Episode 128 - Sofya Muhrer-Muromets, TourRadar
Join us for the second episode of the special four-part interview series on the Soul of Travel Podcast, partnering with Women in Travel (CIC) to bring you exclusive conversations with their community members to set the stage for the upcoming International Women in Travel and Tourism Forum, being held on June 22nd at Google headquarters in London.
This week’s Soul of Travel Podcast guest is Sofya Muhrer-Muromets, Sustainability Lead at Tour Radar, an online adventure booking platform offering over 50,000 organized adventures by trusted global operators.
Sofya holds a BA in political science with a specialization in climate politics and an MBA with a specialization in sustainable management. She has set a personal goal to show, guide and support the journey of change toward a better future. Sofya strongly believes that everything is connected and the climate challenges we face today can be overcome collaboratively.
Regenerative and Sustainable Practices in Tourism
As the Sustainability Lead for TourRadar, Sofya heads a multi-faceted approach to sustainability strategies with both internal and external approaches. Diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives and sustainable office management are some of the efforts to ensure sustainable practices within the organization.
Sofya advocates for an approach that doesn’t simply reduce harm but also creates positive impact and restorative practices. This expands from TourRadar’s climate action plan, decolonization efforts, and methods of reducing the carbon footprint of tour operations to the positive impact of carbon removal strategies. This leads to the “handprint of tourism,” the possible positive impact of tourism and travel on destinations and communities, especially those that depend on tourism as a central part of the local economy.
The Transformational Power of Travel
In a conversation about Sofya’s upcoming extended bike trip, she shares her journey with imposter syndrome and the negative assumptions she has faced about women in leadership positions. Despite her confidence, she, too, must face the small voice of negative self-talk. The bike trip for Sofya presents a mental, intellectual, and emotional challenge to let go of control and show herself that she can do difficult things with an attitude of open-mindedness and vulnerability.
Collective Power
In the episode, Christine and Sofya discuss the challenges faced by tourism professionals when solving for problems of climate action, sustainability, and gender equity. It is not enough, they share, to speak of the challenges; we must also come together to talk about the solutions and offer our individual gifts, passions, and intentions that will plant the seeds of change to make a bigger impact. For Sofya, this is what she calls collective power, the positive change we can create when we each contribute into the greater effort.
“By coming together as a collective with different perspectives, with different backgrounds, this diversity, this is what makes us stronger. And this is what makes tourism stronger, because we are one of the most diverse industries.”
Soul of Travel Episode 128 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Sofya discuss:
Connections between gender equity and sustainability
Climate challenges and a collaborative approach to solutions
The transformational power of travel
The positive impact of tourism
The force in our collective power
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Sofya Muhrer-Muromets.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #1: End poverty in all its forms everywhere.
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about Women in Travel (CIC)!
Register for the International Women in Travel and Tourism Forum in London at https://iwttf.com/.
To learn more about Tour Radar, visit the website at https://www.tourradar.com/.
To find your copy of Hood Feminism, visit https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/586743/hood-feminism-by-mikki-kendall/.
Follow Sofya and TourRadar on your favorite social media network!
Connect with Sofya on LinkedIn, or follow Tour Radar on Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, YouTube, or Facebook.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Sofya Muhrer-Muromets (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of 2022’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
Soul of Travel Episode 128 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine:
I'm speaking with Sofya Muhrer-Muromets, Sustainability Lead at Tour Radar with a Bachelor's in political science, with a specialization in climate politics, and an MBA with a specialization in sustainable management has set a personal goal to show, guide and support the journey of change toward a better future. She is a strong believer that everything is connected and the climate challenges we face today can be overcome collaboratively. In our conversation, we speak about ways we can address climate change and gender equity through sustainable travel, the transformational power of travel, and her upcoming cycling journey, and the force she sees in our collective power. If you are inspired by this conversation and want to connect with other women influencing change, be sure to join us for the International Women in Travel and Tourism Forum. Join me now for my soulful conversation.
