Episode 114 - Lena Papadopoulos, Lena Papadopoulos LLC
Travel attracts souls who know that life’s purpose is rarely discovered and nurtured in isolation. It’s meant to be explored and shared with the world – and with the people in it.
Visible and Invisible Aspects of Culture
When we travel, we often come face-to-face with the ways in which our own cultural norms either match or seem at odds with the cultures of other people around the world.
In this week’s episode, Christine and Life Purpose and Leadership Coach Lena Papadopoulos explore the ways in which travel and self-discovery can lead the way to living our life according to our own souls’ purpose. Lena coaches heart-centered, mission-driven visionaries and changemakers to uncover their personal power and honor their unique gifts so they can live their truth, embody their purpose, and make a positive impact in the world.
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase ‘each other’ doesn’t make any sense.”
- Rumi
Defining Culture
With 15 years of experience designing and facilitating intercultural learning, community-building, and leadership development programs, Lena has worked with individuals, schools, non-profits, and social enterprises in 10+ countries. She has won awards for her commitment to personalized experiences and successful efforts in humanizing communities, and she’s been featured by Go Overseas, World Footprints, Huffington Post, Elite Daily, and more. Lena has an M.A. in Cultural Anthropology and a graduate certificate in International Development Studies from the University of Colorado. She also has a B.A. in Sociology and Psychology from Clemson University in South Carolina.
A true student of the world, Lena shares a few definitions of culture that she has come across in her studies of cultural anthropology, international development studies, sociology and psychology, and evolutionary astrology.
Culture is the collective programming of the mind which distinguishes the members of one group from another. (Geert Hofstede)
Culture is we get our sense of identity.
Culture is transmitted from generation to generation.
“Culture hides much more than it reveals, and strangely enough, what it hides, it hides most effectively from its own participants.” (Edward T. Hall)
“Man is an animal suspended in webs of sinigifance he himself has spun. I take culture to be those webs.” (Clifford Geertz)
Lena expands the definition to explain that culture is way we create meaning in the world and learn to relate to ourselves, others, and the world itself. Travel gives us a unique opportunity to investigate culture; when we look at what is underneath the layers of culture, we often find that we look and feel many of the same things without even realizing it.
Part of the reason Lena transitioned from intercultural education to cultural conditioning and coaching is to come alongside people while they explore the space that so many of us are afraid to look into. It’s far simpler to live who we’ve always been, rather than work to find out and live who we truly are, completely separated from who we have learned we are “supposed” to be.
When we travel, we learn and access more about ourselves and others; it’s larger than a set of expectations or stereotypes. It’s about how we connect with others beyond culture.
Finding and Exploring Your Soul’s Purpose
Lena believes that we all have a shared core purpose: to return to the truth of who we are.
This truth dictates that we are loved, that we are divine love, and that through the expression and experience of this love, our truest self-expression is to embrace and embody that truth. Simply by being who we are, we serve the collective.
This philosophy extends an invitation to each of us: Where can we open our hearts and minds to the truth of our own soul’s purpose? Where are we living in alignment with that purpose, and where can we adjust our habits, our mindset, or our vocation to come closer to it?
Lena and Christine also express that what the embodiment of your soul’s purpose looks like will likely change throughout your life. As you grow, you uncover deeper and deeper layers of the reasons you are here. Lena employs evolutionary astrology to help people discover the direction of their soul – where it’s been and where it’s going – and exploring why the experiences in our life are manifested the way they are.
“Right Now” Purpose
Western culture has conditioned many women to see success as an external measure of how hard they work, or what they have achieved. But there are so many changemakers and visionaries who have tried finding their own path within the blueprint we’ve been given, and it simply doesn’t lead where we’re meant to be.
Late-stage career transitions, the wanderlust of travel, and entrepreneurship are only a few examples of how women are taking the opportunity to challenge our cultural conditioning and create something more aligned with the deeper, sometimes hidden, parts of ourselves.
“Our soul’s purpose is to navigate these particular lessons that our soul has chosen to learn in this lifetime, which are all designed to bring us closer to the core of who we are, the truth of who we are.””
Soul of Travel Episode 114 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Lena discuss:
Definitions of culture and how they apply to both travel and life
Growing up between cultures
Cultural conditioning and internalized culture and norms
How astrology can help us see ourselves and help us find our purpose
Accessing and noticing shifts in your “right-now” purpose
Behind-the-curtain look at some of the things Christine loves and how they align with her birth chart and soul purpose
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Lena Papadopoulos.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Lena’s work helping visionaries and changemakers to embody their power and purpose, visit https://www.lenapapadopoulos.com.
Follow Lena on your favorite social media network!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-papadopoulos/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lena_papadopoulos/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lena.papadopoulos.3/
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Lena Papadopoulos (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
Join me for my Women’s Wilderness and Yoga Retreat in Alaska in March 2023!
Join me as we disconnect off-grid 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle. We’ll stay at Arctic Hive, a beautifully appointed retreat space owned by my friend Mollie Busby and her husband, Sean. This boutique property nestled into the Brooks Range offers cozy cabins hand-built by our hosts. We’ll practice yoga in their yoga dome, lovingly referred to as The Hive, with gorgeous views of the surrounding landscape.
