Episode 195 - Annika Paradise, Wonder Year
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Annika Paradise.
Annika caught the travel bug young, devouring maps like her peers did novels. As a Peace Corps Volunteer in Thailand, and later as a student travel guide with Where There Be Dragons, she witnessed the transformational power of cross-cultural immersion and wanted to share the experience with her family. Annika has taught preschool, middle and high school, led summer experiential trips and currently teaches English at Front Range Community College. She holds an MA in Education from Stanford University and an MFA in Creative Writing from Vermont College of Fine Arts. When she’s not dreaming of the next big trip, Anni enjoys reading and writing middle grade novels and adventuring in the outdoors. She is also co-owner of Paradise Found Record Shop in Boulder, Colorado.
Annika and her husband, Will, world schooled their three children across three continents and twelve countries, including Nepal, Laos, China, Cambodia, New Zealand, Costa Rica, Italy, and Greece. With a cello.
Annika’s Journey and Travel Perspective
Annika’s background is a fascinating journey marked by an insatiable travel bug, a fearless foray into the Peace Corps, and deep experiences in refugee resettlement programs. Annika’s early travel experiences began with her father, who embraced a nomadic lifestyle across the U.S., and laid the foundation for her lifelong passion for travel.
When Annika found herself in Krabi, Thailand in 1992, working with her students there, she wanted to “equip them with the knowledge and cross-cultural understanding that would benefit them, rather than some of these kinds of multinational groups that were going to be coming in with hotels and things like this.”
Transformational Travel and the Wonder Year
Drawing on her rich experiences with travel and her passion for connecting with people around the world, Annika and her husband embarked on a year-long journey with their three children, exploring three continents and seven countries. This intentional deep dive into varied cultures not only enriched their lives but ignited a spark to share their learnings through "Wonder Year." The premise was simple yet profound: enable families to dream big and transform those dreams into reality with minimal hassle.
“I think one of the things we go through in the book, and one of the things that has really informed how I think about kind of world schooling education with your kids throughout the world is it's important to learn from others rather than about others. And I think that's what goes, takes us from the classroom learning about culture to the world, learning about culture.”
The world isn’t full of places; it’s full of people.
Annika’s first-hand immersion into local cultures, such as living amongst Thai Buddhists and Muslims, highlights the richness that comes from truly engaging with people, not just places.
Christine and Annika both share a number of beautifully transformative moments from their travels. You won’t want to miss Minute 21:00, when Annika describes particularly the poignant experience of her adopted daughter in China, who found a deep sense of pride in her heritage while on the Great Wall. It's these moments, when our children connect with their roots in such palpable ways, that illuminate the true magic of travel.
“I think all of our kids have taken away this understanding of the world as a place that's full of good and kind people. And there's, you know, everything that's coming at us as American consumers of media is telling us to be a bit afraid…but I feel like what my kids walked away from with that year is that there’s goodness and kindness. It’s everywhere in this world, and you will just be blown away by how much people are going to come with you with offers to do this, and that, and this, and that.”
How to Afford Long-Term Travel with Your Family
If you’re hoping to travel abroad with your family on a budget, Annika’s book is a fantastic resource! She has a full chapter dedicated to her own financial strategy for affording long-term travel with her family, and includes some of the practices she has seen other families employ. Home shares, renting your home, saving ahead of time, and taking advantage of off-season and shoulder season travel rates.
“The biggest question slash misconception about long-term family travel is that it’s only something for the uber-wealthy. And that’s what you see on social media. You see the glitzy family that seems to have endless resources, but the majority of families doing this are not uber wealthy.
Family Dynamics and Re-Entry after Long-Term Family Travel
Annika emphasizes the often-overlooked aspects of family dynamics and re-entry. Traveling full-time significantly alters family roles and requires foresight to navigate potential tensions. “It’s different from a two-week summer vacation, she shares. “Before we left on our trip, I was a stay-at-home mom with three kids, and I did all the leg work around the house…You have to think about those roles.”
With re-entry, it’s far too easy to push off ideas of coming home. “Your worldview will shift. You go back into the life and the context you came from. There’s going to be some tension. There’s going to be some change.”
Planting the Seed of Possibility
Both Christine and Annika share that they believe their children have learned, even in seemingly small ways, to see their lives with a global view–from connecting with others to seeking different perspectives to understanding that every group of people has a unique history. “When I look at my own memories, it's always people,” shares Christine. “Those simple moments of connection. And I think again, I think that's why it's so important early on is because then our small humans are prepared to be engaged global citizens because they have context and they have connection and they feel this deep tie to other places in the world.”
Whether you’re planning a year-long escapade with your family or simply seeking to travel more mindfully, you’ll want to add Wonder Year to your reading list.
“It’s important to learn from others rather than about others. And I think that’s what takes us from the classroom, learning about culture, to the world, learning about culture.”
Soul of Travel Episode 195 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Annika discuss:
· Annika’s early travels, including her time in Thailand in the Peace Corps
· Annika’s long-term family travel and world schooling experience
· How guiding other children in transformative adventures set the stage for wanting to provide this for her own children
· Some of the expected and unexpected outcomes from global family travel
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Annika Paradise.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Purchase your copy of Wonder Year: A Guide to Long-Term Family Travel and Worldschooling at Amazon or your local bookseller.