Christine:
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm so excited to be joined by Sofya Muhrer-Muromets and she is the sustainability Lead at Tour Radar. And we are here for our second conversation in the special series, um, to promote International Women Travel and Tourism Forum. And I can't wait. We've just spent a little time getting to know each other and I'm, I really can't wait to begin the conversation and bring in our audience. So welcome to the podcast.
Sofya:
Thank you. Thank you, Christine.
Christine:
Uh, to begin, I'd love to just give you a moment to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit what you do at Tour Radar.
Sofya:
Um, so if you already mentioned, um, I'm Sustainability Lead for those who might, uh, don't know. Tour Radar is, uh, online adventure booking platform, and we have over 50,000 of organized adventures that are operated by trusted, um, operators. And my role actually is very broad as everything when it comes to sustainability, and that's what I love about it. Um, it's really from internal sustainability, um, strategy, diversity, equity and inclusion and initiatives for our employees, um, sustainable office management, and obviously the external part of, um, how we represent ourselves to, um, to our surroundings, to our ecosystem, to the environment, what kind of impact we have. Um, and I'm responsible for our gas declaration commitment, our climate action plan to colonization strategy, looking and searching for the right carbon removal solutions, um, or how we can support operators to become more sustainable, to reduce where carbon footprint, because we all know tourism industry, um, we always talk about tourism industry's footprint, and that we need to lower it, we need to decarbonize it.
Sofya:
Um, so yeah, so like how we can show what operators already doing, uh, because there's quite a, um, really big number of operators, the PS when it comes to sustainability, but actually how we can support the smaller operators, because we have, in South Africa, maybe in Peru, who doesn't, they don't have maybe a knowledge or resources, um, where even to start because, um, the topic is big, um, and easily people can get overwhelmed. So this is kind of how we can support them, how we can make it easier for them to make just a few steps on their journey that actually has an impact on everyone. Um, and on the other side, um, how we can talk more about the hand print of tourism, you know, like this, um, positive impact of tourism or destinations and communities and how we can talk more about it as well. So then we, when we talk about tourism, it's not just about carbon and how bad it's, but actually not to forget destinations and communities that are depending on tourism and that we can just cancel, um, long haul flight through Barbados, um, for example. Um, so yeah, it's very broad. It's, um, very interesting. Um, very special. Um, yeah, so to come up in a few sentences, <laugh>.
Christine:
Yeah. Thank you so much. And I, I love that kind of painting, that picture of sustainability, because I think, um, it's obviously evolved a lot, um, throughout, you know, when we first started having conversations in sustainability to, to today and, and the things that fall under that umbrella, I think are part of the things that make people resistant to it, because it seems like it encompasses so much. And yet, as you mentioned, it kind of gives us all of this opportunity. And, um, I know one of the things that we're both really passionate about is sustainability and gender equity, and we're gonna get to that in a moment. But one of the things I love about it is because they touch upon one another and so many different ways. And some people might think that that means, you know, then you have to address all of these different things, but for me, it almost feels like everything you do has the possibility to create a positive impact.
Christine:
And I loved the idea of a hand print, um, that kind of gives me chills because I feel like it is also, there's so much negativity kind of interwoven with sustainability. It, it feels like a burden or a chore. And what it really is, is like this gift that we can use travel to transform and to create opportunity and impact, which, uh, again, I know is something that we are both really inspired by. So we'll get more into that. But first, I would love to hear from you how you got into tourism and how you really realized this was a place that you could create a positive impact.
