Episode 79- Paula Vlamings, Tourism Cares
Travel makes you rich, and if you're planning on big travel you are absolutely right, it will change your life. But travel also has an impact on the world around us. Tourism impacts the environment, economy, future of the cities, and so much more.
Tourism has changed over the last couple of years. The way we find our hotels and book trips is completely different now. Technology has changed the way we travel and it's time for us to embrace the change as we have already embraced the change in technology.
For more than a decade, Paula Vlamings has worked at the intersection of tourism and sustainability. She is currently the Chief Impact Officer at Tourism Cares, a travel industry nonprofit whose mission is to be a catalyst of positive social, environmental, and economic impact for the people and places of travel.
Prior to Tourism Cares, Paula was the Executive Director of The Planeterra Foundation, the nonprofit foundation of the global travel company, G Adventures, where she pioneered incubating social enterprises supporting women, youth, and indigenous communities into the tourism supply chain. Paula spent over 10 years in politics which provided her with a unique set of skills in diplomacy, fundraising, and cross-sector collaboration. Paula’s sustainability work includes leading a national multi-stakeholder Food for the Parks initiative at the Institute at the Golden Gate, a program of the Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. That effort resulted in a national policy change to more sustainable practices in our nation’s parks, in collaboration with First Lady Michelle Obama’s Council on Environmental Equality.
Paula is an international speaker on sustainable tourism and is frequently called upon as a media source for publications including The New York Times, Forbes, AFAR, Travel Weekly, and Newsweek. She has served on numerous nonprofit boards and is currently on the board of Omprakash. Paula is also one of the Co-founders of the Future of Tourism Coalition.
This connection is brought into her career and we talked about the way she works to address global systemic issues, and the work she's doing with tourism cares and the future of the tourism coalition.
Join me now for my soulful conversation with Paula Vlamings.
In this episode, Christine and Paula discuss:
How travel found Paula and where she fits in the travel industry
Why Paula works to address global systemic issues
The work Paula doing with Tourism Cares
The future of the tourism coalition
Paula’s big travel dream and what she learned during this experience with her husband
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Paula has traveled to over 75 countries on all 7 continents. In 2014, Paula realized a wild travel to dream to drive from San Francisco to Tierra del Fuego, literally the end of the world. For 2 years, she and her husband lived a nomad life, slowly and deliberately through 17 countries and 24 border crossings, where the importance of environmental and social sustainability were a daily consideration of life on the road. Every mile is chronicled at www.ourbiggerpicture.com
To learn about Paula Vlamings and Tourism Cares, head over to https://www.tourismcares.org
Follow Paula on LinkedIn
The Future of Tourism Coalition https://www.futureoftourism.org/
Tourism Cares with Colombia https://www.tourismcares.org/colombia-summit
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About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.
The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.
These conversations are meant to educate, inspire and create community. They are directed to new travelers and seasoned travelers, as well as industry professionals and those who are curious about a career in travel.
If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Paula Vlamings (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.
Transcript
KEYWORDS
travel, community, tourism, people, world, experience, destinations, industry, place, life, sustainability, itineraries, create, travelers, organizations, coalition, important, impact,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08
Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.
For more than a decade, Paula Vlamings has worked at the intersection of tourism and sustainability. She's currently the chief impact officer at tourism cares, a travel industry nonprofit whose mission is to be a catalyst of positive social, environmental and economic impact for the people in places of travel. Prior to tourism cares, Paula was the executive director of the planetary Foundation, the nonprofit foundation of the global travel company G adventures, where she pioneered incubating social enterprises supporting women, youth and indigenous communities into the tourism supply chain. Paula spent over 10 years in politics, which provided her with a unique set of skills in diplomacy, fundraising and cross sector collaboration. Paulo's sustainability work includes leading a national multi stakeholder food for the parks initiative at the Institute at the Golden Gate, which is a program of the Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. That effort resulted in a national policy change to more sustainable practices in our nation's parks in collaboration with First Lady Michelle Obama's Council on Environmental Equality. Paula is an international speaker on sustainable tourism and is frequently called upon as a media source for publications, including the New York Times, Forbes, afar, travel weekly, and Newsweek. Paul is also one of the cofounders of the future of tourism coalition. In our conversation, we talked about the importance of travel in her life since childhood. Her dream made a reality journey spending two years traveling to 17 countries driving from San Francisco to Tierra del Fuego. And how all of this time spent in the world helped her to understand issues facing both travelers and communities. This connection is brought into her career and we talked about the way she works to address global systemic issues, and the work she's doing with tourism cares and the future of the tourism coalition. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Paula Vlamings. Welcome to the soul of travel. I'm Christine. And I'm so excited today to be sitting down with Paula Vlamings, who is the Chief impact Officer of Tourism Cares. One of my very favorite job titles, I feel like that we should all aspire to be Chief Impact Officer. Maybe it's not meant to be my job title. Regardless, I'm so excited that you are here for this conversation today. I love tourism cares, and I really can't wait to learn more about your story and also the work that you're doing.
04:22
Hey, Christine, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:26
Thank you. Well, as we get started, the first thing I'd love for you to do is just introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are traveling with right now.
04:39
Thank you, Christine. As you mentioned, the hard title of Chief Impact Officer for Tourism Cares. I want to be CEO in the beginning and then it's transitioned into this impact role to really help the organization evolve. We've been evolving our mission for the last three and a half, four years now. Moving from a volunteer based organization to As a sustainable travel organization that is helping the industry that more of the mainstream travel industry move along its sustainability journey. So it is an organization that has about 180 members that spans the entire travel sector. It's very cross-sector from the rental car companies and hotels and tour operators, we were sort of worn out from the tour operator associations us TOA and MTA. And we also have as to on our board, which is the American Society of Travel advisors. So it's an organization that's really supporting the industry for the long term survival of the industry, sort of helping it move along its sustainability journey and connect to the communities and destinations that we depend on. I mean, this is the heart and soul of why we travel and helping protect those destinations is what tourism cares about. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 05:45
Thank you for sharing that. I know that I have loved seeing that evolution, as my career has evolved as well. I feel like there's a lot of similarities. And I really love seeing that across the board from organizations that I kind of bumped into early on, and then seeing them grow and shift and really have the opportunity now I think to become real visible leaders in the industry. And that's really exciting for me to get to, to witness that because it's been something I've been passionate about since my grad school days. And I feel like finally, this time is arriving where we can really start to create the impact that many of us have been thinking about for many, many years.
