Episode 220 - Allison Fleece, WHOA Travel
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine shares a soulful conversation with Dr. Rachel Graham.
Allison Fleece is the co-founder of WHOA Travel, a boutique adventure travel company founded in 2013. Operating adventures and experiences on all seven continents for over 12 years, Allison has learned a thing or two about curating meaningful travel experiences. WHOA was founded as and is a leader in women’s adventure travel and in recent years has grown to expand their travel experiences to include more —families, corporate groups, custom experiences, solo travelers among others. WHOA’s thoughtful & unique style of adventuring has been recognized in publications such as the New York Times, Travel & Leisure, and National Geographic. WHOA is proudly Women Owned (WBENC), a member of 1% for the planet, and Allison serves as an Ambassador for the Adventure Travel Trade Association.
The Beginnings of WHOA Travel
Twelve years ago, Allison Fleece and her best friend Danielle Thornton were working corporate jobs in New York when they decided to take on an audacious challenge. Along with eight other women, they planned to climb Mount Kilimanjaro while supporting a women's vocational school at the mountain's base. What happened next would set the foundation for WHOA Travel's mission.
"When the 10 of us reached the summit of Kilimanjaro, we learned later on that day that we had also reached our fundraising goal for the school and the school's programming," Allison shares, describing the powerful convergence of physical achievement and social impact that would define their company's future.
Building on Strong Foundations
WHOA Travel's commitment to women's empowerment has remained unwavering since its inception. "We've always been super true to ourselves and we've always had very strong convictions about how we think travel should be done," Allison explains. "It's really rooted in community and connection and empowering women." This philosophy manifests in their deliberate choice to work with women-owned or women-led businesses across all seven continents.
The Magic of Shared Adventures
While solo travel has its merits, Allison firmly believes in the transformative power of group experiences. As she passionately describes, "The laughter, the camaraderie, the conversation, the lifelong friends, the bonds, the support, the shoulder to cry on... you bond with these people and you have these new friendships that are quite honestly difficult to find in your adult life."
These experiences create a unique environment where women can push their boundaries together, supporting each other through challenges and celebrations alike.
Redefining Adventure Travel with Women+
The traditional image of adventure travel often centers around young, male athletes conquering peaks. However, WHOA Travel's experience tells a different story!
Their average traveler is 41.6 years old, and many come from non-traditional outdoor backgrounds.
"A lot of our travelers are not like these traditional mountain or outdoorsy people," Allison reveals, adding, "like neither were Danielle and I when we started. Yes, we liked the outdoors, but we weren't like these crazy mountaineer people."
Making adventure travel more accessible and open to people of all backgrounds and genders takes a distinct intention — and mindset — to reach new audiences and design them well.
Creating Sustainable Impact with Group Travel for Women+
WHOA Travel's commitment to sustainability extends beyond environmental considerations to include social and economic impacts. They've developed innovative approaches to support local communities and empower women in the industry. "We've always tried to work with either women-owned or women-led businesses," Allison explains. "That was always our intention from day one - to elevate and propel women in their careers, support women businesses where we can."
Their initiatives include the Trailblazer Leader Grant, which helps female guides obtain necessary certifications and training. This practical approach to breaking down barriers in the mountain guiding industry demonstrates their commitment to creating tangible change.
The conversation repeatedly returns to the idea that the value lies not just in reaching the summit but in the entire journey. "Half of the fun of these adventures is that training and carving out that time and that space for themselves leading up to it," Allison observes. This perspective shifts the focus from pure achievement to personal growth and community building.
Staying True to Your Mission
When asked about advice for other entrepreneurs, Allison shares a powerful insight: "When you speak to everyone, you speak to no one." She elaborates, "You can't be everything to everyone. You shouldn't be everything to everyone. You have to have a point of view, a perspective, an angle... and the right people will pick up what you put down."
This philosophy has guided WHOA Travel through its growth while maintaining its authentic connection with its community. "When you're running a lifestyle company that's so deeply rooted in passion and heart, you have to stay true to your values, be unwavering, and the right people will come."
This soulful conversation between Christine and Allison illuminates how adventure travel can serve as a powerful vehicle for women's empowerment and sustainable development. Through WHOA Travel's example, we see how combining purpose with passion can create lasting positive change, one mountain at a time. As more women take on these challenges, they're not just climbing mountains - they're reshaping the landscape of adventure travel for future generations. In Allison's words, these experiences are "just better shared," creating a ripple effect of empowerment that extends far beyond the summit.