Sofya:
Mm, this is actually a very interesting story. Um, I was working in tourism industry when I was a teenager, but then back in 2014, I landed in Vienna and actually started a Korean fashion industry. But, you know, people change, uh, lifestyle values changing. Um, and I went through complete transformation of myself as a person, how I see the world, what kind of values I have. Um, and just one day, um, I was traveling through, through Iceland and I manifested a workspace where I can be my truly authentic self, where I feel valued for who I am and what I believe in. And since six months later, I started a tour as a office manager. Um, and I have never felt, you know, like this special belonging feeling. Um, and I fell in love with tourism industry all over again. So, and I reminded myself like actually, um, I had this feeling already, like, uh, years ago. Um, and now here I am again, you know, like I'm back here and it's kinda, um, yeah, calm and calm and I don't think I wanna leave. So, <laugh>
Christine:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I love that. And, and really, um, kind of letting people think about how our values and our directions can change. And I think also sometimes they just, you know, we prioritize different values. Maybe it didn't change, but there's something else that was really driving us, but then there's this undercurrent of something else that just kind of comes back to us. And I think travel is a space that allows us to see some of those truths about ourselves. Um, and I already, we had talked about before we started that we would never have enough time in the 30 minutes for this conversation to go in depth, but I will definitely have you back because I want to dive more into, uh, manifesting this dream job and what that felt like. But today we're gonna jump right into really talking about, um, the, the role of, uh, gender equity or our, our passion for gender equity in the industry.
Christine:
And, and, um, how I W T T F really is a place for these important conversations where women are really stepping into leadership roles, and we can think about how tourism can support gender equity. Um, but from you, I'd like to get a better understanding or share how people in businesses in our sector can understand how they are or, or are not supporting, uh, women's rights in the industry right now. Maybe talking about addressing gender pay gap or, um, family or professional roles for women, and how these things all become a part of supporting gender equity in the industry.
Sofya:
Yeah. Um, super interesting topic, especially, um, you know, like these company on three different continents in Australia, north American, Canada, and in Europe in Vienna, um, and tourism industry. Um, you know, like just looking into statistics that employs every 10th person in the world, and actually 58% of the people are females who work in tourism industry. Um, and I'm always the person who tells or face we need to talk more about it, that it's not a taboo anymore. That, um, the how you address gender, like, yeah, gender equity in your company, um, how you talk about it to your, um, coworkers, to your managers if you don't feel appreciated or valued or, you know, like have open talks about it, um, and can rate this safe pace in at work, you know, like that people actually feel comfortable to talk about it. Um, and it comes to everything.
Sofya:
It's not just a gender pay gap and it's, um, being a mother or, um, being a father, because we, especially in Europe, you know, like there's, um, um, a lot of very equity, um, going, you know, like with maternity and maternity leave. Um, so it's, um, not just always about the mothers. We have a lot of fathers as well. So how we make this workplace, especially as a tech company, a fast-paced place, um, really like not affordable to them, but that they value and they know that we're valued. And it, they don't care if they go at three o'clock to pick up their kid and spend, uh, really precious quality time with them and jump on the call at 7:00 PM or something. Um, you know, like this flexible time, uh, working time remote, working this kind of policies, opportunities for the employees just to show them that we value your work, we value who you are, we value who you're at your life and your private life.
Sofya:
Um, and as long as all of those components, you know, like in harmony, um, it always works out. And I see it because we have remote working opportunities, we have flexible working hours, um, and we are doing great and everyone loves working here. And, um, it, it's like really to see of this. Um, I always think they have so many, um, directors, um, female, and they are mothers. And I always feel when I grow up, I wanna be like them because how they manage it, um, it's just incredible. And just to see how they is supporting them, uh, by giving this flexibility, um, it's just, um, this is the place you want to be. But not just intu, it's just, you know, like, it just shows you that it's possible if you listen to the people, what they need. Uh, because, uh, before the pandemic, it wasn't like that.
Sofya:
Um, and pandemic showed a lot how much the private life, um, actually means to people how valuable this time is. Um, and it opened a lot of new doors and it closed the old ones. Um, and everyone adjusted super quickly. Um, and only good came out of it. Um, so like, why don't implement it everywhere, um, as a two operator company or, um, if your travel agents, um, society, like anywhere you can adopt it. So it's just like this willingness to transform, uh, to make this step to the leap and take the risk, I would say. Um, but yeah, so like, and especially in our industry and what Aandra and they're doing, uh, the Travel Guide Academy, um, sharing the knowledge, um, and you know, like I, sometimes I miss this collectively brainstorming session, so I don't, um, you know, like to jump on a call with someone who maybe before the pandemic was the competitor, but when it comes to sustainability or to gender equity, um, we all struggle with the same problems.
