Episode 121 - Elyse Mailhot, EM Adventure Marketing
What do kayaking around a polar glacier and pausing to watch a single leaf autumn leaf blowing in the breeze have in common?
Whatever you make of it. Travelers are adept at accessing that feeling – that inner knowing – of mindful wonder that can be found both in our furthest travels and our everyday lives.
The Journey Toward Awe
This week’s Soul of Travel Podcast guest is Elyse Mailhot, Founder and CEO of EM Adventure Marketing, a boutique consultancy specializing in integrated marketing and communication in transformational adventure travel. Elyse brings over 25 years of industry experience and an impressive global media portfolio, having worked with some of North America’s most innovative tourism organizations and DMOs, including Destination Canada, Tourism Vancouver, Destination BC, and leading adventure tour specialists around the world.
Elyse’s passion for travel started very young; as she was inspired watching her older sisters travel, she always knew she wanted to work in the travel and tourism industry. After finding a tourism and marketing course and diving deeper into the industry, she always knew she was in the right place.
But that contentment had a shelf life. After coming to a crossroads in her corporate career, Elyse took a break and trekked to the top of a mountain, finding herself – in more ways than one – at the summit, eventually leading to the creation of EM Adventure Marketing.
That summit held something magical for Elyse that many travelers can also relate to: It’s the sense of Awe. With so many folks now recognizing the power of awe through travel, we can begin to name and tap into this power as a catalyst for transformation.
Elyse also shares that while the term “awe” has existed for years in our modern vocabulary, and she had glimpses of it herself throughout her life, the biggest awe that scared her – as a Frenchwoman – is the sense of beyond awe that she felt while traveling to Antarctica. Tune in to the podcast to hear Elyse’s story of reaching the furthest place she had imagined and the emotional and physical impact this moment had on her.
Elyse knows that at that moment, she opened herself up to a new understanding of transformational travel that would begin to help her guide her clients to adventure both inside and out.
“We become closer to the element we’re in, but also to people. We’re selfless. It’s more than about us.”
The Power of Saying No
Small business owners know: Difficult economic times have a tendency to send us into a lack mindset and push us toward saying “yes” to clients, activities, or jobs that may not align with our values out of the fear of loss. But Elyse reminds us that “no” is an even stronger term in attracting what makes us more connected to the meaning and experiences we truly want to have.
The “fast and crash” scheduling and efforts that many business owners put forth will not be sustainable. And for organizations that are focused on creating positive global impacts, choosing carefully is essential.
For women entrepreneurs and business owners especially, Elyse encourages us to believe in ourselves and discipline ourselves to set boundaries and structure our days for long-term balance and impact.
Micro-Travel Experiences
Elyse and Christine explore the possibility of approaching your entire life – and cultivating the mindset of transformational travel – in micro-travel experiences where you look for and notice the meaning, the beauty, the connection, and the wonder of life. Whether taking a moment on the trail to observe the tiniest plant or area of moss or pausing to have a meaningful conversation with the person at the checkout counter at the grocery store, opportunities for interacting with the world more mindfully are endless.
Responsible Storytelling About Travel
Elyse and Christine recognize and share about the shift happening in storytelling by travel writers and journalists to both recognize the previous harm done through extractive tourism and also set the stage for storytelling in a way that honors the host communities. In the tourism industry, individuals and groups are leading the pack in encouraging authentic and responsible storytelling.
In the Transformational Travel Council, for example, the Media Herald Mentorship Program is all about gathering purpose-driven journalists to change the narrative and the impact of travel.
Experience providers, DMOs, and journalists all have a responsibility to lead travel toward a more sustainable, more positively impactful, and more responsible future.
Soul of Travel Episode 121 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Elyse discuss:
The transformational power of travel
Creating micro-travel experiences in our everyday lives
The power of saying “No” to create more balance in our lives and businesses
The concept of awe and what it means in travel and our lives
Creating a positive impact through responsible storytelling
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Elyse Mailhot.
LOVE these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast! Make a difference by making a donation on PayPal.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #9: Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation.
Sustainable Development Goal #11 Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about EM Adventure Marketing, visit http://emadventuremarketing.com/.
Visit the Transformational Travel Council website at https://www.transformational.travel/.
Learn more about Rooted by travel storyteller Joanna Haugen at https://rootedstorytelling.com/.
For your copy of Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and how it can Transform Your Life by Dacher Keltner, visit your local bookstore or visit https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/622175/awe-by-dacher-keltner/.
For your copy of Pico Iyer’s The Art of Stillness, visit your local bookstore or https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Art-of-Stillness/Pico-Iyer/TED-Books/9781476784724.
