Episode 166 - Kat Medina, The Joys of Jet Lag: How to Use a Traveler's Mindset to Not Be An A-hole in Daily Life
In this episode of the Soul of Travel Podcast, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Kat Medina, author of The Joys of Jet Lag: How to Use a Traveler's Mindset to Not Be An A-hole in Daily Life.
Writer, world traveler, and public speaker, Kat Medina is the author of The Joys of Jet Lag: How to Use a Traveler’s Mindset to Not Be an A-Hole in Daily Life. She’s traveled to more than 35 countries and lived in Ecuador, Argentina, France, and Spain. Kat draws upon her passion for travel to inspire joy in others, teaching people how to show up and live fully by embodying a traveler’s mindset in daily life. She currently lives in South Lake Tahoe, California, with her husband, two sons, and giant Golden Retriever named Donut.
Entering the World of Travel
When Kat was growing up, the most impactful trip she attended was a study abroad program in France. While she had applied for the location in Australia to the disappointing news that she would have to make a second or third choice, Kat decided to take a few months of French and, knowing how to count to ten and maybe sing a few songs, arrived in a French high school and homestay. This full immersion experience was incredibly challenging for Kat, but it made her feel alive.
The Epiphany That Led to ‘The Traveler’s Mindset’
“There are so many different ways to go through life, and you can pick and choose what works for you based on what you see and experience.”
Once she returned from her study abroad program, Kat prioritized solo travel for the first few years, chasing that experience of landing somewhere without knowing a soul.
That experience of having two selves permeated Kat’s young adult life. On her trips, she felt as if she was living as her best self, traveling to thirty-five countries and living in Ecuador, France, Argentina, Spain, and California. She would put her head down and work between trips, always trying to get to that next travel experience.
Kat began noticing that she was taking things for granted at home, losing sight of that best self she experienced during travel. Christine shares that many travelers can relate to this experience, too.
“I lacked the lightheartedness that would allow me to see mishaps as part of the adventure, which was effortless when I traveled,” Kat shares.
She recognized that something had to change; Kat instantly understood that being the best version of herself would take a new level of commitment to the values she embodied while abroad. Looking for those patterns and consciously beginning to choose them became a lifelong practice, which Kat dubbed her ’Traveler’s Mindset.’
Whole-Heartedness as a Travel and Life Value
“No matter what the moment was, I was eager to participate in it—not just watch it on the sidelines, or more commonly at home, resist it,” shares Kat.
Acknowledging people and having conversations with strangers
Set aside time and attention to actively participate in the moment
Seeing the mundane as adventure
Seeking moments of connection with people and the environment
Getting curious instead of judgmental
Bringing Travel Characteristics to Daily Life
For Kat, one of the most important ways of incorporating a traveler’s mindset is making the choice to see the world through fresh eyes. When we’re at home, we have routines; we’re comfortable; things can be easy; but when abroad, Kat shares, she will even choose trips that help her break free from autopilot. In daily life, Kat will try and push herself beyond her comfort zone to dissolve that barrier of behavior and even shyness that so easily disappears while traveling.
“Life is happening for me, not to me,” becomes the “security blanket” that allows her to lean into daily life in a new way.
A simple practice of activating your five senses might be enough to place you fully in the present moment. For Kat, Christine, and so many others in the Soul of Travel community, being a parent is one of the biggest ways to help you see the magic in life. Experiencing awe “whether it’s something extraordinary or ordinary, it’s all the same to them,” says Kat. “And maybe that’s the big difference. When I’m traveling, I’m purposefully trying to find these moments of awe that light me up and make me feel like the world is so incredible.”
It can be a real challenge to continuously adopt a traveler’s mindset when we return home, where there are moments of heartache and more. Kat recommends the questions posed by Byron Katie in searching for whether something is actually true. Employing this strategy to gain perspective on her own life and of the state of the world can be an invitation to accept what we can change, without falling into despair.
At the root of everything, Kat reminds us that life is happening for us, not to us, both abroad and at home.
“Acknowledge that the challenges and unexpected setbacks that sprinkle our days might actually be little gifts that can be turned into adventure, or an occasion to rise up and improvise, to connect with someone, or to connect to ourselves.”
Soul of Travel Episode 166 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Kat discuss:
How to find the magic moments in travel and life, and how to use those moments to help us understand, reflect, and question what we’re looking for in life
Finding ways to bring the traveler’s mindset home
Tapping into genuine presence–and how kids can help
Letting go of stories that hold us back and designing a life we love
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Kat Medina.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Get to know Kat and learn more about The Joys of Jet Lag on her website! https://www.katmedina.com/
Check out Kat’s free 7 Days to Joy Challenge.
Get your copy of The Joys of Jet Lag here.
Connect with Kat on your favorite social media network: Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Kat Medina (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 166 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the soul of travel
Writer, world traveler and public speaker Kat Medina is the author of the Joys of Jet Lag, how to use a Traveler's Mindset to not be an A-hole in daily life. She's traveled to more than 35 countries and lived in Ecuador, Argentina, France, and Spain. Kat draws upon her passion for travel, to inspire joy in others, teaching people how to show up and live fully by embodying a traveler's mindset in daily life. In our conversation, Kat and I talk about how to find the magic moments in travel and in life by understanding who you are when you travel, reflecting on that best self that often emerges, questioning what you are seeking and looking at how you operate differently, and then finding ways to bring that traveler's mindset back home with you. We also talk about tapping into genuine presence and how our kids have helped remind us to do this. We also discuss letting go of stories that hold us back and how we can create a life we want to live in a way we want to live 365 days a year instead of waiting for the moments of travel to feel vibrant and alive. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Kat Medina.
