Episode 163 - Jayni Gudka, Unseen Tours, Sama Sama International
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Jayni Gudka.
Jayni is a social entrepreneur with the vision to make the tourism industry more inclusive of marginalised communities and their stories. She founded Sama Sama International in 2023 following a research project where she designed a toolkit for co-creating walking tours with marginalized communities in the most ethical and responsible way.
Jayni is also the CEO of Unseen Tours, a multi-award-winning social enterprise that provides opportunities for people affected by homelessness to curate and lead walking tours of London.
Jayni holds a Master’s degree in Responsible Tourism Management, where her research focused on how marginalized communities can be more authentically represented in walking tours of their own communities, and an earlier Master’s degree in Asian Politics, where she focused on land rights and tourism in Myanmar. She has previously worked on attitudinal change projects with NGOs and developed community-based tourism initiatives in Southeast Asia and West Africa.
Unseen Tours: Finding an “Accidental” Answer
Unseen Tours began nearly fourteen years ago as a grassroots effort to learn and hear the stories of folks experiencing homelessness in London over a few cups of coffee. The hope was that this local knowledge might be turned into off-the-beaten-path walking tours to amplify the stories of people regularly displaced by the tourism industry. It worked.
Now, Unseen Tours has grown into a fully-fledged tour program offering private and public walking tours and experiences curated and led by people affected by homelessness and human trafficking.
Jayni has learned that expanding her team and reaching out to other local organizations to help with resources made all the difference when it came to impacting the lives of the Unseen Tours guides and community. She recognized that early efforts to solve it “all” — helping with housing, medicine, clothing, and more — actually diminished their efforts and that other organizations were better equipped to handle each individual component. Unseen Tours now partners with a number of organizations to support people experiencing homelessness in the UK.
Jayni walks listeners through the division between people experiencing homelessness and the large-scale events of local tourism. When events like the London Olympics or royal events are on display, officials work to hide an entire population of people. Unseen Tours, however, knows that few people know the city better than those experiencing homelessness.
Jayni also addresses the different types of homelessness, from street homelessness or “rough sleeping,” as it’s known in the UK, to couch-surfing, car-sleeping, and more. There is also a difficult stereotype to overcome that alcohol or substance abuse is the only reason people may end up without a home; this simply isn’t true. While this is a factor for people, Jayni reminds us that so many people around the world are simply 2 to 3 paychecks away from being unable to stay in their homes, too.
Unseen Tours also works with other marginalized communities, including survivors of human trafficking, working with tour guides to learn how to share — or choose not to share — details of their experiences with tour groups and working to heal from these experiences.
Sama Sama International
Jayni is excited to be championing work to amplify the voices of marginalized communities around the world using the Unseen Tours model, including survivors of human trafficking and modern slavery, trans women in São Paolo, and survivors of domestic violence in Mongolia. Sama Sama International represents a deep extension of Unseen Tours’s work in providing meaningful training and work opportunities for people excluded from the tourism industry. The model works by equipping community members with the tools and training required for a foundation of social enterprise, encouraging and facilitating the local community to continue the work together.
The Future of Responsible Community-Based Tourism
Jayni expresses that providing meaningful, community-led experiences in small groups are an excellent way for both tourists and destinations to gain. Small group tours offer the opportunity for people to share their own lived experience in their own narrative, from people experiencing homelessness to indigenous communities and people wishing to share.
Increasing opportunities for underserved communities to access resources, employment, and impact will always be one of the best ways to make a lasting positive impact.
“Stories make a place memorable. And having a variety of stories in a variety of perspectives can only add to a destination’s story. That’s what engaging with marginalized communities can bring to a destination; it can only be a benefit.”
Soul of Travel Episode 163 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Morgan discuss:
Balancing passion and purpose with our own capacity to manage our workload
How Unseen Tours is helping to break the cycle of homelessness
Taking your power back by determining how and when you share your story
Amplifying the stories of marginalized people
Jayni’s new social enterprise, Sama Sama International
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Jayni Gudka.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #1: End poverty in all its forms everywhere.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #11 Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about Sama Sama International and its work to create harmony and amplification between marginalized communities and the tourism industry.
Visit Unseen Tours to learn more about Jayni’s team and their work in the UK and beyond.
Connect with Jayni on your favorite social media network! Jayni’s Instagram / Linkedin. Unseen Tours: Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn / Twitter (X).
Donate to the Unseen Tours Winter Fundraiser on Crowdfunder.
Jayni mentioned two inspirational people in the travel space: Benjamin Zephaniah and Potjana Sansri.
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Jayni Gudka (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 163 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.