Follow Elyse on your favorite social media network!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elyse-mailhot-1a9b5212/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emadventuremarketing/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EMAdventureMarketing
Twitter: @ema_marketing
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Ivana Damnjanović (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 121 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship, women entrepreneurs, transformational moments
Christine:
Elyse Mailhot is the founder and CEO of EM Adventure Marketing, a boutique consultancy specializing in integrated marketing and communication with focus on transformational adventure travel, combining a passion for adventure travel, and over 25 years of industry experience and impressive portfolio of industry leaders and media globally. Elyse has worked with some of North America's most innovative tourism organizations, dmo, which include Destination Canada, tourism Vancouver, destination bc, as well as leading adventure tour specialists, polar expedition cruise operators, indigenous lodges, marketing and destination development agencies and others. Elyse has been gaining media placement in the most prestigious and influential media outlets around the world. Her contagious passion, optimism, tireless work ethic, and impressive connections with tourism. Leaders have grown her clients' business and visibility in top media outlets. In our conversation, Elyse and I explore the transformational power of travel and the ways we can talk about these experiences. We also talk about the power of saying no and creating more balance in our business and lives. We also spend a bit of time thinking about the concept of awe and what it means in travel and in our lives. Love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Elyse Mailhot.
Christine:
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Uh, today it's going to be a fun conversation. I'm sure we were just laughing too much before we even got on here, so we'll see if we can stay on track. But I'm very happy to be joined today, um, by Elyse Mailhot. And she is a publicist and really focuses on adventure travel and transformational travel, which are two of my very favorite places to focus in the tourism industry. So we have so many great things in store, I can't wait to get started. So welcome to the podcast, Elyse.
Elyse:
Yeah, thank you Christine. It's a pleasure to be here and an honor. I really love your podcast. I'm a big fan, so thank you.
Christine:
Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, well as we get started, just to kick things off, I'd love to let you introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about your background and kind of how you began to find yourself drawn towards travel. And then we'll learn how that's you to where you are now.
Elyse:
Yes, yes. Well, thank you. So, um, I've been running my own business, so it's a small marketing and PR consultancy specializing, as you said, in adventure travel of transformational nature. Um, I've been running my business for about now eight years after a, um, you know, working in a corporate environment, a nine to five great position. But the purpose came. Something else called me and my entrepreneurship kind of wanted to emerge. And so I took a big leap of faith and started my company and it's been going very well. It's a beautiful space to be in.
Christine:
Yeah, it is. I think all the time I have to kind of pinch myself that I'm actually working a lot of times when I'm working. It feels, uh, yeah, very unreal. I was just sharing with someone that I ended up doing the pre-trip adventures for the Switzerland Adventure Travel Summit. And, you know, we were hiking together and biking together and ended up having to share a room because we couldn't camp out under the stars because it snowed. And, uh, you know, people are like that. That's work. Isn't it weird to have to all of a sudden share a room with your colleague or to spend all that time with them and like, no, at the end of the day, we always are like, we wish we could keep going and spend more time adventuring. So,
Elyse:
So true. And what we do actually in the industry and the opportunities to travel that we're given, um, a lot of our friends and you appreciate that they don't think we're working. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, we are fully enjoying and sharing, you know, our stories with our work colleagues and so on, our new people in the industry, and we just share so much in those moments. And you get home and it's impossible to share that it's where do you start? So that's why I think the friendship in the industry that is, you know, are very, very, um, different mm-hmm. <affirmative> and very rewarding in in many ways.
Christine:
Yeah. It, it's a blessing, I think, to be in this space. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, well, you shared a little bit about, uh, about your business, but I would love to hear from you kind of what was the inspiration to leave that corporate world and really follow your dreams? What, what set you out on that path?
Elyse:
Yeah, if I can start maybe of, you know, my love of the industry and how I got into travel, and then it lead to that. It's all, it's all linked, obviously, but I always, always, always knew that I wanted to be in the travel business. You know, sometimes it get in college you have some decision to make, what do I wanna do? Psychology, you know, I don't know. And, uh, tourism was my, my passion and it started really young by, uh, having two older sisters that travel extensively. So they always inspired me and our parents would, you know, my parents and I would drive them to the airport, drop them off, and here they went again. So the joy, you know, the tears when they left and the tears when they came back. And I'm like, so last time, you know, we did that. We went to New York, it was chaotic.
Elyse:
And I look at my mother, I said, I wanna work here. How do I work here? And there was that lady behind the airline counter. And I'm like, okay, this is what I wanna do. What do I do? And then I, I research and I just found that tourism management course, and I, I went and took it three years and then I went in marketing and I traveled quite a bit after that. And I, I knew I was in the right place. It resonated very deeply in me. And then I had very good position working for different DM os quite young, had really good. So I got to travel. My twenties were extraordinary. What we've got, you know, what I did, what we did with, you know, within the D M O and all my friends there, um, we traveled a lot. And then, anyway, fast forward, I have a really good position for our DMO and then I get stuck a little bit in that corporate environment.
Elyse:
And, which I loved my job, but something was not right in me. So anyway, I had to take a little break and I went on a heli hiking holiday and I claim I, I climbed a very challenging viera, reached a mountaintop look around, and I was in awe. I was like, welcome back Elyse. This is your happy place. So I went back to work two weeks later and really nobody really asked how was it and all that. So you keep that feeling to yourself. And, uh, not long after it was that, okay, it is time to shake things up and, uh, took a pause and started my company and, um, thought I had enough relationships with industry colleagues around the world, but also some travel media cuz I was in the communication department and my last position and had really good contacts worldwide. And I'm like, I can do this. I did it. So anyway, I did and I never looked back. It's been challenging being in small companies for sure, but I wouldn't do it otherwise. Um, so yeah.