Get to know the authors on the Wonder Year Travel website.
Follow Wonder Year Travel on Instagram and Facebook.
Connect with Annika on LinkedIn.
A special thanks to this week’s partner, SafetyWing! Ever since I was traveling with my girls in 2023, I have added SafetyWing to my business and family travels to ensure we are covered when we need it. I hope you’ll choose their Nomad Insurance the next time you plan international travel! Be sure toclick here for more information.
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Soul of Travel Episode 195 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm your host, Christine. And today is an extra special episode for me because I am speaking with Annika Paradise, who is one of the co authors of a book that I packed around with me on my travels called Wonder Year. And I'm holding it up for people watching YouTube.
If you're listening to the podcast, you'll have to find, find the book so you can see what it looks like. Um, but it is a guide to long term family travel and I think really intentionally creating mindful travel experiences for families. Um, it's a resource I was lucky to use when traveling with my three daughters.
So I can't wait to begin this conversation and bring a little bit of a different perspective to Responsible travel to the podcast. So welcome, Anika.
Annika: Oh, it's so lovely to be here. Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
Christine: Yeah. And we were really beautifully connected by a mutual friend of ours. Kathy dragon, who listeners might recognize if they've listened to that episode. Um, and we met at the Denver travel show a few years ago. And as I mentioned, I was preparing to travel with my daughters and, um, you came up and told me about your book.
And then so graciously. Um, And so just to give a little bit of context about this, I, uh, I think of this, um, as a presentation, because I know I'm doing this on a call that I'm supposed to be on. So I'm gonna kind of give an overview of this book and then speak about my own experience Not to my knowledge, another resource exactly like this out there.
So one, that's really important. And two, just the unique perspective that you have. And we'll get into that a little bit later, but I want to start with some of your background first. Before we get going, I'm going to turn it over to you and let you introduce yourself and tell my listeners just a little bit more about who you are.
Annika: Sure. Yeah. Thank you. It's so great to be here. . So I, um, I had the travel bug from the time I was young and, um, I did some kind of long term family travel as a kid. I was raised by a single father who kind of toted my sister and I along. We also did a lot of domestic travel throughout the U. S. in our VW van, kind of like the one in Little Miss Sunshine.
And so, you know, throughout my life, I just kind of, you know, wanted to learn through travel. And that was just a really powerful, experience. Educational classroom for me the entire, uh, my entire life. So, after college I went into the Peace Corps, I was in Thailand. Um, I was in the South of Thailand and so learned a lot about, uh, the impact of the travel industry, um, from that angle of trying to prepare my public school students, to meet this demand.
So I was in Krabi, Thailand. Um, And then when I came back, I was a public school teacher and, uh, also worked in the summers for a student travel organization called where there be dragons. , that's what got me to move to Boulder. Actually. They're based right here in Boulder, Colorado, and, um, raised three of my own kids and just kept thinking, how can I extend that same life lesson that I received.
From travel to my, to my, my own children. And so my husband and I pulled our kids out of school for a year and traveled or through three continents and seven countries in a year, which sometimes feels like slow travel and sometimes feel like feels like fast travel. When we came back, I realized that, Everything I learned on how to do that, which was the best experience of my life.
And I think everyone in my family would agree it was the, the highlight of our lives that year. Um, that I learned everything from two friends in particular, and it's very hard to figure out how to actually pull this off. And so when we came, I kept looking for that book when I was preparing. I couldn't find it on Amazon, um, kept poking around blogs and chat rooms and everything and I couldn't find an actual resource.
So after a while, I kept thinking, gosh, you know, someone's going to write this book any day. And then when I got home and no one had written it, I reached out to two of the women who really helped me the most and said, Do you want to write a book with me? We should, this needs to be out there. And so that the intention of the book is if, if somebody has that as a dream, we want to make sure that we give you everything we can to help you make that dream into a reality.
And so that's the tone and the intention of the book.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to go back and talk to you cause I know you had done the Peace Corps in Thailand. And then in your bio too, you mentioned that you worked in a refugee resettlement area or program. And I'm just wondering how you think those experiences shaped how you view travel and what it looks like to move about the world.
Cause I feel like if you have those two experiences that are so, you know, you're, you're somewhere else, but you're not really traveling. And then you're helping people to become a part of a new community and a new way of life. Living your you kind of you just have a very different lens about what it like feels like to move around the world, and I'm just wondering how that influences travel for you and and how you participate kind of as a global citizen moving through the world and through communities.
Annika: Yeah, sure. Well, I'll say, so again, I was in, uh, Krabi, Thailand, which is, you know, a, It's just massively popular with tourism. And I, I was there, gosh, it was like November of 92 that I arrived in Krabi, Thailand and Railay beach, which many of your listeners have probably gone to was opening its first guest house.
And I helped them translate their menu, you know, and now of course there's, you know, roads and all kinds of things. But, um, I'll say that that perspective of working with my students and really knowing that this is going to be a, um, I wanted them to have, gosh, some ownership or some agency with the tourism that I knew was going to be coming at them.
And I wanted, you know, I wanted to equip them with the language and the cultural kind of cross cultural understanding that would, that would benefit them rather than some of these kind of multinational groups that were going to be coming in with, with hotels and things like this. But I think even before then, I remember, I had the gift of speaking Thai.
