Episode 159 - Tara Busch
When you visit another place, group, or community, be a guest. The act of intentionally approaching travel with purpose and kindness makes your travel more conscious as you honor the collective of humanity.
In this episode of the Soul of Travel Podcast, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Tara Busch, Founder and CEO of Conscious Travel Collective.
Tara was raised in California, the only child to a fearless single mother who gave her lots of rope to explore in her backyard on her own. Through a foreign student exchange program with a family in France, Tara’s experience of travel exposed her to three important things: The world is a big place with room for all kinds of people, not to believe what she heard but to discover on her own, and that connection can be found in unlikely places–such as with people even when we don’t share a language.
Tara started Conscious Travel Collective with a mission of doing right by the destination and giving travelers an authentic experience, and when she looked closely, what she was really doing was crafting opportunities for connection. She decided to create trips that take travelers to amazing places around the world and introduce them to the incredible people who embody the spirit of their home while facilitating opportunities for them to share their home and heritage with travelers in a way that honors its traditions and positively impacts the communities, the travelers, and the planet.
Madame “Butter”Fly: Finding kindness and connection with foreign exchange experiences
When Tara was twelve years old, her family entered a foreign exchange student program and welcomed a young woman named Aline into their home. This opened up a doorway for Tara to get to know someone from a different culture, with a different language and set of experiences; Tara shares fondly on the podcast the deep bonds she created with both Aline and her family. She now shares that the thirty-year friendship she’s forged with Aline and her family, especially after Tara’s trip to France to spend time with them when she was younger, are among her most treasured relationships. Aline’s family fondly calls Tara “Madame Butterfly” because of her enjoyment of French butter.
Connection and community truly came alive with this partnership and the intentional, meaningful travel that came along with the program.
Tara shares that when she entered the travel space professionally, she saw an opportunity for non-performative, authentic experiences in which travelers could make connections through natural and intentional interactions. She believes that the right circumstances can be cultivated to facilitate these types of connections.
Values-Driven Travel Business and Humanity as Collective
Tara founded the Conscious Travel Collective on the foundation of the value of shared ownership and a commitment to making the world better for all. While it is difficult to be a “supporter of all things,” it’s important to choose ways we can and will make changes.
One anecdote about a trip Tara took with her mother to explore local cheese farms, she knows that this personal introduction led to more intentional buying. “If you have a personal experience, you’re much more likely to be that caretaker going forward.”
Be Curious While Traveling
In this episode, Tara and Christine explore the tangible ways in which travelers can lean into deference, curiosity, kindness, and reflection to create safe and meaningful shared experiences with members of host communities. Seeing ourselves as guests—rather than as travelers entitled to certain experiences—can make a tremendous difference in the positive impact we make while traveling. Re-educating travelers to understand privilege and improve respect will make a significant shift in the travel landscape.
“Rather than letting the differences be something that maybe you feel uncomfortable with, be curious.”
Soul of Travel Episode 159 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Tara discuss:
Tara’s earliest travel experiences and hopping on a plane by herself at the age of six
Crossing the Atlantic and becoming a part of what has become her extended family in France
Deep connection and traveling in a way that aligns with travel values
Creating companies aligned with the value of connection
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Tara Busch.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #11: Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit Conscious Travel Collective to discover private travel experiences for small groups seeking meaningful connection.
Connect with Tara on your favorite social media network: Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn
Visit insightvacations.com/soul to book your next meaningful vacation.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Esme Benjamin (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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The Lotus Book Sojourn
Lotus Sojourns offers transformational travel experiences for women, as well as being a hub for a global community of women. The Lotus Book Sojourn is our virtual book club created to inspire travel, create cultural awareness, and offer personal growth experiences from the comfort of your home (or wherever you may be lucky enough to be in 2024!). In this year-long journey, we will read a new book every other month, which will offer you the opportunity to have many of the same types of experiences you would have on a Sojourn and create a space for personal awareness and transformation. Lean more about the Lotus Book Sojourn here.
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Soul of Travel Episode 159 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the soul of Travel.
Tara Busch started Conscious Travel collective with a mission of doing right by the destination and giving travelers an authentic experience. But when she looked closely, she found what she was really doing was crafting opportunities for connection. Tara wants travelers to feel what she has felt while traveling to sit at the table with real people and to find connection within themselves and with others Through meaningful travel, Tara decided to create trips that take you to amazing places around the world and introduce you to the incredible people that embody the spirit of their home, to facilitate opportunities for them to share their home and heritage in a way that honors its traditions and positively impacts the communities, the travelers, and the planet. You'll hear from this conversation how connection has been her life's journey, so it's no wonder that the business she is leading is mastering the art of connection. In our conversation, Tara shares about
Christine: Her earliest travel experiences, even hopping on a plane by herself at the age of six to crossing the Atlantic and becoming a part of what has become her extended family in France. As a teenager, we bond over a shared passion for deep connection and traveling in a way that honors our values in creating companies that do the same. She was a good sport to let me dive into all of the beautiful copy on her website and use that as a framework for our discussion. The Conscious Travel Collective is a wonderful example of the type of business we can create when we lead with our heart. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Tara Busch.
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Today I'm so excited to be joined by Tara Busch, who is the founder and CEO of Conscious Travel Collective. And we met in the virtual world as many of us have met recently, and we are a part of a few different women's travel communities, and I constantly was gravitating towards your little square on the Zoom screen and wanted to learn more about you. And we were lucky to have met in New York when I was visiting earlier this year, although that still somehow seems like multiple years ago, but it was just this year. But I am so glad to have you here today to talk about your work and to really talk about the impact we can have through travel.