Christine:
Um, I love that you knew that you wanted to do this like out of the gate cuz I think so many people I've talked to kind of found their way into tourism because it spoke to, you know, their curiosity about the world or their sense of wonder or, uh, their sense of community or, you know, they were doing writing or photography and it like, they eventually find their way. But I think you're one of the first people that I've talked to that said like, I know this is what I'm doing and Yeah. Started off on that path, so that's amazing.
Elyse:
Yeah. And is always, you know, also my father is to tell me, you know, explore life with curiosity and the world is a, well, it's a big place and now it's a small place. We know now that we know people around the world. But, and I always walked in life with that and took, I was not, I avert to risk, you know, I'm a risk taker maybe somewhere a little too spontaneous. But you know, when you do now your age and you take calculated risk, it's a good place to be cuz life is too short to do something you don't like. And and really that's, that's my reasoning behind all that. Yeah. It's, I love it. I love the people in it. The community is impossible to match. Tourism community is phenomenal and when you try to venture in other industry, it's really hard to find the same feeling, the same connection, the same level of, of Yeah. Connection with people.
Christine:
Yeah. And I think it's cuz we value it so much. And that is part of, you know, when we travel, that's a part of the thing that comes alive for us. And so yeah, we, we just bring that with us everywhere. And I do think that's unique. But I, I also love that you, um, we were talking about this prior to today, but that you used the word awe as you were standing on the top of that mountain. And that was the, that moment of kind of reconnecting to yourself and being feeling so inspired and awakened. Um, I think it's a really interesting term because so many people are starting to resonate with that term now. Yes. And I was even, I was driving with my daughters in the car one day and they were talking about awe on the radio and they were talking about it in the context of seeing the sunrise and the sunset each day as a way to kind of kindle that feeling in yourself. Yeah, yeah. And I was telling them, I'm like, this is travel. Like this is transformational travel or this, that essence that I'm trying to create is awe. So I would love for you to maybe talk a little bit about like, that state of being or that, that aliveness that becomes, um, when we travel and, and how we can kind of tap into that.
Elyse:
Yeah. I mean another, another big moment. And that's where before it became, you know, a term that we used a lot. I mean, we, it always existed. Awesome. And, you know, all the things we, we say it every day almost, you know, we, we have those, we cultivate those little awe moments every day. You just need to see them. But my biggest awe, that actually scared me and, you know, being French, you know, there's an expression that is different but, you know, awe, it was actually beyond awe and I didn't know how to say it. And I, I'll, I'll put a little bit, the context is I had the, the chance to go to Antarctica and the place was magnificent of a beauty, a transformational beauty. It just gets you, it makes you realize you are so small in this world. Like, unbelievable. So long story short, I go on a kayaking ex excursion and I, I am a little bit ahead of the group.
Elyse:
Beautiful Sunday. Incredible. And I was kayaking by a big iceberg, not so close cuz we can't do that. But just the wind in my face and just feeling one with the element. And I had that pull all the time. I had that pull towards that massive and I'm like, oh my God, like what is this? So I go on, I had to stop and I start crying like I was crying of joy. Like even talking about it, I get emotional crying of joy and I'm like, I am here. I always dreamt of being here cuz I wanted to go the furthest where you could go traveling. And I was crying for all the people that don't get to do that. And also that wouldn't even try to get outside their comfort zone. And I keep thinking it is, it is beyond and oh, it was a celestine beauty.
Elyse:
It was a sacred breath that I took. You know, I couldn't, anyway, I just, so I got back to the ship and I wasn't that silence bubble for a long time. And we had, I had eye contact with some people, like the expedition leader asked me, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah. And he knew what I went through cuz he did the same thing. And there was that silence and I, I think it lasted for four or five hours. I really had to regroup and say, wow. And that was a calling. I don't know what it was, but it was incredible. And at that moment, it's funny, I shared that story with Jacob Haupert, the co-founder of the Transformational Travel Council. And he is like, okay girl, you get it. Mm-hmm. Like, I want you on my team, you so get it. I am with you in that kayak.
Elyse:
I feel it. And that's how I got involved at a different level. You know, the, the transformational, like the transit between adventure travel and more on the physical side for me, you know, it was like pushing myself out of my comfort zone often in nature. But it has to have a physical element to it. And that led me to start talking about it more often. And then I was working with clients that that's the type of adventure they were offering. You know, like adventure that makes you travel within as well as outside, you know, by the connection you have with the environment you're in and where it takes you and where how it makes you grow and change. So yeah, that's the journey that's so, the awe could be like that, but also is discovering or noticing the little awe moment you have every day.