I was pretty fluent, um, by the time I finished Peace Corps training. And sided understanding of the Westerners, which I understand, is equal on our side.
It must be. Right. So trying to really, you know, we're, we're also multidimensional and there's such diversity within, within us. So I feel like that really shaped how I move, have moved around the world, knowing that misperception that they had, you know, go speak for them. Everybody who has skin like yours must be the same language.
Um, I carry that with me.
Christine: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is a really, I've traveled to the same area as well. So I'm very familiar with what you're speaking about. Not much longer after you, you had been there. So I love our paths nearly crossed. Um, and I'm familiar with that word, but I never like, I heard it in relation to me. Right. But I never thought about it as this kind of all encompassing word.
So that is really interesting to think, to think about. And I guess even if you think about it, Where we are and when visitors come or outsiders come, they, they do kind of all of a sudden fall in this very uniform category of just outsider. And how does that have you treat people when they just fit so neatly and just to this, this kind of other outsider category, we don't really know how to relate to it.
And especially if you're not breaking it down and understanding the nuances of each of those travelers, it makes it very hard to relate. But then as. As travelers, not understanding those nuances also can really be keeping you from having such a powerful experience or it, you know, it's a, it's a very easy way to just almost keep yourself safely moving through something to easily.
erase those nuances. But I think what we're finding now that that is what's really important in general to understand. I mean, even the language, since you and I are early travels, there weren't even words to describe a lot of the things that we talk about that seem and feel really important now. And they all like lead to To kind of pulling apart that nuance and understanding experiences.
So I can't imagine. I just felt like that must be a very powerful moment. Like it seems kind of simple, but for you to have been on the inside of that in a way that many of us wouldn't have had that experience. I think that that is really incredible. And Also thinking, like I've never really heard someone talk about how they're preparing a local community to receive tourists before, or this vision you have of the tools they might have needed to be able to support tourism, and for me that feels like also a real gift for you to have that insight when you're traveling, because I think it gives you more grace towards The people you're engaging with later.
Do you, do you feel like it, it gives you a little bit of that when you were traveling?
Annika: Definitely, definitely. And even, you know, I had some friends who then went up to work in Laos and they were doing kind of, um, cultural training and they would have like all these kind of, um, , you know, beautifully produced graphic designs of, you know, it's important not to sit on printed material. It's important not to touch somebody's head.
And, um, just having that. Kind of understanding that people are going to make mistakes both ways. And to prepare the local, local population for this influx of tourism. And it's interesting because I've been able to go back to my Peace Corps village and that entire area of Kribi, um, and even Laos multiple times, uh, through, you know, work as, , As I've aged and so has the area and tourism aged, , but it's just been so fascinating to see how all of that plays out and, you know, going back to, you know, that example, um, there are both Buddhist and, you know, Thai Buddhist and Thai Muslims in that area.
And there's an incredible tension. Not tension so much, but, , they are such different cultures, but we see them as one. They see us as one. And so kind of, you know, breaking that down has been really interesting. And in the case of Laos and so many other places, there are indigenous groups. As well as kind of, you know, the, the people from the Capitol or the, the, you know, the, the dominant population.
So I think just be kind of breaking that down as much as possible and giving grace that there's diversity on, on all sides. And nobody is a monolith. And I think one of the things we go through in the book, and one of the things that has really informed how I think about kind of world schooling.
education with your kids throughout the world is it's important to learn from others rather than about others. And I think that's what goes, takes us from the classroom learning about culture to the world, learning about culture. Yeah.
Christine: As I was preparing for what I wanted to share with my kids, that was kind of the distinction in my own mind, is that there's just no better way to learn about the world than to be in it, right? There's only so much you can read without, like, touching and feeling and, Smelling and engaging.
It just doesn't mean anything. It'd be like reading a cookbook and never baking. You would have no idea. Like, there's just no way to actually understand it if you haven't experienced it. And the, the thing that started this all for me actually, I'll just share this, I don't think I've shared it on the podcast before, but I was in Africa.
Um, right after I finished, finished my master's degree and I went with my employer at the time and we went to speak at a conference in Uganda. And then she had, , children that she had been sponsoring through a program that she'd been in touch with their whole lives since they were small children. And the, her oldest son, as she called him, was going to college.
So we went to his university and then we traveled with him to Kenya to meet his, siblings and they, we were outside of Nairobi and they took us, , where they had grown up and, um, they had a very difficult childhood. Um, and so learning from them about their experience was really powerful, but we went to the slum where their school was.
And when we were there, Um, they were, you know, reconnecting with some of the kids in their school and the children wanted to perform for us and there happened to be another one of our colleagues in the tourism industry who showed up and he had his two young children and they like immediately joined into the singing, started running around playing and I just, at that point I was pretty young, I think I was in my early twenties, but I just remember like, Oh my gosh, these children, their perspective of the world is going to be forever shifted by this, like, simple exchange. Whether their dad speaks to them about what's happening or not, like, they have had this unique experience of, one, seeing a slum in Kenya, which, for those of us that haven't had that experience, is deeply impactful to understand. What that means when you talk about it or hear about it or read about it, but then for them to also have this like human to human connection and be able to just like, regardless of everything that was happening around them, sing and play.