Tara: Thank you so much. That's such a kind introduction. Yeah, I'm very excited to be here as well and love all the spaces that we share together. It's always nice to have this familiarity that you feel that you really know someone from seeing them all the time and yet, yeah, it's almost always been virtual. But yeah, our little moment meeting in New York was great and I'm really happy to be having this conversation today. Thank you for inviting me.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. Well, as we begin the conversation, Tara, I'd love to actually just turn it over to you to let you introduce yourself and tell my listeners a little bit about who you are and a little bit about Conscious Travel collective.
Tara: Sure. Yeah. Well, so I guess to tell the short story, I really fell in love with travel at a young age. I was able to kind of explore a lot on my own. My mom was very brave and let me go out in our backyard and into the town or the next town over. So finding my way around the world and discovering my interests through getting out and about was always something that it really called to me. I love maths and I love to intentionally get lost and find your way around was really a fun way to use your imagination, explore. And then I had a really transformational experience as a child where we had an exchange student and that opened my eyes in a huge way to international travel and connecting with people from totally different backgrounds. So starting Conscious Travel Collective was really about putting travelers in touch with those kinds of experiences, meeting people in their home or at their table or in their community in these kind of small, very personal ways.
And so it's really about bringing people together and letting the local people tell the story of their home. So when you're traveling somewhere, you can connect with that place through people and through building relationships with them. I think that gives us a lot more meaning and a deeper way to explore. And we do specialize with small groups, so everything is private tailored design for the group, but ideally, we like to put together trips for groups that are between six to 12 people. It's kind of like the magic number. We've certainly designed trips for solo travelers or couples, but where we're really want to establish our niche is in these small groups where people are coming together to meet with local folks and having these experiences where they can really open up and draw on the magic that can happen in a group. So yeah, that's the short story.
Christine: I would actually love to go back and talk a little bit more about that experience you had when you said you had a Ford Exchange student and that really kind of opened your eyes, and then I know you were able to travel and travel with them to visit their family. And I think as someone growing up in a small community in rural Montana, the foreign exchange students that would come through were so interesting to me because we did not have really any diversity in the community. I was really intrigued to hear their stories. I mean, just the fact that they could speak to languages was something that seemed completely unrelatable because that's not something that we grow up in the United States learning multiple languages. Most of the students coming to our school from Germany for instance, also spoke German, English, French, maybe another language on top of that. And so I know for me that was also something that really was one of the first things that made me think what else is happening out in the world. But I would love to hear about your experience and how that really opened your eyes to what travel could offer.
Tara: Yeah, I love talking about this. I have such a special place in my heart for the foreign exchange program. I know so many people when you bring it up, they have a personal connection to it that this is something really wonderful that a lot of us have connected with. But for me, we had a student, her name is Elene. She was coming from France and I was 12 years old when she spent the summer with us. And I grew up as an only child in a single parent household. So it was just my mom and I and to have someone else come and spend the summer was having a family member or sister or somebody for the first time. It was just such this cool novel experience. And then add to that that she was bringing her unique background and I hadn't spent time with people from abroad.
I hadn't traveled abroad at all myself. So it was a huge eye-opener, like you were saying. She would tell us about how she was taking English and she was specifically taking American English classes versus British English. And this blew my mind. There's a distinction. So all those kinds of little things when you're encountering people from different cultures, of course there's dozens of stuff like this happening all the time. And she and I would go out and about the two of us together and explore. She was four years older than I was, and so she's 16, I'm 12. And the Exchange program had also coordinated a bunch of activities like this is southern California, so maybe we would go to Hollywood one day or go to the desert and I would join her for these activities. So we became really close over the summer and it was course huge tears and everyone's just devastated at the end of the summer when she had to go home.
But we made a promise that we'd see each other again. And she did. She came back the next year without the program and just stayed with us for four or five weeks roughly. And then she and I got on a plane together and I went and spent five weeks with her family and her parents had with a group of friends and cousins, there was probably 20 people had arranged for this summer home. So we flew in, we went to the town that she grew up in. We were there for two or three days, and then we went over to the beach house, the summer house, and I think Alene, our student was the only one that really spoke English. There was a little bit of English here and there, but by the time I left, I just felt like these people were my family. I loved them.
I had an amazing time. I had definitely found that connection can really build and grow and become something that feels deep, deeply rooted to them. Even when we couldn't speak, just the interactions of being together and feeling so loved, they had a little pet name for me as Madame Butterfly because I was obsessed with the French butter. It was the best thing I'd ever tasted, and I think they would laugh about how much butter I was putting on my Britt, but just these little kindness, they noticed the things that I liked and they were so sweet and loving and attentive and fun, and we played games and went swimming and it was a blast. So I felt really close to them. And at this time, I'm 13, I'm coming back home at the end of the summer just before school starts, and it was the summer going into eighth grade and what a gift this was to see how big the world is, how much space there is for different kinds of people, different ways of living.
I think I came back a 10 times more confident kid than when I had left. And Alene and I have stayed in touch. It's been nearly 30 years, and we see each other at least once, if not twice a year. She now has two daughters and my husband and I are the godparents to her daughters. They come and spend a month in the summer and he and I usually will go in the spring and visit them. And so my mother's actually going to go this Christmas and spend two weeks with Lene and her family, and they're our family. These people from this little kind of chance encounter. Again, I don't speak French. Her family has not learned English over these years, but we have this 30 year bond and we're just drawn to each other and love each other with just this sense of connection and this feeling. So yeah, amazing experience.
Christine: Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. That's such a beautiful story. And I can only imagine what it would've been like for you being an only child, like you said with your mother and then going and all of a sudden being immersed in this huge family experience that in and of itself must've been a bit of culture shock. And then to have a language barrier and be in a foreign country, but then to feel that sense of community and connection and how powerful that can form so quickly. Like you said, knowing you, I know that that connection and community is really important, but hearing that story, I can see where that was really a base for knowing that that's something that can be created through intentionally created travel experiences.