We’ll explore the wilderness with Molly and her dogs by snowshoeing and dogsled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, and enjoy a serene daily yoga practice and vegan meals – all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful Northern Lights that like to show off their magic this time of year.
I have only six spaces for this unique adventure, and a few are already taken. Hop over to the Lotus Sojourns website to book your spot today.
Know someone who would love this restorative adventure? Please share this experience with them!
To learn more about Alaska, listen to my Soul of Travel conversation, Episode 67 with Mollie Busby.
Visit www.lotussojourns.com/journeys to join this unique travel experience today.
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of 2022’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
Soul of Travel Episode 114 Transcript
Keywords: Women’s travel, soul’s purpose, leadership coach, life purpose coach, heart-centered, personal power, empowerment
Christine: Lena Papadopoulos is a life purpose and leadership coach. She helps heart-centered, mission-driven visionaries, uncover their personal power and honor their unique gifts so they can live their truth, embody their purpose, and make a positive impact on the world. With 15 years of experience designing and facilitating intercultural learning, community building and leadership development programs, Lena has worked with individuals, schools, nonprofits, and social enterprises in over 10 countries. She has won awards for a commitment to personalized experiences and successful efforts in humanizing communities. And she's been featured by Go Overseas World, footprints, Huffington Post Elite, daily and more. In our conversation, Lena and I discussed the definitions of culture and how they apply to both our travels and our lives. We moved into discussing cultural conditioning and how we internalize our culture. Then we dive into purpose and she shares her purpose paradigm, framework, and how you may see shifts in your right now purpose, but it is always in alignment with your soul purpose.
We talk about her passion for astrology, and she brings a bit of my own natal chart into the conversation, which was really fun for me. You'll get a behind the curtain look at some of the things that I love and how they are an extension of my birth chart and soul purpose. This was such a fun one. Do you love these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation via PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Lena Papadopoulos.
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Um, this is my first of the new year, so I feel like I'm really excited to get back in the swing of conversations and so excited today to be joined by Linda Papadopoulos, who is a life life's purpose and leadership coach. And, um, have been really anxiously awaiting this conversation for, um, a really long time. I heard her speaking on a friend's podcast. We were just talking about this before jumping on, and I immediately knew I wanted to bring that thread of conversation into the podcast. So, um, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. I'm looking forward to it. <laugh>. Yeah, and I, uh, for listeners, uh, you will never, I guess you'll never know if you're watching YouTube, I wrote a lot of notes to keep myself on track because in our prior conversation we have so many common interests and a lot of them allow me to really get out there and start thinking and shoot from subject to subject.
So I'm gonna try to keep myself a little bit on track, but we'll see how that goes. Also, the magic will be, and wherever we wander, I am sure. So, um, yeah, so in this conversation, one of the things that really caught my eye when I first heard you speak at a different few different places was that I felt like my way of seeing and understanding the world was a little bit related to how I heard you speak about travel, work and life. And so it really resonated kind of at a deeper level. And I also have a degree in sociology. And prior to that, in my educational journey, which was very winding and is a long story, I felt very kind of lost. Like I was a really good student, but something never kept was not clicking. And when I first sat in my first sociology class, which was like as a later in life student attempting college again, I just almost came to tears because I really understood how I was processing the world around me.
And it was such a revelation. Um, and I had always been curious about culture and kind of people, but I would find myself asking why in a way that people didn't understand what I was asking them. <laugh>. Like, I remember asking my dad what's in a dollar? And he's like, well, a dime in a quarter and a nickel. And I'm like, no, that's not what I mean. And still now I don't really understand what I was asking him, but I always wanted this broader understanding of how things fit together and then how that impacted like individuals and the collective. And now as I've aged, I also am kind of trying to see how that impacts me and then how I engage with the world. So I feel like all of the things that you talk about are all of those parts and pieces. So I'm so excited to just navigate all of this with you. Um, but before we get started, Lena, I would love to just understand how travel first started to show up in your life, and then how that has begun to shape who you are today.
Lena: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, well I, I grew up traveling with my family. I am, I grew up in the United States, but I am Greek and all of my family, aside from my parents, they live in Greece. So we would go there every year for a couple of months, or we would take trips kind of like in tandem with those trips. S I grew up traveling, but I think it was really, well, one, it was kind of like existing in between cultures. I did always feel like I don't really belong anywhere. And I think that spurred a desire to find where do I belong and where do I fit in. Um, and then when I was in university, I got really connected to the international student community and I was very, very involved with that. Um, which kind of shifted my trajectory because I was studying sociology and psychology.
I wanted to be a therapist, but I had like a lot of fears wrapped around that, and so I just let this international community sort of like become my life and my path. And when I graduated, I decided that I wanted to get a master's in anthropology to study culture more rather than getting an MSW. So, that's what I did. And it was interesting because at that point, by the time I entered grad school, I'd already lived in a few different countries. And so, um, it really put kind of a lot of like theoretical, I don't know, context to my lived experience, which was, which was really interesting. Um, and yeah, I don't know. I've just always loved learning about different perspectives and ways of viewing the world. And you know, one of my favorite quotes is like, um, out beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing, there is a field I'll meet you there. And this idea of like, how can we find the common ground between all these different perspectives and worldviews? And I just, I really love that. And so yeah, <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah, I, I feel like I can see the like younger versions of ourselves both like marching around looking for the same types of answers. Like there's just something, uh, I don't know, it's just, it's so interesting cuz it's like I don't wanna just accept what I see. Like I feel things and that's where I'm really coming from is to understand. Yeah. I still feel, I can't figure out what that why is that, I'm trying to figure out someday maybe I'll understand what that is. But it feels just, um, really entrenched in what you were saying, like what is beyond this thing that we see in front of us and, and how does that work together? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the other thing that really resonated was you saying that you, you know, growing up traveling between Greece and the US and being, living the experience in both places and how that shaped your identity, but then not really knowing where you belong because you had these two separate places.