Like for me, I was like, if I ever have kids, I want them to have this experience because. I think nothing else could prepare them for being a good citizen than to have this deep understanding that we are the same, that like, like joy and love and song like transcends everything. And in that moment, I just, I would, my mind was blown.
I could not believe that these kids were having this experience. So like later when I did have kids, that was my catalyst. I'm like, I want my kids to have. These moments. And so for you, why was it important for you to take your kids? Like once you had them and, and realize this could be an opportunity, what was like your moment that stirred that up?
Annika: Oh, such a good, that's such a great experience. And I agree wholeheartedly. I've got about six different ways to answer that question, but I'll start with, you know, when I worked for Where There Be Dragons, , I would take, students, a lot of them were from kind of, um, you know, very elite boarding schools in the United States over to Thailand and Laos for us for a six week program.
On the flight over, most of the conversation was about really this experience as a means to get into college, or I'm going to write my essay on this topic. And, you know, what are your REACH schools? What are your backup schools? You know, this was kind of the conversation that I overheard on the flight over.
You know, on those programs, we did homestays, we did language learning every morning, we did service projects, we lived on the income of the local population, you know, for three days, like, no, you can't afford that ice cream bar, like all of those kinds of experiences, the flight home. Was usually what am I going to do to make an impact in the world?
How am I going to make the world a better place? Nobody was talking about their essays. Nobody was talking about, you know, their read schools or backup schools. It completely shifted the mindset. And for me, that's the power of travel. Like, how do you know who you are until you are lifted from your context and to have that experience as a young person.
Like, it was such a privilege for me to experience that with them. I wanted to be that person for my own kids. I wanted, I, I didn't, maybe selfishly, I didn't want to give that to somebody else. I wanted that. And I wanted it to be as young as possible.
Christine: Oh, that's so amazing. And it, I think the other thing, and we can talk about, you know, more of your experience traveling with your family, but like you said, not handing that over, watching the world come alive for them is. It's just unexplainable. Like for me, my, my daughters really wanted to go to Paris.
And typically when I travel, I had never even been to Europe until like the last two years. So I really have enjoyed my travels in South America and Asia. And I have not really spent a lot of time in big cities. Like I love more rural travel and community based travel. And so like, I was like, yeah, Paris will be cool, but it was definitely not on my list of like, I have to see it.
And the taxi driver, when we went from the airport to the train station because we were actually going to go south of Paris and stay with a friend of mine for a few days. Um, I don't know if he always does this or if he understood my girl's excitement, but he went a little bit different way so they could go right by the Eiffel Tower.
And when they saw it, like, outside the window, when they were, like, grabbing each other and pointing and just, like exploding with excitement because it's something that for whatever reason in their lives was something they really wanted to see. And to see them see it made it important to me, you know,
Annika: Yes. It looks,
Christine: there
was,
Annika: it kind of three dimensional or like you experience not only your own joy, but their joy. Right. excitement and passion and it makes travel exponentially more interesting, I think.
Christine: yeah. And it just, it changed your perspective on so many things. And, and I think in general, traveling with a group for me, I find that happens as well. Cause everybody again has their own experiences. Um, So, um, I just, I think it's, I think it's really important to have that kind of experience and lens and, and whether something is maybe difficult or challenging or emotional for you or not, like you can witness someone else's response and, and kind of like piggyback on their experience.
So it adds more depth. And so I was aware of that with traveling with adults. But with my kids, I just didn't realize how much. I would gain from their experience of travel. Um, I, I just wonder if you have any experience for you that maybe a way that they, their perspective on something really changed.
your view of, of something in after the experience.
Annika: Yeah, well there's, I can think of a few different examples, but you know, one of them, I mean, a powerful, powerful experience for us is our middle daughter is adopted from China. And, um, we were so, um, just so happy that at that time, you know, we, we could take her back to China. We visited her orphanage at the very end of the trip, but we had, um, a guide with us who was a PhD student.
We just randomly found each other and made our own arrangements, but she was fluent. Um, and she could even make like reservations. You know, through the Chinese equivalent of like Airbnb. Um, so we really got off the tourist track and we went hiking on the Great Wall for an entire day without seeing another human.
We had these just amazing experiences. And my daughter, you know, you, you hear so, she had heard so much, maybe negative things about China from people here. Like things. from China are not well made or the Chinese government isn't, you know, ethical or whatever. There's kind of a negative message that at her age she was receiving about China.
And this moment of her sitting on the Great Wall saying, I am so proud to be Chinese. And I was like, okay, this whole year is worth it. That was it, right? I mean, so powerful. And that, so that was an amazing experience. And I think that she has carried that with her. I have so many more, but I think I'm going to, I'm going to round up the other group of those to be that, um, I think all of our kids have taken away this understanding of the world as a place that's full of good and kind people.
And there's, you know, everything that's coming at us as American consumers of media is telling us to be a bit afraid. And, you know, there's, uh, there's, you know, looming issues, but I feel like what my kids walked away from it that year is that there's goodness and kindness. It's everywhere in this world and you will just be blown away by how much people are going to come with you with offers to do this and that and this and that like, you know, come on in and wash your dishes while we were in a camper van.
in New Zealand or, you know, just the goodness and kindness of the world.