06:32
Yes, yes, it feels like I've been at this for 15 years now. But it's never more prevalent and never more important than now coming out of COVID where we see what happens when we live unsustainably, when we live in a way that's creating these conditions for such a pandemic. So it feels very important now, even though we've been in it all these years, but it's it's we're playing the long game here. And so we have to keep at it for sure.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:56
Ya know, and it's really good to have this kind of boost and rekindling to reignite I think, and just really bring some new vision. And later on, we're going to talk about some fun collaborations and other ways that the tourism industry is kind of evolving together. And so we can really highlight what that looks like. But before we get there, I would love to talk a little bit about travel in your life. And so one of the questions I really love to ask is How to Travel find you, or how did it begin to show up? And how did you begin to recognize that it would play such an important part of your life?
07:40
Christine, I think I'll go all the way back to the beginning for just a minute. I think for me, travel has always been a part of my life. I grew up as a military kid, I was in the Air Force. But my parents had emigrated to the US in their 20s, from Holland from the Netherlands after World War Two. And so I grew up. I was born in Key West Florida, and I moved to Biloxi, Mississippi, and then I moved to Ankara, Turkey, and it just kept going and going and going. So we moved every couple of years. So travel had been a part of my life pretty early on kind of a gypsy lifestyle, nomadic lifestyle, as a family. And then I definitely have that travel bug in me. And I think I lived overseas for about seven, almost seven years. I left when I was eight years old, moved to Europe and grew up there until I was 15. Because all of our family was there. And we traveled a lot around Europe and just got a sense of many different cultures and many different ways of living and belief systems. And I think that opened up a whole world for me. And then as an adult, I gravitated towards public policy and politics. And I worked in that arena for many years really looking at how we create better systems, better policies, better laws. And so that's been a part of I think the evolution of me ending up working at an NGO, a travel NGO that between the travel and knowing that so much of doing tourism, right and doing tourism well relies a lot on public policy and local local ordinances, and different land rights and water rights. And all of that is built into tourism. Destination Management is what they call it now, I guess. But I ended up working in the political arena, and then ended up running an institute and Environmental Institute in San Francisco, very much focused on sustainability and met and learned from some of the best sustainability leaders in the world who were brought together at that Institute. And I started to really feel like the travel part of what sustainability is. And these holistic systems really started to be ingrained in me through that experience. And I was able to really parlay that into a career and travel and sustainability and that has led me to tourism cares. But before that, I ran the planetary foundation for GE adventures where we really started to see how do you integrate impact organizations and really doing good in the world into travel itineraries, kind of moving beyond the dependency model of charity and philanthropy which has a role, but if you plug it into these companies, we really started to see The long term benefits and real sustainable income generation and real change and impact. So that was all the evolution that brought me here. But I think it's many components of my background, which I think is the case for many people, each layer kind of adds to where you end up. But travel has been a part of my life. And I think when I started to see how I might be able to parlay that into a career through sustainability, it all made sense for me.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 10:26
Thank you for sharing that I love. I just love seeing how, like you've mentioned, those layers come together to become kind of this, this perfect puzzle, they sometimes seem like they're really disjointed, but all of a sudden you like find, you know, the missing piece that was underneath the table, and you're like, oh, okay, this really makes so much sense. And I just love how it creates a space for people to show up in this industry in a different way. Because they can use all their passions and educations and experiences throughout their careers to funnel them into these different positions in travel. And so I think that it's really important for people listening to hear how that journey can look, and how that 's really important, what shapes you lead you where you are going, and that it really is a journey. I also just on a personal note was so envious of the idea of a military family and a military brat. And growing up, I thought that was like the best situation, like I really understood it would be hard to leave friends and move from place to place. But really young, I knew I wanted to travel. And I just thought, Man, those people are so lucky that they have to travel like they just have to. And I'm sure looking back, every situation has its own benefits and downfalls. But that was one thing that I always really wished I would have been able to experience growing up.
11:59
It's funny, because at the time when you're a kid and you're moving all the time, and you leave your friends behind, and you think this is the worst thing that could happen to you as an adult, you kind of go, Wow, what an opportunity. And I think it's also made me very adaptable, you can kind of find your way in any situation. And that I think helps with travel, because that is certainly something that's the unpredictability of it is the joy in it. And I think that's something that you learn as a military kid, that you can't really count on too much. You just have to be flexible. And I think that's also the way that you see the world and I think it gives you a little bit of a different perspective growing up.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 12:33
I think that's something really interesting too, about professionals in this industry, or people working in tourism is that adaptability and that flexibility, because as you mentioned, it's very much a part of travel. And I think it's that resiliency that we've learned through travel that has really allowed for us to be innovative and also sustain, you know, our hold our ground during the last two years and really keep examining new possibilities. And I think that if any population of any industry was set up to be able to try to do this. It's the tourism industry. And I think I've again, we've kind of mentioned some of the collaborations and things that have come out of this. But I just think it was really amazing to witness that in action also for the last two years and see how lifelong travelers used that to move themselves forward. During this time. Did you find yourself drawing on that resiliency professionally as well?