Um, I grew up on a, um, indigenous on a reservation in the, in the United States and Montana. And I have family that is indigenous, but like it was never acknowledged in my family or it was even shunned within my immediate family. And so I had that same kind of sense of like, wait, this isn't me, but this isn't me and I can't fit in this box and I can't fit in this box. Who am I <laugh>? And so I think I also started looking at all these other cultures and like kind of matching myself up to them and contrasting and then also wondering like, if I can't fit here and here, can I fit anywhere or could I belong everywhere? So it also becomes this huge, like very far reaching quest. Um, but I love that because I think that you and I both use travel and some other tools as this like external exploration and understanding the world and our place in it.
Um, so I would love to kind of start this conversation by understanding, um, a little bit about culture and, um, I love, uh, etymology and understanding words and picking them apart and then trying to see like historically what they meant and what they mean now. But, uh, that's a side note. But as far as culture for me, and especially in the context of travel, I feel like when people say the word culture, they are talking about, um, arts, customs, social institutions, the things that we experience as culture. Um, and then when I was thinking about, especially from a sociological perspective, I started to think about how those elements kind of lay down on top of us, and that's how we see the world, which becomes our cultural conditioning, I think in a way. Um, but I would love for you to just talk about a little bit about what culture means to you. I know that you were really initially drawn into, um, intercultural education, but now you're kind of more in this space of the con cultural conditioning. So I'd like to just hear what that journey has looked like and that understanding of culture has been for you.
Lena: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, yeah, so I think kind of the things that you listed off in at first are these very like tangible, visible aspects of culture that a lot of, I'm sorry, I have this like <laugh> like frog in my throat, but, um, there are these, yeah, like what we would consider these visible aspects of culture, but there's like so much more to it than that, right? Like, because what culture really is, is the, the driver of why we do the things we do, why we believe the things we believe, why we wear the clothes we wear, eat the foods we eat. Um, and I actually, when just before we got on, and you mentioned this, I pulled up a few of my favorite definitions, <laugh>, um, culture to share. Um, one by a sociologist geared hde is that culture is the collective programming of the mind, which distinguishes the members of one group from another.
It is based on another definition, like where we get our sense of identity. It is transmitted from generation to generation, right? So it is something that we very much inherit our cultural perspective in worldview. Um, and then a couple of my favorites, one is from Edward T. Hall, like culture hides more than it reveals, and strangely enough, when it hides, it hides most effectively from its own participants. And then the other by Clifford Guzman is, an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun. I take culture to be those webs. Um, so it's very much right, like the way in which we create meaning in the world, and it's how we learn to relate to, I don't know, to different people, to institutions, to, um, people that are like us, people that are unlike us. Um, and yeah, it's just such a right.
It really colors the perspective with which we, which with, with which we see the world. Um, and what I loved about working in intercultural education is that when you look at kind of what's under all of that, we are all so connected, right? And we're all actually <laugh> thinking and feeling the same things. Um, but we're very much kind of confined in a lot of ways by culture and our conditioning. Um, and part of the reason I transitioned into the work that I do now is because what I saw is that most people like their greatest fear is to live their truth and is to express the truth of who they are. And the main thing that creates or sort of like, I don't know if I how to say it, but yeah, just, just strengthens this fear is culture, is the conditioning around. Like, who are you supposed to be in and what are you supposed to want and how are you supposed to behave? Um, and so yeah, it is, it's like this v really beautiful that allows us to understand things in a nuanced way if we choose to. Um, but it's also something I think that imprisons people in so many ways as well. Um, yeah.
Christine: I I think that's so interesting when you look at that because it's again, kind of like moving, moving from this broad definition and understanding and bringing it really down to self, which I think when people maybe first start traveling, they are curious about cultures or maybe they want to experience cuisine or art or something. And so that's kind of this broad experience, but then there's another sect of travelers that are, are wanting to use that to understand themselves. And so then they're kind of moving into that aspect of how culture becomes identity, and then you all of a sudden become completely self exploring the world. And so it's, it's a really interesting parallel between, you know, culture and travel and inner exploration. Like I think it just funnels right into one another if you stay in the swirl of it long enough, like you'll get to this other side of, of seeing culture.
And, um, also, like you said, understanding ourself is so important so that we can start to see that conditioning and then also kind of, I think, respect what we're witnessing as a traveler even more once you see that, that it is larger than just this kind of superficial culture. Like it is really embedded in who we are. And then if you're trying to talk about breaking free from your cultural conditioning and starting to be your true self, what does that mean to this vast understanding of culture? Because then, and I found this I think really in my own experience with wanting to embrace what does it mean to be, um, a Native American? What does that look like? Can I even embrace that? Do I have permission? And then I really realize, like what I was saying is this part of me feels really true, but my cultural conditioning says it's not.