Sofya:
We all have the same challenges, so why don't work on them together and find the solutions, how to address it, um, cause this end, this, the pandemics this answer to e to everything, and there's solution for everything. So, but you can achieve it together collectively. And this is actually all of, um, this amazing small companies. So organizations, you know, like who are doing to support females, um, they're really doing a great job and showing that, um, the females, you know, like women just can step up finally, you know, like feeling, um, elevated, you know, like feeling supported. That industry is behind them. Uh, they value them, they recognize them, we know what they're doing. Um, and we just want to take leap of faith with them, you know, like, can to go the next step. I will describe it like this. Yeah, yeah.
Christine:
Um, again, so many amazing things that you ta you touched on in that. Um, one is a theme that we hear a lot about in conversations on this podcast is kind of shifting from the idea employees come to work and that actually humans come to work and that we can't really, like, have them drop all of those roles the minute they walk into the door. And when we do, so we are kind of holding them back. But if you give them a space to embrace all of those parts of themselves, that actually might be the thing that pushes them forward in their career or the company forward because of the way that they show up, or the, the way that maybe you're taking the pressure of worrying about all these other obligations that you're not able to do. So you're distracted. I, I think there's so many benefits to that.
Christine:
Um, and then also talking about, you know, how people are starting to see that we have to work together and be collaborative to solve these greater issues. I think especially in sustainability, we have the privilege of witnessing that and seeing these great minds coming together and, and problem solving and knowing that it's only going to serve a greater good. Um, which would really, I would love to then, uh, talk about my very favorite hashtag on your LinkedIn profile of Collective Power. Um, as soon as I read that, I knew that we were people of the same <laugh>, the same mindset. Um, so I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that means to you and why you think that's important in business and like in our own personal journeys as well.
Sofya:
Um, I mentioned right now, you know, that sometimes send this, um, collectiveness is, I would call it not like that we started together, that we come together, uh, to actually talk about solutions and the challenges. Cause as I mentioned, we all face the same challenges. And climate change is the challenge that, you know, like kind of, um, yeah, fix on, uh, like all over us and you know, like everyone is trying to do something on their individual level. Um, but the next step to bring it forward, uh, will be, you know, like to plant these seeds of change that you carry with yourself. Um, and actually, you know, like kind of build, um, your own group, you know, like your, your people and you bring these seeds out in the world to, to actually, um, create this, um, bigger group as, or I, as I call it.
Sofya:
Um, yeah. Like I'm, I'm working and creating on my group that will take over the planet. Um, so that's what collective power means to me, is myself. You know, like I became this a little bit new person, you know, like, uh, I changed my daily habits. Um, I have, uh, I gained a new perspective, different perspectives. I open up to a world and see it with a different eyes when I was seeing it before. Um, and I feel that if I could do it, then everyone could do it. But on individual level, it's still, we can make, so like on individual level, we can do a lot, but on collective level they can do much more. And that's why even it's a cliche, but together we are stronger. Um, but it, it's true. Together, we are stronger. And this is the collective power. So if you want to have a solution for something, if you want to achieve something, is, is it, uh, gender equity?
