Episode 161 - Samantha Smits, Smits SusTour Consultancy
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with sustainable travel consultant Samantha Smits.
Samantha is a Sustainable Tourism Consultant with a passion for travel and a commitment to making a positive impact. She has dedicated her entrepreneurial journey to helping tour operators and travel agencies embrace sustainability. Samantha empowers them to integrate sustainable practices into their operations through hands-on project assistance, strategic coaching, personalized training, certification coaching, and more. With a background in tourism management, society, and environment studies and experience in the field, Samantha brings a unique blend of academic knowledge and real-world solutions. She loves diving into local contexts to expand her horizons and learn daily.
Samantha offers her own Thrive Track course, helping tour operators, travel agents, and agencies jumpstart their 2024 sustainability goals. Samantha is an active Travellife coach within the African continent.
Hints From the World
Originally from the Netherlands, Samantha shares the bounty of growing up with a multicultural experience and getting to know people from many different walks of life. As a young child, Samantha would notice the differences between her home and others' ways of life, beliefs, and cultural practices. Her family would often travel to neighboring countries when she was young, and Samantha was always curious to learn more about the world.
Around the age of sixteen, Samantha began growing in her confidence and traveling around Europe, even starting her Bachelor’s away from home at the age of seventeen.
Finding the Right Next Step
In 2020, during the onset of our shared global crisis, Samantha graduated from college with a degree in International Tourism Management.
Not excellent timing, she shares.
She was also completing a thesis in Thailand and had to return before planned as the borders began closing. Heeding the behest of her family and friends, Samantha returned home, unsure of what to do next.
Her plan was originally to begin working as soon as she completed her degree, but of course, these plans had to change at a moment’s notice. Samantha began traveling throughout the Netherlands instead, beginning to appreciate more the beauty of her own country.
In this moment of decision and change, Samantha leaned into the topics of sustainability that she began learning about near the end of her studies.
She found the right next step: An advanced degree in sustainability. And one that would take place abroad.
This trajectory would eventually lead Samantha to launch her own sustainability consulting business and follow the path that feels most like her life’s purpose moving forward.
Samantha details the shifts she made when traveling, questioning the practices and treatment of both animals and people–for example, shows with snakes around people’s necks or people being overworked–and saw how money and a lack of information and knowledge were driving the tourism industry.
Moving Forward into a Community-Based Tourism Model
Following her curiosity about people and cultures in her career in sustainability, Samantha knew she wanted to do something to support people. She discovered the Fair Tourism Foundation which helps to develop community-based tourism practices.
She also knew she did not want to write and research about people and cultures without speaking with them, getting to know them, and understanding their part of the story. Samantha personally financed her travels and launched into her research.
Through her experiences, Samantha recognized the power dynamics and need for a better flow of information regarding community-based tourism in order to foster equitable travel and tourism.
“When you don’t make travel as much about consuming, and when you really start to see other cultures, it really humbles you and teaches you. I still get confronted with inequality regularly, and I think, “How could I ever think a certain way or ever doubt certain things, or how can I not be happy in the situation I am in?”
Soul of Travel Episode 161 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Samantha discuss:
Following the curiosity to learn more about the world at a young age
The impact of graduating and beginning a career during the global pandemic
Acknowledging the mistakes of our past to travel and live more sustainably
The responsibility of individuals, as well as travel agents, tourism boards, and travel operators, to adopt more sustainable practices
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Samantha Smits.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #9: Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation.
Sustainable Development Goal #11 Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit SmitsSusTourConsultancy.com to learn more.
Learn more about Samantha’s Thrive course.
Connect with Samantha on your favorite social media network: Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn / LinkedIn.
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Samantha Smits (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 161 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.
Samantha Smits is the founder of Smit Sus Tour Consultancy. She is a sustainable tourism consultant with a passion for travel and a commitment to making a positive impact. She has dedicated her entrepreneurial journey to helping tour operators and travel agencies embrace sustainability. Samantha specializes in empowering them to integrate sustainable practices into their operations and offers. She does this through hands-on project assistance, strategic coaching, personalized training, certification coaching and more with a background in tourism management and society and environmental studies and experience in the field. Samantha brings a unique blend of academic knowledge and real world solutions, and she loves diving into local context to expand her horizons and learn daily. This was a fun episode for me because it really connected me to the energy and enthusiasm and curiosity I felt at the beginning of my career. When Samantha dropped into my virtual path, I was really drawn to the way she speaks about tourism and shares about sustainability.
In this conversation, I loved uncovering where that has come from. During this episode, we talk about her instinct to follow her curiosity, to learn more about the world at a young age, and she shares about the impact of graduating and beginning a career during the Global Pandemic. We also talk about acknowledging the mistakes of our past travel as we work towards living and traveling more sustainably, and we also explore the responsibility of individuals, travel agents, tourism boards, and travel operators to adopt more sustainable practices. I know you'll be hearing so much more from Samantha, but for now, let's get started with my soulful conversation with Samantha Smit. Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am excited today for I think a different perspective and a different kind of conversation than we typically have here on the podcast, but I'm really looking forward to it. Today I'm joined by Samantha Smit, who is an independent sustainable tourism consultant and the founder of Smit Su tourist consultancy and her expertise, and I think her magical powers lie in empowering tour operators and travel agencies to really embrace sustainability in their offers and their operations. So welcome to the podcast, Samantha.
Samantha: Thank you, Christine. Thank you. I'm really glad to be here and I'm excited for our conversation.
Christine: Thank you. Like I said, I really love this conversation because I have found over the past four seasons that I've really been talking with women who are maybe further along in their careers or transitioned from corporate travel and then recently launched their own businesses after having been in the industry. However, this time we get to hear from someone who is really starting out. You're more new to this space, and I love that during our prep call for this, that really helped to reconnect me to that part of my own journey. So I can't wait to jump in and hear more from you. I would love for you to just take a moment and introduce yourself and tell my listeners a little bit more about who you are.