“We’ve always been super true to ourselves and we’ve always had very strong convictions about how we think travel should be done... it’s really rooted in community and connection and empowering women.”
Soul of Travel Episode 220 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Allison discuss:
· The mountains we climb literally and figuratively in our business, our lives and in our travel experiences
· How the values that have carried WHOA travel from day one persist through today
· Focusing on supporting and empowering women as travelers as well as elevating women in the adventure travel industry globally
· Climbing Kilimanjaro
· The value of group travel and the ways WOAH supports UNSDG’s
Join Christine and Allison Fleece now for this soulful conversation.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
Sustainable Development Goal #14: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more and connect with Allison https://www.whoatravel.com
Connect with Allison on your favorite social media network! Instagram / Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Soul of Travel Episode 220 Transcript
Christine: welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm your host, Christine, and today I'm very excited to be joined by Alison Fleece, who is the co-founder of Woe Travel. Um, she's someone I have followed in the travel space for quite some time and, um. I've been sharing a lot this season on like, I guess what I'm calling my meet cutes of when I actually finally meet people in person.
And ours is so funny and so typical of the travel business because we were at a huge conference at A TWS in Panama and is like. You have like, you know, 29 seconds to go to the bathroom between the two things that you are trying to do. And I think one of us was going in and one of us going out and it's like we looked at each other and we're like, yeah, that looks like.
The face of the person I know and I had you on my list of people I wanted to meet and then you like glance down at the name tag and they were like, that's them. We had like this 15 minute conversation and then, then it was like, okay, let's do a podcast episode. See you later. So that like our quick meet.
This how I feel a lot of, um, connections end up happening, uh, within the tourism industry. But I'm really glad today to have more than 15 seconds. To speak with you and to share your wisdom with our audience.
Allison: Yeah, no, it's absolutely how it happened, and thank you so much for inviting me to be here today. I always love talking travel and adventure and women in this space especially. So nice to see you and have a longer conversation.
Christine: yeah, absolutely. Well, just to invite our listeners into to this conversation, can you share a little bit, Alison, about who you are and what you do at Woe Travel?
Allison: Yeah. So hello everyone. I am Allison Fleece, um, from Woe Travel. I've been running Woe with my best friend, my co-founder Danielle Thornton, for 12 years. And we started woe because I. We were living in New York and working jobs and wanted to do something big for ourselves. So we, um, we were a group of women that decided to go to Kilimanjaro together.
We were five women from New York and five from South Africa. So, um, we were, ended up being a group of, of 10 women. And when we knew that it was intentionally going to be a group of women climbing together, uh, this was back in 2013, we, um, we tied the, the. Climb to a cause very similarly to like running a marathon for a charity.
We did it the same way and we were very organically connected to a women's vocational school at the base of Kilimanjaro. And when the 10 of us reached the summit of Kilimanjaro, um, we learned later on that day that we had also reached our fundraising goal for the school and the school's programming.
And Danielle and I looked at each other and we were like. Wow, like two parallel peaks, two goals we were achieving all in support of, in connection of women. Um, we said, you know, how are we ever gonna go back to New York to our jobs? We have to like share this and recreate this and. Spread this goodness, um, across the world in different locations.
It doesn't always have to be Kilimanjaro, but that's really how it was born. And the idea came to life. And, um, six months to the day from that very first trip we took together uphill. Um, we had quit our jobs and we were back on the same mountain. Now seeing it through the lens of starting a business and bringing more people with us.
Um, so that's where it started and that was back in 2013 as I mentioned. And, um, can't believe it's been over a decade.
Christine: Yeah, it's so amazing and, uh, we're gonna talk a lot about, I think the parallel peaks there that you mentioned of like, um. What it means beyond climbing that mountain. there's so much that happens and it's such a beautiful metaphor, I think, for so many things, and I loved that as I spent more time getting to know your business as well because it's something, it's kind of the way I think about things a lot and so I love that.
So I think our listeners will hear that as we're talking. Um, before we hear more about today, I'd love to hear a little bit from you about your background and maybe. Early travel experiences or what, you know, what kind of was your early call to adventure and then how that led you to where you are.
Allison: Yeah. Oh my gosh. We, we love talking about our, um, formative years and, um, so I, I grew up in Michigan. Um, my parents had a cottage on one of the Great Lakes, and I spent my life outdoors in water, um, playing sports, but I don't think I ever really considered myself like. A mountain mama or like a mountain woman, you know, I, but I definitely like, loved it.
