Episode 154 - Jo Swann, Adventures in Borneo
When the call to adventure leads you deep beneath the ocean’s surface and into a world you never thought possible, you answer: Yes.
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Jo Swann, Co-Founder of Adventures in Borneo by Downbelow Marine & Wildlife Adventures.
Jo is a dynamic and multi-talented individual who has made significant contributions to the fields of adventure travel and personal development.
Alongside her husband, she is the co-founder of Adventures In Borneo an esteemed adventure travel company based in Malaysia. Their company stands out as a PADI 5 Star IDC Career Development Centre, providing exceptional scuba diving experiences and training.
With an impressive career spanning 33 years, Jo has established herself as a highly skilled Trusted Advisor for individuals wanting to lead exponential lives and a Travel Designer crafting unforgettable itineraries for renowned travel brands and corporate clients. Her extensive knowledge and expertise in the industry have allowed her to curate & facilitate extraordinary journeys & life experiences & transformation.
Freedom: The Ability to Get Up and Go
From a very early age, Jo was fascinated by other parts of the world. When she looks back into her life, while she doesn’t pinpoint a specific event that influenced her to travel, she sees a pattern of being inspired by stories around the world and experiencing the freedom to go.
As travelers and members of the travel industry, we can all relate to that innate knowing of wanderlust–the space that exists outside our own experience.
Jo relates this to traveling with our minds, as well; we can use our imaginations to travel to other places.
Diving: The Ultimate World of Freedom and Imagination
Jo shares that while she was never a strong swimmer growing up, the mid-nineties brought a new opportunity: Going beneath the water.
Jo took her first breaths underwater and fell in love. In 2000, Jo became a qualified diver in the UK’s freezing cold waters.
The experience of diving became a meditation; even when the only wildlife she could see underwater happened to be crayfish, she found that her exhalation through the bubbles brought her a sense of peace.
She and her husband launched Down Below, then Outbound Dive Travel.
Experiencing the magic of diving in Sabah, Malaysia, and the island of Sipadan in the early 2000s, Jo knew diving would become a part of her life–forever.
While she spent time building her outbound tour operation in the UK, it soon became clear that creating a home base in Malaysia was the right move. They decided to close their operations in the UK and focus their efforts in the area as inbound tour operators under the umbrella company, Down Below Marine & Wildlife.
“We protect what we love. We love what we understand. And we understand what we’re educated about. And I think there’s no better way to be educated about environmental and wildlife challenges than to actually experience them. ”
One of the missions of Adventures in Borneo is to teach divers and travelers about the marine ecosystem and how delicate it truly is. When you witness a place over time, you become invested in its welfare; Christine and Jo both share how important this is when structuring travel experiences.
Community-Based Tourism and Responsible Tourism in Malaysia
Jo and her team are committed to spreading the wealth of the traveler’s dollar in ways that have the greatest economic and social impacts. One of their first efforts was creating a Work for Career program, a paid internship where local people can enter the program and go from a non-diver to a registered PADI Divemaster. If the partnership remains a good fit, candidates are invited to become instructors with the program and a number of these folks are still employed with the company. One of these participants has achieved the highest PADI certification possible; another works in Macau, while others work as divemasters and dive instructors in the Maldives.
Adventures in Borneo is one of the first companies to become a zero single-use plastic company.
The company also commits to cleaning up beaches and safely removing “ghost nets,” which are the large fishing nets that wash up into the shallows and, when entangled, can destroy the coral reef. Their program has a quick response team where people are deployed and safely remove the nets to save the lives of marine life and their coral habitat.
The Journey of Self-Discovery
Launched in 2020, the Journey of Self-Discovery is a physical and psychological journey that contains a point-to-point itinerary that takes in all the wonders of Sabah. The trip includes diving to local immersive experiences on farms and in villages to white water rafting and mountain hiking, continuing through the wildlife hub in Sabah, and completing on the east coast.
But even with all these outer experiences, the real journey is inward. Jo has structured the journey to center each day on one of the chakras; travelers are encouraged to intentionally experience awe-inspiring views and experiences with a journey of self-exploration that peels back the layers of identity that so many of us have inherited.
If you represent a travel company and would like more information about leading a trip with this type of itinerary, reach out to the Down Below team.