Samantha: Okay, thank you. So as you introduce me shortly, I am Samantha Smith. I am indeed still fairly new. I am 24 by the time this comes out, I'm already 25 as after Christmas, it's my birthday, so still young, and I graduated in the beginning of this year. So definitely fairly new to this. Just a few months after that I started my entrepreneur journey and like this, I also ended up with the podcast. I'm very happy to talk about my work where I, in my daily life, work with tour operators and with travel agencies and share my passion for sustainable travel with them. I think that's the shortcut.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. And I think the other thing that's really great is that while you're new into the industry, you're definitely not new to traveling and that you really started traveling solo at the age of 16, which I think is not something that is very common, especially not in the us. But I would love to hear from you how you first felt the pull to travel. What drew you to it and what had you really excited about this industry?
Samantha: The way my curiosity about travel started, I think it originated from the holidays with my parents and the combination of my primary school, the primary school I went to for background information. I am from the Netherlands, and despite that, the Netherlands is a western European country. There are a lot of coaches there because we have had a history of a lot of migrant workers. So I also had kind of a multicultural class with many colors and cultures. So since I was growing up, I already got in touch with those. And in the beginning you have no questions, and then when you grow older, you get questions, you get invited to play at their homes. So we especially have a lot of people from Morocco, for example. So I would see the difference when I would play at a home of my Moroccan girl friends than when they would be invited to my home.
And this is where I started to realize that there are differences in the way that people live and the stuff that people believe in. Because for example, I could see the produce praying or some, for example, and then to transfer to the part of my parents' holidays, we usually would go on holidays mainly in the Netherlands or to neighboring countries like Germany, Belgium and France. And it's still good definitely if I reflect on it afterwards, but at some point I wanted to know more. And they were perfectly fine where the way they were traveling, they were fine with that. They had no curiosity to go beyond that. But I started to get this big curiosity that I knew there was more to see in this world there are more cultures to discover than Wien, SNI and Baguette, and I just wanted to see more. So I think indeed around the age of 16, I just started to discover slowly bit more of Europe. But I think when I was 16, I definitely stayed close before, but then you grow in confidence. And I started my bachelor when I was 17, and I also for my bachelor, so that also really helped traveling solo and young.
Christine: Great. Thank you for sharing that. And I think it is interesting when you start, I think so many of us see hints of other cultures, and that's kind of that thing that opens the door that we realize this bubble that maybe we're in growing up, that there's something else out there. And like you said, that curiosity just gets ignited and then all of a sudden we're like, Hey, what else I know about what else I seen? What other parts of the puzzle can I put together about the world around me? And so I think that's a really relatable emotion and drive. Well, I wanted to hear, you mentioned that you recently graduated. I think this is also for me, really interesting because so many of us that were in the industry found us ourselves faced with the turmoil of what happened during the pandemic. And you yourself graduated in 2020. So not only is it a hard industry sometimes to find your space and to, especially for you carry your values forward into the work that you want to do. All of a sudden you're in this space that's very different than what you had been planning for when you started your career. I would love to hear what that was like for you, how you had to look at things differently. Maybe that was the catalyst of your entrepreneurial journey, but can you share a little bit about that experience?
Samantha: Yes, yes, for sure. So I think I started my bachelor in 2016, and then I was 17 very, very young, and I was lucky to finish the Bachelor. It was a practical one. So it takes four years to have no delay to do it in four years straight. So then indeed in 2020, middle of the Corona crisis, 21 years old, I had a bachelor in international tourism management, which was of course not excellent timing. And it was also ended with, I was writing a bachelor thesis. And for that one I was in Thailand, actually close to the border of Burma, and I had to return soon from my field work. I was planning to stay a little bit longer, but I had to return because on the news they were saying that the borders from outside of Europe would close. So my family and my surroundings and also myself urged me, go home because maybe you cannot.
So yeah, those times were crazy. And then riding the thesis, and basically I was isolation. I think it's already kind of isolating without a corona crisis, but add on the Corona crisis. So gladly I still managed, but then I think first I was just planning to indeed start working when I was graduated. And then with the Corona crisis, I kind of lost perspective. I had no clue what to do. I wanted to travel, but at that point, the borders were, I think we had many hard lockdowns in the Netherlands. And of course it's also helped me to appreciate the beauty of my own country, but it also made me confused. But at the same time, I'm also grateful because it also made me realize 21, I am so young, I also realized I was not ready to work yet. I also still wanted to be young.
And I noticed that I wanted to learn more because it was only at the end of my bachelor studies that I got in touch with sustainability where I got this answer to my question. So tourism is not only about commercial, not only about sales, not only about marketing. There's more to it, it can be good because I started to doubt it at the end of my studies when all my peers would end up in sales and marketing. Some even went to it. No clue how that happened. And I was just wondering, that's not where I want to go, but I know that I'm in the tourist sector that I like. And then navigating around, and with the help of the minor I did, I found a university in Lasa, which actually offers the sustainable tourism master. So it kind of felt like the puzzle piece came together because it also enabled me to do another internship abroad, which was like, yes, a no excuse to live abroad for a few months, which really attracted me, and that also really helped me to choose this.
And then after that, I think the first year was also still Corona crisis, so all the classes were again in Corona crisis. So I think this whole thing of doing everything for yourself during Corona, what I'm getting to also made me realize that it's something I'm capable of. Because definitely when you're an entrepreneur, you're also doing a lot of stuff independent and for yourself without, of course you can show up somewhere, but there's also a lot of work which you do on yourself. So there was a lot of reflection during this period, and I think all of that guided me to the point where I am now basically.
Christine: Yeah, and I love what you said about finishing your first degree and having this image of the industry and realizing that you weren't sure that was aligned with what you really wanted to do. And I had a similar experience. I did just a three month training course in the tourism industry at one point. And when I got done, all I knew were all the things I didn't want to do. I was like, I'm not interested in sales marketing. I don't want to be a travel agent. And there had been one man that came in and he talked about educational travel and conservation, and he had spent a lot of time in Africa and a lot of community-based tourism, even though none of that language was really being used when I had this experience. And I just thought, whatever that is, that's what I want to be a part of.