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm your host, Christine, and I'm very excited for this conversation. Today I am joined by Kat Medina, who is the author of the Joys of Jet Lag, and we are going to talk about so many things that come up here on the podcast in the context of business and travel and life, really thinking about how we can find more joy, be more intentional, overcome stories that hold us back from living the life that we really dream of, and also how to bring the travelers mindset into our everyday life. So I can't wait to jump into the conversation, but Kat, welcome to the podcast.
Kat: Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here.
Christine: Thank you. I want to start by sharing the quote that you shared with me for my listeners. Every guest that I invite onto the show, they have this little form they fill out and I ask everybody to share a travel. Sometimes I do something with them, sometimes they're just a way for me to kind glimpse what someone believes and feels about travel. And the quote that Kat shared I really loved because it was different than any that I've ever seen. And the quote is, and above all, watch with glittering eyes, the world, whole world around you, because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it, and it's a role doll quote, who my youngest daughter loves. But for me, I love that because I think what we're going to talk a lot about is the hidden and unlikely magic in travel and how we can bring that into our lives to find the hidden magic in our own lives as well. So I thought that was such a great way to set up and shape our conversation. But before we get going too far, Kat, I would love to turn it over to you and just give you a moment to introduce yourself to our listeners.
Kat: Yeah, so my name is Kat Medina and I live in South Lake Tahoe, California, so right by a lake and in the woods, and it is a wonderful spot to be in between trips. I have two boys, a two and a half year old and a five month or now six month old, a giant golden retriever named Donut and a husband named Jeff. And I'm an author. I recently wrote The Joys of Jet Lag, how to use a Traveler's mindset to not be an A-hole in daily life. And it's all about using a traveler's mindset no matter where you are so that you can experience the joy and awe that are so common abroad at home.
Christine: Yeah, thank you. I also loved your dog's name that made me so happy and that you say he's a giant golden retriever because I had a giant golden retriever as well, and he was like 110 pounds and so big, and so I'm like, oh my gosh, I know exactly what she is saying when she says that. Yeah,
Kat: He is joining me on this interview too, so if you hear heavy breathing, it's him, not me.
Christine: That's perfect. Mine is hopefully sleeping beside me, although now I have a miniature Australian shepherd because after having the giant golden, I did not want the job of managing such a large dog with my children anymore.
Kat: Yeah, for sure.
Christine: Okay, well to get going, I would just love to hear from you a few of your early travel experiences and how those began to shape your understanding of travel and the value that it has in our lives.
Kat: So when I was growing up, we went on a couple trips, but I would say the most impactful one was actually when I was 17, I participated in a study abroad program called a FS in France. And before leaving, I had actually applied for the program that was located in Australia, and then a couple months before I left, I got an email saying that there weren't enough host families there and I could choose between France, Italy and Venezuela. And at the time Venezuela was pretty rocky and a lot of those kids that ended up doing that program got sent home. It was unsafe. And in my high school they only taught French or Spanish, and so I figured I'll take a couple months of French better than nothing, but I basically left knowing how to count to 10 and sing songs in French, the joys of public school.
But on arrival, it was such a shock to my senses because I didn't know the language and I got plopped into a French high school and was living with a family and I was fully immersed in the language and the culture and it was incredibly challenging, but it made me feel so alive. I remember leaving SFO leaving the airport and turning back and waving goodbye to my family and friends who came to see me off and it was equal parts scared and excited and just not knowing that it was going to change my life, but not exactly sure how. And there were lots of challenges that I had to face head on when I was there by myself and I rose to the occasion and I learned so much about the world going to a different high school, I realized that every country's version of world history is different to the US is the protagonist of our history, and in France the French are the protagonist of theirs.
And so learning the differences of what was taught was really eyeopening. And also just seeing there's more than one right way to live a life, and that's one of my favorite parts about traveling to different places and especially countries where the cultures are so different is it makes you realize there's so many different ways to go through life and you can pick and choose what works for you based on what you see and experience. But once I got back, I was absolutely hooked and I tried to prioritize solo travel for the first several years just because I felt like it was such a full experience that landed you somewhere where you didn't know a soul. And if you're able to spend an extended period of time in one of these countries by yourself, it's kind of like you create this alternate life, you can create a whole new friend group. And I really love that aspect of it. It made me feel like an adventure, an explorer, which is what I wanted to be when I grew up. And yeah, it changed my life, that trip, that first solo trip.
Christine: Yeah, I think people that have that opportunity to travel so young like that too, I think is a really different experience because you have that shift or that awareness. So early on, and as you were talking about the history in particular, I remember the same kind of awareness of realizing that history is told from the perspective of wherever you are, everywhere you go, and then also having the awareness of that there's actually no one true narrative of history, which also then was unsettling and also maybe comforting at the same time because it was really powerful to realize how focused we can be in our own experience and then to realize that everybody, these kind of ways that things are shaped for them and then that when you travel you can kind of start to break that down and put it together for yourself. And I think that's so powerful. I would love to know if there was a moment related to travel where you really had the aha and then realized the disconnect between your everyday Kat and travel Kat because you talk a lot about how to bring those two pieces together. So when did you realize maybe that they were separate personas?