Tara: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I kind of going through life and growing up and traveling with friends or doing things, as I'm starting to go out into the world on my own, I realize that it's not always like that. When you travel, there's certain ways that you can travel and you're not always going to have that kind of experience. And so as I entered the travel industry professionally and started thinking much more deeply about these things, then there was an opportunity, exactly like you said, to think about, okay, how do we achieve that? Because there's a lot of things that I think can feel performative or can feel inauthentic. Authentic is such this buzzword in travel, but there's a reason why people are looking for that because you can feel the difference. You can feel when something is kind of going through the motions or when it's real. And so I spent a ton of time thinking about what does it take to have that real kind of interaction? And I don't believe there's necessarily a guarantee that that's going to happen, but there's certainly a way I think you can very intentionally cultivate the right circumstances and allow and see what happens. But that was always what I had been after.
Christine: Yeah, I agree with that fully. And I love how you just were talking about it because when I started my company, I reflected on what are the experiences that always stick with me? What are the things I think about that bring me the most joy? What is the thing that has left the most lasting impression? And it would always be connection. It would always be these kind of unexpected moments, much like you explained where in my mind, I can never remember if we were speaking English or not likely we weren't. But somehow in my mind, there was this really clear exchange of words and intimacy and just these moments that are so powerful. And it didn't really matter exactly where we were or anything else that was happening, but I really treasured those connections. And interestingly, you and I were just on a call kind of talking about our year and in the women's work community that we're both a part of, we had set a year a word intention and mine was joy.
But as I had looked back over my year and even there thinking about what brought me joy, it was moments of connection and actually being out in the world and seeing people like yourself and really feeling these relationships come to life off of Zoom was really important and what brought me joy. So I just really love that that is this space that we're trying to recreate for our guests more than anything. I want someone to come back and have had that treasured moment where they really connected with someone and that that's going to be the thing they're going to carry with them always. And they might not even remember where they connected with that person, but they're going to remember that moment of connection.
Tara: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so funny too, I was thinking about this with your comment about joy, but then upon reflection, the joy comes from connection from being able to give the in-person hugs. Because I think when it comes to travel, if you tell people, yeah, we're all about creating connection, this is really what we're doing. First certain segment of people, they might go, perfect, that's what I want. But for a lot of people, they kind of think, I'm looking to really have a deep meaningful experience, or I'm looking to have fun or I want to go off the beaten path, or these different things come to light. But upon reflection after, it's really about the people that they need, the encounters, the human to human spaces that we're in. And so there's something about being in a position like you and I are in where we're trying to think two steps ahead or four steps ahead and kind of say what did they want to come back feeling?
How do they want to reflect on this experience a month or a year or 10 years later? What's going to really be lasting and have that impact? And it's not always the thing that we think that it is. We might name it one thing initially, but then really you think about it and it's something else. And so I love that there's so many people and with the spaces you and I share, there's clearly hundreds of them. There's so many people out there that are creating travel for others with these deep intentions in mind of how do we put in the pieces so that they're going to have those really deeply meaningful, impactful experiences that maybe they don't even realize they're looking for.
Christine: Well, I think to build on that, I know one of the things that also drew me to wanting to know about your work is your focus on your values and your commitment to your values in your company. And I think when I first started my company, I wanted to be that bold about my values, and I kept hearing, you should actually maybe just kind of sneak those in, build those in, but don't tell people that's your values because if they don't align with your values, then you're turning away travelers. And at this point in the game, you want all the travelers you can get. And I was like, oh, do okay. Yeah, that sounds like good advice. You're right. You're right. And then at some point, I was just really dove into that sentiment. I was like, I don't think that's true. One, I only run four or five trips a year, and much like you, six to eight travelers, I'm like, that's really very few people.
And I'm like, I am very sure there's enough people out there who have similar values who want this type of trip that I can freely share that this is what I'm trying to create. And if it doesn't speak to them, that's actually great because I really want people who are going to embrace what I'm trying to create. And so that was a huge shift for me, but something that when I saw how you talked about travel, I was like, man, she's doing it. She's doing the thing I wanted to do. So it really empowered me to be more honest about what I wanted to create. So I'm thankful for that. But what I would love to do is talk more about values. I think both as businesses and as travelers, it's really important to know your values. I think sometimes this comes into your mission and vision when you're creating your brand, but I think it's really something more than that.
And so what I would love to do is talk about your company's values. And as I told you, I was looking on your website and I'm like, man, this is really speaking to me and I would love to just explore these with you. I talk about out what kind of experiences exemplify these values in your company, maybe what kind of experiences you had in the past that made you realize I want to do something differently that made you come up with this list of values in the first place. So what I'm going to do is just kind of read through them and then we'll have a little conversation and see what comes up with each of these values that you've shared. So the first one is humanity as a collective must do everything possible to ensure the wellbeing of all people, places, and cultures today and for the future.
Tara: Yeah. Well, thank you for the kind words on being brave. I don't know that it feels like the best business decision at times. And other times it's like, yes, definitely. This is 100% the thing. And clearly from the name Conscious Travel Collective, we're not shying away from, there's a big time mission, vision driven behind everything we're doing. But yeah, so that particular statement, it's funny because I think that, again, this really goes back to connection when we're thinking that we need to collectively, humanity needs to be caring for each other and for our spaces, our places, our people, and our planet. And I think that it's hard. We're really inundated with so much information, so much news. It's overwhelming and it's hard to kind of be an advocate for all things. But when you have an opportunity to have an encounter, have a little bit of education, have that little bit of personal connection with something, then it can change your behavior in a way.