Sofya:
Is it animal welfare? Is it climate action? Um, together we can achieve much more. And really by coming together as a collective with different perspectives, with different background, uh, this diversity, you know, like behind this old minds, um, this is what makes us stronger. And this is what makes the tourism stronger because we are one of the most diverse industries. Uh, they have aviation, they have hospitality. They like, they have, um, everything. Like, it's the diversity of the industry. And if all of these great minds, you know, like companies will come together, imagine the outcome of this collective power, um, I don't think everyone will set a chance against us, you know? So
Christine:
Yeah, I, I think that all the time. I think if I could sit all of the, you know, a hundred and some women together that I've interviewed in one room, I just feel like it would ex explode. Like there's just so much brilliance and passion and, and capability to solve these things. And like you said, kind of working alone, we can get things done and we can speak from our passions, but there's something about that collective energy. And, um, just as an example, I'm in this fellowship for women who have impact driven businesses, and there's, I think a hundred women from 60 or 70 different countries around the world. So it's very diverse minds kind of coming together, different circumstances, different ways of problem solving. And we broke out into a small group, and I was talking about, you know, the travel that I run for women and that it's focused on sustainability and personal growth and cultural preservation, and doing that in connection with women in these destinations.
Christine:
And one of the projects that I really like to support is, um, period, poverty and education about that. And so then the next person speaks and she happens to run a nonprofit in the US supporting education about period poverty. And then the next woman comes on, and she's from Nigeria, and she is a medical manufacturer. And one of the new products she just started creating was menstrual cups. And then, then the, the last woman that comes in runs this, um, boxing program in, um, Egypt. And she is really trying to empower women. And, um, one of their greatest challenges is when they go to competitions overseas, they actually perfor they can't afford products, menstrual products. And so just in this circle sitting down, we were like, oh my goodness. Like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We just figured this all out. And I just was like weeping after that call because I just thought, this is, this is collective power.
Christine:
Like this is what we can do together. And so I, I love gathering people together because I, I think there is some magic that happens and the way that we wanna support one another when we're all kind of working from this space is really, I think, so magical. Um, I would, before we, you know, one of the last things I wanted to talk to you about, um, I guess speaking of magic for me, cuz this is my magic is the transformational power of travel. And I know this is something that you have also really felt and witnessed. Um, and I know you have this really amazing bike journey coming up where you're riding your bike from New York to Toronto in just a month. And I would love to talk to you a little bit about maybe your motivations behind that, but also how you see travel, having that transformational power and how it helps us to build confidence, like kind of see how we overcome challenges, understand how we set and achieve goals, and why this is so important for us and for women. I, I think especially this is a place that we can really tap into something within ourselves.
Sofya:
Yeah. Um, um, just to start, um, you know, like to kick it off, um, until recently I wasn't really aware of imposter syndrome, you know, like, and what is it actually about? And you know, like I started to do research and, you know, like maybe to Google my symptoms. So what I think, you know, like, and then all of the statistics came in and um, you know, like when you are in leading positions or maybe how many actually females are having these, you know, like troubled thoughts on, um, and who doubt themselves, you know, like, and even thought I'm, you know, like very confident, but sometimes we all have this small devil or a few of them, you know, like sitting on our shoulders and you know, like it wasn't enough. Your knowledge is not enough, but this could have been done differently. Um, and we all have it every day.
Sofya:
Um, and this is why, you know, like these trips, like this biking journey, um, so important for me, it's my, it's not my physical challenge because I am have been always very parties person. I love sports, I love outdoors, but it's not the mental challenge for me, um, that I can do it. I can achieve it, um, from New York to Toronto, it's um, thousand kilometers. I always forget how much it was a miles. Um, uh, but it's, it's quite a journey. Um, you know, like just, just bike, uh, not really organizing something, uh, you know, like letting it go. Um, letting off the control. Um, and just to show myself that I, I can, I can do it. And when you are out there on your own with your thoughts, you know, like you have, um, I think that's what you know, is not national about travel.