And luckily shortly after that, I ended up working for a company that really had that foundation around educational travel and conservation. And I thought, okay, yes, we can do this. And then I also went on to get my master's in sustainable tourism, and I thought, okay, great, we can do travel in a different way. And so I think one of the things I'd love to talk to you about is the beginning of our sustainability journey really has us realizing as we reflect on the mistakes we've made in the past and understanding now how we can make different choices. I think a lot of people in their business and their own travels, one of the things that kind of stops them is they don't want to acknowledge that they've made bad choices in the past, or maybe they don't want to reconcile the behaviors that you need to have to actually be a more sustainable traveler. But I'm wondering if you could share some of the moments you had looking back, maybe choices you made that didn't align with your current awareness and values and how you would support others in making that transition into that style of travel.
Samantha: Yes. Yeah, I can come up with various at this moment. Indeed. I think many people when they start a sustainability career, they have had this moment when something just hits them, like a moment of realization because there is no way, at least I don't think that people just notice automatically. You just have had to have some moments of reflection. And I think in my case, I really like animals. So as a child, I love the zoo. And by now then I prefer to see them where they actually belong in the wilds. So I think also in my early stage of travels, I would also have activities with animal interaction because I was so uninformed. And I think that's a big trouble with travelers and because they even tell you it's not bad. See, the animal can walk away, there's no problem. Yeah. But the will is already broken.
Now I know that back then. Oh yeah, it'll be all right. They are the experts. I had no clue that swimming with dolphins was bad and animal the snake around the neck, which happens in so many places, I had no clue those things were bad by now. I know. But those really are things you have to be educated or informed about. And in both those places, I did not receive any code of conduct. Of course, it was a business model, but it was not like the destination also helped me to avoid those because your destinations tell you what to avoid and what they recommend. And regarding the people element, I think you'll at some point realize that people are working too hard in crazy conditions and they will be very, very nice about it. So comparable to the animals, you'll be like, oh, okay. They say it's fine, it'll be fine.
And then at some point you realize, no, it's not. They just are desperate for the money. And I also had very consumption I would call behavior of traveling when I think by now we call it revenge travel. I think about the people that this tendency of revenge travel after the Corona crisis, I think I started revenge traveling because I didn't go much outside of the alux, which is the term of the Netherlands and the countries around it. When I was younger, rich is fine when I reflect, not by now, but when I was an angry teenager who needed to see more of the world and who was curious as well, I started revenge traveling. I started taking many city trips and wants to see the rest of Europe as soon as possible and then by now realize, oh, I could have done it differently. I could also just have integrals. But again, the points of information, I think at that point it was not accessible in terms of money and information. So yeah, I definitely would've done it differently if I know, but it is also needed to realize, see, like I said, many examples.
Christine: And I think part of that, like you said, where the education needs to come from because as a traveler and you see these experiences that aligned with your current interests, you're like, oh yeah, I definitely want to do that. And they're telling me that this is a great experience and that it's good for the community and it's good for the animals and it's good for all these different things. So we think as travelers, we want to trust these people that look like local experts, but if tourism boards or larger agencies aren't helping to educate travelers about what is actually harmful in their communities, it's really hard to discern what is true and what is good, and can things be partly good and partly bad all of a sudden as a traveler, you're taking on quite a lot to learn how to understand what we need to do. And I think the other thing that's really important is, and we kind of talked about this before, is that what really needs to happen is a lot of hard and uncomfortable conversations. And I think we really typically try to avoid that. Most people don't want to be a part of those spaces. And so I just think it's really important to encourage people that are thinking about how they can change their travel behaviors, how companies can change their structures, that they just have to be a part of those conversations.
Samantha: Yes, definitely agree. And especially how you bring in the company side of it as well, because especially with sustainability and with a lot of things in life, basically the issue will be pointed to the individual or in this case the customer, the traveler. Whilst I think, and that's also why I focus on two operators and travel agencies, I think the companies have much more effect because a company will hit multiple individuals at once rather than take an individual one by one, by one by one, which is also impossible because not everyone will budge. But when you're like a company, the chances are way more likely that you convince the majority because you're like, you have the authority and you have to status this. And indeed the way you say, if you have a company who administer previous mistakes, I've seen this in my work that they would admit on the website that we used to offer elephant rights, but because of this and this, we have removed from the offer, it is open and blankly like this on the website. And I respect it so much because they are honest about their mistakes and it's educational at the same time because you can also just remove and never talk about it anymore and just be like, okay, next. But I think it is way more educational for the people who are resistant about, we're going to email you, oh, we want to write an elephant. Why don't you offer this? It's way more educational. If you in an example like this one, explain the change and then people will be way more like, oh, fair point.
Christine: Yeah, no, I think that's a really important, as you were even saying that, that's what I was thinking is how powerful it would be as a traveler. If you are researching this area and you see that there, it's the thing you thought you wanted to do and you click on it and it says, actually, we don't offer this anymore. Here's why. Then you've created such a great opportunity to share why you made that choice. And then the other thing that you said too about companies offering what is already more sustainable, because then travelers have no other choice. They are booking sustainable travel because it's the only thing being offered to them. They don't have to choose between two different options. You're setting it up within the company that way. And I think that that's happening more and more now. I do think people are really trying to create that offer. And I think especially for agents, and I should have looked at the name of this past interview, but I'll put it in the show notes for people listening, but agents really can communicate with so many travelers and they're offering such a wide variety of things that if they really start talking to their travelers about sustainability or putting forward different products that are aligned with that, they can really, I think powerfully shift consumer behaviors with the way they're influencing travelers.
Samantha: Absolutely. I fully agree. And you also see it a lot even between the companies themselves. I think a lot of companies also look at other companies or for example, it's a question I get asked a lot with, for example, I'm also coach for travel life, and then people ask me, what is the benefit of sustainability certification? I will not dive into that too much to technical. But here the point is, again, you see a lot that when people start with the certification, or in this case with's sustainable behavior is it rarely happens out of own interest. I mean, if it is, I think it's the great motivator, I would love that to be the main motivator. But to be honest, it happens a lot because they see a bigger company being successful and embracing it's too, and then they're like, oh, we should look into this too. And then usually they start to get on the educational side or maybe this is just the context I'm in and other people are in way more greenly motivated context, but this is something I see a lot in practice.