So for example, I was traveling, I was doing some site visits, some research in Italy last year with my mother, and we visited this small local farm where the cows are free range, and we were having lunch with the family that runs the farm and the cows are just walking by outside the window and poking their head. And it was really cute. But it's wonderful to see things like that up close and personal, and you can really have this sense, this feeling, this connection with how different this farm is being operated versus factory farm or something. And I don't know what my mother's cheese buying habits were before this visit. I mean, I can guess, but I know for sure that she has a whole new kind of appreciation for what goes into caring for animals from that experience and from meeting these people, hearing about what they went through during Covid to try to keep their farm alive when they couldn't sell fresh cheese and the cows needed to be milked, this was a situation that has to happen and what do we do with all this extra milk that we have?
And they ended up getting into aged cheese just out of pure necessity during this time. But it's these kinds of personal introductions I think that maybe can lead to some of those baby steps. You visit a beautiful preserve where you see the way that the land that's been intentionally set aside is supporting a whole ecosystem. Maybe you have a little bit more appreciation for supporting parks or collecting your trash when you leave baby steps for things. But I think that for most people, not out of any lack of care, but really just the overwhelm with everything else there is in life that if you have a personal experience, you're much more likely to be that caretaker going forward.
Christine: Yeah, and I think the first part of that too, the humanity as a collective is something you have to experience by traveling because you can't really understand the collective nature tell you move outside of what I mean. I think it's easy, especially now we can see everything through social media and television and in a way that growing up for me, I definitely didn't have that experience. I had two television stations and we had a super small library and my knowledge about the rest of the world, it was very curated for me. It wasn't as vast as it is today, but even so very similar to you, I had my daughters on a farm in Italy the summer, and one of the things that was that experience of tying the collective together, there was another family and their daughter started talking with my middle daughter, and their names were both Ella and they were both the same age and she was from Australia, and they just started chatting and chatting.
And it was one of those things where you just felt kind of like the world becoming closer for them. It was uncanny that they could have the same name and be the same age and be from all the way around the world from one another and be at the same farm at the same time. And it was something I think that really will allow them to see the interconnectedness of who we are as a collective. And then similar, the experience of seeing where food comes from in a way that's different from our experience and tasting something like that. My oldest daughter, even from that experience, we had mozzarella somewhere after that and she was like, it'll never be as good as it was there again, will it? I said, no. They were literally pulling it. It was still warm out of the water from when they made it.
I said, no, it will never be that good again, I'm sorry. But then they understand and what it takes to be this person in this place and how similar things are and how different they are and the respect we need to pay to everything, especially when you see the roots of a process of growing food and providing food that we are really disconnected with in our culture. So I love that experience. The next of the values that you share, this is one that is always in my mind when I'm traveling, but travel is a privilege and must be conducted in a way to ensure the greatest benefit for local communities with respect shown for natural environment. Local and indigenous peoples travel should not come at the expense of people today or in the future. And I know that echoes kind of the first value, but this idea that travel is a privilege, I really always try to have that as my mantra. And when I'm going somewhere, I just went to the Amazon and I remember getting on the airplane. I'm like, I'm in Denver right now. I'm going to be in Peru when I put my head on a pillow tonight. What a miracle, one that it's possible to do that, and two, that I'm given the gift of being able to experience that. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about the idea of travel as a privilege, which I think creates a lot of balance in the exchange of travel.
Tara: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that particularly if you're holding an American passport, you really have a lot of privilege you may not even recognize and all other forms of privilege, it's really important to take a close look at that and to have an understanding of what you're able to do that other people are not, and to have a greater appreciation and to be more respectful as you use that privilege. I heard a conversation recently where someone was talking about not just privilege, but that travel could be almost a sense of entitlement where we feel like we are entitled to this ability to travel around the world and to hop around continents and go places. And so I think there is something there to really meditate on as you go around the world and think about that when you're interacting on a very grand scale, but also just in your encounters.
So for example, I heard a few years ago Samantha Brown speak at a conference and there was something she said that has really stuck with me, which is when you're meeting someone and you're in a foreign place, speaks a different language instead of approaching them and say, oh, do you speak English? But instead in the native language say, I'm sorry I don't speak Italian, or whatever it is, do you speak English or can you speak English? And just flipping from that kind of thing can be a hugely impactful adjustment in your mindset. So approaching all of your interactions that way and kind of thinking, I'm the foreigner here. I'm the one that is not a part of this culture, not a part of this society. And so rather than letting the differences be something that maybe you feel uncomfortable with, but be curious and it really can lead to this mindset of approaching things from the local perspective as taking the priority, which is really what I think it needs to be placed in this position where as the traveler, you're showing difference to the local community in all things.
If there is a water restrictions that you're being mindful of that if there's opportunity to take a public transit or something that's going to benefit the local community, think about doing that, not just in educating yourself, but really positioning the locals as the primary stewards and caretakers of their home. And how can you show up there as a visitor and be respectful just like any of us would if we were visiting a friend in their home. Take this whole community and kind of think of that as this is someone's home and how can I show up there and be conscientious, courteous, respectful, kind, and letting that be the position and try to remove as many of those barriers that we may think we're entitled to and really questioning that.
Christine: Yeah. Oh my goodness. And that flip that you've shared at the beginning, I think that's such an easy way for people to understand what we're hoping to impart upon this way of thinking about travel. And I do that too, is think about I am a guest here. And again, I think for me it's easy to step into that place, but so many of us have been sold travel as a package of entitlement. We've seen all the places we can go and we never have had to think about what happens when we get there that this place in the magazine, it exists for us to go there. It doesn't exist as this is a community and a country and a village that exists whether we come there or not. And I think the way travel has been sold to us for most of the history of the industry, we really haven't had to think like that.