13:33
Yeah, I think, you know, it was interesting, because everyone had a very different spectrum of risk. And some people in my world were absolutely 100% not traveling, not leaving your house not willing to do that. And then there's, there's all these layers of how comfortable are you? And how do you feel going out into the world? And I think those of us in the travel space were a little bit more risk tolerant, trying to be as careful as we could. But I think we were ready to get back to it, I think because we missed it so much, but also realizing that the industry really depended on it. And certainly the communities that we serve, were really dependent on it, and we're having a hard time knowing that travel wasn't going to be part of their existence. And that was part of the push to, for us to figure out ways to keep going. But I think that resiliency that's built in from just decades of travel and having to pivot no matter what happens to you helps in the professional world to know it's gonna, it's gonna we're gonna get through this and we're gonna have to see this through and you and you find ways to make it work and many companies did, certainly we did as well of virtual or just knowing that that the world will open up again, people talked about are we going to travel, you know, will travel come back. And I never had a doubt because that is certainly the way the world of not just so many more people wanting to travel but it's accessible to us. Now. We see it on social media, we know that it's out there and we want to experience that. So I think that helps a lot in terms of jumpstarting the industry again
Christine Winebrenner Irick 15:00
Yeah, I was thinking also about how you mentioned that when you were younger traveling and how you got to see and engage with the world really shaped how you wanted to show up in it later, you know, really understanding, witnessing firsthand different cultures and different experiences led you to kind of looking at it from the system's approach and into politics. And I think that is so powerful. That's why I think, why you really encourage people to travel, I think a lot of us think about it as this trip or vacation. But really, it's this way of having a greater understanding of your place as a global citizen, I think and I mentioned to you before we hopped on here that I'm getting ready to travel with my daughters for a year. And it's something before I had children before I even knew I would have children that I wanted to really place importance upon, because I would see young people traveling with their parents or traveling alone. And I just would know that those experiences they were having, were going to shift forever how they viewed everything about the world. And I think it's so important. And I know that you had another really great experience. In 2014, you set out to realize a big travel dream of yours. Can you share a little bit about what that dream was, and, and what you gained from that experience? Christine, first
16:27
of all, I'm just so thrilled that you're going to take a year and travel with your girls. First of all, I think that's just the most amazing thing, because it is a freedom that you'll never experience ever in your life. Unless you do it again and your girls to your point, it's going to be a life changing eye opening perspective for them and an education that they'll never get in a classroom. So I just know it takes a lot of courage to take that leap. I know how hard it is to unravel your life. But we started out in 2014. And it wasn't a spur of the moment thing by any stretch of the imagination. So if you know my husband and I, we, you know, we plan things that he planned things out. But when we met when we were in our early 20s, we had said to each other we would love to, you know, we had a dream to travel the world for a year. And it had never left us. We talked about it for many years. And then we got good jobs and we bought a house and life sort of snuck away from us. And then we were in our mid to late 40s. And we thought this is never going to happen unless we plan for it. So for 10 years, we sat down with a financial advisor and we said every year how are we going to have enough to get out and in 2014, we bought a pickup truck and a pop up camper. And we sort of built that rig for a couple years putting it together in San Francisco and then we drove from San Francisco all the way down through Mexico, Central America and South America to Ushuaia to the end of the world to Tierra del Fuego. And then we lived on the road for 26 months in the back of that pickup truck. And through 17 countries and 26 border crossings, we traveled slowly and we camped in these communities that many hadn't seen tourists. And we also hit every single tourist destination between here and the bottom of the world. And I think for us, it was a very different way of traveling. I've been traveling professionally for years, I've been traveling personally for years, but this was a way to really slow down and to get to know the communities, you know, we shopped in their grocery stores, we, you know, we struggle with a lot of the same things that they struggle with, there were towns where there was no water, we couldn't get enough water to fill our truck, the showers turned off for five hours a day or the water was turned off for five hours a day. I stood in line for four hours at an ATM and got to the front and there was no money anymore. I mean, we really struggle with many of the issues that these communities deal with on a daily basis. And yet we AirDrop tourists into those communities and they have everything that they need. And so we started to really see the disconnect between what these tourism communities were able to offer travelers and what they were dealing with themselves on a day to day basis. And that really started to inform my work. And my desire to come back after that trip, and really engage in sustainable tourism and community tourism, knowing that those resources are so precious in those communities and that we as travelers can't just take them, we have to invest in, we have to give back to those destinations in order for them to thrive. So living on the road like that was a real eye opener and a life changing experience for my husband and I because we also saw the world very differently and had to maneuver through the world very differently. And even through those countries that are considered quite dangerous. We found the people to be so warm and welcoming. They took good care of us and we had no problems. And you know, my husband likes to say that 99% of the world's people are just wonderful and friendly and kind and that is certainly what we experience. And at the same time, we saw a lot of negative impacts. You know, many, many communities in those destinations don't benefit from any tourism. And that's certainly something that's part of our mission at tourism cares to help bring those connections, those market connections to those folks, but just aside from that, it was it was the most free time in my life as an adult and it was the most joy and exploration and to see To the world that way to see every nook and cranny of soul as we could. It was quite a remarkable experience. And I really applaud you for taking the leap because it's a difficult leap and at the same time, it's really a life changing time.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 20:16
Hey, it's Christine interrupting this conversation for just a moment to remind you that I have a trip heading to Jordan soon. As my soul of travel community you may know I also have a travel company I am slowly bringing back to life. Lotus sojourns gives adventurous mindful women an opportunity to be a part of a global community connected by aligned values and transformational experiences. I have been dreaming of this trip to Jordan for so long, and it's finally time. I am booking the sojourn right now. You can still join me for this small group experience in September, but Registration closes on May 30. On this journey, we will be focused on connecting with women in social impact projects. Close to the most magical spots in Jordan, including Petra Wadi room and the Dead Sea. You will also get to prepare and share a traditional meal, sleep in a Bedouin tent camp and practice yoga at sunset in the desert. We immerse ourselves in community, connect to nature, explore the magic of this country and heal in community. Are you ready to nourish your soul and embark on a life changing journey to the beautiful country of Jordan, visit our website or email connect at Lotus sojourns.com to book before May 30. Now let's head back over to our soulful conversation. Yeah, thank you, I keep thinking about things like, how do you go from, you know, nine to five, go go and go to two years of slow travel. And as I understand it, you didn't really have an agenda and itinerary specifically, like you didn't know you were going to be this place by this date or this place by this date. So you really, really had a lot of freedom. And sometimes adapting to that much freedom can be a real struggle for people. I don't know how, how long did it take for you to get into the swing of that? Or for that to be something that felt natural and not, you know, so contrasting to your normal or your life prior to that?