Jayni Gudka is a social entrepreneur with the vision to make the tourism industry more inclusive of marginalized communities and their stories. She founded Sama Sama International in 2023 following a research project where she designed a toolkit for co-creating walking tours with marginalized communities in the most ethical and responsible way. Cheney is also the CEO at Unseen Tours, a multi award-winning social enterprise that provides opportunities for people affected by homelessness to curate and lead walking tours of London sama. SAMA International is an extension of that work, giving even more marginalized communities the opportunity to curate and take ownership of their walking tours. Jayni has a master's in responsible tourism management where her research focused on how marginalized communities can be more authentically represented in walking tours of their own communities and an earlier masters in Asian politics where she focused on land rights and tourism in Myanmar.
She has previously worked on attitudinal change projects with NGOs and developed community-based tourism initiatives in Southeast Asia and West Africa. In our conversation, Jayni and I talked about balancing passion and purpose with our own personal capacity to manage our workload and how we may or may not be doing that. Well. How Unseen Tours is helping to break the cycle of homelessness, taking your power back by determining how and when you share your story, amplifying the stories of marginalized people and her new social enterprise, SAMA SAMA International. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Jayni Gudka. Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine and I'm so excited for this conversation. Today I'm being joined by Jayni Gutka, who is the CEO of Unseen Tours and we have connected virtually. I was so happy to be at the International Women in Tourism Conference last June when you received one of the inaugural awards at the I-W-T-T-F awards. I love the work that you're doing and I really can't wait to share it here on the podcast, so welcome Jayni. I can't wait to get going.
Jayni: Thank you, Christine. It's such a joy to be here and to be part of such a wonderful project that you've created to your podcast. Thank you for having me.
Christine: Thank you. You're welcome. I'm so glad you're here. Well, to just get going, I'd love to turn it over to you, Jayni, to introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us a little bit more about Unseen Tours.
Jayni: Sure. So hi everyone. I'm Jayni Ika, the CEO of Unseen Tours, so a London based social enterprise that provides training and opportunities for people affected by homelessness to create their own walking tours of London to these tours, provide an income, a route out of homelessness or a way to sustain a livelihood outside of homelessness as well as an opportunity for members of the public and for travelers to understand what it means to be homeless. They're meant to have conversations about homelessness to help change stereotypes and improve understanding through that, and I'm also the founder of a new social enterprise called SAMA International, which is helping to extend that work to work with other marginalized communities.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. Well, I know one of the things that we can talk about later, and we talked about just as we are hopping on this call, how you and I are both people who have one thing and then through that work you discover another thing that might need your service and attention and another thing, and we tend to build on what we initially thought we were creating because I think it's hard once you've uncovered something or turned over another leaf or a rock and discovered something to just let it sit there without your attention. So maybe we'll play with what that feels like in our work life and work life balance later on, but I know that's something that people that are really passion driven and use that to create their work experiences we struggle with. I guess maybe finding balance and if you want to reply to that now, we could start there too of when you have such a passion driven business, maybe set boundaries for yourself or how do you realize when one other thing needs your attention versus something else?
Jayni: It's something that's a bit of a learning journey for me. I definitely don't have that balance yet, especially embarking on a new venture as well, and I think you're right when you say passionate about something, sometimes it feels all consuming because it doesn't always feel like work. It's something that you enjoy so much and you feel it's so meaningful that it becomes more than work and therefore rest is sometimes deprioritized unfortunately, but hopefully I'm finding ways to get better at that. Yeah,
Christine: I agree and like you said, it feels so good that sometimes it is filling your cup as you're putting out, so it does feel some balance by the work you're doing, but being really cautious of when that starts to tip the other direction because we know we can't serve the communities that we're there for if we are feeling really drained ourselves, and I know that's something in the entrepreneurial journey and in the social impact space that so many people have conversations about. Well, to talk a little bit more about Unseen tours, I would love to hear from you what was the catalyst for this? What was the thing that you were seeing that this was the answer to?
Jayni: So interestingly enough, unseen was created by accident really. There was a volunteer group called The Sock Mob that went out on the streets of London with coffee and socks, just distributing them to people who are rough sleeping on the streets at that time. And through doing this and having regular conversations with often the same people, people, we realized that these were excellent storytellers that we were speaking to every day. Not only did they know the hidden quirky stories of London better than anyone, but also their own personal stories were so powerful. So that's what started the experiments really just seeing if we could turn that local knowledge of London and the local people that people knew through sleeping on the streets and the local that you wouldn't see on a guidebook or on any travel resource anyway, and turn that into a walking tour of a new community, something away from the main tourism highlights, so away from Big Ben Westminster, Buckingham Palace and show a real London through a different perspective.
So we tried it out. We weren't sure if we'd get any customers, whether there'd be any interest in that, but that was now 13, almost 14 years ago that we launched that first work and we were just really overwhelmed by the support that we got from the travel industry, from people local in London who wanted to really support what we were doing and to really help us amplify the stories of people who would experience homelessness, who don't usually get to have a role in tourism really. In fact, they usually discouraged or distanced or displaced from the tourism industry or by the industry. And that's something that we've been really advocating for and we're so grateful to have been able to help inspire other similar projects around the world as a result of setting up 13 and a half years ago.