Christine: I think as you were explaining that too, I think what happened for my children is they understood that the world isn't full of places. It's full of people.
Annika: um,
Christine: And I think, you know, when you're little and you look at a map, you just see the places on the map, right? And those are the things that you kind of idyllically seek.
And once you get there. Then you have those moments and when I ask them their favorite things, you know, they'll they're like I loved that guy that worked at the restaurant in Croatia that brought us the pizza all the time and he thought it was so funny that we kept coming back to that restaurant That's That would never be what I would think when you talked about all of the beautiful things we saw in that country that they would remember.
It is almost always, and when I look at my own memories, it's always people. Like it's those. Those simple moments of connection. And I think again, I think that's why it's so important early on is because then our small humans are prepared to be engaged global citizens because they have context and they have connection and they feel this deep tie to other places in the world.
And it's not so easy for them, kind of like you were saying, to just create those connections. It's just not so easy to build them around
Annika: yes, exactly. And, you know, you think about, you know, early, you know, elementary school, you're learning about the world and it's like, You know, the, the flag and the language, you know, you go through those things, but you don't think about kind of, you know, the humans there. And I totally agree that it's really, you know, peep it's people, not the governments that's out there in the world.
And the people are different from the government and the world is full of good people. There's nothing really to be afraid of.
Christine: Yeah. And I think maybe that's a something they'll understand later. I think some of us even in our own travels, it takes a while before you, you realize that, but it is so helpful because yes, you do, you really see the difference. And I think it's also helpful then for you to see that in your own country, which I was talking with another guest about.
That is, you know, we often, we put these, these beautiful, like wide open. Like hearts and eyes and we're ready for these experiences moving out in the rest of the world, but we don't have that same level of maybe wide openness in our backyard. And so she and I were talking because she was traveling a lot more in the U.
S. and she's like, I found that if I can bring that openness to this experience, it really actually helps me break down some of my own, you know, beliefs or these things that have been created for me here, which is also really beneficial.
Annika: You know, I'll say that when we came back from our year, I guess the first spring break, we all said, you know, we've seen all of these places in the world, but I've never been to the American South. And so that's what we did for spring break. And we, we traveled kind of with that lens of world travelers.
open minded, open hearted that we might not have been able to do had we not done our year?
Christine: Yeah, I think it's really amazing.
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Christine: Um, well, I wanted to ask you, what is one of the most common questions you get asked by readers or people you're connecting with as you're doing events and promoting the book? Um, and then, you know, what, how do you answer whatever that question is?
Annika: That's a great, that's a great question. Um, I think I'll, you know, for personal travels, um, I usually get asked the question, what's your favorite place? And, um, , you know, for that, you know, it's just kind of depending on the person or the day because it's really hard to narrow that down. But for the book, I will say that the biggest question we get is, how do people afford this? Is this something that's only for the wealthy? I think that's the assumption. Like long term family travel, it must just be for wealthy people. And it's just simply not true. We really, we have a whole section in the book about kind of the money question. Like how do people do this? People do it on all different kinds of budgets.
Um, you know, my husband and I knew we wanted to do this and we saved up for it as we would And so we felt like, you know, this ultimately is going to be one of the, probably the best education we can give our kids. And so we, we had it with that lens and we saved up for it that way. Um, You know, the most common way that people do this is if they are lucky enough to own their home, they rent it, and you can travel around a lot of this, this world, um, off that rent, depending on, you know, where you live.
A lot of people do home exchanges. Um, a lot of people do house sitting where you actually can either stay for free, um, you know, or they're actually getting paid to house sit someone's home around the world. Um, a lot of people work remotely. Uh, we go through different scenarios of different, you know, families and how they've made it work.
But I think that that is the biggest. The biggest question slash misconception about long term family travel is that it's only something for the uber wealthy. And that's what you see on social media. You see the glitzy family that seems to have endless resources, but the majority of families doing this are not uber wealthy,
Christine: Yeah. And I think with within that, you know, the slower you move, the less money you spend, which also becomes the richer the experience, right? Because if you can rent someplace for a whole month, Then it's less expensive than renting it for five nights. Um, sometimes it's almost the same price for five nights in one whole month.
Um, and then, um, one of the things that we looked at, but we didn't get to do was one of the work exchange programs. We were looking at like a, an olive, um, grove in Greece where you would go and you would work a certain number of hours a day, and then you would have the rest of the time to explore and exchange for a place to stay.
And. A couple of the ones we looked at, they had younger children, so they actually wanted a family to come that had a little bit older kids to play with the younger kids. Um, I'm sad that the timing didn't work out on that because I felt like that would have been a really great way for them to understand a completely different way of living.
But I think that's something that a lot of people might not think of as well is just looking for all these different ways to. Make it more affordable, but also make it more rewarding.
Annika: right? And all of those ways, like you're mentioning really enrich the experience. Going on the off season is another big way that, you know, long-term family is much less expensive than kind of, you know, the, the summer vacation during the high season. But, um, you know, there's a woman that I interviewed, Stephanie Tok, who now has, uh, she runs hubs for family travel.