And so, you know, then you are really seeing how these two things start to be connected in such a deep way. And I think on the surface, a lot of people try to link travel and inner journey or understanding self, and they seem not together, but once you really start to explore, they are intersected in the way that culture and cultural conditioning and self are. Um, I don't, I'm hoping that this is sparking some thought for people listening because I feel like, um, it's such a deep space to start playing in, but I don't know, what are you, what are your thoughts around some of that?
Lena: Yeah, well, like what, as you were speaking, I was thinking about one of the definitions I shared, which is that, um, what culture hides it hides most effectively from its own participants. So it's like when I would work with groups of people from other cultures and they would come to the US where at the time I was facilitating some cross-cultural exchange programs, you know, it's like they would engage and interact with our students and the questions that they would ask each other all the time were like, well, why do you do this and why do you do this? And everybody's like, well, I don't, I don't know why we do that. And it's because it's so normalized. Whatever it is that you believe or practice or your perspective, um, to you, it's just that's the way it is. So you don't question it. But when you travel and when you enter a different world and way of being and engaging, um, with people and, and the world at large, that's when you really start to question everything that up until then for you has been normal.
And then you start to say, well, maybe it's not so normal and maybe there are other ways of being or doing or existing in the world. Um, and so I think that's, that's one of the biggest reasons why travel is such a powerful tool, um, for inner exploration is because it really does and not for everybody. I think it is a choice because some people travel the whole world over and never question anything, and then they just stay completely right in, in the mindset that they had before they left. But, um, if you use it as an opportunity to question things, then I think it allows, it allows you to be more in tune and connected with who am I outside of this construct, you know?
Christine: Yeah. It's, it's really valuable. And also kind of the, the sa the quote that you said before, like meeting in the field beyond the, the, this other truth is I think then you are able to say like, oh, this is this thing and this is this thing, but also neither of them are true mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then you can start to create your own reality. And I was even thinking, this is so superficial and silly, but my daughter recently discovered like curling your eyelashes. And she said like, oh, mine are so straight, not the way they should be. And I was like, well, who told you like the way your eyelashes should be? And, and so then I was like, it, they are how they are. And, and where you are depending on your, you know, cultural norm was telling you if it sh how it should be one way.
Anyway, it's a super simple example, but I was just thinking like, it, it's so, so embedded. And again, like you said, we're just, we don't see all the things that happen on a really regular basis about how we, how we show up and who we become based on the things that surround us. Um, I, the other thing that I love that you, uh, are talking about, and I think this is something that people kind of get to as they're in this journey, is thinking about purpose. And, um, one of the things that I really love about soul of travel conversations is that I feel like most of my guests, if not all of my guests, are kind of bringing what is from within them outward through their work. And so it's really a true expression of themselves, and that really is what soul of Travel comes from.
Like this is people who have maybe heard that truth when within themselves and are able to express it through their work and bring their mission to life. Um, and you know, that's always on a spectrum. Like I think we understand a part of ourselves and we grow, and then we have to do this all over again, <laugh>. Um, but I think that understanding purpose is so important. And so I would love to talk to you a little bit about that. And one of the questions I think when we step into this realm is do we even believe that every person has a sole purpose? So I'd love for you to maybe answer that gargantuan question <laugh>, and then like help us to understand the different shapes that that purpose takes over our life. I know that you have kind of a framework for understanding purpose, so let's, I guess jump into the purpose pool
Lena: <laugh>. Yes. Um, so you're right, I have this kind of framework that it's just really the result of, of talking to a lot of people about purpose and, and approaching purpose from different perspectives and lenses and kind of my own right perspective based on all of that. But with that, it's like I believe we all have our core purpose at, at our core. All of us are here to return to the truth of who we are. That's like literally why we exist <laugh>, um, is to remember that one, that we are love, we are divine love. And then through that, like our truest self-expression, our true core purpose is to embrace and embody that. Um, and then our sort of soul's purpose is really like, again, I mean, it depends right on your worldview and perspective. So I come from the perspective that we are reincarnating, that we have lived past lives, that we are here with like lessons to learn.
And so our soul's purpose is to navigate these particular lessons that our soul has chosen to learn in this lifetime, which are all designed to bring us closer to the core of who we are, the truth of who we are. Um, and then with that, we just, by being who we are, we serve the collective. And that is like our life's purpose. Our life's purpose is to share our magic as medicine with other people. Um, and then how that looks is going to change over the course of our lives, um, depending on where we are, are what lessons we've learned, what wisdom we've gained, um, what experiences we've had. So, you know, I, when I was an intercultural educator, and now that I'm a life purpose and leadership coach, I believe my purpose was the same, but it ha is manifesting differently, right? It looks, it looks different, um, but it hasn't really changed. Um, I'm just doing it in a different way. So yeah, I believe we all have a purpose. We're all here for a reason, um, which is really just to honor and help and serve each other through our unique self-expression. Mm-hmm.
Christine: Hmm, <affirmative>. Um, it's so good. And I love like having this conversation now as opposed to, I was even thinking like five years ago, and I would've just been like in such a different space to have the conversation. And so, um, for people listening, I just would love to honor that growth journey and that for some people this is gonna be like, yes. And for some people it's gonna be like, what are you talking about? And both reactions are, are true again, like there is no true. And, and it's just where you are at on this journey. And, um, I was even thinking about that in the context of my birth chart and needle chart, which is something I'd love to bring into this conversation as well, which is another tool for kind of maybe understanding purpose in a way that feels a little more tangible.