Christine: Well, I wanted to go back before we talk about a few of the other things on my list too. Your work in Thailand and the thesis that you wrote and your experience there. And I'm wondering how that experience influenced where you are now and what you saw really being immersed in that community, how that has shaped what you're doing moving forward.
Samantha: So the whole reason I choose this bachelor topic, I knew by then I already did the minor, which was focused on sustainability in general, but that was not tailored to tourism yet. But then I knew usually in sustainability what I will tell all the people, you have the people aspect in the plant aspect and also the money aspect of course. But within sustainability, it already came back to me again that I have the greatest interest in the people parts that already started from the primary school. As I explained, I've always had this interest in people's ways of living and cultures and just, I am so curious. I asked my friends way too many questions, but it came back and there again, it keeps this continuous line. I wanted to do something with the people and tourism, with the people actually living somewhere. And I found this organization, it's the NGOI believe they're called Fair Tourism Foundation, and they work a lot with communities.
And because of them, I actually figured out what community-based tourism is. And then I took a deep dive, I wrote bachelor thesis on it, and I believed in combination with it. That was a great excuse for me to travel. I did not want to write about some people far away write in their name about them, research above them without having seen them and also just talks to them. For me, it felt kind of rude, maybe I'm just using this as to excuse my travel behavior that I did not hear their part of the story and that I would just write on their name based on old research. So I kind of already knew from the beginning. I mean, I financed it with my student loan, but I already was like, I'm going to have to do this one. I really want to go there. I have to hear the perspective.
I will arrange a translator or something. I don't believe this research will be good without hearing it from their side too. And in this case, it was about two villages, one villages, one village already had some kind of a CBT model, which still needed some improvements, but they had a model which could be used, but it was not used a lot or at least the people living there actually recognized the model, but it was not communicated to the visitors. So then you already see this gap, which is again about informing it is so important to inform the travelers. And then after visiting them and having a home stay, so getting their foods, which basically is five times rice a day, but again, variation, it's very tasty as well. I went to a near neighboring village and that was such a big contrast that they were in the media, it would be called a human zoo.
It was about the Jira women and all of these terms are very derogatory. They're like batam because they have tribe names, they are tribes, the kayan tribe to be specific. And it was such a big difference where one felt more like authentic village to me. One was like a market, and then around it there would be living people with normal houses and then kind of like a centerpiece, a square in. There was a market with those people. So it was such a big difference to see that. And that's then also when I realized some stuff would also be some kind of a show, for example, when there were no tourists, there would be on their phones and other stuff like this. And again, I'm not telling them they shouldn't be, they're humans. I'm on my phone all the time too. But it really strikes me to see the difference also from the backend, from a place which had a CBT model and a place where I was sent to look if there was any possibility for a CBT model.
And wow. Yeah, it was, especially when you didn't talk to these women because both places had the majority of women, you need a good translator of course, and some stuff will still get lost in translation, but most of them just have good attentions and again, don't have the knowledge. And then when some, they would even learn some stuff from my interview questions, which I was surprised by. So yeah, it has been an eyeopening experience next to just experiencing being in an Asian culture, being in Thailand close to the border of Burma. Also hearing the stories because this strip are actually refugees from Burma. So they are a tribe. We're refugees from Myanmar, Burma settling down in villages, becoming a tour attraction. So it was crazy to learn about it and to how hospitable they were with hosting me and cooking for me, even teaching me how to do laundry by hand because they never did laundry by hand before was a humbling, but such a great experience and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Christine: And I think what you're explaining, just seeing the power dynamics in travel and especially I think in community-based tourism, I think so many of us believe this is really important that we need to have conversations driven by communities, but we have to also understand the power dynamics that already exist, especially as you were talking about with the refugee culture in another country, what is already in place systemically that is not fostering equitable travel or even the opportunity for equitable tourism. And I think that's one of the things for me when I traveled is noticing that inequity was the thing that made me think, okay, I think maybe we were not doing this right, that this feels like you said one place felt very performative and one place felt very real. And how did that happen basically side by side one another? What were the differences that caused that to happen? So I imagine for you that was really, like you said, a really powerful place to observe what was happening.
Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. And they're from the same tribe. Were just one, there was a small hike in between of maybe not more than two hours, so almost a small hiking distance from there. Two different worlds, same tribe, and they know each other. They will talk about the other villages gossip even a bit about how stuff is going in the other village. It's crazy, but it was such an interesting experience and then it really humbles you because of course, I think the big part about travel, when you don't make it as much consumption and when you really start to see other cultures, it really humbles you and it teaches you a lot exactly the way you were talking about inequality. I think I still get confronted with inequality regularly, and then you just want to hit yourself in the face. How could I ever think certain stuff or ever doubt about certain stuff or how can I not be happy in the situation I am?
If they have the best are living so happily in this one, for example, and I spend a lot of time in zania, but I also seen this in Thailand that people can be so happy with so little stuff. And it really made me back home. I had a very hard time throwing stuff away. And again, I would prefer to recycle the sustainability part, but I would hoard. I couldn't even recycle. I would just reward stuff. And oh, even scrambling made me trying to get rid of the habits that I just was like, why do I need all this stuff? What is this good for? Some from memory? Sure, but this one can just go to the secondhand shop because I was so afraid, thrown it away and then, oh, it really gives me, every time I get a new lesson, I think it'll never stop teaching you.