Christine: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think it is interesting how we sometimes do accidentally create something or you just try something out to see how it works. I think it's such a great way to kind of explore opportunities like this and that I would imagine over the course of the last 13 years that things have evolved and changed as you've seen how it benefits both the guides and the travelers and the community or how it doesn't benefit and you need to alter that as well. What are some of the lessons that you have taken away so far?
Jayni: I think the biggest one for us is just knowing what our strengths are and what other organizations are better equipped to helping with. And we are such a small team, so when we first started we were helping a lot of rough sleepers people who were street homeless, we experiencing street homelessness, helping them find accommodation. Also other things like bank accounts, if you don't have an address, if you don't have somewhere to stay, it's difficult to find a bank account and to start climbing the job ladder that way. So we started in that way but realized that that wasn't the best use of our resource and our experience as a team, and although we did initially help people come out of homelessness from that early stage, we now work with people who have experienced homelessness but not currently being on the streets of London because there are so many other needs that they have, which we are just not geared up to providing to the level that we wish we could say mental health support, housing support, so many changes in laws and regulations London as well that we are just not as able to support with.
And so we work with partner organizations to help with that and help people on a different stage of their journey out of homelessness as a result of that.
Christine: Yeah, and I think what's so interesting about this particular initiative is that not only is it the tourism aspect, like you said, there is the social aspect, which is kind of where you run into the hurdles, but it is such a great way to create an exchange that wouldn't exist normally as you said, that this population would be, and what, I don't know if this was an intentional play on words but would be unseen, this wouldn't be what would be visible as people were traveling in these communities as destinations. It is something that we try to make invisible. And so what you're really doing is allowing both the people who are guiding to tell their story and be more visible, but also making the topic of homelessness more visible. What have you found to be some of the challenges in changing perceptions and preconceived notions about this population and what have you been doing to also help as far as advocacy for this community as you've become closer?
Jayni: So just going back a little bit, taking a step back a little bit, so Victoria industry really does distance itself from homelessness and so does the events industry. So we look at a big event like the London Olympics, in fact, Olympics anywhere in the world and people experiencing homelessness is always displaced from where these events are taking place. So there is this big division between homeless people in the local community where these events are taking place and the tourism industry and these big events where we have those other tourists come into these spaces where people who are sleeping previously occupied and taking up that space and being allowed to take up that space. And one of the reasons for that is that London or any other city in the world doesn't really want to be having to be seen to be having the problem of homelessness when the whole world is watching.
We still have added the royal wedding of Harry and Meghan as well, for example, and other events also including the Rio Olympics and even the summit that was held in New Delhi earlier this year, the same story happened all around the world. And so what we're trying to do at Unseen Tour is say that no, this is a missed opportunity. People with experience of homelessness, Nova Street's better than anyone, and so if you're really looking for an authentic experience, an authentic way to see the city and learn about what it's the local hidden stories are the quirky facts, the hidden alleyways that you wouldn't normally see on a walking tour. This is one of the greatest way of doing that, and we've been really fortunate to be able to advocate for people experiencing homelessness and other forms of marginalization through these projects as a result of that, I think the biggest stereotypes that people have when it comes to homelessness or the biggest misunderstandings that people have when it comes to homelessness is it's only limited to street homelessness, but there are so many other forms of homelessness too, whether they're people living in shelters and people couch surfing, not having a fixed space to call their own, but jumping from one's friend couch or another friend's couch and seeing how long they can keep going with that until they end up having to find some other form of accommodation or end up on the streets as well.
More recently with the Course of Living Crisis, we have people sleeping in cars and other places as well. So we use all hidden forms of homelessness, which people are surprised by which we're able to create understanding of through our work because many virtual guides have experiences, other forms of homelessness. Also, there's also a big stereotype around drug abuse, alcohol abuse, substance abuse, and although this is often a big factor when it comes to people ending up on the street, it's not the only factor. A lot of our tour guides have not really had that experience themselves or that's not been the cause of them being made homeless. So that's another way that we are really helping to educate people through our walking tours and to the conversation that people have on our tools and just helping see that there are different reasons why people end up homeless and in fact, most of us are only two or three paychecks away from being made homeless. It just takes one or two things to go wrong and you can end up in a downward spiral and it's so hard to come out of that afterwards. So that's something that we've received a lot of feedback from customers as well, just having that understanding of homelessness through coming on a tour.
Christine: Yeah, I appreciate that explanation and I think as you were talking, it just reminded me of a time when I was going to school in San Francisco and I think, again, going back to then visibility, it's like as humans we tend to kind of make that happen because it makes us uncomfortable or we're not sure how to respond or how to solve the problem or there's all these other things that maybe we're navigating internally to even begin to create those kind of connections. But I remember where I was walking to school, there was one particular person that I became really close friends with because he was sitting on the corner that I turned to go to school every day, so I saw him three or four times a day. He learned our names, we built a friendship or relationship throughout the time that I was going to school there.