Although I guess that's also relative because some people would say, what are you talking about? For me? I'm like, ah, this feels very like something I can put in my pocket. Um, but I did this five years ago and I was thinking about how I could only hear and understand what I was ready to hear and understand, and, and if I go back and hear the same thing, I'm gonna hear something else because I've grown in my understanding of myself and of the world and my identity and all these different pieces. Um, but what I loved so much about the birth chart in the context of understanding my purpose, which was where I really was at that point, was trying to be like, what on earth am I doing? Like I'd had all these shifts in my life, and I was like, I need to have something that tells me what I'm doing because I feel like I'm floundering and I just need an answer.
And when I had my natal chart read, I was like, oh my gosh. Like there I am <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like it's literally written in the stars mm-hmm. <affirmative> and <laugh>. And I was at this point where there were like parts of me that felt true, but also I think bumped up against my cultural conditioning. So I was really trying to repress them or just be like, no, that's not right, that's not me. Um, but when I just saw it like written there, I was able to go, oh, that is me. Like, I have permission to be that part of myself. Um, so I would really like to, I guess move into, into this how do, how can we use astrology as a way to really start to see ourselves and then kind of work from there towards purpose and then towards how we put that out into the world through our business or our way of being. Mm-hmm.
Lena:
<affirmative>. Yeah. So I mean, I love astrology because I feel like it brings all of these things I've been talking about together mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and you know, your natal chart is like the, the blueprint to your soul. And so it shows you who, like, who is the truth of who you are outside of your conditioning? Who are you at your core? But then it also shows you what is the conditioning that has kept you from being and expressing the truth of who you are. Um, so I use the chart like I read through the lens of evolutionary astrology, which is really looking at what is the soul's purpose? Why did you reincarnate in this lifetime? What lessons are you trying to learn? What direction is your soul moving toward and what direction is it coming from? So we look a lot at like past life patterns and trauma signatures in the chart that, that are playing out through your conditioning because they are challenges and lessons your soul is trying to navigate and overcome in order to return to that core truth of who you are.
Um, and so yeah, <laugh>, the chart is so powerful. I, I love it. And you know, so many people are like, oh yeah, my sun sign is this, but I don't really resonate. Or like, it's so broad in general and vague. And it's like, well, yeah, because that is such a tiny, tiny piece. Like there's this really like complex and interconnected picture that you don't see just by knowing your son's son, right? There's so much to look at in a chart, and there's so many specializations within astrology. Like, I mean, you can go to an astrologer just to learn about medical astrology, like what your chart has to say about your body. And you know, that's something I don't know much about, but it's like there's so much in there. Um, yeah. I love it. Yeah,
Christine: <laugh>, I would really encourage people if they haven't done it even to, just to get a sense of like what you're saying of the, the vastness of information is to pull their birth chart, which there's free apps that you can do that in. And I don't know if you,
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Christine: Have one that you would wanna recommend, but you just see it and you're like, I mean, you will never understand it if you don't know what, what you're looking at, but you're like, oh, I get it. It's kind of like when you were talking, I was thinking about baking. Like, if you know what a cup is for, to measure in baking, like, great, but you can't make anything if you only know what a measuring cup is for. Like, there's all these other things within the realm of baking before you're going to get anything on the other side of that. Um, and so I was thinking that, you know, that was kind of how I could maybe understand what we know about astrology in a common way, which like you said is the sunshine, which for me, luckily, or I don't know, luckily, like mine is Pisces and what I ever read about felt very true to me. Like I would read it and I would be like, oh, but also it would feel kind of like the deepest parts of me and also kind of the parts I would protect of myself. Like the parts I didn't want anyone to know about me were my Pisces parts that I was like, those are kind of sacred and I don't know that I want those to be like on my sleeve. <laugh>. And then,
Lena: Sorry,
Christine: Go ahead. No, I was gonna say then as I learned like about moon sign and rising signs, I was like, oh, I see why, like, those are my parts. Because like you said, most people would say, oh, I'm a this, but it doesn't mean anything to me. But because, and you can speak to this if you'd like, but like, that's not what's presenting to the world, or those are the parts of you that are like your deepest parts. And then trying to understand how those manifested in my business and then even eventually understanding how I travel because of, of who I truly am, I just find it so interesting. But go ahead and, and interject <laugh>.