Soul of Travel Episode 154 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Jo discuss:
Jo’s early connection to animal welfare, conservation, and travel
The connective and immersive qualities of diving
How Adventures in Borneo supports the local community
The transformational power of travel highlighted in Adventures in Borneo’s Journey of Self Discovery itinerary
Love languages in travel
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Jo Swann.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #7: Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
Sustainable Development Goal #14: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit insightvacations.com/soul to experience conscious and sustainable travel with Insight Vacations. Each tour includes a MAKE TRAVEL MATTER®️ Experience, which will teach you about your destination while also having a positive social or environmental impact on the local community.
Remember: Adopt, don’t shop! Learn more about Jo and her team’s efforts to protect the lives of stray cats and dogs in Malaysia.
Visit the Downbelow Website for more information!
Connect with Jo on LinkedIn.
Learn more about Adventures in Borneo on your favorite social media network! Facebook / YouTube / Instagram / Pinterest / Twitter.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Esme Benjamin (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 154Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.
Jo Swann is a dynamic and multi-talented individual who has made significant contributions to the fields of adventure, travel and personal development alongside her husband. She's the co-founder of Adventures in Borneo, an esteemed adventure travel company based in Malaysia. Their company stands out as a PADI, five star IDC career development center, providing exceptional scuba diving experiences and training with an impressive career spanning 33 years, Joe has established herself as a highly skilled, trusted advisor for individuals wanting to lead exponential lives and a travel designer crafting unforgettable itineraries for renowned travel brands and corporate clients. Her extensive knowledge and expertise in the industry have allowed her to curate and facilitate extraordinary journeys and life experiences and transformation. In our conversation, Joe and I talk about her early connection to animal welfare, conservation and desire to see the world she shares about the connective and immersive qualities of diving, the ways that adventures in Borneo support the local community and the transformational power of travel highlighted in their journey of self-discovery itinerary. I couldn't remember the term love language when we were chatting, but this unique and powerful journey across Borneo is definitely speaking my love language, and I cannot wait to talk to Joe Moore offline to see what magical sojourn she and I can create together. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Joe Swan.
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm very excited today to be joined by Joe Swan and she is the founder of Adventures in Borneo or down below Marine and Wildlife Adventures. And we connected, we were just reminiscing a little over a year ago in Switzerland at the Adventure Travel Trade Summit, and I'm so excited to be able to have a longer conversation than our 15 minute micro networking session that we had. Even though in that amount of time, we really had such a great connection and I think realized right away that we had some very shared passions about travel and what we thought travel could do for others and for the world. So I can't wait to get into that. Joe, thank you for joining me.
Jo: Thanks very much, Christine. It's an absolute pleasure to be here. You are an inspiration for sure.
Christine: Thank you so much. I would say likewise. Well, as we start the conversation, I'd love to just turn it over to you and give you the opportunity to introduce yourself and tell my listeners a little bit more about who you are and what you do in this space of travel right now.
Jo: Sure. Thank you. So yeah, my name's Jo Swann and I'm originally from the uk. I now live in Borneo. We're in the state of Saba in Malaysia, and we've been here for 18 years. My husband and I founded the umbrella company down below Marine and Wildlife Adventures, very long name for a company. And within that brand, we're a destination management company. So we work with travel brands, universities, schools, mainly B2B, and we offer airport to airport itineraries for those groups. But underneath that brand, we have adventures in Borneo. We kind of simplified it to make it a little bit more specific to say what we actually do and also dive down below, which is our Paddy five star career development center. And all of that is based here in Saba. So we're an inbound tour operator.
Christine: Excellent.
And we're going to get into diving in just a minute, but when I first looked at your website, I was like, oh, this is like a kid in a candy store. You have so many things. I don't know that I've ever popped onto somebody's website and seen such a comprehensive list of experiences and education on one website, but we'll get there later. But that was one thing I was really surprised by when I was learning more about the work that you do. But I would love to get to know you as a traveler and learn more about what drew you into travel initially and even into diving, and then maybe we can understand how that led you on your path to Borneo.
Jo: Yeah, great. Yeah, so I think from a very early age, freedom has always popped up in my life, and I think that what freedom looks like to me is the ability to just get up and go somewhere and travel. So from a very early age, I was fascinated by other parts of the world, and I think I've learned that through reflection because I'm not sure that there was a single episode or something that sparked a desire to travel. My family are not great explorers or adventurers. My grandma's sister had a yacht, and in my mind she traveled the world's oceans. I dunno if she actually did, but that's what was planted in my mind from an early age. But yeah, I think travel is just the ultimate freedom. So that's probably what inspired me.
Christine: I love that. And I think that is a word that I think would resonate with so many of my guests and really so many people that have that wanderlust or that sense of exploration. It's maybe not even so much about the going somewhere, but like you said, that freedom or that space that you need to feel around you or the ability to be able to just move into a new space or way of being, there's something really important about freedom as a value for, I think entrepreneurs and travelers, we all kind of gravitate towards those things because it nurses that need within us.