Elyse:
We have them, they don't need to be celestial, you know, they are there and that makes us better people. That could be a healer, that could be, that takes us closer to our environment and nature. Whatever you, you find joy and awe connection with people, you know, it's just, yeah, I think a lot of our colleague can relate to that. But that's the, so I became a little selective of who I, I worked with and you know, the power of saying no sometimes. And I did, cuz if it didn't align, if I don't have my heart in it, I'm not as good at it. You know, sharing the stories of my client and, and, um, yeah, it's so far so good. And now it's reigniting. Um, you know, covid was very difficult and like everybody experienced that in all industry. But I think we've really, <laugh> small business owner really, really had a difficult and, uh, make us realize how much we miss travel. Then now I'm glad to see that it's reignited and my company is picking up again and I'm, I'm really grateful again for the, the leads that I had cuz it's people in the industry that said, you should talk to that person. And now I'm like, I'm, I'm thrilled about it. There's really good opportunities out there and I love what I do, so I'm not changing <laugh>,
Christine:
Thank you so much for sharing that story. I feel, um, well I feel that story for one thing. Um, yeah, that experience. And, um, I agree with you that like, that moment when you have that is so powerful and like I feel like maybe people might think that you would then become maybe addicted to pursuing that moment over and over. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I think what I found is that once I had that moment and felt how powerful and um, also, I love how you shared cuz this is what I usually try to convey is like how big the world is and how small you are and that like, that dissonance that you feel is so powerful and also makes you see this the privilege of just existing, right. And, and then, and it's not that you become, like, pursuant of that you become addicted, I think to seeing other people have that experience
Elyse:
Exactly. And wanting
Christine:
To share it. <laugh>
Elyse:
Absolutely. We become closer to the element we're in, but also to people we're selfless. It's more than about us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, so suddenly you want to share that. You want people to feel the excitement and you want to empower them to, to live something like that or make them notice that maybe they've seen it and they may not call it like that, but they lived it. That's that feeling. You know, the goosebump you have sometimes and you're like, oh my god. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the emotions, seeing two people hug or holding someone's hand or mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those are our moments. The human moments are, it's humanity and Yeah. Travel calls that very much so if your eyes are open to see that.
Christine:
Yeah. And as you were talking through that also, I was thinking about how much time we spend in our daily life feeling pretty numb and isolated and closed off. And it's almost like we forget how to see those things because also I feel like I now sometimes get like over raptured, like, too many things are beautiful and, and awesome and you kind of like, oh my gosh, I actually have to turn that down because it's, we're not used to being in that space. But I was thinking about, um, you mentioned the ttc and I was in Slovenia for their gathering this year, which was in itself awesome. To be amongst that community. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about that. Yeah. But there was a, we went on a hike and they asked us just to find a spot and sit and just be there for 15 minutes.
Christine:
Yeah. And like, you know, it was kind of early in the event and my brain was still like, 15 minutes, what am I gonna do just sitting here? And then, you know, you kind of sit down and I started thinking about how, like, what would my daughter, my littlest girl do if she was here? Well, she would start digging around and looking and seeing, and then like, I was really seeing like all the little pieces of moss growing on this one plant. And then that allowed me to notice like the smells. And then I could see these even smaller flowers like growing inside. I'm like, you know, I, I could have been hiking and felt like I was immersed in nature and it was beautiful. Right. It was really beautiful just to be in that hike, but then stopping and slowing down and going smaller and looking for that, like tiny awe was actually even more powerful than the big mountains, the fall colors and all of those things.
Elyse:
Yeah, no, totally. And and another moment like sharing, as you said, I wonder how my daughters would react to that with DC or just making them, you know, look at it with different eyes. Well, I had the chance to take my, my daughter to the Arctic, to the Canadian Arctic on a small ship, you know, with scientists and, and all that knowledge that was on board and being shared and so on. And to see them in awe, you know, we sung nor walls, you know, you're a little girl, you see a noal. I mean, it's, it's phenomenal. Or bears first outing we see bears, polar bears, there were many of them and they were blown away. And it, it changed their trajectory. It awakened their sense of adventure. Now it was pretty, you know, pretty amazing that they had to go there. And I'm grateful for my clients at the time, but just an incredible experience. And two, put your kids in, in an environment like that is incredible. Or any travel experience. And it could be a micro travel experience. It doesn't need, it could be just, you know, in the little community and now we're away that you never really stuck, you've driven by, but, you know, so we don't need to go far to find that, but just to get out of our, of ourself and also our surroundings mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, daily surroundings, you know. Yeah. I think is is really important. Yeah. It change, it makes you grow.
Christine:
Yeah. Cultivating that mindset Yeah. So that you can do it every day, like you said, around you, near to you just setting the intention that Yes. That even this next trip to the grocery store, you know, that you could not just zone out and you could pay attention and engage with, you know, your children if they're in the car and see things. Mm-hmm. You know, my kids will see 'em all the time, and I'm half the time just like, I'm trying to concentrate and it's traffic. Please stop interrupting me. And then you listened and they're like, they are noticing the things around you that you have turned off
Elyse:
<laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, yeah. So the TTC is an incredible forum. The community, the collective of people wanting that and the purpose-driven individual to share it and use tourism as a peace agent, you know, as, as a power for the, the greater good. Um, and to be part of that is phenomenal. Yeah. Um, it changed you as well. And another story is just coming up. I I didn't share it with you yet, but you know, transformational travel is also stepping into your outside your comfort zone. Right. And at some point, like there was someone in the community I, I talked to, I really got along and I said, you know about transformational travel, I need to walk the talk. I really need to walk my talk. I am terrified of horses and I'm just gonna go talk to that operator. I said, how can we work together?