And for me, just having that one moment of humanizing someone who is having that experience really changed my perspective about who is having that experience and it isn't people that it is, in fact people. I mean that's really what I think I took away from it and that I had a caring for that person and a respect for that person, and I think it just takes opportunities like this for other people to really start to be able to dive into that own story that they've internalized in order to be able to overcome that and help and to be a part of the solution instead of just disregarding the problem entirely.
Jayni: Yeah, I think you're completely right and I'm so glad you had that experience of really interacting with someone who was experiencing homelessness. A lot of people that we work with feel really unseen when they're experiencing street homelessness especially, and that's one of the reasons why we called our organization Unseen Towards, I think it's also one of the reasons why we do what we do in that we change the power dynamics. So instead of having someone who's feeling invisible, feeling unseen, who doesn't have any opportunity to speak to people who are so busy in their day-to-Day lives constantly just rush past them when they're rough sleeping on the streets of London, instead we now have someone who's experienced that leading people around their own communities, showing them all the stories and hidden gems in their community and really being at the front of that journey of sharing those stories and leading those conversations about this.
Christine: Yeah, I love framing that as how that shifts the power dynamic. I think that in other aspects in tourism and community-based community led tourism, that storytelling piece is really important, is who's telling the story and what it feels like to tell your own story and to then find the value in it and to know that no matter what your story is, it is purposeful and meaningful and I think that really changes how you feel about your own lived experience. And so I think it's such a powerful part of the work that you're doing. I would love to help our listeners have a deeper understanding of how Unseen Tours does help to break the cycle of homelessness. I know you mentioned some of the challenges you've had even as far as addresses and paychecks, but what is the overall process and strategy for helping to break the cycle of homelessness through this initiative?
Jayni: So the way that we work with our tool guides is we don't give them a set script or anything like that. We work for them to really create their own tools of their communities. So a lot of it's around helping them choose which stories of their own experience they want to share with customers and helping them weave that into the tour narrative and also making decisions about what stories of their local community they want to share. So if they have a passion with Street Art by Fabric Plain Tour Guide, Pete does includes that as a big part of his tour and he introduces some street artists like Stick who also experienced street homelessness previously another one of our tour guides. Ben brings in stories of his own family, so his father who worked for the Guardian newspapers who talks about that and it's an opportunity for him to share stories from his own family as well and bring that into the Walking Tours.
And through the Walking Tours, we help provide opportunities for guys to have training for public speaking skills, people management skills, how do they help lead a group around their community? These are not treating people who've had experiences of tour guiding and public speaking previously. So this is a big step from feeling invisible on the start of the journey to having people feel that they have the ability to share their stories and that the stories are worth being shared and listened to and that people are really finding value in their stories that really helps build up their self-confidence also. And so we've seen that link with mental health improvement as a result of that also and just not being made to feel invisible and at least 60% of the revenue formatic itself from our public tours goes directly to our tour guides. So the whole point of this tour is to make sure that our guys retain a life outside of homelessness, and that's something that we're working on improving and building upon and hopefully recruiting new tour guides as well so that we can help increase impact we're able to make and help even more people become tour guides and retain their life outside of business or stay.
Christine: Yeah, and as you were speaking about developing skills in speaking and leadership and community service really or being a guide, you have also looked at the industry from a broader scale and looked at events and industry events, tourism events, heritage events who often need employees to create events and looked at how you can partner to bring in staff from the community that you've already been working with. I know that I was able to see this and practice in London last summer, which I was really delighted to hear about when I was at the Women in Travel CIC event, but how has that expansion of the work you're doing worked and what has been the experience for both the participants and the event host?
Jayni: One of our biggest developments was during the pandemic teaching the pandemic, we weren't able to continue our walking towards because London, like so many cities around the world was in lockdown, and so we had to quickly pivot our business and look at the event space to host virtual events really to using our guide knowledge of London and turning that into not in the pub virtual quizzes that friends groups of friends, colleagues, corporates could book through our website and we could provide this virtual experience for them, and it was a great way for them to get to know London a bit more, even if they thought they knew it really well and have a bit more bit of competitive fun with their friends and family. But it also allowed us to have these conversations about homelessness during the pandemic and really spotlight our clients and the excellent work that they were doing and just the incredible knowledge they have of London through that process. More recently, we've been speaking at various events, events in the heritage space, in the tourism space to really shine a light on these hidden stories and help amplify these hidden stories that don't often get shared in the tourism and events industry. And that's something we're really hoping to continue doing in the months to come.
Christine: Yeah. Well we mentioned at the beginning of the conversation how when you discover something else that needs your attention, sometimes it's hard to walk away. And I know one of the recent additions to Unseen Tours is really in response to trafficking, and I had seen a recent post of yours on LinkedIn where I love following you to hear about what you're up to now, but you were talking about the Rwanda bill and some of the tours that you're creating now to increase understanding of these issues and really create spaces for conversation, which I think is really what you're doing that is so important is the conversation, education and interaction. But can you tell us a little bit about that aspect of the business?