Lena: Well, what I wanted to say was that it's interesting what you say about Pisces because yes, you have a Pisces Sun, but you also have your Neptune, which is the planet that has like Piscean energy. The planet of Neptune is in the 12th house, which is the house connected to Pisces. And the 12th house is also the most hidden house of the chart. Like, that's the part of you that the fewest people see, or that you let the fewest people see. Um, so yeah, it's very interesting that you said that <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. So ding, ding, ding. Like, for people, if you're wanting to understand and validate things, it's so funny. Like it's not funny. It just happens like that all the time. And I just, again, kind of like sitting in that sociology class the first time and like starting to see how I see the world when I had that first chart. And like I said, how empowering it was was like, this is you and this is how you do this thing, and this is how you have to like, navigate and overcome this thing. Like, it's just such a play by play for who you, who you are. And it's, it's so uncanny. Like it feels a little weird at first because someone can see you in a way that maybe you haven't allowed someone to see you before. And so for me at this point, I get really excited about that cuz there's now a part of me that's like, I want you to see that, because now that feels like my most valuable asset and I don't want it hidden as much, which I'm sure that's somewhere in the chart as well. Um, but uh, yeah, I just think that it, it's such an interesting journey to be able to understand yourself through that way. Um, when you're working with clients and you use this tool, how does that start to show up in understanding their purpose and then under in understanding what their, like, what their, I can't remember what it is right now. Purpose mm-hmm. <affirmative>, yeah. Right now. Purpose. That's it. I remembered the right thing. <laugh> and then, and how that kind of moves into their life purpose. Like how do you use that?
Lena: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I, well, as you were speaking, like a specific person, an example came, came to my mind, so I'll just share from that. Um, so for example, I, I had a client that really hid her softer, more vulnerable, more feminine, more caretaking kind of side. Um, it was something she very much rejected all of her life. She tried to be very, like, I'm strong, I'm independent. I am the boss. I tell people what to do. Like, it was just this very, like this energy that she felt she had to project into the world. And when we started looking at her chart, I was like, I mean, the biggest part of your purpose is like, to to be more feminine. Like, to embrace the feminine side of you and to embrace like, I wanna be a caretaker and a nurturer. And, um, you know, like it's, it was so obvious and she was just like, Hmm.
Like I know that deep inside I know that, and that's why I project this other part because I'm, I'm so scared of that part of myself, right? Like to really to be that. And of course like we could see in the chart even there were so many things connected to her family of origin that had created that con the conditioning around that. Um, and as she stepped more into that part of herself and practiced embracing those qualities, then this other dream that she had that she'd also kept kind of like pushed down, started to come out. And that was a dream, which ironically was very connected to the energy of, of Venus in her chart, but which is around, you know, beauty and aesthetics and expressing yourself in a more visual way. I mean, Venus has a lot to do with a lot of things, but that's part of it.
Um, and this dream that she had was that she wanted to be, um, like a stylist for people. She wanted people to feel good about the way they looked and to feel good about themselves because of how they looked and how they dressed and styled themselves. And so it was like she yeah, was just these parts of herself that she had very much denied or disowned or rejected. Um, we could see that in the chart and it felt true to her, right? Like deep within her, when we spoke about it, it wasn't something like, oh, that doesn't resonate with me. She, she had known those things but hadn't wanted to really admit them. Um, and yeah, now she's like, I feel so amazing that I, that I am expressing this part of myself. She started a business where she is helping people express themselves through, um Right, how they dress, how they look. And so she's very much, yeah, she's very much now living, I mean, of course with challenges, it's not like it's, I don't know, it's always gonna have challenge there, but she's very much living her sole purpose and her life right now purpose, you know? Um, so yeah, I love that. I don't know. I don't know <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah, no, I think it's great. And I also, I think like some of the things that I've talked about too is if you look at the journey of many of the women that have been on my podcast that have left like corporate tr you know, corporate life on, you know, really like nine to five grind, and you know, this, the, the way that our culture has conditioned us to perceive success by, you know, getting your degree and your higher education and, you know, earning six figures and buying a house or, you know, all these levels of success that we can see externally. And then people start kind of crashing up against that. And I think that's because it doesn't align with their true purpose. For some people it does, because that's very much meant to be how they're to serve the collective. But for the people that have just tried to find that path, because it was the thing that the br blueprint they were given originally from our culture, um, then they, when you like let go of that, you're in a lot of turmoil, but then if you can find this purpose and understand it, um, whether that's being lucky to work with someone like you or on your own, if you've walked that journey, um, and then whatever you create how you're showing up in that, that more authentic space serves in such a much more powerful way, regardless of what it is.
And then I think what we have to do as a people living in the US or in a western culture, then we're, we're going up against the conditioning. Let's, in the example you said, like as a stylist, she maybe has to say like, uh, you know, I, I'm not showing, I, I I'm having a hard time putting words, but like in our culture, we may be really value lawyer, doctor, c e o executive. And then you have to say with your full self, I am a stylist and I am deeply passionate about it and I serve others through doing it. And our, our cultural conditioning goes, well, <laugh>. But we have to be able to stand in that. And even, you know, as, um, someone who creates the trips that I create and really my, my purpose that I understand is to allow women to fully express themselves and to live also their truth.
Which is funny because you say like, that is our, all of our purpose <laugh>. And I think I just want to see women do that, but I do that through guiding them on these journeys. Um, but if I say that's what I do, people are like, what? And if I say I run a travel company, they're like, okay. And even like, I'm kind of like a travel agent, but not, then they go, okay, good. I know where to put you. So we're kind of circling back to cultural conditioning and how if our purpose doesn't kind of stack up to some level of success, it, it's really hard to step into it, I guess. So we have to shed that cultural conditioning to be ourself, but, but that magic that you're putting out into the world once you do is so, so great regard regardless of what your magic is.