And I think we're really needing to reeducate travelers and help them to see that it doesn't exist for them, it exists, and we're being privileged to be a part of it for a moment and being really respectful of what it already exists. And I think you see this a lot too. We kind of joke about it with travelers that are unhappy with the desert being too hot or the jungle being too buggy. But it comes from that space of privilege where I've paid all this money to have this experience, it should live up to all of my expectations and my current way of feeling comfort and my lifestyle. And I think, yeah, and I don't fault people for having that kind of wishing for that experience. I think we've really tried to offer it to people. We've tried to take care of everything and make them have these grand experiences no matter where they are.
And I think now we really are trying to, like you said, the word of having an authentic experience is important because I think many travelers, much like myself, found myself in that curated moment in another country where it felt like you said the words of performative and it felt imbalanced. It didn't feel equitable to me. And that wasn't a time when I had no idea what that meant, but I felt it and I thought, boy, I think we're doing something wrong here. And that was kind of the beginning of my questioning how we travel and really thinking about privilege and travel. And so I love being able to talk about this with you and trying to shift that mindset and how we're thinking about travel.
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Tara: And I think you're exactly right. It's not the fault of the traveler, but we're fortunate that we're living through a period that there's a lot of re-envisioning and re-imagining happening, whether it's in how you parent, how you're in a relationship or a marriage or an employee. We're all going through this collective questioning and going, wait a minute, is that really how we want to do things? And just because it's been perfectly fine and packaged in this way that does position the traveler as the lead character, as the focus, doesn't mean that we have to continue in that way. And especially when we see travel contributes to 10% of world economy, it has a huge impact and a lot of people are really taking the choice, the conscious choice to be mindful about their impact. And so thinking about also your financial impact and your dollars and how you behave and the ripple that it creates.
And even though travel is the space that's been set aside for leisure and pleasure and relax and indulgence, that it doesn't have to be, or at least it doesn't always have to be. I was sharing with you earlier how I have a vacation coming up. I'm using the word vacation very intentionally this time is for me to just relax and connect with nature, and I don't have any agenda. I don't have any intention of really connecting with a lot of people I haven't set out for that really just set some quiet time for reflection. And I of course will want to do that in a way that's respectful to the destination. But I'm not trying to go deep with this particular time. But the next trip that I take it will be for that. It will be for deeply connecting with people and we have the opportunity to pick and choose and craft what we need and then go about getting that for ourselves. So it doesn't always have to be deep and serious and heady, but if you're going to be a visitor somewhere, if you're going to be a guest, then having some conscious awareness of how that stay impacts the host I think is really important going forward when we think about travel.
Christine: Yeah, I agree. And I also love how you were talking about the intention behind our experiences because I think just that act in itself is really going to provide some clarity and also provide a different way of doing whatever activity it is if you really know why you're traveling. I also think so many of us just, we are like, okay, we're definitely going to go to Florida this year. We're definitely doing whatever the thing is without thinking about what you want out of it. And I've been listening to this really interesting book, I think it's called The Art of Gathering, and it talks about the intentionality behind anytime you're gathering. And I really have thought about applying that also to travel, but knowing why you're doing it, you're more likely to get the outcome that you wish for out of it. But so many times we do many things because of habit or routine or custom without thinking about why we're actually doing it.
And so if you say this experience, what I want out of it is quiet. I want a moment to disconnect. I want three days to read in a cabin and that's all I want. And that's okay if that's what you want on this trip, if you know that's what you want, craft that, but don't maybe book it at a ski lodge and feel guilty. You're not skiing with your friends and all of a sudden you come out of an experience not feeling nourished and you're not being present to the experience. I think it's so powerful to set an intention and then cultivate the experience that will give you what you want.
Tara: Yeah, gosh, absolutely. I love that. I love that book. I love this idea of that We are also in a time where we're privileged to really stop and think about the interactions we have and what we want to achieve from them and how we want to show up in those spaces and how that's going to nourish us. And having these little intentional moments throughout our day or our week or our year where we're giving certain things to need to fill out and round out all the things we need as human beings. And instead of just kind of passively, unconsciously going through life and waiting for things to happen to say, no, I want to connect deeply with people, or No, I want to retreat into myself and have quiet or I want to retreat into or whatever it may be. And being mindful and intentional about that space and creating that sacred time.
I love what you said about setting the intention. I was just actually writing something that was talking about if you're planning a trip with family or friends, rather than say, okay, we all want to go to California this year or something. Just make a list for each of you what you want to get out of it. Someone wants an adrenaline type brush, someone wants a foodie experience. Think about what you're looking for, what you want that time to be and kind of name it rather than throw it into a place and hope that that place is going to give you what you're looking for. But really starting with some of these kind of simple, even superficial type things that like activities. And then look for where that can be found. But I think so often we travel in the reverse where where's the flight deal or what did I just see a beautiful picture on Instagram or in a magazine? Oh, I want to go there. But if we think a bit more deeply on it and with more intention, then I really believe we get so much more out of it.
Christine: And moving into the next value that I want to talk to you about is sustainability. I think that actually really lends us to having travel that's more sustainable simply by the fact that you might be taking less trips because what you're doing is giving you what you want out of it. And if you're left still feeling empty or missing or longing because you didn't create the trip that you actually wanted because you were just trying to get the best deal or something, you're going to end up consuming more travel, which will be less sustainable. And so you can really help to even move down the path of sustainability by being more intentional, by realizing it's a privilege and being really selective about why and how you're traveling. But I would love to talk to you about sustainability. I'm not going to read the whole value because that one's a little bit longer and I want us to talk about it, but I know that you really want to work to have an uplifting aspect to local communities, to really be conscious of where you are, to be respectful of the planet and people and do that through sustainable travel.
But I would love to hear from you how you start to do that when you're creating trips and even when you're doing, as you mentioned, site visits and looking for the places you want to send travelers. How do you start to pull that into practice?