Christine: Hey listeners, I have an exciting announcement. I can't wait to share with you. The book Sojourn is Back in 2021, I wanted to find a way to bring women together in the absence of the travel experience I offer with Lotus Sojourns. I wanted to create a space for connection, cultural understanding, growth, and most importantly belonging. And it was magic, pardon the use of your lingo, Liz Gilbert. But really it was big magic. We set out to read 12 books in 12 months, meeting virtually twice each month and having deep and passionate conversations about the books and all of the lessons we were learning, showing up for each other, being real and vulnerable and supporting each other in one of the hardest times of our lives. Then we decided to do it again in 2023, we were feeling life speed up and the book club was set aside.
However, over the past few months, I've spoken with so many women and the thing I've heard in common from many of them are thoughts like these, I'm running faster than ever in my business and in my life. I am tired and not prioritizing myself. I feel like I need to heal since returning to life as normal, I feel anything but normal. I feel like there's no place for me to grieve the life I used to have, and I need a supportive community. I am craving deep and meaningful connection. I need a community of women where I feel a deep sense of belonging. So this is what I've been hearing from all of the women I've been connecting with and I'm feeling it too. All of these feels, and I have missed this special circle of women who came together for this unique journey through the pages of inspiring books.
So here we are. I am bringing it back and I cannot wait for you to join me for this guided journey that past members have shared is so much more than a book club. We'll begin at the end of January with a community welcome call and review the books we'll enjoy in 2024. We'll go over the format of the calls, the Facebook groups and more. Then in February, we'll begin reading our first book. I cannot wait to bring you the ever-growing solo travel community along on this journey. You'll find more information about the 2024 soulful book Sojourn on my Lotus Sojourns website. While you're there, just hit any of the join us buttons on the page and you'll be added to our mailing list. For more information and enrollment will start soon. Visit www.lotussojourns.com/ women's book club. Again, that's lotus sojourns.com/and if you land on the website, you'll see the women's book Club right at the top of the header.
I'm so excited that this is right around the corner and we don't have to wait long to share this sacred space with one another. And for all of you who sign up on the waiting list before the end of December, you'll be entered to win a few special prizes. One of you will win the entire year journey, and I'll give a few more month long sojourn experiences away to you. So make sure you head over to the Lotus Sojourns website, get on the mailing list, and you'll know as soon as we open the doors for this book Sojourn, I really can't wait to be back in this space with all of you, but for now, let's head back over to our soulful conversation. Yeah, I think it's really important and to see how different cultures place different values on different things. And I think like you said, we've been a part of a very consumptive culture for many years and that has flowed into travel.
And I'm glad you brought this up again because I think it's a way we've been taught to travel. I was just talking with someone else about this as well. We as travelers, if you go back to the education that happens to us, we've been taught how to consume experiences. And so we really have to think about, I think as an industry shifting that story that we tell travelers of what they want to get out of an experience, which they now believe. It's seeing all the top sites, seeing them as quickly as possible, seeing them with days that start at six in the morning and go until 10 at night to make sure that you see everything. But I think so many companies are now shifting that to how do you want to feel when you travel? What kind of connections do you want to make? How do you want to support local communities, which then we're really talking about very different types of experiences.
Samantha: Yes, I think more meaningful experiences, at least this is the word I'm seeing more. Even my bachelor, I think received the newsletter of them today actually the day they used to have the tech line I used to go tore and they used to have the tagline, discover your World, which is great, but could be regarded a little bit conservative indeed. And they changed it to creating meaningful experiences, which I really applaud them because is indeed like the change in focus towards what I always say, a good solution in sustainability would be for people to travel less, but I just know that's not going to happen. People will have this desire. So then it's so important that if you do something, do it good. So then give them more meaningful experiences and educate them on how to be more meaningful to the community and the destination. Because I really believe that the majority of people will do good when it's easy for them and when they're educated about it, people just tend to go for the easiest choices. So just make it easy to do so.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. And when you were talking about sustainability too, I think a lot of times we think we shouldn't travel at all, like you said, because of all transportation is inherently at this point in our existence, not sustainable. And so then that would say that all travel is unsustainable. But when you were talking about the other pillars of travel, which both of us, the community part is so important, the people part is so important, then they do need travel for their sustainable lifestyle for them to be able to exist in so many places around the world. But just trying to figure out how to change the model of how those interactions are happening. So I love the way that you've talked about travel, which is something I want to get into next. This is how you and I met is seeing each other's posts on LinkedIn and Instagram.
I think we just were like, yes, I love what you said. Yes, I love what you said. And then eventually we found our way into messages, and I still love following your content, so I really encourage my listeners on LinkedIn to make sure they find Samantha. I think that you do such a great job, one with consistency, which is huge. I know that is not, although I shouldn't say it's not my thing because one of my friends says my strong suit is consistency, but I schedule everything so I forget I'm consistent. And two, that you create really valuable and clear content that is very approachable, not technical. Even through this conversation, I noticed you're really conscious of that and that is very honest. So I'm wondering how did that come to be? Is that something that's innate to you? Was that a decision choice you made in content? And can we talk a little bit about how you're using those platforms as a place for connecting and education as well?
Samantha: It's definitely a decision because in daily life I can get technical, but then call it Dutch culture, call it the way my friends or my support system is. I think I have a very honest, straightforward support system and I welcome that definitely. So I'll get called on this very soon when I'm too technical. And even in the beginning of sharing content, I think I also was too technical and I also got feedback about it and I saw the difference in engagement as well. And it was kind of funny because I wanted one of my unique points to be I am already quite chatty of myself, but then also to be able to talk about sustainability in a chatty way, which doesn't make people like, oh, sustainability, but we're more like, oh, okay, okay, I always wanted to do this, but it's definitely still steps I have to take in.
So it is a great compliment of your to hear that I'm apparently already succeeding on that part. I've definitely made decisions on that. I'm also getting help with it sometimes to just ask, just to get some feedback. I will, for example, ask my boyfriend, for example, he's in tourism but not on the sustainability part. And then he will explain to me if it's too technical or I have someone who helps me with this designs all the content that's mine, but the designs I usually get help with. So then she has supported in there anyway, and she's Dutch like me, and she's also very, very direct. She'll just say, girl, I have no clue what you're saying. What do you mean? I think this makes me very, very humble and I really appreciate the welcome as always. It really helps me to do so. But I think in general, I'm also, when I'm talking, it's easier for me to be more casual because I'm kind of think this was also in personal in my previous 12 behavior.