So like, if your magic is a baker or your, your magic is a gardener, or your magic is a lawyer, like that I think is so important. And it's just not something I don't think, I don't think it's something we're taught in our culture. And you and I were talking about this before that I, I went to Guatemala and um, uh, participated in a nael ceremony, which is the, the Mayan version of astrology and understanding your life purpose through the, the day that you're born as well. And they're like, this is the thing you were due, this is the day you entered the portal to this planet, and it ca comes with this mission <laugh>. And they're like, here's your answer. Like, you don't even have to look like you're not supposed to be this, you're, you're this, you just are, this is how you chose to be here.
Um, and when he read that to me or through the translator, they read that to me, I was just like, oh gosh, it makes so much sense and this is where I can add my magic. And I just wonder for me maybe coming back to that greater why <laugh> as a little girl, like if we didn't all embrace that, what would the world look like without these constraints of cultural conditioning and really being true expressions of self? And I just went all over the place. But where does the <laugh>, well, you know, how does that resonate or what, what knowledge do you have to offer <laugh> based on that rambling <laugh>?
Lena: Um, well, I'm curious, what did, what did they say at the ceremony? Can you share?
Christine: Yeah, he, what they said that, that he saw me as a leader of women, um, helping them to explore and to guide them on a, a spiritual journey, but also to help them understand the world around them. And he said, like, I see you like leading women in some way to, to explore things. And I was like, huh, that sounds, that's crazy <laugh>. Because in the, to the best of my knowledge, he had no clue who I was from, from anyone. Um, and I hadn't shared anything at that point. And so it was just very interesting that it was so specific to like the thing I felt inside of, of really helping women to see that, or to feel that. And, um, you know, it wasn't like you should do X, y, z, it wasn't just like a, an an exact map, but it felt true to like this thing inside of me,
Lena: Right? Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
Lena: You, you have like so many, hmm, I don't know. Yeah. Like so many placements in your chart in the 11th house of community and groups and um, yeah, just like understanding yourself through other people, but also serving in community. Like you are bringing in this life, your past life, like gifts and skills, like you're very much bringing that into, um, into the communities that you're in and a part of and that's also connected, yeah. Like to your career, it's com connected to your emotional sense of fulfillment. It's connected to part of your purpose, which is, which is to connect to the non-material world more than the material world. Like you have a lot of past life sort of experience, I guess being like very practical and grounded and stable and like having strong foundations, um, in the material world. And like in this, in this life, you are really, there's a transformation happening through your connection to community that helps you connect to the more non-material spiritual side of yourself as well. Um, but there's also a lot of past life trauma around that too. So it could create some conflicting feelings possibly, but
Christine: <laugh> yeah, and for those of you listening, I, I was able to send Lena my, my chart information. So she looked at it a little bit cuz I was really curious to just see and to share how it's, how this is expressing itself in my life and to also, you know, kind of let some of you see behind the curtain about how, how this works or how you can use this to interpret, um, what your purpose is and, and just really see the knowledge that this offers. So if you're listening and you're curious, um, definitely reach out to her and, um, at the end we'll share how you can work with her to, to find more about your own journey. But yeah, I, and it's, for me, it's always so interesting cuz like when you say that I, I like can feel the thing you're talking about, I don't know what it is, but like I feel the truth of what that is.
And I just think that's such an interesting thing too because again, we're, I don't think we're really taught to wander through this much in our culture. And I do think in other cultures it is a little still more of a part of their way of understanding who they are, um, in different, in different ways. Um, and so I think that's also what really drew me to travel. Like I found myself really leaning into wanting to understand and connect with indigenous communities around the world. And I think part of that, going back to the beginning was my sense of isolation from that part of myself growing up, but also I felt like something deeper in that there was a way of understanding the universe that I didn't have access to, but I saw those communities as access points. And so I was really drawn to that.
And so I, i I don't know how as travelers even, or as people engaging with the world, do you see someone's natal chart showing how they're going to seek that information. We were also talking about this, uh, um, before this conversation, like the link between travel and soul searching and like spark of wanderlust and there seems to be like entrepreneurs and travelers and creatives have this thing that like asks them to search <laugh>. And I'm just wondering like, is it literally part of what is written in who they are and then does that have you going out in search of answers in a way that reflects your natal chart or, you know, something greater than ourselves?
Lena: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah, I think it's really the, the chart holds kind of like a range of possibilities, I guess I would say of, of how something will manifest. So it's not necessarily that it says like this is exactly how this looks and how it will happen, but it, it's like there's kind of this range of possibilities and the more that, you know, it is helpful to know about a person's lived experiences because that makes the possibilities kind of come to life and connect in a way where you're like, okay, I can, I can see how this is actually playing out. And, and also just to see how all the things are interconnected and interrelated. But you know, like you can very much clearly see like what is the soul wanting to, wanting to do? Um, but then the way in which it does that, it can depend on a lot of different factors. Um, but you know, like for example, another thing I can see here is that in your chart, I don't know if you want me to share my screen or not.
Christine: No, it's okay. <laugh>
Lena: Um, <laugh>. But it's like there's this, um, these past life patterns of feeling incredibly judged by society of like not fitting in and not being who you're supposed to be. And your greatest co sort of like power and potential in this life is found in you understanding what that looks like for you independent of anybody else's opinion, right? It's very much about, like, I, I decide from within, um, what is right and true for me and what's I'm supposed to do, not what I'm told to do. Um, and there's very much this like energy of independence and leadership and taking charge and being courageous and just like going out into the world and doing the things. Like that's part of how you, um, I guess actualize that power and potential within you. Um, and it could, right? Like again, this is how, this is why we, we would speak in a consultation, so we would have dialogue right, about what this has looked like in your lived experience, but based on these placements it could mean, um, either like separating from your family of origin or deciding that you don't want a family of your own, that you would prefer to be more independent and on your own and doing your own thing.