Tara: Yeah. Well, sustainability, it's really complicated in travel and we can't overlook the fact that getting on planes, and that's the first big step usually for a lot of us. And that in itself is inherently unsustainable for the planet. But that when we look at the word sustainability within the travel industry, this word is a lot more complex than the way that it's used in kind of our regular everyday lexicon. When we're speaking about sustainability, we might think of things like recycling or carbon footprint. But when you look at sustainability through a travel lens, it's like I said, a lot more complex. And there's actually things that we're looking at which involve economy. And so specifically looking at how it's supporting the local economy, how it supports preservation of cultures, how the sustainable efforts of course are going to impact long-term with resources and ecology and things like that.
But travel can really help protect places. We think about preserves or UNESCO heritage sites and people traveling to these places are helping them to remain for the longterm. So how to really carefully kind of balance that call out the fact that some of what we are doing when we travel is inherently unsustainable and will have a negative effect, but where are the places that we can have a positive effect? And for conscious travel collective, it's primarily about using the economic forces and making sure that we're supporting small businesses, we're supporting the local economy. All of our trips are designed to move very slowly. So for example, if we're creating an Italy itinerary, we're not going from Sicily to Rome to Florence, to Venice, we'll just stay in one little tiny pocket, one small region. And that allows us to use public transportation. Of course, we're traveling as a group, so that helps a little bit.
But ideally, we can not only support small businesses in this area, but have people be a little bit more immersed in their travel, which helps create familiarity and connection like we were talking about. And it also helps us to really make sure that we're not just kind of popping in or out, that we're staying there. We're spending money at museums, restaurants, transportation, farmer's markets, visiting all these places. And so letting our financial impact be one that is helping these smaller places. And I'm sure with the farm that you visited with your daughters, you can see that this is not a profitable way of doing business to care so much for these traditional ways of doing things. And a lot of farmers have had to turn to outside sources to help keep them afloat. They can't charge as much for their cheese, no matter how incredibly delicious it is.
They can't charge enough for the cheese to sustain the incredibly time consuming costly methods that they have to put into place to make it. But they can help supplement that by inviting travelers in and offering them a lunch and giving them a tour and showing them around. And so there's a lot of things that travel and travelers can do to help these small businesses so they can focus on their primary endeavor, which again, having those cheesemakers protect the land and have really high quality food that they're growing and producing for their local community. All these things are this kind of beautiful circle that I think that that's really what the sustainability efforts are about. I would love in the longterm to be able to do more when it comes to some of the carbon footprint stuff, but we really focus more on preserving, protecting culture, traditions, heritage, uplifting the local economy.
We also really encourage travel in the off seasons or shoulder seasons, so we're not overloading a community. And then we're also focusing on travel to places that are less traveled. So the communities that are saying, yes, please come here, we would like guests to be here. And making sure that the conversations that we're having with people start by asking them, how can we support you? What would you like to see from us? We, when's a good time that we can come? Or just really making sure that everything is done in partnership with the people that are there on the ground and not making any kind of demands upon them at all so that it is really done in reciprocity together. We're creating these experiences together rather than showing up and asking them what they can give us. And so with that too, it's also how we have so many wonderful partners because I might walk into a shop that is selling meats or cheeses or something and have a talk with the owner and learn a little bit about them and say, gosh, you're clearly really passionate about what you're doing.
Can we bring some guests here and have you explain what it's like to be the supplier for your community? And most of the time they just light up. They're so excited. They're like, yes, of course we could. We don't have any tables, but I can set up a little sampling form here and we can open a bottle of wine and yeah, let's do this. And so a lot of the experiences that we offer come together and just this very organic way of spending time there, going out at community meeting people and having that feeling, that personal connection and going, wow, this would be great to bring people here.
Christine: Yeah, I love that. And I think it is a really important part of sustainability. I think that we do spend a lot of time focusing on some of the other aspects that you were talking about. And while those are important, I think especially for small businesses, this is where we can create a really positive impact. This is a way that we can be intentional and we can really make sure the travelers that we're bringing are creating a financial impact that's positive. And having this nourishing exchange, which I think is also a part of sustainability of travel, is that it can be there for the longterm, right? And like you said, preserving the cultures and the customs and showing that there is an outside value to some of these traditions is one way of showing that value that keeps the next generation coming into the cheese production or the farming or this labor that's harder and not moving to cities.
I think there is something in that you said that is this cycle that really creates something special. And then I think the other thing, kind of going back to where we started with connection and the way you want to feel when you come home from travel is that moment in that meat shop, your travelers are going to know that. They're going to feel that that is something really special to them. They're going to sense that man's level of excitement to share his passion, and they're going to know that this isn't something that he does 20 times a week that he doesn't want to do today, but it's already on the schedule. And I think that's really important too. That really is going to create something that travelers are going to be hoping for in the future that's going to set them out, looking for those more small, intentional, meaningful experiences. So I really love what you shared about that. One of the last things that I would really love to talk to you about is you mentioned this before too, but also agency and host communities telling their own story, and I think that's something that we're really trying to focus on in the tourism industry. So I don't want to leave our conversation without diving into that a little bit more.
Tara: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like you said, this is something, there's just a lot more awareness, I think, than there was even five or 10 years ago about making sure that there is the stakeholders within the community that are really in charge of certain aspects of travel and setting the rules that we each have to follow for when we're going to be visiting or engaging there. So when it comes to the partnerships that we have, we have a local team in every single destination. So this is not advised, and it's a bit of a logistical nightmare, but 100% absolutely allows us to achieve these vision, mission, ethos for our trips, which is everywhere we operate. They kind of collected a team that's on the ground that are local people. These are the guides, drivers, small hoteliers, restaurants, and not any international chains or big brand names. These are all small scale productions, and you can tell very quickly meeting people in person, speaking with them, where they want to go, where they want to be a part of the experience that we're creating.