Kat: I knew for a while I felt like for the majority of my life I was two different people. I was my best self when I was on my trips. It was like the qualities that I admired most were effortless. Joy was effortless and that was always a big priority. I wanted to live a joyful, passionate life where I felt like I was living each moment to the fullest. When I traveled, it was like as soon as my feet hit foreign ground, it was instantaneous. Then I traveled to about 35 countries and I lived in Ecuador, France, Argentina, Spain, and then California. And I just started to notice that as much as I prioritized traveling, I was lucky to be able to go on as many trips as I did. I still spent the majority of my time working in California, and I realized that in between these trips I would just kind of hunker down, save a bunch of money, work really hard and then go on the trip.
And it was like that cycle of always looking forward to where I was going next. And I noticed that when I was at home, I wasn't my best self. I would take things for granted, stuff that I knew firsthand from so many of the places that I'd bend Ben were really incredible, like just hot water when you shower or being able to trust the water that for the most part that comes out of your sink that you can drink it. Being able to go and get gas for your car without questioning if there would be enough. I just overlooked all these things that were dependable and ordinary because I had just gotten so used to them. And beyond that, I noticed that when I was at home, I would try to control the uncontrollable, which never works out. I get all frustrated if I was working and there was some inevitable work fire I had to put out or some last minute change and would I hate to admit it, but would let it ruin my day sometimes.
And I lacked the lightheartedness that would allow me to see mishaps as part of the adventure, which was effortless when I traveled. And so one day I was working and I was a couple months out from my next trip and I realized that so much of my time was spent at home being the version of myself that I wasn't the most proud of, and only small amounts of my year were actually spent abroad being my best self. And it felt like just this epiphany where it felt like such a waste to spend my days wishing I was somewhere else instead of enjoying where I was. And I had this realization that it was like I already know how to be the best version of myself because it's effortless when I'm abroad, so I already know I can do it, but how do I bring that home?
How do I bring that version of me everywhere no matter where I am? And what I did is I started to pinpoint the different values that I naturally embodied when I was abroad. And I kind of dubbed it for myself just a traveler's mindset when I was abroad, I adopted this mindset and I figured out for me what that was made up of and tried to bring that home. And it's an ongoing practice, but ever since I made that commitment, I've been experiencing so much more joy in between the trips and it makes me feel like yes, now I'm living life to the fullest because I'm present in each moment. Not just the exceptional, but especially the mundane, the ordinary that we get used to.
Christine: So many good things in what you were just sharing, and thank you for sharing that. I think so many people would relate whether they have had this aha moment for themselves or not, or just listening to you for the first time and seeing that pattern and that behavior. I think so many people have created travel as this place for escape and release or connection to self and connection to nature. But either way you look at it, it's this space that exists somewhere outside of where you live every day. And many of us do spend, and I even remember just admiring people when I was younger that would go work in Alaska for the summer and save a bunch of money and then travel and then they had the next seasonal thing that would get them through the rest of the year. So they would just work crazy for two months and travel four months and then work crazy for two months and travel for four months.
And I thought, wow, that's the dream. But as you're saying that, yes, they were having incredible travel experiences, but what did those two months look like? And then if you're sustaining that long-term, what does that start to create? And then in a more practical way, in most of our lives, maybe we have two weeks of vacation a year if we're really lucky, we have four weeks of vacation a year. And to be working and saving and hoping for those two weeks does start to make the rest of the days that you're living feel sad. I mean to know that you're just placing the value on that time. And then the other thing that you've said, and I noticed this about myself, and you actually, if you listen to the podcast, I probably talk about this moment so many times, but there is that moment for myself with my backpack on and you step off the airplane onto the tarmac wherever you are, and you look around and for me, I'm probably seeing lush green and it's warm and humid where I tend to to go and my whole body just goes, there I am.
And then for me, I'm like, wow, that's such a powerful moment. But as you're describing that, what a sad thing for that not to be when my feet come out of bed and hit the carpet on the floor in the morning that it only exists in this bookend period of time. So I think it's so powerful to think about that. And then the other thing that you were saying, kind of assessing your values, assessing who you are when you travel, digging into what that looks like and then seeing how far apart that is from every day. I think this is such a powerful exercise that anyone can do and we'll talk a little bit about it in a moment as well when we talk about bringing it back home, but I know that's something that I did especially during the pandemic because I was not able to access that perfect bookend me for a while, but I would love to talk about this travel version of self before we go back to seeing how we bring it into our lives. For you, what were some of those things you noticed about that version of yourself that you really wanted to embrace more fully?