22:26
That's a good question. I think the first couple of weeks, you know, we started in San Francisco and ended up in Baja, and then went to mainland Mexico. But I think there were two or three weeks where we sat on a beach in Baja, and just kind of watched the pelicans fish, and we're just sort of in a state of shock that this is our life. And as we started to travel around, I think one of the misconceptions about life on the road is that it's sort of like an extended vacation. And we quickly realized that it's not, it's your life, you're just happened to be living in a Rolling Rolling house, which we call our Casa row Dante, which literally means rolling out, but you know, you're dealing with a lot of the same things, you know, you've got to find shelter every night, and you've got to find places to eat and groceries. And you know, you have all of the you know, where do we find internet to do these things. So it started to really get into a rhythm, I would say probably two or three months in, where we started to realize that this is our life, it's not a vacation, and to just really soak up these moments, because we knew, once we got off the road, we would look back on this and think, Wow, that was that was so amazing, even the hard parts and a lot of people, we call ourselves overlanders because we're making our way overland, but most of the people that you'll talk to, will share that it's a lot of really high highs and low lows, because there's times where you're camping in a place so you're just like I just this is not living the dream, I can't believe I'm sleeping in a gas station, for example, because the distances between these two points is so vast and you need a safe place to sleep that you're sleeping in a gas station, or driving for you know, down in Argentina three days in a row without seeing anything, I mean anything and then thinking that this is just the boredom might kill me. And then that will open itself up to finally getting to wherever you need to be and camping with penguins outside your camper window or waking up to the sound of a whale just off shore. And those moments are just so incredibly precious. And they're the gifts that we really, really realized on the road. So as we got into this groove of knowing that those moments would come, the lows started to be worth it.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 24:26
That seems like a lot of travel is such a good metaphor for life in general, knowing that you really have to be paying attention to those high moments and help them to even out the low and know that you know that's always right around the corner. And I also was kind of envisioning, like a day of hiking and it's you kind of go through those similar emotions just throughout a day where you're like, Oh, this is the worst trail. My feet hurt. Why did I do this? Oh my gosh, that view is amazing. It's starting to get hot. I can't believe it's raining. I didn't bring my raincoat. That thing isn't, you know, you just kind of go through that in your mind and the process of doing that for two years, I can't decide if that sounds amazing or really, really intense. But I think, yeah, a little bit of both, yes, but I think I love sharing this, because I think so many people have dreams like this. And they don't allow themselves to create the space for that to happen. And I just think from anyone I've ever talked to how who has gotten ahead and taken that leap has really shaped who they are. And much like you said, like, who you are professionally, getting to spend so much time in those communities see that need, understand it firsthand, and then be able to come back and create something that serves those communities. I think that that's so amazing, I just think that for me, that's what lights me up. And I really wish that everybody could have an experience, that means something like that to them, and then be able to fold that into the life that they create, after their travels.
26:11
Absolutely, I do feel that if you have those experiences, outside of sort of a structured tour or something like that, you can kind of get off the pre ordained or the pre structured and have those spontaneous experiences. And that does really shape how you see what tourism can do and what travel can do. And I think that that, you know, that meeting of the mind, and part of that, too, is just meeting other travelers from all over the world who are having their experiences. And we you know, it was we were out there on our own independently. And I think that's a very different way to go through the world. And it really has informed the need to bring community into travel experiences, right, so that you're not a spectator, that you're very much of an interaction and a learner. And I think that's where you really remember that you're coming into these people's homes, and we literally camped in, you know, the driveways of people's homes or we would get lost and they would get in the truck with us. And they would drive us to their property and tell us that we could camp there and that's where you start to understand this, this exchange. And that's why for me community tourism is so incredibly important because those are the magical moments to find those experiences and to sit down and break bread and to understand other people's struggles. They're very similar to our own. And yet they're nothing like our own. And that's the moment that you start to have this respect for what other people are going through in our world.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 27:38
Yeah, absolutely. As you were describing that, I was thinking that those are some of the real key pieces that I had in mind as I started to create my company, Lotus sojourns were those awarenesses of the importance of community of those moments of breaking bread or having sharing tea is kind of what I also talk about and wanting to create those experiences for people, but also allowing them to do it as a group because there's something about seeing an experience through other people's eyes, and having awarenesses you might not have because we are experiencing every travel experience through our own, you know, our own experience. And we may not notice something that somebody else would, because it's just not a part of our own set of beliefs or challenges or whatever that we might be bringing into our travel experience. So I love that you've shared that. I think that's a great point to start talking a little bit about the work that you're doing for tourism cares. And specifically, I'd like to start talking about the meaningful travel map, because I think that's so interwoven into this idea of community. And, like you said, noticing some of these tourist attractions, the places that people normally have on their bucket list, if you will, and then all of the magic, I think that lies around it. And so I'd love for you to talk about a meaningful travel map. I know it started in Jordan, which I'm excited to be actually headed to soon, following a meaningful travel map as part of my guide, was something I was really excited about when I saw it come into creation. So can you walk us through how that collaboration started and why it was created, who it's benefiting from? And things like that?