Um, she was in, I believe it was Czechoslovakia on a workaway. And room and board were included and the kids were technically working because they spoke English and they were on this, they lived on this rural farm and they didn't have access to kind of native speakers. And the parents wanted their kids to be able to speak with native speakers.
And so they lived for, I think, a month on a farm. And, uh, for free made some of the closest, their closest lifelong friends now, um, in this exchange. So, not only are those things great for the budget, but they're also usually very, very rewarding.
Christine: yeah, I had looked at that as well and also my kids thought that was so great because it's really empowering for them to feel like they have a purpose and for them to be able to, to practice speaking English with other children. Um, Yeah, it gives them a sense of power or not power, but just like purpose.
Yeah. They, they sometimes like, they're just following us around and like that. They were like, wow, they would need to learn that from me. And what could I learn from them? And, you know, that was such a cool idea. So I think that's really exciting for people to look at. Um, well, I know that we definitely want people to grab a book.
If they're thinking about this kind of trip, um, and read it for themselves. But what are one or two of the most important chapters you think are about topics that people might overlook when they're planning for this kind of trip? So we know people are going to start out thinking about how much this is going to cost.
If they're traveling with their kids, they're going to start thinking about how they're going to educate them. Um, what are some other things that you think are really important?
Annika: Yeah. So, I think, you know, we, we go through chapters on, you know, the planning, the money, how you actually do the education, which, um, I think is probably the most interesting chapter to me because there's Sometimes people say, uh, curriculum, are you going to buy, but there's so many different ways to do it.
But I think some of the most surprising or overlooked ideas that we, um, present. In our book is, um, family dynamics on the road and re entry, and I think most people don't think about that, but, uh, for family travel, you know, if you're traveling full time with your family, like those dynamics come up. It's not It's different than, you know, uh, the two week summer vacation.
It's um, you know, before we left on our trip, um, you know, I was a stay at home mom with three kids and I did all of the, the legwork around the house. And, um, we also own a vinyl record store. And so that was my, my husband kind of found a manager and, And then when we started our trip, I was still doing all the logistics and all the planning, and he was reading the New Yorker, like cover to cover, which he'd always wanted to be able to do.
And I was like, Hey, wait a minute, you know, see, you have to kind of think about those roles and what are you going to do when the kids start bickering? Um, you know, how do you have. If you are in a partnership with someone, how does that change, get stronger, get more strained, uh, while you're traveling? So we go through a lot of that and kind of talk about, we call it the gems of the journey and kind of different ways that you can, you You can look at those.
And then the other chapter that I think would catch people by surprise is re entry. It is so, so, so overlooked when you're planning. You don't think about coming home. You think, Oh, you know, this is where I'm from. It's no big deal. I'll just come home. But if you're out there for an extended period of time, your identity is shifting.
Your worldview, as we've talked about, will shift. And then you come back into the life. And the context that you came from, there's going to be some tension there. There's going to be change. And so how do you navigate that? And I think a lot of people don't think about that before they leave, but I think it's really helpful to think about it before you leave.
Christine: Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm thinking of when I came back from my six weeks in Thailand and, you know, like landing there, how disjointed I felt and, but how quickly, like, it felt normal and like home to me and then coming back. Back to the U S it actually took a lot longer time for me to return to my normal than it did to integrate with who I was when I was traveling.
And that was really confusing for me to, to understand and to even be able to explain to people, like just. how much I was feeling that disconnect. And for children, I think it's probably harder for them, even harder for them to find the language. And so as a family when you return home and you're all feeling discombobulated, how do you manage that?
So I love that you bring that up because I do, I think people think they're just going to get right back home and then like go visit their grandparents and enroll in school and just be back to their normal way of life without. Any hiccups, and it is very difficult. And also, I think preparing people to talk about their experience.
When they get home to is something I think is really helpful giving them ideas of ways to share Their experience because a lot of people can't relate to this experience And so I feel like those conversations sometimes feel for me sometimes I felt icky because like it it's It going back to that, like only people that have a lot of money get to have this experience or whatever.
It feels like there's a lot of privilege that you are shouldering when you're talking about this experience. And it, I don't know, I don't know if you can relate to that where it feels like some people can't hear about it because it doesn't feel accessible to them. And so it's really hard to bridge that gap.
Annika: Absolutely. And you know, when I came back, I'll say from, from Peace Corps, you know, people would say I was gone for two and a half years, almost three. And people would say, how was Thailand? And you had to gauge like whether or not they wanted one word answer, or they wanted to sit with you for a day to unpack how just, you know, it transformed me as a human being.
And so sometimes I just say. It was hot, you know, or, or sometimes it was like, let's, let's really sit down and dive into this. And so you have to kind of help your kids do that kind of in the moment navigation of what answered, can I really give this person? But I want to share, you know, personally, when I came back and, you know, a lot of parents had that kind of like, I think one of the, the general comment was, well, back to reality, you can't do that forever.
And, you know, there's a little snark there, probably. And so in my mind, I'd say, you know, yes, but I wonder if that kind of living outside of the box and growth that happens when you're outside of your comfort zone for an extended period of time, maybe that's reality. And this is kind of the fiction or the dream, this kind of the way we live when we're just kind of in our, in our ruts, you know?