Kat: I think one of the biggest, which ties into a lot of the others is that when I traveled and was tapped into my best self, I was openhearted. And that meant no matter what the moment was, I was eager to participate in it, not just watch it on the sidelines or more commonly at home, resist it if it wasn't part of the plan that in the ways I wanted something to go, but I'd accept it and that would involve acknowledging people next to me and having a conversation with a stranger, like setting aside time to be active in the moment before me. And if I'm traveling, let's say I'm at the grocery store, that felt like an adventure in part because it was in a different place. It felt new and exciting, but more so because I was seeking out these moments of connection with the people around me or with the environment around me, and it made it so that spontaneous interactions or situations or experiences started popping up more often because I was seeking out these opportunities to connect and to be really present, not to just look at my phone and check emails while I'm standing in line to try to be more efficient so that I can eventually relax or enjoy the moment or enjoy life, but instead recognize that maybe it's not so much about doing things in the present moment so that my future self can enjoy them by trying to be as efficient as possible, but more so about doing the present self a solid by looking up and engaging in whatever is before me.
The other thing that I would do is I would see mishaps as part of the adventure and the key components to whatever story I would later tell on my trips. The stories that I most frequently tell are usually the ones where something went awry or there was a challenge or something embarrassing happened. Those are the ones that I tell, not the ones where everything went perfectly. And so trying to reduce the amount of time between the event and my positive or appreciative reaction to it. Another thing that I would do is try to get really curious about wherever I was, the people I was with instead of judgmental. I think that when we travel, because we're a guest in someone else's country, we're more patient and eager to understand why. And instead of judging it and saying it's wrong or our way is right, we just kind of see it as a different way and trying to bring that back and especially nowadays when everything is so polarized to try to go into it with a sense of curiosity. Those were some of the main things, just acknowledging that the challenges and unexpected setbacks that sprinkle our days might actually be little gifts that could be turned into adventure or an occasion to rise up and improvise or an occasion to connect with someone or connect with ourselves.
Christine: Yeah, I think again, I feel I can really relate to so many of those things. And as you were talking about meaningful conversation and connection, I definitely, I feel really sorry for my children who will never have a before experience to even compare it to, but we know what it was like to stand in line at the grocery store or the airport or wherever before we had a cell phone. So we know what it used to be like to kind of strike up a conversation with someone around you to not have everybody buried into their cell phone. And so sometimes I crave that and I know I'll sometimes just leave my phone in my bag at the baggage carousel or something and try to make eye contact with someone and force a conversation or even in the grocery store and it just doesn't happen the way it used to.
But also noticing when it does today, I actually, when I went to the grocery store, I parked by this car that I thought was a really beautiful color and just didn't think anything of it. And then as I came out, the woman was loading her groceries into the car next to me as I was mine, and I just thought, I'm just going to engage in conversation. And so I let her know. I'm like, oh, as I pulled in, I just thought your car was so beautiful, it's such a different color. And then we started talking a little bit and then when I left I was like, wow. It felt really nice to just have a moment of connection in my day that I wouldn't have had and another time. And apparently all I ever do is go to the grocery store, which is probably true.
I was with my youngest daughter and this woman walked up to me and she's like, your scarf is so beautiful. Is that handmade? Did you make it? And we kind of talked a little and she's like, it's just so beautiful on you. And then as we walked away, my little girl grabbed my hand and she's like, oh mom, I've never heard someone tell you how lovely your scarf is when we've been somewhere before. And I think she even understood that it was not just the scarf, but how unusual for someone to just come right up and offer a comment like that and start a conversation and she realized that it a beautiful moment.
Kat: Yeah, I think that is the exact thing I'm talking about with being openhearted. It cultivates connection, it cultivates presence. And what I tried to do when I was trying to bring these values back home was looking at these moments of open-heartedness, and I noticed that I would try to talk myself out of doing them, even though I knew the impact they had on people. I'd be like, oh no, they're going to think I'm weird or they seem too busy, or I might be annoying, or all these little excuses. But I've found that the moments when I kind of turn down the volume on that chatter and listen to what my heart is telling me to do, even if it's just a simple compliment, I can see the impact it's making. And it's funny because I have this goal with my life. I want to make a positive impact on the world. I think most people do, and you want to make a difference. And I think a lot of us, at least in this culture feel like in order to do that, it has to be something grand and magnificent and huge acknowledged by the masses. And I think in seeing these little moments of open-heartedness, I've learned that it's not about that for me. My impact is through little moments, little words. It can be much smaller and have a more lasting effect. And a lot of times those moments, the impactful ones are rooted in kindness and curiosity.
Christine: And I mean just thinking that back to the scarf example that she probably just was just a quick moment for her and she probably hasn't thought about it again, but here I am bringing up on this podcast. So clearly it had an impact. And I do think those small moments can be really powerful. And we do feel more of a sense of ease sharing those moments with strangers when we travel than we do every day. And I'm not exactly sure why other than I think that we feel a sense of time and space because we're traveling, so maybe we don't have the same pressures of keeping us so focused.
But also it feels less scary in some ways to just put yourself out there where you'll never see someone again. However, I also have never seen the same person twice at the grocery store. So I don't know what tells us that we can be one way here and not here other than it feels like a full persona that we put on. And the traveling Christine really is excited about those connections. And so like you said, then maybe being aware of that and then saying, okay, how do I recruit that in my life today and every day? And really mapping it out and kind of coaching yourself through it, because otherwise it will be too easy to just let those moments pass. And this is what I would love to talk to you about next. So during the pandemic for myself, I started focusing on something that I called the art of travel, which is very similar to what you're talking about in your book is how do we bring that self to every day?