Jayni: Sure. To be working recently with some women who are survivors of human trafficking and child trafficking, and this was following a program led by women in Travel CIC where they partnered with Google to provide some training to these women to help them find jobs in various stages of their career. And so following on from that program, I've been working with two women to help them create their own walking tour. That's been an opportunity for them to find a way to curate their stories in a way that they feel most comfortable. Of course, these stories are very difficult to share and there's a lot of trauma involved in sharing a lot of these very personal stories. So a lot of our work is around helping our tour guides feel comfortable sharing parts of their story, but also feeling comfortable not to share parts of their story and how to deflect questions if it feels too personal.
But the tours that we are creating with them, the first one being in Canning Town, which we'll be launching next month to February, is also a great way for her to feel more at home in East London. Although the tour guide's been here in London for about 20 years now, the experience of being trafficked and experience of surviving modern slavery means that her relationship with London has been different to many other people who come to the city. So it's been a way for her to really get to know the city, the history of the city, feel more at home in the city and help her family feel more at home in the city as well. We've researched things about the local history together. She shares stories about her own family and their links to local schools, local community organizations as part of the tour also, and just having opportunities to have these conversations about modern slavery, which again, it's just not really spoken about.
I mean, I think the UK has the second highest number of people being trafficked in Europe, so that's a very significant number of people, but these conversations are just not really happening ordinarily something we're trying to do through our walking tours and by having our tour guides decide how to have these conversations and decides which parts of their stories to share, we're empowering them to take ownership of their stories and how they're told can really be the way to have these conversations and to lead these conversations rather than having someone else speaking on their behalf, which doesn't give you a true understanding of the realities of these unfortunate circumstances.
Christine: Yeah, again, I think that is so important as you mentioned, is just the taking the story back and being able to be in control of the experience from that aspect. I have been at a few events here in the US where we were really working to create awareness as well of the same issues, and I remember one girl speaking and she was speaking kind of in the third person about the experience and talking in general, and she is now someone who helps to help girls transition from being a survivor and then back into mainstream society and how to reintegrate. And by the time she got to the end of the story, then she shared that the story that she had told at the beginning was actually her story, and it was so powerful to kind of, I guess be able to relate to her, to be able to understand the experience that's happening.
And again, I think this is something so many of us are so disconnected from that we really can't understand the experience. And so one of the only ways to really, to have a more in-depth understanding is to hear from someone firsthand. And I think probably much like you when you hear that, then it is so much harder for that person to become invisible again and you then want to help. And so I think it's so important, and I really respect these women that are being brave enough to be leaders and telling their own stories and to show up, and really I think that will create a huge change. That dialogue is really important. So I really appreciate so much this work that you're doing. They're doing that, you're creating this together.
Jayni: Thank you. It's just such a privilege to be able to help these women share these stories, especially as they are so difficult and traumatic to share.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I know from this, you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation as well that another social enterprise has emerged, which is the SAMA SAMA International. Can you tell my listeners a little bit more about that, the work that you're doing there and what you're trying to create?
Jayni: So been working with various other similar organizations on team tools with the past year and to understand how they develop tools working with marginalized communities in a way that marginalized communities retain agency for how these tour are developed, which stories are shared, and we're really trying to expand the work. We're doing unseen tools now to work with other marginalized communities beyond London, beyond the uk. So working with survivors of human trafficking and modern slavery is one example of us extending that work. But we're also looking at hopefully working with trans women in Sao Pao who face a lot of discrimination and find it challenging to work outside of certain industries at the moment. And the stigma associated with the trans community is such an issue in South America and many other parts of the world. That's something we're really excited to be working on in Champion to help amplify these voices also in these communities.
Another project we're hoping to work on is with survivors of domestic violence in Monia because it's so difficult for them to find jobs again outside of certain sectors. So it's a way of creating new meaningful opportunities to see a city or a community or an area with different perspective, but also finding ways to provide meaningful work opportunities and training opportunities for people who are usually excluded from the tourism heritage events industry. So we feel it's a win-win for everyone, but the way that we really want to work is to equip the local communities with the skills to then take on this micro social enterprise on their own so they can help local economic development more locally, and we can provide as much support as required from a distance or come back and return to do some training, but we'd really like communities to take ownership and to take even choosing the direction that these projects go in after the initial trainings taking place so that it really is a community owned, the community led initiative in each area that we develop.
Christine: Yeah, as I was reading more about this, I just think it's such a beautiful extension of the work that you're doing as you're witnessing what does it mean to be a marginalized group who are these groups and populations, and then discovering that this is such a variety of people and experiences and there's so many ways that you can begin to address this and that there's some overlap in some areas that is disconnect, but I think that it's such a great way for you to continue to create impact. Hey, it's Christine interrupting this conversation for just a moment to tell you about an incredible resource for women and non-binary entrepreneurs starting their travel businesses or wanting to create a more solid and sustainable foundation for their business. I am delighted to introduce you to one of the Soul of Travel allies women's work. Women's work helps women and non-binary folks build thriving tourism through education, mentorship, and community.