Um, and so just. Having the intern, like just you, you, it's audience awareness is like, who am I talking to and what can I say so that I think it's challenging as an adult. And it's really challenging for kids. And one of my kids was like, I'm so embarrassed that I have this privilege. And so I'm never going to mention that I did this.
And then others, like probably my younger ones were like, Oh, you know, when I was in Greece, you know, swimming around the islands, this and this and this. And so it's just every kid kind of managed it very, very differently, but I will say that they really do now they'll really say we didn't travel the way you think we traveled.
You know, we stayed with friends. We, we were on a very tight budget the whole time. Um, so they'll, they'll, you know, they'll kind of, kind of expand the, the perception that maybe, you know, others think about it.
Christine: Yeah. Well, one of the things I wanted to ask you and I can't, how far, how long has it been since you ended the, your year of travel now?
Annika: It, I was just thinking when I was preparing for this 2018, we came home. So before COVID,
Christine: Okay. Cause I'm just wondering, you know, at this point, if your family has kind of reflected on how this changed you, or do you see how your children, like how it's shown up in your children? Like if it is inspired them to, behave different or create something different or, you know, I just wonder what it looks like now.
Annika: absolutely. So, you know, I live in Colorado and my daughter was, you know, from a very young age, fascinated with oceans. So like, how do you help your kid feed that passion when you're in a landlocked state, right? So we spent the year looking, you know, spending time with oceans. She was on a surf life rescue team in New Zealand doing like doing competitive open ocean swimming when she, when we were on our travels.
And she is now, in college studying marine biology. Um, and doing coral restoration work. So, you know, there's a, there's a massive impact, um, you know, on that kind of really obvious level. I think, uh, one of my daughters now in high school does Model UN. And, um, She has a sense of kind of the lens that people look at world issues.
Like, well, we can't just assume it's always the American view. I wonder what their lens is. And I feel like she can totally rock model UN because she can do that. And a lot of kids her age. can't do that. Um, I think, you know, in hearing like, you know, world history, um, hearing about a country and they don't necessarily bring it up in the classroom, but they come home and they say, you know, my teacher was saying this and this and this about China.
It's so hard to imagine because my experience of China was so different. You know, people don't think about the people. They think about what the government's doing, kind of what I was saying before, or even sports, you know, we learned about all kinds of new sports on the travels and, like interest in kind of unique sports.
That's another big one for my son.
Christine: Yeah. I love hearing that. I just, I'm always so curious and, you know, I think just much like in our own selves, things will just unravel many years from now. I think one of the things I always say is like transformational travel doesn't happen like right now, all of a sudden, 10 years from now, you're going to look back and be like, Oh, it was that, that kind of, became this later.
And so I know it'll take a long time to kind of understand some of those things, but the, the, the perception, especially in history and education and that awareness that you were explaining, I felt like that was a huge, a huge thing for my kids to see was history. That wasn't, Like from this American perspective, right?
That history has happened all around the world to different people in different ways. Like we were in Scotland and we were in some museum. And my youngest daughter at the time was eight. She just turned eight and she, I just remember her like reading some of the things and we were talking and looking at stuff.
And she's like, where's America here. And I was like, ha ha, like how interesting, you know, that's how you've learned about history. You don't even realize at this point, especially because she's so young, that there's, there's history, other places. Um, but at the same time, like we had our first day of school, um, when we were in Athens and, you know, we went to the museum there and, we had a room looking over the Parthenon and like, that was huge for her to, see like history alive, you know, again, that's different from in a book.
And so I just wonder for her later, What that will mean because she was so young when she had that experience and like my oldest daughter Man, did she feel at home in some of these old? parts of cities in Europe like She just looked like herself there I don't even know how to explain it and she cannot stop thinking about it.
Like she's just like I will live there. I will that that is who I am. And I just think about what a gift that is that she maybe understands herself in a way that I never could have at that age. Um, and I think those are like those beautiful things that we don't even know their gifts that we're trying to give our Children.
Like it's the gifts that maybe travel had waiting for them. We had, we could never have had a part of it. Yeah,
Annika: I'll say, you know, it's very hard to kind of put my finger exactly on how this shows up, but I do feel like Doing such a hard exit of like standard American lifestyle of, you know, things that don't make financial sense. They don't make career sense to like skip out for a year. I feel like you're also setting up, this, um, maybe opening that you can live an alternative lifestyle for your own mental health.
And to put that first, I feel like now that they're teenagers, sometimes they're saying like. You know, I might just do this totally, totally different thing with my life. And I want, I wonder sometimes if maybe our year or kind of living, doing something that doesn't make financial or career sense, kind of opened up more possibility for them.
And I don't think I'll ever know, but I'd like to think it did.
Christine: yeah, I think so. And I think the other thing that it does is, or that I've seen in my kids and even just through my career and travel kind of already started this, but like nothing feels off limits to them in the same way that it felt felt off limits to me. Like my narrative in my, you know, childhood and who I might be as an adult would not have been like, yeah, I'll be a person that travels to Africa, or I'll be a person that backpacks through Thailand, or I'll, and my kids have no idea that that couldn't be possible.
They just, there's just no limit, which I think isn't entitlement, it's like, they don't have to be in any box, kind of like what you're saying, right? It's just like I have seen so many other things, and when you see the way that people live a much more simple life in so many places too, like, They're like, I kind of want to do that.