29:28
Absolutely. And I'm so excited that you're going, Christine you're like the pit than me or the poster child for why we why we launched this project is for other tour operators and other people in the travel industry to know that these incredible experiences exist, and to visit them and incorporate them into their own itineraries. And that's the ethos of the meaningful map is creating these market connections and creating these opportunities for more communities to benefit through tourism. And so Jordan was launched in 2018 and really asked for who sits on our board. She's the director of the North American tourism board for Jordan, she had this brainchild to really connect these communities that she knew about to the rest of the travel industry. And part of that was, you know, many people go to Petra, many people go to some some of the hotspots in Jordan, and they do it a couple of days, or three, four days add on, but they don't really dive into the warmth and the beauty of the people some of the other experiences around the Jordan trail that just got launched when we did that program. So we worked for about a year with these community organizations through a community development consultant to get them market ready to get them more developed into tourism. And then we brought about 70 tourism professionals to these experiences, they were senior level product people, they were sales, they were CEOs, to feel and experience what this kind of travel is like without that experience without bringing them there, I don't think that they would have really seen and felt the magic. And so that's why meaningful travel summits are part of the meaningful map where we curate these experiences with the destination and with the community. And then we worked with them to launch the meaningful map of Jordan and we also went to Colombia. And those experiences are on that map. It's really a conduit and a portal for these communities to connect with the travel trade industry. And so once we launched Jordan with 12 social enterprises, now Jordan is working on expanding the map with other experiences. But that is an opportunity to say you can spend a week or two going through these destinations. But if you really connect with the community, you will have a much richer and real understanding of the sense of place. And so we did this in Puerto Rico, and we have launched it also in Colombia. And for Colombia, it was really coming out of this 50 year conflict where they are looking at tourism as this opportunity for really creating a new economic model, a new opportunity for communities, to tell their story and to rewrite their story about that conflict. And so that country and pro Colombia was really looking at sustainability to be really key to their development of tourism. So we were in and around metazine. And we were really working with 15 social enterprises that were telling their story and building tourism in a way that was really going to positively impact their community. And what we found is when we bring tour operators to these experiences, they come back and they're very excited. And they put these experiences into their itineraries. And that creates a real full circle loop of not only travelers finding a really unique way to experience a city or a destination, but that money goes back into the community. And it really helps the community thrive. And at the end of the day, that's what we as tourism industry professionals want, right? We want these communities to do well and thrive and be safe and beautiful for our travelers. So it's a real full circle loop in the meaningful map, we're hoping to develop into a tool that the industry can really look to, to find these experiences. And we work with community organizations to vet them and with destinations to promote them. And then we hope that the travel industry knows that they're there. And will look to the map to be a place and a clearinghouse for a lot of these experiences. So we're going one by one. But now we're also in the stage of really strategically looking at how do we build a map out? How do we create more scale around that with more destinations? So we're looking to promote sustainable, meaningful products. And so that map over the next year is really going to get built out. And we launched North America during the pandemic, as you mentioned, that includes Canada, and we're building Mexico. So we really hope that the industry will be cognizant that this product exists and how to work with them. And we have a product development guide as well for that. So the map is the tool to be the connector for all of these experiences through the destinations that we're working with.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 33:43
Yeah, that's great. I have recommended it to everyone that I can because I think it's such a great model. And for me, that's what I want most out of a travel experience and to have a resource that just does that for me. I mean, that's why when I when I saw that happening in Jordan, I thought, okay, now's the perfect time to go, unfortunately, didn't turn out to be the perfect time because I didn't know that we were going to be on the precipice of a pandemic, but it was just it was easy. Coming from it from a professional perspective. I was like, great, I don't have to do research. You know, knowing Malia and knowing her dedication and the way she views travel, I knew 100% and the work that tourism cares does, I could just trust this. I didn't have to spend a lot of time as you know, a one woman business trying to figure out all the ins and outs. I know that I want to work with women's social impact projects, like it's such a valuable resource. So I'm so excited to see it be expanded and for people to really pull it into the itineraries that they're offering and for all sizes of businesses, I think that it's really relevant to create impact. I was thinking about a time when I was in Uganda, almost 20 years ago, I guess, and I was in this village. It took us so long to get there, I have no idea where we were. But these women who were artisans brought all of these baskets and weaving and they were showing them to us, you know, and offering us to purchase them. And it was incredible. And I remember just being in this room where it was piled high. And I thought, how do we get tour operators who are already in these rural settings to connect with these artisans, and hear the story and support them through purchases? So like, probably, however, long ago, I was wishing that something like this existed. So that's probably part of why I'm such an enthusiastic champion of what this means for the industry and for communities around the world.
35:53
Yeah, that's a great example, Christine, because I think that there's, there's so many organizations out there that just need to tap on the shoulder and they need a little bit of help to get ready and to understand how to work with the travel trade. It's not, it's not a plug and play for any stretch, they made imagination. And so we hope that by supporting them and working with the ones that have already been vetted, you know, business owners, like you can say, Okay, this is this is the place that I want to plug it into, and how do we really build our itineraries around that. And certainly, you know, there's, there's so many more that are out there that we have not known about. And I think the more we talk about this, in forums like this, the more travel advisors and business owners can understand how incredibly rewarding it is to build products like this, and how incredibly impactful and important particularly for women owned businesses. We know that if we invest in women in these communities, they're the culture bearers, they will invest in their communities and will send their kids to school. We know that that investment is really critical. And so if we can use tourism dollars to do that, and that benefits the community, and the traveler has a great experience, it just feels like the way we should be moving forward. But I think those experiences are ones that are also better for the traveler. And just to give you a quick example, in Colombia, when the displaced people were moved, moving into the mountains outside of metazine, there's an entire community that lives in the hillsides and they were cut off from the actual city. So a few years ago, the government decided to do a lot of infrastructure work, and they built an escalator and it's an outdoor escalator that literally goes way up into the mountains. It's amazing. And so most of the tours that start in metazine, they go up the escalator, they get to the top, there's some t-shirt shops and ice cream shops and they do their little pictures. And they ride the escalator back down. And we worked with a community, a guy by the name of Freddie who has a samba TA, who found a cassette during the conflict and during the drug wars in his community. And he listened to this and it was an American rap DMC, hip hop music. And he started to really gravitate to this music. And