Jo: And I think it's innate. I think freedom is something we all desire, whether we're conscious of it or not, but like you said, it's space as well. It's that space. And even if you don't travel far, you can also travel in your mind, your imagination can travel to so many places. So yeah, I think the whole thing is based around that freedom.
Christine: And even as you were just kind of talking about freedom, I was imagining imagination that that is another, I think, characteristic of a lot of people that are maybe tuned into that sense of freedom or they find meditation or yoga or other healing modalities because it feels like it breaks you out of any confines of normal routines or expectations. And so I think, again, that value of freedom maybe is aligned with so many other seeking behaviors or curiosities about different ways of being. I would love to then learn how you discovered diving. I think that's in and of itself is a whole nother set of imagination and freedom and discovery.
Jo: Yeah, diving that's also interesting. I was never a strong swimmer. We used to at school, we used to have to go swimming once a week and I really didn't enjoy it. But then I guess it was mid nineties. I'm aging myself now, so mid nineties I decided that maybe I wasn't so comfortable on the top of the water. Let's try going beneath and see what happens down there. So I took my first breaths underwater in a swimming pool. It was about 1995. Loved it, absolutely loved it. We literally just had a tank on our back, strapped to our backs and submerged. But then it wasn't until the year 2000 that I actually became a qualified diver again. And this was in the UK freezing cold. It was Rasberry Lake. We would get excited about seeing the American crayfish as opposed to the UK crayfish just one. There was nothing to see. But yeah, I loved it, and I just found my comfort underwater. I love the sound of the bubbles. I find that so calming to hear my exhalation in the form of bubbles. And I went on. So the year 2000, I got my license, and then I just went on. I became an instructor in 2001, and we started our company down below in the year 2000. And at that time it was just called down below, and if you Google down below, you get some different things.
So we were based in the UK at the beginning, and we started outbound travel and it was outbound dive travel. And that took us all over the world to the Maldives, to Australia, Egypt. And then we stumbled across Saba, and then we decided that we loved Saba. It just had so much to offer in terms of adventure and wildlife, everything was in one small state. And of course we have Sipan Island here, which is World-class, the drop-off. We could literally, our hut was on the beach and we could literally roll off, roll out of bed onto a 600 meter wall and see hammerheads. That was just incredible. And the other end of the island slopes to 3000 meters, Sipan is an underwater volcano. So yeah, having experienced that in the early, what was it, early two thousands, I was hooked, just hooked. And now, yeah, diving is just, it's kind of one of the ultimate meditations because you are so immersed in nature with the sound of the bubbles of your breath and yeah, it's beautiful. It's another world. Yeah.
Christine: When I first experienced diving, it was secondhand, but my parents were certified as divers, and I grew up in Montana, and they would practice initially in the lake near where I lived, which was a cold, dark lake to that. And I thought I would go under there with my eyes open, and I'm like, what are they even seeing down here? This is crazy. And then eventually they were diving in Belize, which is where I got certified. Beautiful. And then I understood, right. And it's kind of one of those places you wish you didn't start there, because you're pretty spoiled when that happens. As you were explaining that, rolling out a bed to that wall, all I can see is my parents, and they would be incomplete and utter heaven if that experience.
Jo: It was incredible. And because we can still dive on sipan around the corals of Sipan, but you can't stay there anymore. So we were so fortunate to be able to those few years that you could actually stay there. And it was an incredible experience and we kind of knew it as well. It wasn't something that we took for granted. We knew it was special. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
Christine: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. So then you landed there, you experienced the diving and you already were running trips one direction. What told you to flip it and make morning for your home base?
Jo: Yeah, we were based in the UK outbound travel, and we would go to different parts of the world for different things. So whitewater rafting at the time was actually in Nepal. Wildlife was in Africa. The beaches were in the Maldives, diving was in the Maldives. And then we came to Saba, and actually it was just my husband and I en route. We were traveling from the Maldives to Melbourne, Australia, and we kind of looked at the map and went, where should we go? And when we first came here, in fact, I've written a couple of articles about this, but when we first came here, I didn't know these beautiful islands outside my window even existed because the rain was torrential.