I'd love to take you back to my first connection with women's work. Back in December of 2021, I had a meeting with the founder Iris ccu. She was in the early stages of launching the accelerator program, but I was actually meeting her to hear about a property in Nicaragua she was representing at the time. She hopped on Zoom, fresh off the beach with still damp hair, and if I recall correctly, she was still wearing a swimsuit and coverup from her easygoing full of life energy and passion for creating community and building connections between impact driven companies. I knew right away she'd be someone I'd be staying connected with in a follow-up email, she casually mentioned an idea she'd been incubating and was creating a pilot program for called Women's Work to support early stage women and non-binary entrepreneurs. It was kicking off in just a few weeks and she thought I wouldn't necessarily want to participate, but wondered if I had any referrals.
However, with my women's adventure travel company, Lotus Sojourns being launched just before the pandemic, I felt like I was still in startup mode and I loved this idea without much convincing. I offered a full-hearted yes, day one, I didn't really know what to expect. I just knew that I would follow this brilliant woman where she would lead and I couldn't wait to be a part of the container she was creating. Then Iris shared the modules and content, the guest presenters and mentors, and I was floored. I couldn't believe the travel leaders she had involved to share about their journeys and the industry experts who would be walking us through all of the steps to successfully launch a travel business. And the other women on the call who would join me on this journey were all so passionate and enthusiastic about the industry and what they were creating.
It was perfect. I have been in the industry nearly 20 years at this point, and I also have a master's in tourism administration, and this was what I had been looking for. There is no other place that I have seen that offers this level of support for early stage entrepreneurs. Women's work aim is to flatten the learning curve when it comes to industry knowledge and entrepreneurship, helping you reach your goals faster and with more fun, which I can attest to. Through 12 weeks of expert led workshops, mentorship and community, even after all this, the fact that I was surrounded by women as I went through this journey only made it better for me and now I have a beautiful community of women who are friends and still support me as I grow my business. Here we are two years later and women's work is about to launch its fifth cohort of this incredible tourism business accelerator.
I am still standing beside Iris and having full faith in her vision. If you are interested in this type of support to grow your business, you can still join the cohort that begins on February 26th. Just visit women's work.com to apply today. That's W-M-N-S-W-O-R k.com. Be sure to let Iris know you heard about the accelerator here on Soul of Travel podcast, and are you an industry professional or business owner who would love to support women's work and their mission? You can get involved as a sponsor, subject matter expert or mentor. You can reach out to me for an introduction or just email them directly at women's work@byirisco.com. That's WM N-S-W-O-R-K at B-Y-I-R-I-S-C o.com. Iris and I would love to launch a special series here on the podcast dedicated to telling the stories of women's work alum. If your business would like to support us in amplifying the voices of women and supporting more women in achieving leadership roles in the industry, reach out to me at connect@lotussojourns.com.
Thank you again to Iris and women's work for being an ally of the podcast. I deeply appreciate your partnership and support of my work. Thank you for taking the time to hear a bit about women's work. Now let's head back to our soulful conversation. One thing I wanted to talk to you about because as our listeners will have experienced so far that a lot of the things that you are bringing to the forefront, our conversations that are difficult to have are things again that people really feel uncomfortable facing head on. I'm curious about the travelers who have participated in these experiences so far. What has been their feedback and maybe some of the things that they were surprised by or experiences that they've had overall?
Jayni: I think that was something we were keen to do. We don't want this to be a voyeuristic or exploitative experience. It's not poverty, it's not poverty porn. It's not meant to be voyeuristic in that way, but it's more about people sharing their stories, sharing some of the challenges that they may have experienced in their life, but that's not the only focus of the tour. The focus is about having these conversations, increasing understanding, but also seeing a city through a new wave. There are other stories that are so interesting that are not being taught. There are other forms of art, forms of culture that are not shared as often in walking towards, and that's also something that we're trying to bring out through these experiences that we're curating.
I think when people book an unseen tour, there are two maybe thoughts that people have about what the tours may be like. Some people think that it'll just be a tour of homelessness, so maybe pointing out poverty in a very voyeuristic way, and that's something that we don't do. So they're surprised in how we deliver our tours and the fact that it's a person with experience of homelessness leading the tour by themselves and not having someone else speaking on their behalf. And that's been really great feedback for them to realize that there are so many other opportunities that they could be thinking about and how they engage with people with experience of homelessness. And it's resulted in people volunteering with other organizations helping support the homelessness supports, which we really enjoyed seeing.