Elyse:
I love what you're doing. And anyway, it took me on a horseback riding a, a four day horseback, riding a adventure. Okay. Four days in Patagonia, <laugh> like horseback riding on little path like that. You look down and you're like, wow, this is like a, an Italian highway. Like if you are your folding <laugh>, you're just gone. Right. And I'm talking to the horse and he said, you know, just feel him. So anyway, incredible journey. Talk about, okay, I can do this. And it was transformative, beyond transformative. And then the last day, I am running, I'm one with the horse, I am fast and just feeling one again with the environment and that thing that, that being that was so intimidating to me. So I came back and again. Wow. And it was almost like it was by choice. I was challenged by choice, you know. And again, that's that moment just like, okay, walk the talk as well as talking about it is one thing, but really finding the environment to really also push it outside mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which you would normally experience and face your fear. Yeah. And journal about it. Journal about it, um, is powerful.
Christine:
Yeah. It's so powerful. I find myself now, especially coaching myself through those things. So also I'll witness myself having that moment and I'm like, okay, well what would you be telling someone if they weren't you? Right. And so then you're giving yourself, like, trying to bring in these awarenesses and intentions as you're in the process. I, I had an experience riding the horse and Peru, and I love horses, so Yeah. It wasn't necessarily that, but it was, I hadn't ridden in a long time and I grew up with horses, so they were almost always horses I knew, um, that I was trusting. So that's a very different relationship. Yeah. And I was on gear that didn't fit me because I was far too tall for the saddle that they gave me. So it was awkward and the road was muddy and slippery. And so, you know, I just kept telling myself like, you know, you, you are going to get through this and you can trust the horse.
Christine:
And I just like kept putting my hand on him and telling him that I believed in him Yeah. And that we were gonna get through this together. And, you know, by the end of that, it was such a powerful experience and I was like, look, we like, we did this, this, this is incredible. And then again, like the first thought was, I can't imagine. Cause I was scouting a trip, I'm like, what if I had been doing this with eight women or 10 women and we all got to reach the end of this journey together. Mm. What would that be like to be able to share that experience? Mm. Um, uh, so I just, it's so powerful. And I think, again, just goes back to the thing that we really wanna share it with others.
Elyse:
<laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's in the storytelling, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's into storytelling.
Christine:
Yeah. Um, well, and we have, I, what I wanted to talk to you a little bit actually really is about storytelling. And we were talking about this the other day about really the way we tell stories matters. And, um, uh, a mutual, uh, colleague or someone, we both have deep ad admin admiration for Joanna Hagan, shared an article today about things that travel and content creators can do to be more transparent. And it also really talked about how, um, content creators have not really been allowed to, or have been encouraged to share stories that really kind of flatten a destination and misrepresent people and establish expectations that are not real. And so we, you and I were talking about like, how do we really begin then to educate travelers, writers, editors to tell a different story in travel? So that tr so that there's like a tipping point to towards reality because we've been marketing travel in such a Yeah. A, a way that only shows a very slim vision of what traveling actually means. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And while it's beautiful and you can have those moments, it also kind of takes away all these moments that you and I have shared that come from engaging in a very different way. So I just wanted to talk to you a little a bit about like, how do we start this shift and what can we do to have these conversations and what would that mean if we were telling a different story?
Elyse:
Yeah. It, it's very interesting. I think it is shifting. We still have a long way to go. Um, but I think travel writers travel journalism has a huge responsibility now. We know what's happening on the planet. We know how tourism has been extracting out of destination instead of giving back. We talk about it, but not very many people are writing that. And it's writing about the people as well as the places or host, you know, oh yes, you can do this. I don't wanna name any destination. I every destination has some thing to talk about. Others than the, the pretty hotels and the top things. You know, top 10 things you can do in a destination. I think it's talking about our host and how we can give back, change the narrative, educate people like the storytelling and travel needs to be educational, inspiring. Of course you need to entice them at the end of the day when you're in pr you know, you, you want to to to attract the right people to go to those destinations.
Elyse:
You want people to go, but in which way to travel, you know? Um, and sometimes the, the travel writers are hosted, of course, most of the time, and they feel the responsibility to say that everything is rosy and you know, it, it doesn't work like that. So I think the authenticity of the, the stories is also very important. Um, I think there are movement in the industry that are being, you know, that are emerging right now and some individual that are leading the pack to really remind everybody that this is how it should be written or encourage them to look at different story angles. And I think the editors are also have the responsibility to accept those pitches. A lot of freelancers are like, this is what I wanna write about. Okay, I get it. I get the angle you want me to pitch, or I will find my own story, but I didn't get it.
Elyse:
I didn't get that assignment. They were not quite there yet. And big publication that should be open to that. So I think the movement, one of the movement, again, as we talked to the about the Transformational Travel Council is that we started, and I guess I co-founded it, you know, maybe three years ago now, um, after long conversation, is that we started a program called the Her program, Herald Media Program. And, um, it is about gathering some people, some journalists that have the same, they are purpose driven, they want to write, they want to change the narrative of travel. And we used to lead that. We as a non-travel writers, you know, and now the, the platform that the group have changed a little bit. And now it is led by Heralds for hers mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So together they, they are brainstorming and getting different ideas and ways to how they can do that.