And so, um, you know, went to college, um, in Indiana, moved abroad, um, right after. So I actually studied abroad in Italy and then moved after I graduated college, moved to Germany. So I think it was like studying abroad. I also went to an all women's college, which is like also super cool because it definitely fostered that, um.
That all women, um, community camaraderie, like it was so inherent and natural in, in my upbringing, in my formative years. So anyway, um, I definitely think that like travel bug was. Was the study abroad, the moving to Germany after college, learning another language, really diving into another culture. Um, and then because I was so involved in like sports, even through college, you know, you always had something like a goal.
You always had a, like a track meet or a cross country meet or something to like look forward to and to train for. Um, but when you graduate college and you go into the real world, a lot of that like. Goes away and you have to, you know, like kind of find more hobbies and you have to be more intentional about some of these, like goal oriented like feats, if you will.
Um, and so I think, you know, when I was 27 and it came time to like, look at my life, I, I literally was like, like. I need to do something big for myself. And I wasn't, I'm not a near per se. I, you know, I like to hike. Like it wasn't something I did every weekend, but definitely like training for a year leading up to some big hike.
Like Kilimanjaro instilled that love of nature. It reintroduced me to nature. It, um, I was living in New York, so it was like, it wasn't like it was getting out there all the time, but when you're training for something, you intentionally have to find those. Nature spaces, those trails, those green spaces.
And so, um, yeah, I think, I think it was just like something was missing and I was searching for something and when I found it, it, it just stuck. And then literally like, like I think about that, I'm like, oh my gosh, my life, like, like what I was missing was that nature element. I was missing the outdoors. I was missing the um.
You know, being in touch with, with Mother Earth and, and find refining that, um, was I think part of my, part of my, like, calling part of my life's work, you know? Um, so yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think that's, that's me in a, in a nutshell.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I think it's really powerful what you were saying about that, the simplicity of just connecting to nature, being what, what you needed, because I think. It's so simple. We often overlook it. And I think about it in my own life, you know, on a day-to-day basis, how much I get tied down to right where I'm sitting right now, and all of a sudden I realize the only time I've been outside is to like hop in my car to go pick up my kids and drop them off somewhere else and then come back home and I'm like, oh my gosh, I am totally falling into the trap. so many of us fall into and it's like nature is just there and yet we're not in it.
Allison: I know, and I, I literally say it's my answer to everything and, and. And I think it was the grind of working in a city and really feeling like I had no, nothing that I was working towards at least nothing like for myself. Like sure in your career and like, you know, in jobs you have goals and things, but there was nothing I.
That was taking me out of that hustle, bustle, reconnection with the earth, with different cultures even. And so I, yeah, I'm very grateful that, um, people before me kind of gave me an idea to do this and that there were people that wanted to do it with me, wanted to, the training, I mean, the training leading up to something like that is, is half the fun too.
Christine: Yeah. Um, well, I think because of where we started, I'm gonna start at where I thought we would end our conversation, which is what happens all the time here on the podcast. But, um, you know, you mentioned this goal and you mentioned you know it in it. It in and of itself being really important, like setting that goal.
Um, a few years ago I did a, um, fourteener, we called it basically a couch to 14 because, uh, so many of us had never hiked a Fourteener, which is a OU 14,000 foot summit here in Colorado. Um, I. Co-led that with my friend Becky Rupp, who I know you've also worked with it well. We did this three month coaching program to kind of help people be mentally, physically, and spiritually prepared for this journey and.
The journey is not just what it takes on one day to get from the bottom to the top or a week if you're doing something like Kellye, right? It's so many other pieces that are so important and extend so much further past that. So I wanted to just kind of dive into that a little bit more. Like what is the, um, kind of the deeper.
Meaning behind these types of experiences. And why do you think also like doing it together is so important, this value in the group travel and this adventure goal and like the journey of getting each other to the top. There's so many pieces in that that I think are just, um, indescribably important.
Allison: Yes. Yes. Well, congrats on, on that program and we love Becky. So, um, thank you for this question. Um. There's, there's a lot. There's a lot I wanna say. So I think that the types of experiences that we're curating and creating, like, sure. It started on one of the seven summits and, you know, that, that seems very big and could seem very daunting.