it was music that really resonated with the rest of the community. And it kind of saved him. So we work with him. And we walk through his neighborhood all the way through communities a, which is this neighborhood on these little walkways to these communities, and we learn his story, we meet his tea, and we have a drink. And by the end of the tour, we end up at the top of the escalator and we have an ice cream and we write it down. And the difference in that experience is so rich, and it's putting money in that community where it's going to stay and really multiplied throughout the community as opposed to just showing up taking a picture and leaving and what you're describing as well as like if you we can honor the traditions of these communities in a way that's respectful and builds from the ground up in the way they want to present their tourism. It's a very different future for these communities. And I think that's a really important way to build trips and for travel advisors also to know that this exists for your clients. And it's it that transcends every price point. I believe that luxury travelers want to understand and learn and have these experiences just as much as budget travelers. So there's always kind of a disconnect between Oh, sustainable travel, it's too expensive or sustainable travel. It's too bare bones and it's too raw. So it exists all the way through the spectrum. Because I think there's no, there's no demographic that doesn't want to learn and understand and support. I think all travelers want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. I think that's pretty universal.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 39:23
Yeah, and I think really stepping away from the, I guess, I think highly perceived notion that sustainable travel just talks about, you know, maybe staying in an off grid property or, you know, items like that, and then you really look at sustainability. And what it's meant to be is to consider the environment and the culture and community and really build things from the ground up so that they have long term sustainability. I think people don't fully understand that meaning and when you look at it from that aspect, why? Well I'm super biased, but why would And everyone wants to have that experience. And it is so deeply impactful. Like you said, you could just ride that as that escalator, it's going to be a beautiful view, you're going to probably feel like you had a pretty cool experience. But when you take that moment, then to explore and to spend time and have one on one conversation, I think that human connection speaks to us at a different level. And we are really deeply connected to the experience. And that is invaluable. And that I think, when you're looking at this, from an operator perspective, that's what your travelers once feel that they don't think they will ever want to travel without feeling that I know I don't want to travel without feeling that like, I am constantly open to that experience. I'm awaiting the next person who's going to bring a little bit of magic into my life by sharing their story. So I'm really excited. And I'm grateful for you spending so much time talking about why this is important and impactful because I think it goes so far beyond what people typically expect out of a travel experience and opens the doors to such great possibilities. And not only that is when we have such a deep resonant experience and are so invested. I think that's where the system sustainability really even amplifies because then people want to find a way to give back or they want to support organizations doing things like this in the future. And I don't know if you have seen that ripple effect on people who have been engaged with this project in Jordan, and Colombia. Have you found that they have seen their travelers having those experiences and had that impact in their business?
41:48
Yeah, and it's yes. And it's interesting, because when the decision makers have these experiences, the decision makers in these travel companies, they themselves see it, and they feel it. And they know that it's going to be that case for their travelers, we certainly found that a planet Tara at GE adventures where those trips were some of the more talked about meaningful experiences. And they really resonated with those opportunities, which is why the company continues to build the product that way, because it is such a special kind of way to travel. And I think that's also really an important point is just by traveling this way you're supporting these communities. And I think going beyond, you know, donating or giving back, which is incredibly important. For volunteering, there's a way to just travel this way that supports these organizations, and creates a business opportunity for them, which creates long term impact, and, you know, skills transfers, and all of those things that are going to support that community long term. And that's using the tourism economic engine, which is so huge and powerful. And I think a lot of times if we just started to really all move our businesses toward this the kind of impact that positive impact that we could have in the world, to address some of these big issues that we see, I think we all struggle with the inequity of our experience, we come from very privileged places, usually to be able to travel the way we do. And we see these inequities. And if we just start to build travel in a way that supports them, it's really a win-win and a full circle of prosperity for everyone. And I think that's what companies are starting to see. And certainly that the travelers when they experience things like this, though, they'll they'll they'll understand that this is a way forward. That's not necessarily disadvantageous to either side.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:33
Yeah, thank you. It just makes me so happy for as many people to hear this as possible. So I really appreciate you sharing that with us. I would also love to talk about what we mentioned earlier, some of the collaborations and the innovation that has come out of this time in the industry. I think one of those was the future of the tourism coalition. It's one of those things that started to drop in front of me on LinkedIn. And as my colleagues started talking about it, I got really excited to see it starting to unravel. Can you talk to us a little bit about the future of the tourism coalition and its mission and how people can be involved with that. There are six
44:17
NGOs involved in the coalition plus the gstc, which is the global Sustainable Tourism Council. And we started having conversations before the pandemic about ways to collaborate because we all felt as sustainable travel NGOs that we were doing our work, but we weren't having as big of a voice. And we thought if we banded together and we really came together to see ways that we might collaborate. We could have a stronger voice in the industry. And then the pandemic hit. And we said, oh my gosh, if we don't come out of this, stop this shutdown in a different way. We're going to, we're going to really end up back where we started and what an incredible opportunity to take a pause and see what we Been doing wrong and adjust. And so we got together and we decided to form this coalition and all of the leaders were fairly new. And so it was kind of a new opportunity to come together in a collaborative way and not a competitive way. I think we started to realize that there's no competition and doing good. And it takes a holistic approach. It takes a real multi sector approach of all of us working together. And we all have different areas that we work in. But we overlap, but I don't think most of the industry knew what we were doing. We were all just a bunch of letters, it was crest and STI and gstc. And all these letters, and what do we actually do? And so we wanted to get more clear on that and offer up to the world what each of the NGOs do. But we also started to feel very strongly that we have to start looking at putting destinations, communities and environments at the forefront of tourism development. Because for so many, many years, it was like, let's go build a tour company or build a travel experience that the traveler wants, that's safe, without regard to what impact that has to the community and what they need and how those indirect impacts are going to happen down the line. And so we've come together with these 13 guiding principles that talk about how we put communities at the forefront through measuring different things for success, not just heads and beds, but how we are measuring local employment. How are we measuring for clean water? How are we measuring for, you know, waste management, those are those are metrics that destinations need to adhere to as well, if Turin's going to be successful, and then certainly understanding the effects of climate change is having on these destinations, and how do we decarbonize your supply chain, which sounds really amorphous and hard. But when it comes down to