And so for me, some of those practices were I thinking about how I am moving through the world around me when I travel, which tends to be, as you said, more present tends to be even looking up and out because you don't know where you're going, you don't know exactly what you're looking for. You're not lost in not running on autopilot as you drive to carpool and go get gas and all the things that you might do as you go to work. And then one of the suggestions that I would say is just drive a different way. Just turn left out of your driveway instead of right, and see what happens because you're going to have to respond differently because you can't drop right into autopilot. And then you might start noticing things just around you that you had never been present to before and it might spark joy or if you walk a different way walking your dog, just go a different way and see who you bump into or the coffee shop you might see that you had never seen before, that's one block away from your house or all these little things I think are such easy shifts that bring that awe and that curiosity to the life that you're living today or turn the radio off or don't pick up the cell phone when you have that urge, it's going to force you to bring some of those travel characteristics to life here.
But what do you suggest for people to really bring those pieces back to your daily life?
Kat: Yeah, that's a great point. I would say one of the things that it comes down to is trying to make it a practice of seeing the world around you with fresh eyes. I think in what you were saying before, why is it so much easier to spark up a random conversation with a stranger in another country than at home? And I think that for me, it comes down to comfort levels. When I'm at home, it's like I have routines and things are comfortable and easy and generally go smoothly as long as I stick with those habits, whether they're intentional or not. And when I'm abroad, it's kind of like I choose these trips for the purpose of getting outside of my comfort zone because it breaks free from that autopilot. It forces you to look around and notice things and acknowledge when you're doing things intentionally or not.
And so one of the things that I try to do is put myself in these situations that are outside of my comfort zone. And I am an introverted person when I was just, for most of my life I've been incredibly shy, and that seemed to dissolve when I was in another country and i's like why? It feels like a total mind freeze when I'm at home in a situation where shyness kicks in, but abroad it's like that fog clears and I can actually think and behave and talk in the way that I want. So what's the difference? And it's a lot to do with curiosity and also adopting this belief that I realized when I traveled and now I can do this at home, is seeing that what life is happening for me, not to me. And having that as this security blanket, I can lean into the discomfort of daily life more and pursue these situations where I might have originally shied away from them because I didn't want to come across as, I don't know, awkward or whatever.
And instead be like, even if I am awkward, this is happening for me. All of these things are happening for me. Whether or not that's true, if I really lean into it and believe it, then I can start to see confirmation bias, things that support that belief leaf. So yeah, leaning into these uncomfortable situations to break free from the autopilot so that we can see it with fresh eyes and us doing things like you suggested breaking away from routine. And a lot of people think that creating a habit is difficult, but it's actually so easy and so much of our days is made up of unintentional habits. It is the intentional ones that can be challenging and going through your day and becoming aware of how many things you do just because you've been doing them on repeat. And one of the things that I noticed is that if I get too honed in on this really efficient way of going through my day, then it's time for me to take a little pause and just look around me with my five senses activated.
And that kind of forces me into the present moment. And it could be as simple as what do I feel right now? What am I seeing right now? What am I smelling right now? And it interrupts the autopilot. And another thing that you hinted at earlier, the start of the conversation that's really been helping me to do this is, I know it's cliche, but it's having kids because they are seeing the world around them with fresh eyes. And so they're acting as little reminders like, oh yeah, that is crazy. Look at how the ice formed at the base of our driveway. Instead of being like, oh, it's slippery. It formed this weird icy moat and I can't get rid of it from snow blowing or whatever. It's like, wow, look at how the crystals are forming like that, and it's slippery. This is crazy. And trying to tap into that. And that's an ongoing practice. I wrote this book as a reminder to me because life is set up in a way that it is not conducive to going through daily life with a traveler's mindset. So what I wrote I remind myself of, and luckily having kids is also acting as a reminder for that for me.
Christine: And I had that. I wanted to talk to you about that in particular because I know that is also something for me that really helps me to see the magic. Kids are great at seeing the magic sometimes for me, it's annoyingly so because they're so busy finding the magic that you can't get from point A to point B, but it's incredible. Even when I was traveling with my daughters this summer for the whole summer, and they would just see, especially my youngest, but she would just see everything. I'm like, I even my mind is boggled by the amount of things you must be seeing in every moment. And I'm sure you're not telling me all of them, although you are telling me a lot of them. But she's like, isn't it amazing how many rocks are shaped like hearts? And I actually noticed that that paint spill is also shaped like a heart that's so curious.
What does that mean? Or just like you're saying, oh my gosh, did you notice how these crystals are shaped or these snowflakes are shaped, or they're just constantly seeing things and noticing them because they haven't had time, I guess, to just erase the magic of them, yet they are really seeing everything for the first time. And I love how you were like, oh, that ice at the bottom of the hill is the thing that ruins my day. And they're like, that's the magic. And even when we were traveling and there's all these stray cats, and I was like, oh my gosh, this must be a huge problem here. I wonder why that is. I wonder how they could solve it. And then my kids are just like, there's free family cats everywhere. They're just like, this is the best thing that you could ever have happen.