And how do you say? So I talk sooner than that. I think there's an English word for it, but it's in the top of my tongue. Maybe I can recall later. So usually I've already said something and then my mind's like, hold on. And then when you have the time to actually write something, I will overthink it. So then when you overthink, you have more chance to make it too technical. Then when I say something and just think about it 10 million later, what did I do? And again, you should never be ashamed yourself. You should always be intensely wherever you want to be. But that happens a lot in my case. But it is a benefit I think when talking about sustainability because it's way more, I really see that people appreciate this. Indeed. When you talk about them with that in a conversational way, you actually already break it down and make it seem more approachable and less scary. For some people, it's a very scary words because they're afraid. It's like something expensive with too many technicalities. And then when you just talk about like, oh, but you can just do this and it doesn't cost you any money. You can do this tonight or tomorrow, and then the day after you can do something else. And then you've started with sustainability and they're like, huh. And the first reactions I like the most when you crack into someone's mind where if you can just start small because the smaller steps and fight for bigger ones.
Christine: Yeah, I think that's such an important thing too. Not only does the conversation need to be accessible, but the action needs to be accessible. And I think especially if people are talking to sustainable tourism professionals, they think, well, I don't know anything about it. I don't know all the things. I can't do this. I'm not go and become, I'm not going to get my master's in sustainable travel management in order to shift my business. And so again, there's this paralysis that happens and I think like you said, just do this. You've already started, and then people are like, wait a second, what I've already started. Or maybe even pointing out things in their business that they're already doing that are more sustainable than another choice is really empowering to see like, oh, yes, I can actually do this. And I think probably you and I are both speaking about smaller businesses, maybe even with one or two owners or operators.
So then the idea of completely changing your structure feels nearly impossible. So I think it is really helpful to find those small steps and see how that they can make changes. The other thing that I loved that we talked about before is the idea of you're on the right path when you're being met with resistance. And we talked about how early in my career, really nobody wanted to talk about sustainability. And this is going back to 1998 or 99, quite some time ago, but nobody really wanted to talk about it or very few people did. And I always kind of make the joke that we were set at the back at one little table in the back of the room at conferences and being like, don't go to that table. And I think it was really frustrating to see that it's a very different space now, but I would notice the discomfort of people. So I guess what I'm talking about is when you notice yourself getting negative feedback or when you notice people getting uncomfortable and ruffled that you're probably in the right tracks because the ruffled feathers lets you see where beliefs are really deeply ingrained in a culture and ingrained in an industry, and that's where we need to make the change. So I'd love to talk to you about that a little bit. What do you do when you notice that you're ruffling feathers or that you are getting some pushback?
How do you keep yourself moving forward?
Samantha: That's such a good one. And of course every time you're still growing while doing that, definitely in the beginning it's hard to not always take it to personal. And then some point you're just realize it's just like you say, you see where the roots come from, so you see that it's more above them than above you. And indeed, if you then what I always try to keep conversational and then figure out where the sphere comes from because maybe you can take it away by indeed breaking something down or see where it comes from. Because indeed the difference when there's resistance, it comes from something because they have a view, they made their mind up. I cannot imagine it is without reason because there has to be reason to have the resistance. So then I just try to, it's kind of like a puzzle. Sometimes there's more energy to do so than another day, but usually I try to just dig into where it comes from because also for me, it's a lesson I also like to, it's not just because I want to bother them by like, oh, I still want to make you do this.
Just tell me what's up with you. It's also just interesting to see their perspective and see if I can actually do something with it or help them with them. So it is something my friends who actually laugh about when they hear me, because I think in daily life, I'm not known to be the most patient person. But then I think somehow in my career I bring up my patients. Maybe that's where all the energy for my patients goes to. But maybe because when I'm really interested in something and when I see the benefit of it just as in this one to find out the roots of where this ruffled feather is or where this resistance comes from, I think it's derived from this big curiosity that I've had since I was young. At this point, it just becomes curiosity, just like something I want to figure out, something I want to dive into, something, want to learn about.
Christine: Yeah.
Samantha: So yeah, I think the curiosity keeps me up.
Christine: Yeah, I was just going to say too, if you're consulting with businesses and helping them to create sustainability plans and strategies and you're noticing that resistant to things, it's really important to understand where that's coming from because that is the shift that you have to make. So you do have to understand, okay, why do they feel this way about this thing? Or what were they told maybe originally in their career or in this company or in this way to figure out how to untie it. If they're really connected to that, you're having to figure out how to rewrite that belief. And so I think it is really important to notice that. And I think sometimes too, I notice people have the resistance to the thing they actually want to let go of the most, but they're still fighting. They're hanging onto that really tight because they're maybe about ready to let it go, if that makes sense. It might actually be something that they realize they want to be done with, but it's been a huge part of their personal identity or their brand identity or the industry identity. But it's like that one last ditch effort to hang on, and
Samantha: Yeah, it's like the comfort zone.
Christine: Yeah, so they're just resisting because maybe they are realizing they need to release it, but it's been such an important part of that identity.
Samantha: They might be scarce because indeed they might realize at that point, I think that also helps a lot of sustainability because at this point, I think there are, at least in my sector, there are almost not tourism companies have not heard of sustainability. You have to be very of the world, maybe very community-based, not a heard of it, but then community-based on XI and daily practice already. So in essence, I don't think that they don't have a toilet before it is just if their association with it matches the meaning and if they see any benefit in it. So yeah, I think what I see a lot is that sustainability is the thing that gets me clients. That is what I see a lot. And in the long term probably, but short term you're going to have to do a lot of other stuff. But then I try to phrase it in a nicer way, of course, then indeed they're scared of the roads they have to take because it has been presented.