Elyse:
Um, you know, writing responsibly, you know, sustainability, um, respectfully, you know, talking about the, the people again in, in the places and different way to experience that. And also educating the host to maybe not only conduct, you know, the the site expec, you know, inspection, the site inspection, but also take them outside their beautiful venue and show them how it could be done. So people, when they stay there, you know, they can experience that a different way. And it's very important to to, to do that, to shift that narrative. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and people like Joanna are doing this and yeah. Just kudos by the way, what she produces, the material she produces is amazing.
Christine:
Yeah. Thank you. And for anybody listening, they can go back and listen to my conversation with her and I'll definitely encourage you to find her out there Yeah. In the world and, and listen, uh, and read what she's writing. But I think one of the things I was thinking of as you were talking is a lot of times, uh, maybe people think if we're asking to shift the narrative, that if we're talking about a destination, we're asking to tell kind of like all the dark secrets of a destination or that all of a sudden everything we're writing is negative. And I think that is, uh, an interesting assumption that isn't true because as you, just because you're not only focusing on like the palm trees and whatever that, that we have been sold for so long, you can start to hear stories of people that are also very positive and very inspiring.
Christine:
And so I think that it would also be really great to try to dispel that the opposite of what we've seen is something negative, because I don't think that that's true. I think it's just such a, a broader richer understanding that we can share and, and kind of like, you know, Janet had shared that it's very flattened. Like we can add some depth to this and still invite travelers to feel, you know, really connected with a destination in a way that maybe they wouldn't have even known to try to achieve. Because that hasn't been the story that they have been hearing more commonly in the past. And so I think that's also why it's so important is maybe we just don't even know how to go about that. And, you know, so many of us are not as lucky as we are to have traveled so many times and to have had these experiences and to trust them. So they need a little guidance on what that might look like.
Elyse:
Yeah. But we have a big responsibility too. You know, suppliers have a big responsibility. DM os have a huge responsibility. They need to, you know, the, you know, the measure of success, the success measure is really has to change and it's starting to change. It's not heads in bed anymore mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and it's just making sure that the setup is, is different for the people visiting. Um, something came to mind actually also for travel journalists, it's also writing about different destination, you know, the lesser note place, the destination that's been under the shadow of some very big popular towns and sites. That's where the gold nuggets is. People have no idea. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And again, but then you find that that secret, now they're conflicting. Do you wanna tell the world about those places? So again, it's how we tell this story that is very important. Yeah. Um, yeah.
Christine:
Yeah. I think
Elyse:
It, it really is. There's so much.
Christine:
Yeah. Yeah. There's so much opportunity and room for creating impact and I think that's what I continually come back to instead of maybe being discouraged with the way things have been, is to see all the ways they haven't and the way that we can move into those spaces. Yeah. And I think that's sometimes helpful as well.
Elyse:
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Christine:
Um, well we also, uh, were talking a little bit about, and you mentioned earlier the power of saying no, but, um, I think as business owners and especially small business owners, when we're working, we start out in this mode of go, go, go, go, go to get your business going. And it's kind of, you shared with me this idea of kind of fast and crash. Um, and that, that is in itself not sustainable. If we're talking also about sustainability, <laugh> No. But, um, I see that in myself and I try and catch myself and pull myself out of it. And sometimes obviously we set schedules up that we can't back away from, but we can at least be aware that we've done it and not just be in that pattern. But how, how did you see yourself operating in that pattern in the past, and then now how do you try to work with more intention and find that balance?
Elyse:
Yeah, I think, um, you know, to come back about the power of no is really, I think women, you know, we're, we're, a lot of us have problem to say, no, not everybody, I don't wanna use the word pleaser, you know what I mean? But it, it's, and it's empowering to say no, it's extremely empowering and, you know, people respect you more. And so that's the no on the business side is that, you know, you could be desperate and needing some, you know, to work with certain client and so on. But if it's not a good fit, nobody will benefit from it. So what I mean by that is also it needs to be the right place. And you know what it is, you know, again, on the PR and marketing side, you know, you can do a good job cuz you believe in it.
Elyse:
And also to discipline yourself. And again, I don't do all that <laugh>, but, you know, to, to structure your day, you know that yeah, I have two speeds, fast and crash is not sustainable. And again, it's to be organized and balanced, but to also say, you know what, no, I cannot deliver that for nine o'clock tomorrow. It's just not gonna happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think again, people have, uh, maybe we learned that during Covid is that, do you want to operate like you did? No. And we see that people are, are leaving their, their work. And I read something actually last night about, you know, there was the quiet quitting and now it's the conscious quitting. I love it is that our young pe our daughters, our young adult's daughter will not settle for less. They will not. They wanna be part, they wanna be part of, they are changemaker. They have no choice. So they will work for employers, people like us that want to make this world better. You know, the environment, the people are, they're treated, you know, the inter the cultural element, you know, supporting people at very different level. And if the corporate world doesn't know for offer that to, to the work fa to the work, um, workers, you know, the, the workforce, sorry, it's not gonna work. This is what's happening. We see a big shift and I think it's a good shift.
Christine:
Yeah. So
Elyse:
We know about it and we need to apply that ourself.