And so really encouraging and giving full authority to the people there to say, what do you want to do? For example, there's a guide that I work with in Oaxaca, Mexico, and she herself is an artist. She leads tours, she leads a lot of hiking, nature tours, things like that. But in getting to know her and forming a relationship with her, she would always talk about the art and the community that she's involved in. And so it's kind of like, is this something you would want to share with people and what might that look like? And she's like, yeah, but I don't think people are really interested in that. And it's like, well, pretend that they are. Let's just assume that they are going to be interested that. What kind of things would you want to show them? Where in the community would you want to take people?
And let's just play with that a little bit and see where that goes. And so that's how all of these conversations work with folks that are on the ground. It may not be something they first think is marketable or what people are looking for. And so I have to encourage them, just throw that out. Let me worry about that. Don't worry about it. But if you were going to create something that you care about that you want to show people that you think they shouldn't leave here without seeing that's going to give them that connection to your home, what would that look like? And let's see if we can put something together. The trips that we create, because we're kind of from A to Z, organizing a full itinerary, there's a lot of ways that we can do both. We can give travelers the things that they're looking for, and we can put in these other surprises and things that I'm sure it doesn't surprise you to hear this is the thing that the people love the most, but the little pieces that are coming totally from what local people find to be interesting or inspiring or how they want to spend their time.
Travelers aren't necessarily asking for that because they don't know about it, but after they've seen that or interacted, that's the big kind of most impressive wow moment that they leave with. And so it's really just giving that agency that creativity, handing that over to the folks on the ground and letting them put together something that they want to share that they want to offer. And then it's really, like I said, up to us to just try to convince the travelers, just trust us. It's going to be amazing. You're going to love it. It's something that will be special in building that trust with our clients so that they'll allow us to do that. But I think as a whole, travel will start to be more and more and more niche and more of these kind of smaller scale local experiences, hopefully. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but away from some of the big wow impressive, grandiose type of experiences that people have been really drawn to in the last few decades and into the more small, intimate, personal things that feel really special and unique. We're just not going to recreate this. You're not going to go back to a farm and have your daughter meet another Ella, and those kinds of things that just when you're living it, you feel like this is special. And I think that happens from the small moments and not the big wow ones, and people will start to appreciate that more and more.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah, I love that idea and that way of thinking. And I also really hope that it is true, so we will, I know, be working for that in our own ways. And I know that we both are a part of communities where there's so many other people that are doing the same thing. So I think I only hope that we're moving in that direction. Before we end our conversation, I have two last things. We have our rapid fire questions coming up, but before that, I wanted to give you the opportunity, if there's one last thing you want to share with our guests, if it's a quote that you kind of go back to a mantra, any last wisdom moment of wisdom you'd love to share with our audience, I'd love to just turn that over to you and let you share what you would like, what you feel called to share.
Tara: Gosh. Yeah. I think it's important to just remember that we do get very focused on the fact that travel is an investment financially. It's an investment, it's investment of our time and our energy, and we do pin a lot of hopes and expectations on what it's going to be. And I would just say be careful with thinking about travel as an exchange that try to reframe it really as an opportunity to see what happens, to make space for what is there instead of trying to force it or really to get to too focused on the transaction. Because as anyone who's traveled will tell you, it's an amazing teacher, therapist, coach, travel is so humbling. It's a way to connect with yourself and with other people. There's so much there. And I think we get a little bit too, myself included, I mean I do this too.
We get a little too focused on, I want to do this. I want to see this. I want it to go like A, B, C, D, E. And that the more we can just kind of be present and be there and slow down and open ourselves up, then I think it will really widen and blossom and open something back up for us as well. But it is a mindset shift, and you have to be really careful with doing that. I think the Ravel, setting your intentions is important, and a post travel reflection is something I've really been inspired to start doing as well and have some kind of quiet time when I come back to reflect and think. And so treating it more as this sacred space rather than this kind of transaction that's happening, I think is a fun way to approach it. And I would love to see how people feel about that and going forward, thinking of it a little bit differently and how that can open things up for them.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so we're going to jump into the rapid fire. I always throw the caveat of rapid fire ish because nothing happens quick around here. I love a long conversation. So the first one is, what are you reading right now?
Tara: Okay, so I am reading three books at the moment. I also love podcasts, so I always have dozens of podcasts I'm bouncing around in. But I'm reading a book called Self-Confidence, a Philosophy, and that's been really fun and interesting. And I just started Nikki Vargas's memoir, call You and I Land. And yeah, full confession. I have way too many books and I went to hear Nikki speak locally at a bookstore and thought, I'll buy this book eventually. I'm not going to buy it today. I have way too many on my shelf right now, but her excerpt that she read was so good that I'm like, no, I'm buying this now. I'm starting this right now. Sorry to the other books that are at home waiting, but this is going to skip the line. So that's been really fun to dive into.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. I also have too many books, and if it wouldn't be a disaster for me to flip my computer, I would show you my wall of mostly books I haven't read, but they just feel so happy in my space that I'm learning through them, through osmosis or something. And as I shared, I just interviewed Nikki Vargas, and I'm not sure in our schedule if hers is coming out right before yours or right after your interview, but our listeners will get to hear from her about that book, so I'm really glad you mentioned it. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Tara: I always have headphones. I like the bulky. I don't have the AirPods. I have the bulky headphones, so I always have those with me, even just to create some quiet space, love them on the airplane. I always have an extra bag for shopping, a little tiny fold up bag and a water bottle. I've started traveling with an eye mask again, just like I'm not going to sleep on the plane, but just kind of to find some rest and quiet and tune out all of the stimulation. That's been working really well for me on flights. And then I also, I love to have some just lounge clothes, like something I can put on. I like to work in the morning when I'm traveling, and so something I can just throw on a cozy socks and sweatshirt and shorts that just kind of lounge clothes, which I'm a carry-on, traveler only. I only carry on bag, so it's a luxury to have any little extra item of clothing. But I've decided that lounge clothes have to be one of those things. They need something cozy to just hang out in. I wouldn't leave the room wearing those things, but I want something cozy to wear when I'm there. Yeah,
Christine: Yeah. I think when you're traveling a long time that cultivating that sense of comfort is really important for finding balance and not burning out. Those small things actually really do help you to be more at home wherever you are. And I do think that's really important. So I love that you shared that to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you lived there for a short while. Where is someplace you would still love to sojourn?