So technical because it comes with many conferences and maybe with sacrifices, definitely sacrifices. What I see, what I saw in my studies with my peers, but also with my friends or family that they know that taking all the city trips by plane, that flying from the Netherlands to London, that it's a bad thing. They know, but they're so used to it. And then indeed, why would they change as if they're going to change the world by themselves. And then you'll hear a lot of arguments like this, they're just rooted in this comfort zone that we were talking about, that you talked about, and it's hard for them to let go. And then when the other option gets easier or when there's more known about it, because now it's just like, yeah, I know that the train is better, but it's difficult, takes so long and delay, but at the same time, the airplanes get delayed all the time as well. But then it's so rooted that don't touch the planes and it's with a lot of other stuff as well. So fully agree with the rooted and the comfort zone part.
Christine: Yeah. Well, before we end, I would love to talk to you a little bit about what you're doing right now and what you're most excited about with the clients that you're currently working with and what you think you're really looking forward to in the immediate future.
Samantha: So the clients I'm currently working with, I would say mostly to operators, and I see it's a lot, at least at the beginning, are early stage. So it's kind of interesting that me being early stage, I'm also finding other early stages, or at least clients then who maybe trust me or believe I have some kind of authority or maybe it's the content you're talking about, which seems approachable. And it'll always start with just asking me questions. And I have this thing where people can first have the 30 minute free consultancy because beneficial for both to get to know each other. And then from there, usually I think what happens now a lot that I just create a strategy for them, just explain the first steps they can take because it's such a big scary thing. And then I'll just try to break it down for them.
In your situation, this would be beneficial or what also happens a lot? I really support the concept of storytelling. I think. I don't really do it in my content, but I find it's very suitable for tourism companies. It's also really something we would like to do more within the future, just have to find the right people or the right projects that I'm kind of advising tourism companies to sell their tours in a storytelling way. Because I think for example, for a certain type of hike or something, for me it's way more preferable to read it from on day one, we start here and we walk there, that you get immersed in how this experience is going to be meaningful to you then that you see the additional value and the uniqueness rather than just seeing pictures, a short description with bullet points, then it's very direct, very short.
So I think that's always something I recommend to summarize at the moment, a lot of early stages and just helping them taking the first steps and taking this fair away somehow. I seem like a surface desk maybe I get a lot of questions and then I have to find the points where I'm too nice and I have to start charging basically. And where I'm still being nice or almost doing volunteer work because maybe I'm sometimes too nice on the perspective, but hey, I'm also still learning. And I feel very honored that people trust in me for those kind of questions. And for next year, my future, maybe I also love the place where I'm now with smaller companies and early stages, but I think it would also be really cool to make maybe a big impact with a bigger company or something long-term that I can review more often. Like I said, a storytelling project would really be something of art, and then maybe something of a track or something with community would really speak to my heart. But I'm also still really open to exploring stuff, and I'm just very happy that I get to connect with many people on a daily basis, like I connect with you and ended up on this podcast and connecting with people brings so many beautiful things. So that's also something I definitely wish to continue.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I do think that's the most important key to everything is the connections that we make and the stories that we can tell. I mean, that's I think very much what the podcast is all about. So I appreciate that. Well, before we end our conversation, I have a few rapid fire questions that we're going to jump into. So let me get to those with you. The first is, what are you reading right now?
Samantha: What am I reading? I am a very bad reader. I have books with me, but usually I only read them when I have to be on the plane. I'm still reading a book. I've been taking too long for it already. It's a Dutch one, I think it's called Where the Adventure. It is a book written by my bachelor thesis supervisor who really inspired me and still does with her content and with how she advised me on this expertise with Jonathan and stuff about choosing for adventure. And she also believes in micro adventure. So she's also explaining you don't have to travel far for adventure. You can even find adventure in your own backyard. And it is part of the mindset I'm trying to work on daily that I really am working on a positive mindset, a growth mindset, but also the adventurous mindset, which goes very well, and part of my curiosity. So I wouldn't say currently reading because I'm such a bad reader at picking up a book. I should do it more often. I really want to, I tell myself every year I should read more often, but at this moment it's usually when I'm somewhere without the internet, young phone addicted, so very bad of myself, then I'll grab the book and I'll continue. But it's also very nice to then dive back into it and think about other before.
Christine: Yeah, and I love that idea. I think especially during 20 20, 20 21, I was talking a lot about the art of travel, which is similar to that. You can find those experiences all around you and even in your daily life, you can bring that curiosity and that approach to just living. So I'll have to look and see if there happens to be a English translation of the book that you mentioned.
Samantha: Yeah, I think there might be at least her English. She speaks English very well for sure. I mean, she was a lecturer at The Bachelor I went to. I can try to look it up for you and send you a link. I definitely recommend it. I really like the way she's talking and I know otherwise she's also a very inspirational woman for this podcast potentially.
Christine: Thank you. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel? I
Samantha: A notebook and food.
I'm a very hungry person, so I usually try to be prepared by snacks with me. But I also really like to try out local snacks. I really like to try out local food and that can go very good or very wrong, but that's the curiosity, which takes over my part, of course. And in notebook I try to, if I see something or I told the curse to me, I don't again want to grab the phone. And especially when I'm on my way to travel, I want to put the phone away. I don't want to be the phone zombie on the road like this one. My awareness is good enough to don't do that one. So then I really like when you're on the bus, the longer journey or somewhere else, and then you can just note something down and sometimes she gets carried away. And for both my Bachelor thesis and animosities, I had research methods, which also involved noting stuff down and observing. So it's again, something I should do more often just picking up the book, but then when I do it, I find some sense of peace.
Christine: Thank you. To Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where would you still love to sojourn?
Samantha: Oh, it's so difficult because I love to travel to a lot of places, but I think I have two answers to that. One, I still wanted to explore more about Middle Eastern culture or maybe North Africa for example. I still have Morocco on the list, but for a long time when it's safe and there's no war anymore else would really have to go to Syria. So kind of like cultures that I've seen a lot in the Netherlands because we have many Syrian refugees and people from Morocco were like the market workers back in the day. They have children by now. That's how it went. And their cultures are so rich. I really believe that the Arabic culture is so intensely rich. And again, the food interests me too, and I would just love to see it from their perspective and just to see the colorful markets, all the colors, the architecture.