Um, and really like also kind of maybe detaching from any desire to, to people please or like to serve others in order to be seen as like good or right or as you're supposed to be. Um, so yeah, like you're just really learning to like forge your own your own path. Um, but what that looks like kind of depends Yeah. On, on experiences that you've had.
Christine: Yeah, I think that's so interesting too because I feel like that's the thing I most want to like show other people how to do and it's the thing that I'm learning. And I think another thing that you and I talked about is like the thing that you most fear and resist is the thing you most need to lean into. Um, and I I also think like the thing that you are constantly drawn to is you might be drawn to it for yourself, like you think you're being drawn to it for others over and over again, but really it's because it's yours, <laugh>. Um, and I just think that's really interesting too. And, and I, I see that often in other people's businesses, especially entrepreneurs. Like I think we have this thing that we are working through or growing through and it ends up manifesting itself in its work in our work.
And then, you know, five years later that thing's gone cuz we've gone through that and now we're ready to do the next thing. And so like we end up taking people along on our growth journey through our entrepreneurial journey because we're just navigating those things and progressing and, um, I I just think that that is a really interesting, interesting to witness in others. And even today I just saw a girlfriend post kind of like the next version of her business and I can see like how she grew to that space. Um, and I'm like, oh, that's so cool. Like, I'm so excited to see that you're now there and you're able to, and I, and I also feel like I can see that being like one step closer to that truest part of her that I kind of see within her. Um, I don't know. So it's really for me, I love stepping into the space, but, um, well before we end this conversation, for those listening who would love to learn more about how to put this in practice in their own lives, how can they connect with you to, to to learn about what their path is and their purpose is?
Lena: Um, yeah. Well my website I guess, um, is a good place to learn more about the offerings, which is just my name, lena papadopoulos.com. The challenge is spelling, but I know you'll provide it. Um, and then my Instagram, uh, which is the same my name. Um, but yeah, and I I have a way to contact me by email in both of those places, so mm-hmm.
Christine: <affirmative>. Excellent. Well, I would really encourage anybody who is like filling something through this conversation to just lean into that. And, um, I, I just think that our, our purpose and understanding who we are and whatever tool you use to do that is such an important part of, like you said, of why we're here. And, um, for me that is travel in like so many different ways and understanding culture and who I am. And so I really appreciate you playing in this realm of conversation with me today. And I hope that, um, people listening also, you know, really have their curiosities peaked and can ask some new questions. Um, but the last thing before we go is, uh, I have a series of rapid fire ish questions for people to get to know you a little bit more as a traveler. So <laugh> we'll, we'll end with those <laugh>. Um, okay. So what are you reading right now?
Lena: Uh, I'm reading, I'm rereading a book called Healing the Soul, which is looking at the chart through the lens of evolutionary astrology, but in a therapeutic way, like in a therapy based way. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> <laugh>.
Christine: Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Lena: Um, a shower caddy. You know, like the things that you hang on the hook or on your toiletries are <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. And we didn't even really get to talk, uh, that much about, about traveling, but Lena is a, is always traveling. She is a traveler in the truest sense of the world word, the world in the truest sense of the world. I love that Miss Misspoken, <laugh> <laugh>, um, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you lived there for a short period of time. Um, I know you've had the opportunity to do this often, but where is a place that you would love to sojourn?
Lena: Mm. Like that I haven't been.
Christine: Yeah.
Lena: Um, oh my God. <laugh> so many. But Japan is one of the first that comes to mind.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?
Lena: Um, um, Cal soy
Christine: <laugh>. And what is that? <laugh>?
Lena: Oh my god. It's a, it's a curry from northern Thailand.
Christine: Oh, okay. Well and I have spent a lot of time in Thailand and I didn't know it.
Christine: <laugh>, uh, who is a person that inspired and encouraged you to set up and explore the world?
Lena: Hmm. A friend of mine named Nigel. Yeah.
Christine: Uh, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past two, would it be?
Lena: Mm, I don't know. Like Brene Brown and Carl Jung came to my mind, <laugh> like those two people
Christine: <laugh>. Perfect. Um, when you go with Brene, please invite me <laugh>
Lena: <laugh>
Christine: Because I just wanna sit somewhere and have conversations. <laugh>. Yeah. Um, yeah, we'll be so great. Uh, who is one woman in the travel industry that you admire and would love to recognize in this space or even in the realm of uh, uh, growth and journeys as well. I know you're not exactly in the travel space, but you are a traveler.
Lena: Oh my gosh, I dunno. <laugh> <laugh>.
Christine: If you think of someone you can share it with me later. Um, yeah, I just love to be able to create a space to amplify the voices of women that are inspiring us in our lives. So, uh, well I really appreciate this conversation and I think it's magic. This is where I love to spend a lot of my time. So this is giving my listeners a kind of different perspective on, on me and like what I really think travel and journeying is. And I love that we were able to kind of bring this to this Soul of Travel podcast today.
Lena:Yeah, me too. Thank you so much.
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