Tara: Oh my gosh. So many places. So many places. I want to go back to places. I did a little of that when I turned 40. I went back to places that I loved from my childhood. But yeah, I think today my answer will be different than probably what it is tomorrow, but I think today I am thinking about spending time in Greece. My dad's mother was Greek and my great grandmother only spoke Greek when I met her as a young child. And I had this real love of ancient Greece as a kid, and I studied history in college. And so it's a place that I haven't been yet because I feel like I need to go for two months that going for a week would just leave me so hungry for more. So I would say Greece.
Christine: Yeah, we were just there for a month, the summer, and I would definitely say you need more time. I don't even think we came close to scratching the surface, and my children also both or my youngest were like, we want to go to ancient Greece. I was like, well, I mean, you can't exactly do that because it was ancient. That's the whole point. But the magical thing about it is that it does have those places where ancient Greece is alive for you, which I think they totally, that was mind blowing for them and to see a place and then see something in a museum and then later be there and see where that thing had been taken from to be in the museum and it was really living history for them. And I think it's such a cool place. It's unique, I think in some regards because we all as learning history, that's a place we focus on so much and I think attached to in such a different way. But yeah, I hope that you get to spend some time there, a long amount of time there. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place been?
Tara: This is usually French food. I would say like baguette, good butter, all of the French cuisine. Cuisine. I definitely, I live in New York City, and so if I pass a French bakery or patisserie, I haven't been to, it doesn't matter if I just ate, I have to stop and get a baguette to take home, and I always have to bite off the end of it immediately. But yeah, usually French food and I'm always kind of comparing it with the French food I've had in France, but I finally got on the AOL spritz bandwagon when I was in Italy last year. And so now that's also been a thing where it's like I can have an AOL spritz in any time, just be transported back to Italy, which is lovely.
Christine: Yeah, just as you were describing going through markets, one of my very favorite travel moments from this year was going through the market with you in New York and your absolute passion for all of the little nooks and crannies and the things that we had to see and taste was the best experience ever. So I love that you just said that and reminded me of that moment of joy in my year. Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Tara: Definitely my mom. Yeah. Like I said, she was very brave with letting me go out and see and do things, and she had this real awareness that as a single mom, that she wasn't going to be able to take me and show me the places that she wanted to. So anytime there was someone in our lives that crossed paths she would send me to visit them, there was a friend of hers who moved to Seattle and he was pretty close with the family, and he said, yeah, you guys should come visit. And she said, well, I can't, but Tara can. And I think I was in first grade and I hopped on a plane and spent a weekend with him in Seattle, and it was the best time. We had so much fun. I still remember things from that trip. And so she was just super brave and encouraged and was always looking for opportunities to show me the world through people and different ways of living and kind of different approaches to life. And so she really wanted to give that well rounded upbringing and did that through travel.
Christine: I love that. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Tara: Oh, goodness. It would probably be a family member. I think there's been people that passed way too young and folks that I loved that I didn't get enough time with. And so anytime to be able to have an imaginary interaction with someone, it would be one of those family members. And travel shows us such different sides of each other too. So that would be a beautiful way to have a totally different perspective on them.
Christine: Yeah, I remember the first time traveling with my parents as an adult and meeting them somewhere, and the people I met, I was like, who are these people? This is what my parents are like out in the real world. It was the best thing ever, and I think it totally transformed our relationship that we have as adults. So I love that you mentioned what kind of comes when you travel with people and how you see them differently. The last question is, soul of Travel is a space for recognizing women that you admire and celebrating women in this industry. So I'd love to give you the space to recognize someone that you admire in the industry.
Tara: Wow. Okay. That's the hardest question. So far, so many. As we mentioned, you and I are really lucky to be a part of these amazing groups of people that are just doing phenomenal work. I'm there, there's a company that I'm really inspired by that is called Stella Vision Travel, and their founder Zoe Shapiro, she's based in Italy, and she's creating trips that are about body inclusivity, and they're amazing itineraries. They're totally gorgeous going to these incredible places from a travel business owner, totally fangirling over what she's creating for her travelers. But I really love this sense of body inclusivity and being able to be confident and share a space and not feel like you can't have all of the gorgeous Instagram moments if you don't have a particular body type. And it's something unique that I haven't seen. I'm sure there are others that are doing this as well, but she's just the only one that's happened to cross my path. And so for all of those reasons, I really love and admire what she's doing and hope to see it take off all over.
Christine: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And also thank you for letting me basically go through your website with a highlighter the way that I would a book and lovingly highlighting all these lines. And in our conversation, I actually want to share one more line from your website. So the one that I have in bold print here in my notes is it's the human connections and moments of self-discovery that are the most valuable gift you get to return home with souvenirs for the soul. And I think that so exemplifies what I appreciate about your work and what you're creating. So I really feel privileged to have spent this time with you today to really talk about what you're doing, and I'm so filled with gratitude for our connection.
Tara: Oh, thank you. Likewise. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a beautiful quote to wrap it in with the Soul of Travel podcast. Right? That's perfect. And it's been a total delight. I'm more than happy to highlight lines and go on deep dives with you anytime. So thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it, Christine.
Christine: Yeah, thank you.
Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.