Sofya:
Um, I think we are more vulnerable when we're traveling because we are out of our comfort zones. We are letting go our daily routines. We have more time with our inner thoughts, with our deep vicious, um, we are more open-minded, um, to what comes our way. Um, and that's, you know, like my personal transformation happened when I started to hike. Um, I didn't hike before. Uh, but the same as the hikes, you know, like to achieve these thousand high meters. And when you are on the peak of the mountain and you see this grand view and how big it is around you and you as a person actually so small, um, and all of the doubts that you had in your mind, you made it up and they're actually so small. Um, so yeah, this is when I started, you know, like to feel this transformational power of travel, um, this step by step on the peak to the mountain or you know, like puddle by puddle on the bike, um, this small, small steps that bring you to your long-term goals or maybe even a short term goals for you as the person. Uh, but still this small steps in between they count the most and how you feel about it, how you feel about yourself. And that's why I, I can't wait for this journey. I mean, it's already in a month. Um, it's kind of surreal because, um, it was very, um, yeah, spontaneous, crazy, um, idea of mine to, I wanted to do something outta my comfort zone for my 30th birthday. So yeah, read an article on New York Times and here come <laugh> motorbike and we'll cycle through <laugh>.
Christine:
Yeah. Well congratulations and I'm so excited for you. But I really loved, you know, as you were sharing, uh, each of those kind of experiences, the idea and you know, we say it all the time that it's not so much about the destination, it's about the, the process it takes to get you there. But that's such a great way of just, you know, when you are hiking, it's literally a lot of the conversation, especially if it's a difficult trail, is just like one more foot. Okay, we did it one more foot. And you can spend hours in that conversation <laugh>, and then, you know, you kind of come up and you, you see around you. And the, and that awe that you mentioned is, uh, I mean I think that's really everything is, is that moment of just kind of seeing the vastness of the world and like, you're sitting here having this huge struggle and it's all about you and it's all about you and it's all about you. And then you look up and you realize it's not about you at all. <laugh>. Exactly. And it's exactly just such a, um, a powerful moment. And I think, uh, yeah, I, I I think that so many of us have had that experience, but it's often hard to put it into words cuz it's such a, a deep personal feeling that you have.
Sofya:
Yeah, yeah.
Christine:
Um, well I have loved so much having this conversation, it's been far too short for me, but I really appreciate you sharing your passion, um, for, for sustainability and gender equity and getting to talk a little bit more about some of these ideas that I love, like the, the power that we have together and the power that travel holds. Um, before we wrap up our conversation, I have two just rapid fire or I call them rapid fire ish questions, uh, to end our call. Um, the first one is, uh, what are you reading right now?
Sofya:
Uh, the hood of feminism.
Christine:
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Okay. That feels like something I have to look at right away. <laugh>.
Sofya:
Um, it's really interesting. One I can only recommend can be a little bit tricky in the beginning, uh, but yeah, just to remind ourselves what is it actually all about and what is actually feminism about because um, it's becoming a buzzword when it shouldn't. Um, so actually what are the roots and yeah, can highly recommend it.
Christine:
Okay, so in our part two conversation, we'll come back to that cuz I have a really interesting story to share around like my, i my moment of realizing I was a feminist and what that felt like in my body and all these things that I had heard about that my whole life. But we have to just leave people with a cliffhanger on that. Um, the last, uh, question or, or really is just a space for you to honor, um, another woman in tourism Soul of travel is really for telling the stories of women, women and recognizing the positive impact they're having around the world. Is there, uh, one woman you'd like to recognize in this space?
Sofya:
Uh, really hard one because I have millions of them. Um, I think it's always, um, sometimes hard, you know, like to recognize one person because when you think about one, immediately you connect another one and connect another one. And I will just keep the pace to recognize all of us, all of the females, um, all of the fe female, like all of the people who, um, feel like female and call them females. Um, you're doing amazing. You're doing a great job. You are where you are because of who you are. Um, and everyone loves you. That's, yeah, my heart goes out to all of them. Thank you. Yeah,
Christine:
Thank you so much. I think that's, I think that's a beautiful gift to give all of our listeners to whom many are women working in this industry. So I appreciate you recognizing each of each one of them. Um, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation and I can't wait to have the opportunity to connect with you, um, at the International Women Travel and Tourism Forum. And I appreciate you being here with me today.
Sofya:
Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Thank you.
Christine:
Thank you.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.