Christine:
Yeah. I think it, it is a, it's a amazing to see where some of that shift has happened. And I know for myself, I've been trying more and more to really just like be honest if I've accepted something that shouldn't have been on my plate and say, I'm so sorry, but like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I really have to give this back to you, or I have to set it aside for a minute and I will get it to you. Can we address any kind of deadlines or, you know, having those kinds of conversations versus where before I would've been like, great, well I'm just not sleeping for the next 67 hours, but I will get it all done. Yeah. Um, and I definitely would have done that in the past. And also you mentioned the respect of mm-hmm. <affirmative> of seeing someone give you a No, um, I had a, I have a, she's now a really dear friend, but when I met her, I was at an event and, um, she had, I had a list of people that I was talking to and they gave me emails for certain reasons and I reached out to her because, um, I wanted her to, you know, be a part of something and she said, oh, no, no, I would've never put my name on that list.
Christine:
I'm really not interested in it. And I was at first just like, what just happened? I mean, if someone had called me and, and thought I had my name on that list, I would've been like, oh, you're right. I, I probably did put it on there and go ahead and tell me about that thing, and then I'm probably gonna commit to it even if I didn't want to. But she just said, Nope, I would've never done that. Yeah. And what happened, I was like, how did you, I ended up emailing her a couple weeks later saying, how did you do that? Actually? How did you tell me no <laugh>, because I wanna learn what, just what you just did. Yeah. Um, and sh it turned out she was a coach, so I, I ended up actually hiring her to work with. Yeah. Um, but it was the very first time I think that I had really just seen someone so confidently
Elyse:
Yeah. So clear.
Christine:
Deliver that. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's
Elyse:
Powerful. It is very powerful. Maybe you'll learn that with, you know, the experience or takes a while. You don't wanna disappoint people. But I, it's not about disappointing people, it's about, you know, respecting yourself as much as the, the, you know, the people on the other side, your client on the other side, your, your, your guests on the other side, you know? Yeah. It's, yeah. It's something that we need to do more, but I think the younger generations are, the younger workforce is better at it than us. Maybe too good at it, but let's not go in that conversation. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, yeah, it has changed and it's up to us to, to adapt.
Christine:
Yeah. I agree. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, well I have loved being able to connect with you through this conversation. Yeah. Uh, before we wrap up, I just wanted to make sure there isn't anything else that you wanted to offer in this space. We, we've had so many preparatory conversations, so I don't wanna miss any of the gems that we've been been sharing in the past. Yeah.
Elyse:
I mean, we were talking, and again, I've posted it all over the place, but we were talking about awe moment and, you know, transformational moment. Let's bringing that to that cuz that's what it is. Um, but there's a book out there, uh, by Dashner Ketner that is called Awe, the Science of Everyday Moment. And it is an excellent, excellent read. It's supported by science, the science of emotion, and is just, uh, it's very good. Um, and through that he, he remind us that these moments are opening our minds to wonder, and they are, you know, instrument of, of to heal and heal other people and to heal even our planet. And where we find awe is different for everyone. And, and it's to remember that again, our listeners should, should not think that they need to go <laugh> on the mountaintop to find that they can find it in, you know, a museum looking at a piece of art and, and being in awe. Um, and we talked about it, so I don't wanna repeat, but that is a really good read. I highly appre, you know, uh, suggest that.
Christine:
Yeah. Uh, I think it's such a valuable, uh, point too. I've talked a lot about how adventure means different things to different people and that it's on a spectrum, but I think it's also really valuable to understand that transformation is on a spectrum, both in terms of like maybe what we expect as a transformation, but as you mentioned, like what will be that thing that oh, is the thing that ignites you. It's, it's such a personal experience and I think that is what makes it so powerful because it's yours. Like, I can't just crank out these experiences and everybody will go through them and walk away feeling the same, that it is your experience. And that's what's so empowering. And even like coming back to that idea of group travel, when I am creating experience, like I have an idea of things that might resonate with people, but, but everybody is walking in there as themselves with their own way of being and seeing and understanding.
Christine:
And so they are gonna have and engage with everything slightly different. But then when you're traveling with a group, you can reflect on everybody else's experience. And so then that also kind of mm-hmm. <affirmative> gives you a moment of their awe, I guess. Yes. Which is also very powerful. But I think it, it's so important, I think people will start to hear a word, like a transformation and start to project what they need to get out of it. And then it becomes like this to-do thing or it becomes unachievable and like maybe to take it back to that moment of like the moss and the flower. Like it exists for everybody in their own way, and it really is coming into themselves to, to experience what it is and also not judge that experience that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, wherever you find that awe is where you should find it. It shouldn't, it doesn't mean that you're like, oh, well Elyse like climbed this mountain and went to Antarctica and that's where awe is. And so me doing this isn't awe. Like it is awe. And it is, yeah.
Elyse:
We are all
Christine:
Yeah.
Elyse:
<laugh> to not forget that. And, and, and in the book, what he comes up with is the eighth wonders of life. And if you look it goes in detail with it, but you can find it in people, you know, courage, the strain, the kindness. You can fight it in nature. For me it's for nature. Obviously you can fight it in music, in in, you know, in concert in arts, you can fight it in religion and spirituality in epiphany, you know, the big idea and life, the birth of life, you know, seeing an infant coming to life and, and the death, you know, the closest, the realization that there's something else after this life. Those are all, all moments and, and you know, it makes sense, you know, there's the natural wonder of the wonders of, of, you know, on the planet, but there's also the eight Wonders of life, which I think is a good way to look at it.
