping each other, recover from the pandemic. So it's pretty amazing.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 47:53
Yeah. Such a great resource. I when I saw that I was so excited because you know, as being a female traveler, that is something I've looked for, and I brought my business Lotus sojourns to a travel show, and, you know, they had all these boxes that you could check of, you know, are you a cruise company? Are you Safari, are you this? And I reached out to the director, and I'm like, How come you don't have, you know, a women's travel category? Do people want that? Like, yeah, a lot of people do. 50% of people do 80% of people. Travel decisions actually would be like that. And the Well, you're in a corner kind of next to another woman traveling thing, which we were wonderful with by Beth Santos. So that was like, yeah, she's a pretty big woman traveling. I was like, trying not to get on my soapbox. But I said, you really should have at least a box to check. Because I guarantee you there are women travelers here who would love to know that there is travel being created intentionally for them. And that would be a great way for them to be able to find who they can connect with. So I am so excited that there is a resource like this out here. Oh, thank
49:02
you. Yeah, I love it. It's amazing.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:05
Well, as we end, I just have my rapid fire questions. And I am and then we'll be done. So I'm so excited. This was such a great conversation to share with you today.
49:18
Try to don't forget,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:19
I know well, here's the thing. I listen to podcasts. And I actually just listened to the first episode of the season today and I was crying like three times so am I not crying right now. But when I listen back, I'll be with you in that moment. So I appreciate
49:35
those and the journey woman readers know that I tend to do this a lot like whenever I talk about Evelyn and the I mean, you saw when I gave it the word like it's so emotional for me this is not just about this is like, you know, the biggest honor of my life and and so it's not just about a business or a website. This is like oh my god, like it's really it really, really matters.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:58
Yeah, I love that. Not so much. I mean, I get that feeling. And I think that's what really resonated with me when we did meet, it's just like to get to where your soul on your sleeve and work is such the greatest gift and I wish that every person would have that opportunity. Yeah. Okay, so what? What are you reading right now?
50:21
Well, this is my I haven't right here. I'm reading a book by Eliza. She was the first lady of Iceland. She's Canadian. And it's all talking about gender equality in Iceland. So that's when I'm reading at this very moment and actually started it today.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:37
Excellent. That sounds like a great book. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
50:44
I always have a headlamp.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:47
Me too, because you really never know when you need one.
50:50
Yeah. And I also have a doorstop. So people always say why do you need a doorstop? If you're staying in the hotel? Well, I'll tell you, not all hotels have safety bars. And I just do it now as a matter of fact that sometimes they do need a permit. Because I just want that extra sense of safety. So yeah, those are the two things.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 51:09
When I was referring to the packing list that I told you at the beginning of this conversation. That was the thing that I saw there that I had kind of forgotten about, that's such a valuable thing. And I think I actually even had it in my old travel kit. And I was like, Why do I need a doorstop? Uh huh. I remember this was why. So to sojourn means to me to travel somewhere as if you live there to be a guest for a short while. Where's one place? And you said you just returned from Mexico? But where would you love to sojourn?
51:41
I am planning to spend the winter in Spain in a small village. So that will be my next place. And I like to live in places for a long time. So I'm looking to live there for three or four months. As long as you know, these rules will allow though Yeah, northern Spain outside of Barcelona.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 51:59
What is something that you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
52:06
Wow, so much. I think I would say avocados at the moment, because in Mexico and married, they had these massive avocados you could buy at the market for like 10 pesos, you know, that were the best avocados I've ever had. So I really missed those. It's not the same.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 52:26
Yeah, it's not the same, that's for sure. Who was the person that inspired or encouraged you to step out and explore the world?
52:37
Um, that is a great question. I don't think I had any role models growing up that actually encouraged me to travel, my family was very fearful of the world. So it was actually a big shift for me to travel at all. But I think I would say my Nana, because she was a teacher. And she encouraged me to read. And so I am a bookworm, through and through, and, and I think, you know, every time I will come visit her in Toronto, I grew up in Florida and, and every time I would come visit her in Toronto, she would have a new book for me about some part of the world. So she wasn't necessarily, you know, encouraging me to travel, but she was encouraging me to learn and have a different perspective. And, and I'm so grateful for that.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:28
I just did a rapid fire questioning on myself when I just did the intro to the season to see what my answers were because I hadn't really thought about it. And I realized that books were really the inspiration for my traveling as well that I didn't really have a model for me. But it was that curiosity of the world that was sparked through books that made me just kind of want to get out there and really see if it was what it wasn't.
53:55
So yeah, even books like The Paris wife and no, I went on a whole Hemingway all over the world. Now I've been everywhere Hemingway lived. And just because I read Paul McLean's book, The Paris wife, you know, and so yeah, books can just be amazing sources of inspiration.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:14
Yeah. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
54:23
Well, I try not to crack and I would love to travel with Evelyn. She loved Asia. So you know, and that's a place I haven't spent a lot of time and so I wish she was still here. We can do that. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:36
I hope that you'll have I don't want
54:39
to end on a on another tearful note that
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:42
question for you. So we'll come down.
54:46
Emotional today.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:49
Who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space?
54:55
Well, I've already talked about Anna and how incredible I think she is. I think the other woman I've met this year that has really blown me away is Tracy Breeden from the match. And she came from, you know, she was a police officer, she went to Uber, she set up all of their safety protocols, she then went to match as an as improving things there at match and making it safe for women to connect online. And she's also our lead sponsor of our women's travel wisdom retreat that's happening in a month. And, you know, every time I talk to her, I'm just so inspired by her view on the world.
And, you know, the way that she talks about women's rights and human rights, and how you can't be fully safe, and fully have our rights as women without, you know, looking at all the things that are happening in the world and connecting those together. So I'm just in awe of her. I've met her once, and I can't wait to meet her again in a month. And she's going to speak about this more at our event, but man, she is not only kickass, but she's really just got a huge heart. And, and, and I'm so honored that she's supporting my efforts and looking at what she's done for the world. Like with Uber, like, in particular, there's all kinds of safety mechanisms built into Uber apps that she did.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 56:24
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning that too. I think it's so great to learn about especially something like that, where we wouldn't know where those features I saw arise right onto the app, but hadn't really thought about how or who or why they are there. And so it's so great to get to learn about other women that are creating impactful work in this area. I really appreciate your time today. Carolyn, like this has been a real treat. I've been waiting for this conversation. And so I'm so glad that we got to spend the time together. And I hope that my listeners really got to understand, you know, the passion that we see for community and creating spaces for women and, and really feel the authentic love that we have for this space.
57:12
Yeah, well, thank you. And I hope they'll sign up for our newsletters and be an active part, right? We need everyone to be active and participate in all these discussions. So thank you, thank you for giving me space and for inviting me to come on this. I'm so honored.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 57:27
Yeah, thank you. And for those of you listening, just make sure you check the show notes you can find where you can sign up for the newsletter that Carolyn mentioned and learn about the retreats and all the other activities and ways you can be a part of the dream woman community. So thank you,
57:43
Thank you.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 57:58
Thank you for listening to the Soul of Travel. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you love this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe, rate the podcast and share the episodes that inspire you with others. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome.
I am so happy you are here. You can find all the ways you can be a part of the Soul of Travel and Lotus Sojourns Community at www.Lotussojourns.com. Here you can learn more about the Soul of Travel and my guests.
You can see details about the transformational sojourns. I guide women, as well as my book Sojourn which offers an opportunity to explore your heart mind in the world through the pages of books specially selected to create any journey. I'm all about community and would love to connect.
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