There was a massive storm. And if you'd have told me in, I think it was 2001, that I would one day be living here, I would say no chance. No chance. But we returned a few times because we loved it so much. And then we realized we have the wildlife here, we have the mountain here, we have the ocean here, we have the whitewater rafting here, we have nature, we've got jungle, there's everything in one small state of Saba that you can visit all these places within a 10 day itinerary. And so we said, you know what? Let's bring our company here. So for a period of time, we were running from here and the uk, and we decided to give ourselves 18 months to set up the company here. And then the plan was we were six months here, six months in the uk, but in 2005, we didn't want to dive in the lakes of berry anymore. And we said, no, we'll let that one go, the UK company go, and we'll focus all of our attention here. So we officially registered the company here in 2008. Yeah.
Christine: Well, and I think one of the things when we first met, I knew a little bit about Borneo, not a lot. I had some images in my mind of the wildlife and mountains. So this was the preconceived notion I guess I had. But I also didn't realize what a wealth of experiences, like you said, we're in such a small place and to be able to bring travelers and have them experience so many things in such a short amount of time. One is obviously very convenient for our travelers, but also you don't have to be traveling as many places to have so many types of experiences, which I think now is really important. And then we'll get into a little bit later, talking more about travel as a tool for growth and transformation. But when you have all those environments, you can actually then really create something to move travelers through such a profound experience because they are being exposed and learning about so many different things in such a short amount of time. I, I'm fully on board with wanting to come and experience it myself, but it seems almost mystical or impossible and probable that such a place can exist.
Jo: I mean, you're so right. And even I've just returned from 10 weeks in Europe, and I just landed a couple of days ago, and I've been living here for 18 years. We've been visiting for 23 years, so I should be used to the place, but I landed, it was nighttime. I woke up the next day, I looked out and went, wow, wow, wow, wow. It is mystical, unbelievable. The contrast of colors, the blues, the greens, the whites. It's like an HDD screen. Yeah, it is. It's amazing.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I know we talked a little bit about diving already, but one, I want to talk about why it was important to you to set up such a vast educational program. I know I mentioned kind of being in awe of what you've created there, so why that aspect was so important, not just bringing divers to experience, but offering all of that. And then also, we talked a little bit about how kind of immersive the experience of diving is, but how do you think that allows travelers to connect more deeply when they're visiting Borneo?
Jo: I think that we protect what we love. We love what we understand, and we understand what we're educated about. And I think there's no better way to be educated to environmental and wildlife challenges, animal welfare challenges, and to actually experience it. And we're overwhelmed right now with everyone telling us what we should do, what we shouldn't do, how we should live, how we should travel. And we wanted to just simplify it a little bit and say, we can't do everything, but we can actually make an impact around where we are. So education was big for us because we really see the difference in the ocean. It's magnified by decades, coral bleaching, ocean plastics, fishing nets, and the depletion of marine life.
We've seen that hugely just in the 20 plus years that we've been here. So if we can bring people here and show them what an exceptionally beautiful place, this is above and below the ocean, because we have incredible coral reef here, beautiful soft corals, lots of fish because this is the tco. Abdul Raman Park has been protected since the seventies by the state government. So it's beautiful, but we need to keep it that way. And so if people can see it and return to the same reef every day and see some of the same marine life and realize they live here, their actual actual beings that live here, this is their home, and we can do something to help protect that. That's really impactful. That's impactful. So whether or not we consciously created that, I'm not sure, but it's created from a place of passion.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. That's so beautifully said. And I think that is what so many of us are trying to create that through line and experiences and seeing the value that it has when you create that education and that connection and that greater understanding of place when you're traveling. And not just something to see, I don't mean that by place, but really being rooted in understanding that it's someone one's home or animal's home. And like you said, when you witness it over and over, then you even become more aware. And that human side of yourself then becomes invested in this place that you've now witnessed in that way. So I love the way that you were sharing about that. And I know that you have also really worked to over the years, incorporate social enterprise initiatives into your itineraries and focus on as well community-based tourism and wildlife conservation. Can you share some examples of those initiatives and how you think they add value to your travelers, but also how they're supporting the communities?
Jo: Yeah, sure. We like to spread the wealth of the travelers dollar, and we have a few initiatives. So one program that we started when we established the company was work for a career. And so what we wanted to do is we wanted to help local people here that didn't have a great education, that don't have the money to spend on becoming a diving instructor. We wanted to give them an opportunity to get a professional qualification. So we came up with this work for a career program where local people can apply for, it's an internship, but it's a paid internship. So they do receive a salary, and the initials period is two years. And that takes someone from a non diver to a paddy dive master. And then once they've successfully completed all those programs, they're invited, if it's suitable, if they're suitable for the company, and we are suitable for them, they're invited to stay another year and become a pad instructor.