it, it's purchasing local foods and seeing how to buy locally and those kinds of things. So those are elements of everything that goes into those 13 guiding principles for the coalition to be a supportive entity, to companies and to destinations, we've all worked with different sets of different areas in the industry in different areas in the destinations. But now we're starting to see how we might overlap. And it's interesting because there also wasn't really a place or a forum or a movement in sustainable travel, we were all kind of working in our silos. And we don't have a big conference where we all get together. And we don't have a big trade association that lobbies on our behalf, we didn't have any of that. And we felt it was really important at this stage in our world, coming out of the pandemic, to have some kind of a collective. And when we started to put that out, we started to see that a lot of people like you, like, you know, all of these business owners and travel advisors who really feel passionately about this also didn't have a place to sort of glom onto there were different places and things that you could be a member of, or an association of, but nothing that really brought us all together. And so to date, we now have almost 700 signatories to the future of the tourism coalition. We've partnered with tourism to declare a climate emergency. And they come into the fold through the tribal Foundation, and that has over 300 businesses who are coming out with their own climate action plans. And we've decided, or we, we worked very early on to work with the cop 26 talks, the climate talks in Glasgow, and we, it was the first time that tourism had an official agenda at the climate talks, which is kind of amazing, because we you know, we like to say that we're one of the biggest employers in the world. And we're 10% of GDP, and we create all of these jobs. And yet, we haven't really been at the table in terms of dealing with some of these bigger issues, that not only affecting our business, but certainly affecting the communities that we operate in and on top of. And so that was kind of a big moment that the coalition was supporting that declaration. And now coming into this, we're working on a toolkit of all of our different offerings and practices. And we'll be putting that out this year to show the industry how we can be of benefit and how we can support those different areas. But it's looking at the industry as a whole and saying how do we create more sustainability practices within the industry, and within the destinations that are going to support all of our livelihoods? Volunteering, not just at the local level for communities but our own livelihoods as a travel industry, once we saw that it shut down. And we saw how much many areas benefited or no people in no tourism. We also saw how many barriers and benefits or areas and people were really suffering under the lack of tourism. So how do we balance that out? And it's been a really interesting adventure because the organizations are really building a high level of trust and a high level of awareness about what's going on. Now we understand the different efforts that are going on. So if you're working in destination X, and we're working with this company that's looking to expand their net we can have a collaborative conversation about it. So that's, that's a form that we're building and we have a community platform as well that anyone wants to sign on to be a signatory with the principles can be part of that community to ask this pack practices or they're just beginning on their sustainability journey or they're moving along and they've hit a hurdle. And how did Company X deal with that? Or? We're a destination that wants to decarbonize, what does that mean? It's really a community of sharing best practices and asking questions and sharing failures, so that we can all move forward, because we're all selling the same destinations, I think that's something that we kind of forget, all of these companies, for the most part, are selling the same place as the same destinations, and they're gonna thrive or decline based on what we do there. And I think it's really important that we work together to bring the industry together to support those places. So that's really the benefit of the coalition and, and the hope for its future.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:50
Yeah, I am so excited about the space that you just described, I know that again, early in my career, I would lean towards finding these organizations and following them and trying to, you know, listen to this here and read this here and follow this, and then one would drop off, and I'd find another one. And, like, trying to keep track of all these pieces, and I luckily knew they existed, but it was through like my own effort of really trying to figure it out. And also like, I could also kind of witness as someone from the outside, I'm like, these people are kind of doing this, and they're doing this, and this kind of overlaps here. And, and I've always had this mindset of collaboration, and I thought, man, what would be so amazing to see these two work together, and then this organization come into the fold. And I think it's so hard when we have these passion projects that these organizations started. That's right, and you are really fighting to survive, get your mission out there, find a way to create an impact that a lot of times you're so buried in the work you're doing, you're not necessarily looking at the person who's like in the tunnel right next to you. And so like you said, this pause allowed everybody to say, Okay, this is the time where we really need to come together and amplify the work that we're doing. And so I was just really excited, I couldn't really believe that all these organizations were sitting together at one table talking about this, and I was just waiting to see what would come from it. So I just give my little applause to that action happening, I think it really speaks to where we're at, as an industry to, like you said, to really start to bring attention to this and create some real powerful impact. And I'm excited to see what this looks like, in the future as this continues to grow.
52:40
I am too, I am too. I was just gonna say companies who are looking for this or who are eager to do this, like yours, there has to be a place to go. And that's sort of the idea of, let's just start this journey together, wherever you are, because it's so important that we get as many people on this journey and in this movement as possible.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:03
Yeah. Well, for people who are really inspired by this conversation, how can they get involved in or learn from being a part of both tourism care's or the future of tourism coalition?
53:17
Yes, well, getting involved in tourism cares, there's a couple of different ways, certainly you can join as a member, I mean, as a company or as an individual, we now have a professional membership where individuals can join. We also have events that we do in North America, we do one a year, and then we do our global summits. Those are primarily for members. But definitely if there's companies that are eager to come, just to reach out to us, but we also have an education platform. It's called the meaningful travel platform. And it's an open source platform right now for people who want to just learn from, you know, social enterprise development, in your itineraries to what's the child safe program or animal welfare policy are really looking at what climate and climate justice looks like, and tourism so that platforms are available. And then as we start to launch the meaningful map, that's certainly something that advisors and companies can get involved with. But first, you know, just shoot us an email, let me know that you're interested and we'd love to see different ways that you might be able to engage with tourism carriers, and the future tourism coalition if you are interested to just sign up as a signatory. There's a small sort of form that you go through just to put your commitment out to adhere to the 13 principles and then come into the community. So it's it's a very low barrier to entry, but it's certainly of the like minded and, and the committed, we try to talk about radical collaboration in the coalition and so we we are eager for anyone that's interested to join and be a part of that collective to push the industry better than that's certainly an open place for them to join with us.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:49
Great, thank you and I'll have the websites and everything in my show notes. So for people listening, you can just look there to easily find that. Before we wrap up. I have a series of rapid fire rapid fire ish questions just for our listeners to get to know you as a traveler a little bit more. So we'll have those in. And then that's it. So the first one is what is your favorite book or movie that offers you a travel escape or inspires an adventure?