And I'm like, wow, I just can't imagine feeling that what joy it must be to see everything that way. And even created a mantra when I'm traveling sometimes and feeling that frustration because the weather's bad or the accommodation isn't what you thought it was or whatever I always am, what would Jojo do? And I'm like, oh, she would just be so excited about that weird pillow. Or she'd be so excited about swimming that she wouldn't care. It's raining. And then I'm like, let's do that and see what that sparks. But I'm sure your kids must bring you into that both in your daily life and in travel.
Kat: You know what, I think it's that they are so easily able to experience awe regardless of whether it's something extraordinary or ordinary. It's all the same to them. And maybe that's the big difference. When I'm traveling, I am purposefully trying to find these moments of awe that just light me up and make me feel like, wow, the world is so incredible and at home because of the nature of work and family life and routine, I don't make a point of necessarily as often doing sunrise hikes and checking out these epic views. I still prioritize that, but I get caught up into the routine. And my two and a half year old, it's like I lost count of how many times he experiences awe during the day. And I think that awe is a big contributor to joy. I know a lot of people have heard that the key to joy is gratitude, but isn't that kind of awe in a sense? It is total appreciation for what's before you and honoring it in awe that it is. And so I think that's one of the things that I try to do is not just wait for these once in a lifetime crazy moments to seek out awe, but rather try to find it in the ordinary. And that's how you get more joy in daily life is to be present enough to fully appreciate whatever's before you.
Christine: Yeah, I think awe is such a key part of the power of travel, and I would agree definitely if you can bring that into your daily practice that it's going to shift something. Because I think so many people when they talk about these moments in travel as they're experiencing awe, it's the thing that both shows you that everything is possible in the world and that magic is bigger than we can ever imagine, and beauty is greater than we can ever imagine. And that also somehow shows us that while we're an important part of that, we're not the only part of that. And so it's really a humbling moment I think, and that those moments in travel are the ones that are really precious, the thing that kind of throws you off kilter like that and allows you to see the beauty and allows you to see the simplicity at the same time.
And I do think that's hard for us to do because of just the way we start to process information around us. And I was even thinking earlier, you were talking a little bit about how you might behave one way here and one way when you travel and thinking about the stories that we tell ourselves and here in this life and as this Christine, I have all these stories wrapped around me and all these identities wrapped around me, and those are the things that kind of keep me in this pattern. But when I travel, same as when my feet hits the ground and I have that backpack, I have let go of shy, I have let go of mom, I have let go of PTO, I've let go of all of these things don't exist anymore. I'm just me. And so I think this is one thing I would love to talk to you too, is letting go of those stories that we tell ourself is a really important part of becoming that best version of ourself. And travel, if you're really aware, can show you the things you need to let go of because they're the ones you let go of when you travel. So I'm wondering for you, how do you think travel does help us to see that and how can we let go of some of those things that we keep wrapped around us that sometimes we feel like keeps us safe, but they actually are really keeping us stuck? I think
Kat: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that travel, just in its nature of seeing different ways to do things, different ways to live, it forces us to question our reality. It forces us to question what we consider to be true, whether that be just how we do things or about our country or about our own identities, it forces self-reflection and just awareness of everything. And I think that that part's really hard is letting go the different parts of you at home when you're not traveling. I think that's probably one of the bigger challenges. Like you said, it's as soon as your feet hit the tarmac, it's like, ah, here I am. And it's effortless. But what about when you're back at home and you're bombarded with all of this horrible news and the stresses and dramas of daily life? It's like when we travel, we can just go, ah, this is only for a little bit, so I need to take full advantage and I'll address that when I get back home.
So how do you do that when you're back at home, when it's not like this little escape where you can experience joy regardless of all the drama back at home? And I'm still kind of working on that and trying to figure it out, but one of the things that I try to do is there's this process by Byron Katie, I'm not sure if you're familiar with her, and it's a series of questions that you ask yourself and you could just do it in your mind or journal about it. And I don't remember specifically what they are. You can Google it and she has them available, but it's all about questioning if something is really a hundred percent true, and I do that a lot with any issues and relationships or when my ego steps in and starts to get into self-righteous mode of how others are wrong or I'm right or whatever, or even situations how scary the world can seem sometimes with mass shootings and the state of the environment, it can be really scary, especially wondering what the future is going to hold for the next generation or the generation thereafter.
And to fall into this feeling of despair around it. You can't make a difference. You can't make a change. And I try to ask those, the Byron Katie questions and sit with it, is it a hundred percent certain? Am I absolutely sure this is true? How would I feel if I thought the opposite a lot better? Why don't I try to do that? And just kind of trying to question everything and have that belief that life is happening for me at the root of it. And it doesn't mean that I'm ignoring all the devastation in the world and everything like that. It just means that it's okay to hold to completely contradicting emotions at the exact same time, two feelings about different things, worry, immense, worry about the future, and also joy for the present. It's possible to do both at the same time. I think most of us grow up thinking that we only have one emotion at once. I see that with my kid in different programs or whatever. I am happy, just happy in this moment. I am sad. And I realize now it's like, man, I'm everything at once and I'm also nothing just trying to be okay with that and recognize that I can be too polar opposite things at the exact same time, and that acceptance brings peace.