I also really love to see architectures makes me realize that I'm not in place I'm used to. And the other answer would be totally different, like colds very high because I've been going to a lot of warm places, very south, but for example, it is a bucket listing, so it shouldn't do to consumptive, but I really want to see the Northern Lights. But then I think you can combine in a way when you go to or Lapland or Icelands that you can do it in a good way, stay for longer. Especially there's a lot of good stuff about Icelands that it's one of the best counties for women and stuff. So a lot of stuff though on my list.
Christine: Yeah, well I know too. I think people that do some very mindful experiences that include the Northern lights in those areas. So I'll be sure to pass those along. I think you'll love the next question. From my understanding of you now, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Samantha: Oh wow, wow, wow. I'm thinking of correct example. I eat a lot of different stuff,
But I think, and this is not exactly the same because I think you can't really replicate. There's a lot of stuff and you eat it somewhere you cannot replicate at home or you can try it, but it'll not be as good. And for example, in Tanzania there's this thing, it actually derives from the kitchen. I think it's called Chapati, but there is some also of Indian people, Tanzania, and it is some kind of flatbread, but it looks like a pancake. Please don't be offended to Tanzanias and Indians. So then whenever you like a different kind of flatbread and a different country and it doesn't have the same structure, which happens with those a lot, then you still think about it, but then you think, oh, the ones there are better or this is better. And yeah, I think in general also it's spices because at home people think I eat very spicy at my parents' dinner table, the spices, even the black pepper, it's a very Dutch blend, nons spice household. Even the black pepper, it'll be next to my plates because the girl who wants to see it in a food differently. So then whenever I go somewhere where they spice the food, it's already, so it was great to just eat with international students who know how to season their food. And then it already gives me warm feelings of travels just traveling inside your own country to spices on the plates.
Christine: Yeah, my daughter, that's one of the things she's like, I love the complexity of flavors when we were in Mexico or in different places. Just that different, the flavor profile that is much more complex than we're used to. The next question, who is a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Samantha: Who's supposed to inspire me to explore the world? I was so young, so I'm thinking, I think social media must have played a role. And again, the people around me, maybe I know I had to think a bit. I think it's my grandma is my grandma. She sadly died almost five years ago, but she was the only one in my family, both sides who traveled like me. And she even did it when she still was old. I loved it so much that when she died too young, but again, she was 70. So not to complain about in her seventies, she would still travel with her girlfriends. She would leave the husband at home, take the girlfriends and go to Thailand. And for example, from a bachelor, I had an internship at Malta for five months and she would be the only one who knew where I was.
And then in a lot of places I've been, I would be like, oh, my grandma's been here. And just at this point I just wished I could have traveled with her. Of course, not possible anymore, but it was a hard one to think about. But thinking about it now, it all rise back to my grandma, I think. And she used to be, my baby didn't have a nanny. It was her. She was the nanny. So I guess when I grew up, I just saw her doing that and I was so inspired by it because I wants to do the,
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Well, the next question you may have just answered as well, but if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Samantha: Yeah, grandma. Yeah, that's directly the answer. I would've loved to cook with her. I would love to travel with her. But yeah, certainly not possible. But yeah, other than that, I think we'd love to travel with any friend or family. I lived for five months in Malta and then when, two years after I took my mom there to show where I lived and stuff. I think it all drives back to meaningful experiences like when you have meaningful company and the travel doesn't become so consumptive, but it's more about sharing experiences. I think just like anyone within my support system would also be a great match.
Christine: Yeah. The last one, soul of Travel is a place for recognizing and honoring women in the industry. Is there one woman that you would like to use this space to recognize today?
Samantha: So one woman I found difficult and also especially as we discussed before, that we connect every day. And then also because algorithm is funny, sometimes you see someone all the time and then you don't see them anymore. So I feel like it comes in waves when you see someone a lot and you really admire the work they do. And then maybe sometime later, someone else, but I actually got two names for today. One has actually been on your podcast I noticed, I hope I pronounced correctly. Nikki Pad Rivera. I really like how she focuses on actually the people who provide the information, the people who educate the tourist. She focuses on the tour guides and on the people at the destination because if they are better, your experience is better. And then not in the way of you have to do your job properly, but in the way of being more storytelling, being more immersive, being more educational, code of conduct way.
So exactly the direction which I would love to have more experiences in. And I just love seeing her content where she's also very practical in my opinion. And I will still learn stuff from her too, that I'm like, I would love to experience something like that if a, I did this, but in my own opinion would not take a lot of organized stories anymore. I prefer to do stuff myself. But then when something does something like this would, the other one I very recently connected with, her name is Debora Ro, if I pronounce correctly. And she is a big advocate about the Kota Track and Papua New Guinea, and this is again, drive back to community-based tourism. We were just sharing each other's love for community-based tourism over one hour connection call because we're just so passionate about it. How on this track in there are like many community villages living along the track, but they don't benefit much because the money goes to the bigger companies hosting the tracks while they are passing through their villages. And we were just having conversation about that and just the way she was so passionate about it, even though she's all the way in Canada and she's advocating about it so much, she's helping the, I believe he's called Jesse, who's actually living there and amazing people like that energize me so much. So I just wanted to give those to a shout out.
Christine: Thank you so much. I'll link Nikki's episode in the show notes too, if people want to hear from her. And I'm definitely going to look up the Debra as well, so I feel like I recognize the name, but I'm going to follow up on that. Well, Samantha, thank you so much. One, thank you so much for just reaching out and forging a connection. I appreciate it. And two, thank you for sharing your perspective and your passion for sustainability in this industry and creating really powerful conversations. I appreciate it.
Samantha: Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for giving me the place to do so for creating such organic conversation, not like a one-Way interview. This felt really authentic for me. Nothing felt forced. I really enjoyed the experience of being here.
Christine: Thank you, I appreciate that.
Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she dot sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.