And after that, many, a number of the candidates in that program have stayed with us and still employed. In fact, our island manager is now a paddy course director, which is the highest level within the paddy system of education. And other people have gone to travel the world. One of our instructors went to work for one of the big shows in Macau as one of their underwater diving safety team, and others have gone to the Maldives. So that's really extremely rewarding. And it's my husband's passion project. He's a paddy course director, and so he leads that. So that was something that we started very early on. We were one of the first enterprises to have zero plastic within our company, and this was more than 10 years ago. We said, we are a zero single use plastic company because like I said, we see it in the ocean.
And at the time we were kind of a bit woowoo and everyone was going, oh yeah, yeah, let's see how you get on with that. But we are really proud of that. We used to, in fact, we used to find anyone guest or staff member that would bring a single use plastic item into the company. And it was like one ring it, which is, I dunno, that 20 cents or something, but it would go into a pot and then that would be donated to the animal shelter. But yeah, so single use plastic is another one. Ghost nets the big, so we have a program that ghost nets are the big fishing nets, the big trawler nets that get washed up onto the coral reef. And again, my husband created a program to teach people how to safely remove the nets, because obviously you've got certain dangers with taking sharp objects and entanglement and what have you, and also safely cutting away the animals that are trapped in those nets. And we have to have a quick response team that we send out to remove the nets, because every minute counts, the sharks, the turtles, everything gets so much marine life can get entangled in those. So yeah, so there are a kind of big things. So it's plastics, ghost nets, work for a career. Yeah,
Christine: Thank you. And that's such a diverse range of projects. And I think the thing that I love about that, and this is something that we often talk about on the podcast as well, is people finding something to be invested in that speaks to themselves as travelers. So people coming to see you, one thing might really be of interest to them while another might not be. And it's okay that one is and one isn't, but that when you have so many things that you're involved in, you really can engage travelers and employees and community in different ways to get them involved. And I really encourage travelers to do an assessment of what is important to 'em so that they can actively seek that out when they're traveling. But that's such a great example of how they could find something that would be a match to their interests.
Jo: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Christine: Hey, it's Christine interrupting this episode for just a moment to share about an experience you can join that will make travel matter. I am passionate about deepening our travel experiences, which goes beyond our own experience and moves to looking at how travel can be more impactful and equitable. I love learning about businesses that make it easier for you to find and enjoy meaningful travel insight vacations. The premium guided tour brand under the Travel Corporation offers conscious travel experiences available on their itineraries across various popular destinations. These make travel matter experiences are chosen with great care based on the positive social or environmental impact they have on their communities, and those who experience them using a proprietary assessment tool endorsed by industry experts and developed exclusively for insight vacations, make travel matter experiences are assessed against a robust set of criteria directly tied to the UN global goals.
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I know even I can be overwhelmed when it comes to finding travel that truly creates a positive impact. And this makes the selection process so easy. Visit Insight vacations.com/soul to find the list of trips that are available. Now, again, you'll want to visit Insight Vacations, INS igh HT vacations.com/souls for more information, thank you to the Travel Corporation and their amazing family of tour brands, Trafalgar, insight, vacations, cost Saver, Brendan Vacations, luxury, gold, and Contiki who are joining me for season five as a founding sponsor. Now, let's jump back to our soulful conversation. And I know you mentioned a little bit earlier too, that you really have a vested interest in animal welfare and a variety of projects. And you mentioned to me really wanting to support cats and stray cats and dogs, especially. We were talking a little before we jumped on here about what a role that has played for you in your life.
And I mentioned I was just traveling with my kids, and that was something as we traveled in the us you don't see stray cats and stray dogs like you do in other places that we visited, especially where we were in Greece and where we were in Italy. And they are super animal lovers, and they would've had 77 pets if they were allowed to have taken the ones with them that they were connected to. But I also shared with you that my middle daughter had at one point seen a cat that was injured, and her emotional ability to let go and leave that animal there when we couldn't really do anything was really difficult. And so we really had to talk about how we can support, where we can create change, what we could commit to in our own lives with this new awareness to create an impact. But I would love to talk to you a little bit about what role that has played in your life and what you've done now to serve that passion in yourself.
Jo: Yeah, yeah. I understand your daughter's heartache over that. It is real. It's real. Yeah. I've always been drawn to cats. Maybe I was a cat in a past life, but I've always been drawn to cats, wild cats and domesticated cats. And we, there's a, gosh, this would fill more than an hour itself, but we built a shelter, a cat shelter, and we donated it to SPCA, which is the protection, the Saba, protection for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in Saba. And then I became involved as a volunteer in 2016. And to this date, I still have an active role there.