Other feedback that we've had is just that they've loved seeing London through a different perspective. We look at communities that aren't on the normal tourism highlights of London to areas of Brick Lane, which are becoming a little bit more popular now, but are not the typical places that tourists generally tend to go to. I think that's what they really enjoyed seeing a different part of London through a different perspective and learning more about the other communities, other multicultural communities that make London the vibrant city that it is and that's community positive. We've just had a lot of good feedback, I think, from customers because they can also see the difference that it's making through the tour guides lives through their self confidence. If they return on our tours year on year with different groups of friends, they can really see the confidence increasing in each tour guide that they meet. And more recently we've also started working in schools, universities, and corporate as well. So they were having more of a local tourism effect as well, having people take tours of their own communities and see the hidden stories of their own communities, which they think they know really well, but we can always provide a new perspective, a new angle, and a new in depth understanding of their own communities. Also it.
Christine: Yeah. Well, and when people ask what is one of the best ways to create a positive impact through tourism, we often talk about working with local guides, employing local people, making sure that the money that you're spending is going right back into the community. And I think that's one of the things when I initially heard about unseen tours as well, that I was like, this is such a great way to have that impact. And so not only, like you said, are you getting this firsthand account and probably this experience you wouldn't have as a traveler. I know for sure the experiences I've had in London so far have not allowed me to probably see any of the real London, and when I thought about coming, I had wished I had time to take one of your tours because I really wanted one to be able to contribute economically in that way, but two, to learn and understand a destination from this perspective.
So I think this is also such a beautiful example of community-based tourism and responsible tourism in action in a way that some people might not really expect or think about. Well, I would love to hear from you what you are when you look at the bigger picture here. I do know that you've been studying and really focusing on responsible tourism as well. What would you like to see in the future or how do you think more communities can build on the example that you've created to create more of a positive impact and be more inclusive in the storytelling of a destination?
Jayni: I think one thing the pandemic has shown us as well is that there are so many local experiences that we don't really take the opportunity to go on or to experience in the cities where we stay cities close to where we stay. And I think tour like Unsen Tours and other similar experiences are a great way to really connect people to a local heritage, to a local community stores. And that's something I think can help even with the problems of overt tourism, with taking people outside of the tourism hotspots of each city and helping them see other areas of city and they don't often get seen also helping them reduce their carbon emissions or the carbon footprint because they're having experiences closer to home. And so that's a great win for local communities and for people as well who are wanting these experiences that maybe don't have the time or the resource for or want to reduce their carbon emissions but still have similar experiences closer.
I think destinations really have a lot to add or to gain. Destinations also have a lot to gain from these experiences because it adds a new dimension to stories that are not otherwise told in local areas. It doesn't to me make sense to tell stories of an indigenous community from an outside perspective when you have people from that own community who are there and probably know the stories better or know a different perspective of that story and could therefore be included in that narrative. And that's something that we're really keen to see. So that could be indigenous communities, it could be other marginalized communities that all engage and interpret stories of local heritage differently and they add their own perspective and their own lens and their own interpretations to that, which adds so much more value and vibrancy to anything that we have in any city in the world really.
And it seems like a missed opportunity to not be including these voices and these perspectives in the tourism narrative to really help people begin to see that. And it's also a way to help poverty alleviation in local communities. A lot of the communities that we work with face on discrimination or don't have the same access to opportunities other communities may have. So this is a way to help redistribute some of that resource from tourism to help these underserved communities access business or access resources and have access to employment through this tourism industry. It's always growing and changing and it seems that great options to combine them both together. I think it's stories, it really make a place memorable and then having a variety of stories and a variety of perspectives and we add to a destination story. And I think that's what engaging with marginalized communities can really bring to any destination, whether it's rural, urban, in any country in the world. I think there can only be of benefit maybe to any community.
Christine: Yeah, I think it's really powerful and as you said, it's those connections that people really remember. And even as you were saying, those are the kinds of experiences maybe that I happened upon while I was traveling that really resonate, that helped me to understand where I've been that leave me connected long after I leave. And so being to kind of easily find this level of really intimate connection to a destination I think is also such a gem for travelers that are really seeking that this is just such a beautiful way of connecting to a place in a richer way. And I really hope that this model and this idea of the ownership of storytelling can continue to grow. And also as you were talking, I was kind of thinking when most people see a destination, it's like picking up a book in the bookstore and reading the front and reading the back and putting it back down.
And what you're offering is all the different chapters for people to really move through the destination and connect in different ways and understand even more about where they are. And so I think this is just a really beautiful offering. Before we end our conversation, Jayni, I want to go back to where we started and the entrepreneurial aspect of this and the passion driven piece. For listeners who maybe have had something like this on the back burner or this idea that they've had that won't let them, they can't let go of it, what would you say to them to really bring that into fruition, to encourage them to take this thing that really lights them up and actually turn it to something and bring it to life?