That, that feels good to me. I, there's just so many other ways to live that aren't modeled for us in our existence, typically in the U. S. And I just think it's, that is also, I think, yeah, that's a really wise thing to notice is that maybe this gives our kids permission to Be more true to who they are and not have to live up to the expectations that we have had of like graduate college, high school, go to college, get a degree, get married, have a house, have a career, have a this, this, this, like none of them actually have ever mentioned to me once.
That that's the path they want now, like one is like, I want to have an apartment above a shop and cats. And one is, you know, like, I want to be a ballerina who does this and then be a CEO who does this. And then this, who had is like, none of them have that path that I felt like that I would die. If I like took one step to the right.
Annika: Exactly. Exactly. And then I think it, and by traveling, there's so many different ways to live a human life, right? It's not, if this isn't working for you, if this is making you unhappy, you can, there's a. So many other options for you.
Christine: Yeah, and using happiness as a gauge, which I think is really important. And when you travel like that, not that every day is like happy, glorious vacation day, because it's not. But so many times you can say, like, what would bring you joy right now? What would feel great to do? Like you have kind of this open ended to which is, again, not something that Most people have the luxury of experiencing like we still had things we had to do, but there was a lot more space So I think that's really really great Well before we end our conversation, I just wanted to give you opportunity to share I don't know if you are still doing any Promoting or if there's places where people can connect with you out in the real world face to face And then just where they can find the book and then we have a few rapid fire questions
Annika: Great. Yeah, so we are still, we're, you know, speaking at different conferences, homeschooling and travel conferences. Lots of, Kind of promotions on podcasts and things like that. Um, the book's available on Amazon. It's available at many REIs, um, around the country. Um, indie bookstores, always promoting those and, um, on our, please check out our website, wonderyear.
com. We put out, um, blogs. A couple per month on kind of very current issues with world schooling and long term family travel And um, I think that's about that's about it
Christine: Yeah, thank you. I definitely will encourage like I have the privilege of having met all three of you and I feel so blessed like I just I'm so grateful because I think you're such beautiful people anyway. And so I'm glad to have more people hear about what you're doing. And I think even This is such a great book, even if you're not looking at long term family travel, just to learn to think differently about travel.
So I'm just going to put that out there, too, if people are just kind of wanting to know more about how to be a responsible traveler or a mindful traveler. Just think about what you could do to engage in your travel differently. I think You can find some of that in there too, like, I've been doing this for a really long time and I learned so much, so I, I think, um, I don't want to just, I know that's who it's for, but I also think it, there's outliers who would find benefit from reading the book.
Annika: Yeah,
Christine: Um, Okay. Rapid fire questions. Uh, what are you reading right now?
Annika: I am reading a covenant of water by abraham vergesi
Christine: Uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Annika: an inflatable globe, uh, especially with kids. So you can, um, play with kids that you meet along the way and then show them where you live.
Christine: Oh, that's such a great idea. Uh, I think we got one actually on our last flight home, which then we were like, what do we do with this? But that would have been so good when we were, when we were traveling, um, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Uh, where is some place after all of these travels that you would still love to sojourn?
Annika: Gosh, great question. Um, I have never been to Croatia and I'd love to go in those waters.
Christine: Oh yeah, you, I mean, you have to. My kids were like, mom, if you tell me how beautiful the water is one more time, I'm going to push you off the edge of this road. It is. I couldn't stop. I could not stop gasping every day when we would walk into the little village. I just would look at it and just be like, this cannot even.
Be real. So I loved it there so much. Um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Annika: Um, I would say rice. I, I, I know I'm supposed to eat brown rice. I know that's better for me, but good Thai jasmine rice. I'm immediately back in Thailand.
Christine: Um, I just read an article about that. If I can find it, I'll share it to you and it will justify your Jasmine rice. Um, let's see where, uh, who was a person that, uh, inspired you or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?
Annika: I would say, um, my mom, who passed away when I was young. Um, but she was a linguist and, um, even as a kid, she would speak to me in different languages and I knew about all of her experiences traveling and it was a way to connect with her.
Christine: Thank you for sharing that. Um, if you could take a adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Annika: Kathy Dragon, because she's always adventurous and she always makes me laugh and, um, Yeah.
Christine: I love that. Um, now having been able to travel with her, that is also someone who I really love traveling with, so I can appreciate that answer. Um, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in the space? I know you're not really in the travel industry per se, but is there someone that you know of that you'd like to recognize?
Annika: That's a great question too. Um, Well, I would immediately say you and Kathy Dragon. And I'll go off and say also Beth Santos. Um, she just wrote a book. I've met her a few times and she is just so full of positive energy and she is amazing. Always looking for ways to lift up the people around her and to make sure that different voices are heard in the travel space.
So I've just been so impressed every time I've met her.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for mentioning her. She's definitely, um, one of my favorite women in the industry and has been on the podcast a few times. So if you're listening and you haven't heard from her for some weird reason, you should definitely check out those episodes. Cause I agree. She, um, she just has the best heart for creating community and opportunity for women in the industry.
And it's, it's really special. So, um, well, thank you so much for being with me on the podcast. This was like a real treat again, Knowing you, but getting to have a little bit of a deeper conversation with you here. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom today.
Annika: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
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