As you mentioned, stray cats and dogs are an issue here, and we are not used to seeing it. I didn't even know if I wanted to live here when I, coming from the UK where animals are part of our family and we don't see that sort of hardship. At first, I thought, gosh, how am I going to bear this? But then I figured they're better off with me playing a role within their life than not. And I have this phrase, and it's what I live by in this field, and we can't change the world, but we can change someone's world, we can change an individual's world. And if we just do that time and time and time and time again, then it makes a huge difference. So yeah, we have the cat shelter. We donated that to SPCN, that was all from company funds. So company profits, we pile in to these passion projects because the orangutans and the elephants here, they get quite a lot of money.
But the stray cats and dogs, they're not so iconic, so they kind of get pushed aside. But what can people do? Because we do want to help. Everyone wants to help, I think, to spread the message of adopt. Don't shop wherever you live. Even if you live in the UK or the states where you don't see, you don't see these stray animals. They still exist. Shelters are just overrun with unwanted animals. So I still know people that don't have that kind of awareness. They're good people, but they're looking to buy breeds of animals, dogs and cats. And I just think adopt, don't shop. Let's not sustain this trade of animal breeding when we've just got so many animals in shelters. And that's a really powerful message. And what I find is when I explain to my friends and my family this concept of unwanted animals, they understand and that it just helps. They just shift their perspective. So yeah, that's what we can all do.
Christine: Yeah, thank you for sharing about that. And I do think that's one thing, depending on where you're coming from when you travel, like you said, it's something where we haven't seen before, haven't experienced and don't exactly know what to do. And so I think it's really important to really speak about it and not let it be something that we just say, oh, that's the way things are in this place or that place. And again, also, like you said, we might perhaps not be able to change everything about that circumstance, but we can choose the change that we want to create. And I do think that's important because even in any change, we'll become overwhelmed and tend to not act if we feel like we have to make this vast change. And so I think it's important.
Jo: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Christine: Well, when we first met, I would love to jump into the thing that we first really got fired up in talking about, which was a itinerary that you were sharing with me because you knew that I was really passionate about transformational travel and using travel as a way for people to grow and to heal. And you shared your journey of self-discovery itinerary with me, which I was immediately in love with. So I would love to talk more about this beautiful itinerary and kind of hear how it differs from some of the other things we've been talking about already, and get an understanding about how you envision combining travel with yoga and meditation and breath work and nature and community, which are all of my very favorite things. So I can't wait to talk about this with you.
Jo: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I remember that. I remember, because we'd just launched that journey of self-discovery during Covid. We'd run one of those programs just before. It was like March, 2020, and then everything was shut down. So yeah, journey of self-discovery. So it's a physical and psychological journey. So it's a physical journey because it's a point to point itinerary that starts in Cote Blu and takes in all of the wonders of Saba. So we start at the ocean and we go scuba diving. Then we go into the countryside, into the valleys, and we stay with local people and learn more about their culture. And we see how pineapples are grown, and we cross suspension bridges, and we do a little bit of whitewater rafting. And then we go up into the mountains onto Pineapple Ridge, and we have glorious views of Mount Ki Bali. We do some hiking, swim in the river, and then continuing west to east, we come to the wildlife hub of Saba.
So we go searching for orangutans and elephants and wild cats. And then we finish up in Sander can, which is on the East coast, which used to be, it's a historical town. It used to be the capital of Saba. And now there's some really nice views, ocean views, and some older buildings coming from the uk. They're not that old, about a hundred years old, but for here, it's quite old. So yeah, it's a physical journey, taking in the awe of Saba, stunning sunrises, stunning sunsets, ocean mountain, wildlife. But it's also a journey within, because what I did was I based the inward journey around the chakras. And so every day, the classic itinerary is eight nights, nine days, but every day is dedicated to one of the chakras. So it could be the root chakra. So it's all about adventure, or it could be the sacral about pleasure.
What do you enjoy to do? Are we going to dance? Are we going to scuba dive? Are we going to cook cooking classes, crafting? And by the end of the journey? So we weave in through this incredible awe inspiring journey, we weave in this self-exploration, and we are peeling back the layers that have kind of just been put on us throughout our life to peel back our true nature. And then at the end, we ask a question, and the question is, who are you and who are you? Now that you've experienced so much awe, whether that's visual, kin, kinesthetic, or human kindness, what has that revealed within you? And it's incredible. We've organized a few of these itineraries and they're truly transformational, and it's amazing to be part of it. And what we've started to do now is we've started to work with travel companies who are using the format, the structure of this itinerary, but they're blending in their specialty.