Elyse:
And it is not a trend. I can tell, I could hear some people thinking, oh, transformational travel is a trend, you know, it is not a trend. It always existed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're just bringing it to the surface, to the real thing. Enough fluff. I think we, we've learned that we need more than things and experience is the currency of the days. Um, so we talked about that. You know, my personally, currency has never been money. It's been experiences and this sense of belonging to a community that is purpose driven. And, uh, I think it's important to, to yeah. To find your currency and to live by it.
Christine:
Yeah. Oh my goodness, that's so good. Um, I feel like I could take that and run for another amount of time, but I think we'll leave it there. But I really appreciate that's, uh, really speaks to my heart, so I'm glad that we were able to bring that into the conversation, um, and to land there. Uh, before we end, I would love to just, I have a few rapid fire ish questions, uh, to share. So we'll go into those. And the first one I think we've already covered, but just in case there's anything else, the first question is, what are you reading right now? <laugh>
Elyse:
<laugh>. Guess I am reading off again, second times. And, uh, also, I mean, my, on my bedside table, I have the pico wire, you know, the Art of stillness. Mm-hmm. The slowing down and noticing what's around you. We had a, I had a chance to see him speak about it. It's a tiny little book, but it's so good. The Art of Stillness. Yeah. It's a go-to for me.
Christine:
Oh my goodness. He's such a, a brilliant writer. I was just listening to one of my favorite podcast hosts, interview him, and it was such a great conversation. But, uh, yeah, that is a great author for anyone, I think in this genre to turn to for inspiration. Yeah. And just the of language in general.
Elyse:
Yeah.
Christine:
Yeah. Uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Elyse:
Oh, I have, um, my journal, my journal. I have my passport in a beautiful little leather pocket, and I've got, you know, pictures of my family and a little note from my dad before he passed. And it, it's, it's, you know, when there is a will, there is a way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I always carry that when I fly. And I, I read it every time I feel connected with one. And I love, love fly. I know it's a different conversation. We will fly last and stay where we go longer, but, um, again, it's being in the hands of the universe. Whatever happened, you're on the, you're on your, the plane, you look around, you may have forgotten something at home, there's nothing you can do. So settle in the unknown. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I love that feeling.
Christine:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a magical experience. I think if you, if you don't let it just be the thing that gets you from one place to the next and you like witness what's actually happening and, and where you're going, uh, yeah. I agree. It's, uh, can be a very powerful experience. Yeah. Um, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you lived there for a short while. Uh, where is a place that you would love to sojourn?
Elyse:
Well, um, I'd like to go back to Patagonia. I think it's unfinished business there, but, uh, Greece is calling right now with my daughter, um, to share that experience before she moves on, then go to university. So that's, that's where I want the land right now. So I'll go to Greece for a little, a little moment.
Christine:
Yeah. Uh, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Elyse:
Oh yeah. That's a good question. Well, I think Thai food, <laugh>, the smells, the lemon grass, the spice. Yeah. I'd say Thai food right now. I mean, Italy, pasta, <laugh> food, but yeah. Yeah. The aroma of delicious Thai food works.
Christine:
Who was the person or who was a person who inspired and encouraged you to set out to explore the world?
Elyse:
I'd say my older sisters for sure. Yeah. Um, one, yeah. Settled in Europe and never really came back. And one came to Western Canada and I followed, I left my native land of Quebec to move to the West Coast and never regretted it, missing the culture a little bit, but yeah. Loving visiting.
Christine:
Um, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Elyse:
Mm. They would talk of food, right. Anthony Bourdain. I'd love to go deep and just go meet the people. I don't know if I would eat spider or anything, but I'd love to travel with him.
Christine:
Yeah. Um, yeah, I think he's a definitely a top 10, if not a, like, top one or two request amongst my guests. So it would've been an amazing experience.
Elyse:
And of course, Jane Goodall would be another one to be closer to, to nature and really immerse herself in that amazing nature in wildlife. Yeah. Um, yeah, she'd be another one. She's alive. Maybe I could do that. Yes.
Christine:
<laugh>, you could do that. Uh, so, uh, soul of Travel is a space for honoring the voices of women in the industry, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize here.
Elyse:
You know what, I'm gonna keep it micro and right now, Christine, I love what you're doing. I know. I'm just gonna, seriously, I think you're giving the stage to many voices and you let us share our stories. There's incredible women on your podcast and you're, you're a busy mom, you're a busy business owner, but this is your business as well. And I, I just wanna say that I think it's, it's very courageous and honorable what you're doing. So right now, I just wanna give you the kudos and, and delight and delight on you.
Christine:
Aw, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that. Um, well, this has been a lovely conversation and I'm also just so grateful for the connection that it was able to create for us to come together and get to know one another. So thank you for being here and sharing your passion for travel with us today.
Elyse:
Oh, thank you, Christine. I really enjoyed it. Could go on forever.
Christine:
<laugh>. Thank you.
Elyse:
All right. Thank you.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.