55:20
Oh, that's a good one. I think it was early, early on. Before I went to Africa, I read a book called Dangerous beauty. And it was about a bush guide. And it was such a beautiful story. And then it led me to a few more books. But I think the dangerous beauty where we really understood from the guide's perspective, what it's like to be in the African bush, just inspired me to what pushed me to take my first trip to Africa. My first and only trip, I'm sad to say, but that is a place on earth that I find to be the most beautiful thing in the world. Yeah, there's
Christine Winebrenner Irick 55:53
something deeply spiritual and the beauty I think, I really felt so at home there the one time that I traveled as well. And I've heard that from so many people, there's just something that is so deeply connected to, to everyone that lives there. It's such a unique destination, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
56:17
My refillable water bottle, always. I think that's the one thing that I always always bring in. Now I take a filter, travel filter as well, because the plastics issue has been my thing for 15 years. So I think that's my go to always.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 56:32
Yeah, and I always tell everyone, that's the easiest and easiest first step and has such a great impact. So what has been your favorite destination?
56:45
That is a really tough question. I think you know, of course, Africa would have been at the top. But I have to say, it's tough to have a favorite. It's such a tough question. I think most people who want to give me my favorite destination are my next destination. But that's kind of a cop out. So I will definitely say that for me. It was just a travel dream. Because I'm an animal lover like I'm a huge animal not so I think Antarctica was a top top top destination and one that I felt like I was on another planet. It's a place that's so fragile, and so beautiful. And I felt like I was the farthest I've ever been in my entire life. And I think I was in fact the farthest I've ever been in my entire life from home, but the fragility of that place, and the harshness in this darkness was just remarkable. And that population of wildlife blew my mind that in the Galapagos now I'm not even telling you when I'm telling you three, but for me, it's the animals in their natural habitat is when I find my most, my highest self to see that experience. And so knowing that those places are, are holding on to those populations is incredibly important to me, but to see those animals, those penguins, and those whales and everything in the wildlife and articles just
Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:03
phenomenal. Yeah, I think that really speaks to what we need as humans is to be able to see that wildness. And so I think it's so interesting how important it is then to conserve that. And again, why travel is so important. Because once we have those experiences and witness that there's something that is awakened, that really encourages us to be an advocate for those places. So where do you still longed to visit?
58:35
Oh, boy, I think I have never been to see the group in the wild. I think Rwanda, Uganda is going to be at the very top of my list, even though I know that it's such a fragile place and the more demands on that place. But to see those animals in the wild, it's the top of my list. And I had that trip scheduled. When I was turning 50. I had that trip scheduled. And then there was a we were going to be going to the Congo. And there was a lot of unrest and some violence and we had to cancel that trip. And I've never, you know, life got in the way again, and I haven't been so to see them in the wild is definitely a dream trip and everyone that I know that's ever taken that trip has described it as just awe inspiring. So along with probably many people that are at the top of my list as soon as I can get that trip together again.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 59:24
Yeah, I agree. I also had the opportunity and it didn't work out for a myriad of reasons when I was in Uganda, but I also think that it would be unmatched. There's something about that experience. That seems again very, like healing and soulful. Meaning what do you gather? Oh, sorry, gotta get back on.
59:48
I was gonna say we've got to get those trips back together. We gotta get back on that bandwagon and make it happen.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 59:53
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been
1:00:00
You're gonna laugh, but I think it's probably Nutella. I grew up in Holland. And Nutella was a big part of my life. And many times when I'm traveling around the world, when I see Nutella I, that's my go to with a baguette or a tortilla, it fits on anything. And I see it in the most random places in the world. But I grew up with my mother making Nutella sandwiches for me, terribly, I know. But it's a weird thing. But that's kind of what I am, that brings me back to my childhood. And I know it's on every shelf and some of the roles in random places in the world. So that's kind of where I go.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:00:36
Yeah, I love that one of my very favorite things is to seek out the very unique potato chip flavors around the world. Because I've noticed there's always just very different ones. And I remember eating like shrimp and garlic flavored potato chips, like in Thailand or something. And it's just that I love it. It's such that it just really ties you to the culture in a unique way. Who was the person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
1:01:03
Oh, boy. I think it was probably my father, my father at the age of 18, got on a boat and traveled to the United States and emigrated and started a whole new life here and then was shipped out to Libya and shipped out to Greece and shipped out to these places. And growing up, I'd hear these stories. And I think he was my original World Traveler and not out of a desire. But out of necessity. He was just sent there. But the stories he would talk about really resonated with me. And he was a musician. So we play music in these places. And music from around the world was always really, really loud in my house. And I think he probably inspired me to be a traveler and to know that there's such exploration in that endeavor. So I think that's probably what instilled in me. And he dragged me all over the world kicking and screaming sometimes. So that's probably what, what did it for me, but I think he's probably my biggest influence. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:02:05
Thank you. The last one is if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past? Who
1:02:11
would it be? Well, I think it would maybe be, I think it would maybe be Jane Goodall to see the chimps through her eyes. And to know that that dedication, and that life's work has had such an impact on the world. I think an opportunity to learn from someone like that would be pretty remarkable and quite a gift. I know people who have been able to interview her or meet with her. But the singular dedication to what she's been able to do is just really impressive in it. And it's a testament to what one person can do. And the lesson that we can all do something small. You know, I often say that one small act, multiplied by billions can have an impact around the world. And certainly her dedication would be a phenomenal couple of days of travel together.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:03:07
Yeah, absolutely. I've been really listening to her podcast recently. And it's so amazing just to get to hear her stories and her voice and her love of her work. And yeah, that would be an amazing travel companion. Well, Paula, thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation, getting to speak about so many things that I'm really passionate about and passionate about sharing with others. And I appreciate your time today.
1:03:34
Christine, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for giving this topic and this important work of forum and sharing that and committing to that and having all these incredible women on your podcast. It's kind of an honor to be here with you, and anything that we can do to support together I'd love to work together in the future to
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:03:51
Thank you for listening to the Soul of Travel. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you love this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe, rate the podcast and share the episodes that inspire you with others. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome.
I am so happy you are here. You can find all the ways you can be a part of the Soul of Travel and Lotus Sojourns Community at www.Lotussojourns.com. Here you can learn more about the Soul of Travel and my guests.
You can see details about the transformational sojourns. I guide women, as well as my book Sojourn which offers an opportunity to explore your heart mind in the world through the pages of books specially selected to create any journey. I'm all about community and would love to connect.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.