So their specialty could be anything from yoga to meditation, to breath work, to even, we've got a really exciting one that we're working on now with an incredible company that looks at, by the end of it, you are encouraged to develop a life vision, really powerful, really powerful stuff where you deep dive into different categories of your life and come up with how do I actually want to spend my days? What's important to me? So yeah, it's an amazing structure that it's an amazing structure that has lots of flexibility and possibility for creativity within it. So yeah, it's really, really exciting.
Christine: I just love it so much. I mean, like I said, it touches to all of my personal travel values, but also, you mentioned the word awe so many times, and I think that's something that is misunderstood in the value of awe. And again, I think it maybe goes right up there with freedom. There's the awe is what changes your life. There's just something so humanizing about awe, and I feel like this could be its own podcast series is trying to understand what that is. But when you witness others experiencing awe, you see them both come alive and fall apart at the same time. It's horrible, but it's the best thing ever.
Jo: Yeah, it's goosebumps, right? And I think it's a sense, the intuition, the sense that's so deep within us that's there in all 7.8 billion of us. It's there, but it's layered. There's just so many layers that it's suppressed. And when we are immersed, taken out of our home environment and we're put in a completely different environment with different people, that awe that we're experiences is it resonates. And yeah, the goosebumps, the emotion, there's no denying it. It's real. Yeah, it's real. And there aren't often, there are just no words, and the people are just in silence. We don't have words to express that, but we know it's a knowing and this place is made for it.
Christine: Well, as I already was gushing, just as I saw behind your shoulder, for those of you listening, you won't know, but it is awe inspiring.
Jo: If I move, people can see it. There you go. There's
Christine: There. So you'll have to pop over to YouTube so you can see behind Joe's shoulder. But I think the other thing too, then, as you mentioned, using the chakra journey as this kind of way to move through, then I think what I love about that so much is a lot of times we have these really powerful experiences in travel, but we don't have a way to integrate them back into our lives. And if you are literally moving through the journey within yourself one place at a time, you're kind of automatically building in that integration and that reflection while you're doing that personal exploration. But there's a way to tap back into that in your own self later. And so I can imagine that that is also really powerful and then long lasting as well.
Jo: And actually, that's a great insight that you have because the transformation takes time. It takes time. And when we return home, we are kind of prediction machines. We go back to what's familiar, and we will default to what's familiar unless we support ongoing change. So a really important part of this program is that it doesn't stop when people go back home because as we know, home hasn't changed. We've changed, but home hasn't changed. So we have to support people throughout that transition back home because it'll take time and then encourage mentorship. And so many people that have joined us for our itineraries have then gone on to work in, especially the youth groups that come to us have returned home and career changes have happened. They've reeducated in another field. So it's truly transformational. Truly.
Christine: Yeah. And I think for me, that's where there's just so much potential and importance in travel. And I think especially right now and in the past three years, there's been so many conversations about can we still travel? Like you said, what's the right way to travel? How do we ask the questions we need to ask to evaluate what we should be doing moving forward? And I just know that the experience that you've just described and the result of those experiences are really the answers to the questions in the first place. And so I think we can't hold back from sharing these kind of experiences. And I think people that are creating and designing travel now are really understanding this deeper possibility that exists within travel.
Jo: Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Christine: Well, I appreciate so much this conversation, Joe. It has definitely gone too quickly. I loved learning about your journey. I always am excited to talk about where we ended in this conversation. Before we go, if people are curious to learn more about the experiences you offer or visiting Borneo, how would be best for them to connect with you or other businesses that are inspired by what we've talked about and want to design something for themselves with you?
Jo: Sure, yeah, thank you. I think our website is the hub, the Go-to place down below adventures.com. And our Instagram is actually very interesting because they're posting every day live things that are happening, the wildlife that we're seeing, the underwater experiences, and that's adventures under Borneo, that's on Instagram. But from the website you can also see all of our social links. So yeah, probably those two are the good place. But Instagram's fun. Even I look up, when I was in the UK for 10 weeks, I was following the Instagram. What are they up to today? What are they seeing? Yeah.
Christine: Well, yeah, like you said, there's so much that happens on a daily basis that are seeing and discovering. Before we go, I have a few rapid fire questions, which I know you're a listener to the podcast, so these won't be surprise for you. Let's jump into those. The first is, what are you reading right now?