Jayni: I think I'd say just talk about it, have conversations about it with people in your network you meet is through having conversations and creating networks and connections with people. I think we can really make or help these ideas to reality, especially if they're making a positive contribution to the world. I think there are always people who were there to support and to be your cheerleaders to creating these projects where these initiatives that make the world a better place and more inclusive people. And I think I've just been really lucky to have had conversations with people and met people who really helped us continue and to grow in the way that we have. So I am so privileged to have had met these people and to have them help us along our journey. So I think if other people have similar ideas or similar intentions, having conversations, creating networks and just being open about what they're hoping to achieve will hopefully help them be able to do the same. But it takes a lot of work. It's not always easy, but if you're passionate about something and you can see the value that it can bring to the world and to your communities, I really hope they're able to find the network and the resource and the support to bring it to life and that we can create a better, more inclusive world together through these initiatives and ideas.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. I think that is so important. I always say it's the people around you that are going to ensure that you succeed, especially when you have the days where you're done with it because it is really hard. If you've already gotten them excited about what you're doing, they're going to remind you of where that passion was coming from. And also like you said, that you just never know which conversation is going to be the one that's going to open the next door. And so if you're passionate about it and you love talking about it anyway, just keep putting yourself out there because yeah, it could just be the person dining at the table across from you that might overhear something you say that could change everything for yourself and for the community that you are hoping to create change for. So I think it's sometimes more bold than some of us want to be, but at the same time, when it's something we love, you sometimes can't put a lid on it anyway, so you might as well just go for it. Well, I really appreciate you joining me for this conversation. I have really looked forward to it for so long, and I'm so grateful to be able to bring unseen tours to the soul of travel audience. Before we go, I have a few rapid fire questions, which I think you should be familiar with since I know you listened to the podcast, but the first one is what are you reading right now?
Jayni: So I'm reading a called Wild Ones At the moment we're looking at Chinese history, doing the cultural revolution
Christine: And what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel
Jayni: A diary or a journal just to make notes of any kind of light bulb moments or any moments of inspiration that I have to any point. And also, I'm a big believer in gratitude generally gratitude moments. So every day I try to find at least three days that I'm grateful for, to help ground me and to have some more positivity I think when things aren't as easy in the entrepreneurs.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. As you were saying that, too many people mentioned having a journal and a notebook with them, but I was just reminded of a reason why my family usually tries to travel with a notebook or sometimes even note cards, and I always ask my kids to leave a note if we've stayed at a guest house or a place where someone actually would know who we were. Maybe not a hotel, but where you develop a relationship to have them always leave a note of thanks, maybe something loved about the stay. And even if we're staying at a friend's house, they'll maybe hide it under a pillow or something. It's kind of a game. So I feel like that's another good reason to maybe have a notebook or a piece of paper with you because a handwritten note goes a long way.
Jayni: That's such a great idea.
Christine: Yeah, it's really fun too, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you lived there for a short while. Where is a place that you would still love to sojo?
Jayni: I think in Vietnam and Indonesia, they captured my heart and when I was anywhere in Asia, really. But the whole world has been so kind and to generous and now in Vietnam and Indonesia.
Christine: Yeah. What is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?
Jayni: My favorite food in the world is Tempe. It's kind, I dunno if you know what it is, but it's kind fermented soybeans, similar to tofu but not quite. And my first graduate job was in Indonesia who always connects me back to that, and it's one of the things I love the most.
Christine: Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Jayni: Two people. Am I allowed two people? Yes.
One was my granddad, so my granddad had quite a few in his life. He moved to East Africa at a very young age, and then from there he brought the family to the uk. So he'd always had a lot of adventures and I think he gave me that sense of curiosity I had for the world. And I think following from that, my father as well, just having that sense of curiosity and just that sense of adventure to explore and to see things from a new perspective and just to have these conversations with people to understand about better.
Christine: If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or passed, who would it be?
Jayni: I think I'd choose Benjamin De I, who unfortunately recently passed away, so he was a British poet activist. He's worn so many hats, which is his take on the world and the injustice in the world and the conversations he's had with people around the world just inspired me a lot of my journey as well. So I'd love to have had more conversations with him and traveled with him.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. The Last Soul of Travel is a space for really recognizing women, creating a positive impact in the industry. I would love to ask if there's someone that you would like to recognize in this space.
Jayni: So many incredible women. Alessandra Alonzo is doing so much great work bringing women together. My teacher, her name is Bo Jana based in Thailand, and she teaches a lot of people on community-based tourism community-led tourism has been doing this for at least 40 years and working across Southeast Asia and also West Africa. So I think I'd love to follow in her footstep to create the impact that she's had.
Christine: Yeah, thank you so much. I think our listeners are definitely familiar with Alessandra, and I'll share her episode in case they'd like to listen. And thank you for also mentioning your teacher. I think our teachers and our mentors are so important to us in our journey, and I love that you brought her name into the podcast. Thank you again for being here, for sharing your work. I hope that so many people are inspired and I also hope that if they're in London, they look for unseen tours and are able to participate in this experience. And I know the next time that I'm there, it will be the very first thing on my list and not an afterthought. Thoughts.
Jayni: We look forward to having you join us. Thank you so much for this opportunity.
Christine: Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel, presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Oduardo, CEO of ConVerGente. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.