Christine: I'm like, oh, so good. I feel like I'm going to just need to go back and listen to this for my own self. But I think that that's so powerful and understanding ourselves. And like you said, I think especially that two things can exist at the same time because I think that's because we let go of the weight perhaps of our daily existence when we travel, we can just experience that joy. But we do have to experience joy in our everyday routine regardless of the weight that we're carrying and whether that weight is how on earth do I get my kids to every single activity that is happening at the same time and make dinner and sleep and all the things, or if it's big substantial weight that we're seeing in the world every day to realize that we still get to have joy. And I think it's so hard because it feels like if I take my piece of joy, I'm ignoring the fact there's so many people that can't find that piece of joy right now.
And I think it's really interesting to figure out how to be both things. And I know for myself, even I'm a joy killer in my own life when I'm not traveling and even sometimes when I'm traveling because I feel like because there's so much happening, if I have this immense joy, I better tackle on some hardship to it, which is I think even where kind of the funny worst thing that happens, scenario stories come up with travel. Because if I just tell you how amazing my travel experiences, I feel a little guilty about that. But if I tell you my luggage got lost, I had to wait in line, I got food poisoning and all this of a sudden, it's okay that I had this incredible travel experience because also I had all this hardship tangled up inside of it. And again, I'm sure there's probably so many greater explanations for why we do this, but I think it's really important for people to just again, reflect on who they are, how they are, and then you can start to see more intentionally what you want to create every day. Because that's kind of how we get to the bottom of it is a lot of reflection. And I think that's part of why so many of us love travel is it does give us that moment to kind of untangle things because you are away from it and you can see yourself a little bit more clearly.
Kat: Yes, exactly.
Christine: Yeah. Well, this has been such a beautiful conversation. I appreciate it so much. I think we probably could have found a few more things to really dive into, but I have loved sharing this time with you. Before we end, I would love if you have one other thing that is just thing that you most would want to share with my listeners to give you the space to just add that role of wisdom to the end of our conversation.
Kat: So I would say this is kind of just popping up a lot for me lately, where we place our attention and I think so much in our life is trying to get our attention and I've been trying to be a better guard to my mind, my time, my attention, my presence. And I think we actively have to work towards that because so much, especially our phones, our screens, everything like that, just daily life tries to draw away from it and to try to be aware of it where it's going and whether it's halfway there or a hundred percent there. And this is just something starting this year I've been trying to focus on more. Is my attention divided or am I fully focused on what's happening? Because I've noticed that when I have my attention divided and I'm looking back on my days or my weeks or my years, I can't remember things clearly.
And I'm at a stage in my life where I don't want to miss things and I want to have little moments that I remember as well as a photograph. And when I have my attention divided, it's gone. I just can't remember. And maybe that's also the fog of motherhood right now, I can't remember anything, but I am trying to be more purposeful in what I'm doing and specifically, and I think that comes down to just really activating my five senses. And years ago I attended this talk by naturalist and also author John Muir Laws, and he was talking about how when you're outside, if you really want to remember something that you're seeing, most of our reaction is let's take a photo of it or we'll take a video and then we won't forget it. But when you rely on your phone or your camera to capture and record that moment your mind, which is an incredible thing, your brain is an efficiency machine and it goes, ah, you don't have to work as hard on the phone or the camera.
And as a result, you remember that moment when you look at that picture, but not just in your mind. And so he suggested to remember the three eyes when you're looking at a moment, you want to remember maybe it's sunset over a lake and it's just stunning, like rainbow sherbert colors or maybe it's just watching your family interact and hearing their laughter over something silly. My 2-year-old recently learned that farts can be called barking spiders, so that's been fun. Thank you, Jeff. And what you do is if you want to really remember this moment, you can pull out your phone and take a picture, but also, or instead do the three is I wonder have that statement. I wonder when he's going to realize that spiders don't bark or I notice, notice that when he laughs little bit of tears for him and he gets dimples and it reminds me of, and then you think of something that it reminds you of, oh, when I was a kid or in the example of the sunset, I wonder, I notice it reminds me of and drawing your attention to those three statements, it sticks it in your mind and tells your brain, Hey, pay attention to this.
This is important. My phone may have gotten this moment, but I want my brain to do it too. And having that as a practice of acknowledging where your attention is, where it's going, it can make you feel more present, more prone to these moments of awe, more joy and as a result feel like you are living life to your fullest. Even if you aren't doing some extravagant thing, you're present for what's happening. And I think that's the whole point.
Christine: Thank you. That was a beautiful note to end on and I had heard of the Five Senses and I do that one often, but I love the last one that you just shared, so thank you for sharing that practice with us. Before we end, I have a few rapid fire or rapid fire ish questions before we wrap up our time together. So the first question is, what are you reading right now?
Kat: I am in between books, but I just reread the whole Harry Potter series and I prolonged the last two chapters of Book seven. I wasn't ready for it to end, but last night I finally finished it and I was like, oh man, it's so good. I hadn't read it since they first came out, but I leaving on a trip on Thursday in a couple of days, just me and my six month old to Prague and Germany. And so I'm trying to find a historical fiction that's based in that area. So if you have any recommendations after the call, I'd love, I love reading books about where I'm going, especially historical fiction.