Jo: So I'm a bookworm. I'm reading The Big Leap by Guy Hendricks. I dunno if you're familiar with that. Oh, oh my gosh. Fascinating. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I'm reading that. Okay,
Christine: Thank you. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel? My
Jo: Yoga mats. My hands are Yoga Mat.
Christine: We didn't even get to talk about them yet. That'll
Jo: Be another podcast.
Christine: It'll be, and they're beautiful. So I will put a link in the show notes because I was just drooling over them actually before we've gone to this call. So to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is somewhere that you might still like to Sojourn
Jo: Portugal. I went there for the first time last month, and I love it. Yeah, so I am actually planning to go back next year for maybe a little sojourn. Yeah.
Christine: Great. Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Jo: That would be Joy Adamson. She was an author, conservationist. She was born, gosh, well, she died I think in 1970 or early 1970s, but her work was just tremendous. She wrote the book Born Free, and it was about big cats, so she would rehabilitate big caps in South Africa, and she was just so brave and so bold, and just such a woman of nature and adventure and freedom. So yeah, joy Adamson.
Christine: Thank you. I love learning about people that I had forgotten or hadn't heard before, and there's so many incredible women throughout history who have been great explorers and conservationists and inspirations. I think that's another podcast waiting to be.
Jo: And do you know what her husband, George, my friend and I wrote to him when we were about 12 years old, and just told him what an incredible inspiration him and his wife had been for us. So we hand wrote him a letter to his ranch in South Africa, and he wrote back, actually, we have a written, he's Dead now, but yeah. So not only incredible people, but kind and yeah. So that's special.
Christine: That is really special. Thank you for letting us know that. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been,
Jo: Do you know the banana leaf food? Do you have that? Yeah, so Banana Leafs, actually, we have two restaurants here that serve the incredible vegetarian and vegan foods, literally on a banana leaf. So there's no utensils, there's no plastic. It's all nature. And I first had that in India in the nineties, and so it's something that I treat myself to here because it's a specialty. But yeah, throws me back to traveling in India in the nineties. Yeah,
Christine: I love it. I was just in Mexico City with my daughter, and we went a place that had tacos, and they served them in corn husks just as the plates. And at first she was like, this is so unusual. I was like, oh, this is so great. I've never, I've had stuff in Banana Leafs, but never in the corn husk before, besides a tamale. But not just does the plate. The next is if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Jo: It would be Moley from the Jungle Book. It would, because I remember, and oh my gosh, I dunno how old I was, a kid going to see the Jungle book, the movie at the cinema and moley. I just wanted to be moley. That was it. And so I think Adventures with Mogley would be incredible.
Christine: It might be a lot of trouble, but they would be really incredible.
Jo: They would be a lot of trouble.
Christine: Well, the last one, soul of Travel is for recognizing women in the industry who are creating change. Who is one woman you admire and would love to recognize in this space?
Jo: Actually do Cheryl Strayed. Do you know the woman? She's not specifically in the travel industry, but she's a change maker, and she wrote a book called Wild about her journey, her hiking trip. And that was inspirational for me because I thought, I'm a runner. I used to be a competitive trail runner, and I would be very afraid of being alone on the trails. And there was this woman, Cheryl, who hiked, I forget, you might know the, I've always forget the name of the trail, but it took weeks and she was alone, and she said, and it wasn't that she wasn't afraid. She was afraid, but she chose to be brave. And when I read her book, I thought, huh, we can choose not to run those stories in our mind. And that was profound for me because I thought, well, I can also choose not to run stories in my mind and be brave. So she was inspirational and she continues to be a change maker, so yeah.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. She's one of my favorite writers and someone who the universe will someday plop her on the other side of the Zoom screen, I hope.
Jo: Well, lemme be the observer. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah.
Christine: Yeah. And that moment, and that part of the story was definitely something for me. I just remember feeling huddled there in that tent thinking I now or I would've been done. But to continually choose to be brave. And it's something in your business as an entrepreneur too. There's all these moments where you're like, that is something I haven't yet done before. That is something really intimidating. I'm not sure I'm the person for that job. And when you own your own business, you are the person for that job. And so calling on that bravery is something that's really important. So I love that. Brought that into the conversation. Yeah. Well, thank you again so much for being here. I hope we'll have a part two follow up, and I also really hope that we will have a time shared together in Borneo journeying with a group of travelers, because I think it will be a beautiful, beautiful experience.
Jo: Thank you, Christine. I've enjoyed this so much, and yeah, we just scratched the surface, didn't we?
Christine: Always.
Jo: Thanks so much.
Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel, presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.
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