Christine: Yeah, it's a great way to get your mind into the space that you're in. I stated a few places while traveling, and they often have in VRBO books that are kind of like that. They're a fiction, but they're about the area and then it's kind of fun to read it. Then you're like, oh, I know what they're talking about because I've seen it and experienced it. And Harry Potter, I would love to read again, as you were just saying that I'm like, oh, I haven't read all of those forever either. I used to read the books before when the next one would come out, so I'd reread one and then two, and then one, two, and then three and 1, 2, 3, and then four. Then that got to be too much of a commitment, but it would be great to read them all again. The next question, what is always in your suitcase when you travel
Kat: Journal? I, from that first trip when I was 17, my best friend at the time gave me a journal a day before I left, and I didn't even consider packing one, and she unintentionally set the course for my love of writing, and ever since then, every time I travel, I bring a journal and I have a fat stack of 'em, and I make it a point when I'm traveling, I journal every single day to make sure that I don't forget a thing, and it's come in handy a lot, especially restaurants where the food was just outstanding and writing down all the little details that you tend to forget as time passes.
Christine: Yeah, I wish I was better at that. You always think, I'll never forget this and you totally do. Oh yeah. Well, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is someplace you would still live to Sojourn?
Kat: Oh man, that's a really hard question. So many places I find myself going back time and again to different countries in South America. I love the culture there and the food and the people and the music and everything. So it is been years, but I think I'd love to go back actually to Columbia and Sojo there.
Christine: Yeah. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Kat: Oh, this one's actually an easy question. I pano shock lot and basically having that first trip in France, man, the food was unreal. It was my first experience with Nutella and I put that on everything and just their pastries are amazing. And so I kind of have this thing where if I try a really spectacular traditional item from a country and it's just amazing, then everywhere I go, if I see it on the menu, I have to get it just to see if it's as good. And I spent years looking for a traditional French pan, and it wasn't until I was living in Argentina 15 years later that I found this little hole in the wall bakery that was completely unassuming, like beige walls, graffiti on the outside, really small. And I went in there and first off they had a pano chala, which was surprising for an Argentine bakery, but then they had all these pastries that were culture combos, like a croissant filled with Che. Oh, can you imagine? And so I got a whole bunch of stuff and I tried the pan Chala is like my standard. Let's see how good this place is, and it was so good. I had to sit down on the curb where I was just to fully enjoy it and I started making regular, I became a regular of that bakery and I found out that the owner was actually from France and then married a woman from Buenos Aires and started this bakery, and then they combined their cultures and it was epic.
Christine: Oh my goodness. Yep. There's a French bakery here that has some really, really, really good pastries that every once in a while I will allow myself to go to because it has that. That's
Kat: A daily life too.
Christine: Yes. Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Kat: I think my parents, I would say growing up, it was when I was really little. My mom always tells this story that when I was three, she asked what I wanted for my birthday and I said I wanted a globe piggy bank, and I always dreamed about exploring the world and adventuring going to places, never about getting married and finding Prince Charming that wasn't really on my radar, and they both encouraged me to pursue these travels and I, I'm grateful that I didn't have to combat limiting beliefs of my parents on what's possible or what I should do or where I could go when I could go in my life. It was always kind of like, oh, you're going to do that by yourself. A little bit of shock, some precautions of I'd be careful, or this and that, and then usually like, well, let's try to figure out if it's possible to visit or how you're going to do this and help me navigate it, so they encouraged my wanderlust.
Christine: Yeah, I think when kids see that possibility, it's so great that they just believe that the world is available to them and like you said, not having to feel like they're going against their parents' wishes or something they believe isn't open to them or isn't. Okay. It's great to not have that happen, especially I think in the context of travel. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Kat: Just one person. This is tough. I'm going to say kind of bend the rules and just say, my family. I would love to go with my husband and two boys. We haven't gone on a family trip yet, all four of us since the youngest was born, but on the trips that I did before he was born, they're made up of some of my favorite memories, so I would say those three.
Christine: Yeah. The Soul of Travel is for really honoring and recognizing women in the travel and tourism industry. Is there anyone that you would love to recognize in this space?
Kat: Yes. This is actually an easy question. There's a woman, Alex Reynolds, who has a website and Instagram and following called Lost With Purpose, and I feel like she is this modern day explore, pushing the limits of what's possible. She is a solo traveler and right now primarily is in Pakistan and that area, and she's taking her dirt bike through all these countries and following her journey, she's been doing this for years, has just been fascinating and a realization of, there's so many reasons why people would be like, you can't do that. Like, oh, a woman by yourself, that's so dangerous. A woman on a bike in these countries where you hear about the treatment of women and all these reasons, and she just kind of proves that there's always going to be an excuse not to do something, but if you're really driven and your heart's telling you to do it, there's always a reason to do it. There's always going to be someone doing it, maybe not as many people, but she's proving that with so many people thinking that it is too dangerous or too scary or not a good idea or whatever she's saying, well, watch me. And it's inspiring.
Christine: Thank you. Thank you for mentioning her, and yeah, just thank you once again for this conversation. I'm so glad that we were connected and able to share this time today, and I really hope that many of my listeners pick up your book and learn from your stories and that they're inspired by this conversation to really understand how important travel is in our lives, but how, also how important it is to bring all that joy that we find into our life every day and not wait just for those moments when we're traveling.
Kat: Thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation, so thank you for having me on.
Christine: Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel, presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.
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