Um, but we have since expanded to several other types of experiences that aren't always just reaching a traditional summit. Um, but what they. What the common thread is among all of them is that it is that, that pushing that point of pushing yourself past your comfort zone, out of your traditional path and doing it, um, with like-minded, um, people with, uh, the intent of building camaraderie and connection, um, and also doing it in a really meaningful and sustainable way.
Um. Leaving places better than you arrive to them. And I think, you know, people ask us like. Well, I could do this on my own, and I'm traditionally a solo traveler. Why should I come with your group? And the bottom line is that all of the experiences that we curate are just better shared. I mean, that's the, that it's as simple as that.
They're just better shared, um, the laughter, the camaraderie, the conversation, the lifelong friends, the bonds, the support, the shoulder to cry on. Um. The, the network, the age diversity, all of it is you, you bond with these people and you have these new friendships that are quite honestly difficult to find in your adult life.
And, and so when you come together outside of your normal path to experience the world in this thoughtful way, um, yeah, I think it, I think it just. Expands your world and it's just a better experience when you're sharing it with other people. And I think that even if you were to go with a group of friends that you knew, because we, we, we do curate experiences for private groups.
It's like we have our scheduled departures and that's what we're known for, but we also have this whole other division. Where we are planning experiences for groups of people who know each other already, but the thing that, and they're like, well, why should I come and do it this way if I can do it?
Self-guided. And it's like even the connection with the local guides and seeing a place through the eyes of a local and supporting them and their economy and learning their stories of growing up. In the Alps or in Mongolia or, you know, in the, the tourist alpine region of, of Patagonia. Like, just experiencing it through their lens is such a value add.
And, um, so yeah, I think it really comes down to just doing it the right way, doing it with, um, a supportive group and, and, and, and having that sense of camaraderie and, um. Yeah. And then, and, and, and I think, you know, we would be remiss not to bring up that sometimes these experiences group travel, um. With a lot of things like already built in, like we include tips, for example, in our, we understand that that's a pain point for people.
People don't wanna be carrying around two, 300 extra dollars in cash. Um, some people are big tipper, some people aren't big tippers, and you're in a group setting that can get really awkward really fast. We've, we've learned early on that like you could have this magical experience and then it comes down to tipping at the very end.
And your magical experience can now leave you with a very bad taste in your mouth just because of that one thing. So we include tips. For example. So the price of things often, like may even appear higher. It may be higher. Um, the level of local, the level of service and the, the professionalism and the high quality, like the caliber that we're, that we're looking for when we partner with, with our local teams, um, is just.
It's phenomenal. It's unmatched, right? And so that's always gonna come at a price point. And so that's another thing that I just hope the listener and the consumer does consider when they are looking at travel experiences. A lot of times the price is reflective of what you're going to get and when, when things are too.
Inexpensive or a little questionable. Usually somebody's paying for that. And that usually comes at the, um, expense of the people working to make this experience, um, happen. So, um, that's just, I think while we're on that. Topic. I just wanted to throw that in there because I think that is a question that a lot of people have when it comes to group travel is why, you know, what does make the unknown caller?
What does make the cost so expensive? Um, sorry for that. I don't know why this is happening, so, um, to turn this off. Okay. So, okay. Sorry.
Christine: That's okay. Um, yeah, I think it's really important to point out that value because I do think when you are taking travelers, independent solo travelers and kind of being that first conversion to group travel, you know, I've done it myself. I'm like, oh, I look, I can buy all these pieces. It seems so much less expensive.
Um, but at the end of the day, I'm not. Ever fully. Sure. And now when I say I, I am not talking about me now being in the industry for 20 some years, but me back when I was in my backpacker era, like I don't know who I'm connecting with. I don't know exactly where I'm gonna end up. Um, I ended up in some pretty crazy experiences putting my cheap connect the dots trips together, um, that we won't go into now, but I'm sure you've those moments as well.
Um. But it is super valuable and those, those connections and, um, knowing the right guide to just add that depth of, you know, connection to your experience that you really can't get on your own. I think it is really valuable. And also, you know, when we're talking about any of the trips that you know.
Travel professionals are putting together. It's also the years of experience you're paying for. So it's not just this one trip, but just like you said, it's like holding space for all of these trips. Over 10 years I've learned all of these things and now all of that wisdom is going into this one experience.
And you didn't have to learn any of those lessons the hard way.
Allison: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. Yeah. I think there. Our hope is that the, the, the customer is asking these questions and considering these things when they're looking for the right fit in a group experience. Um, and I think there's time and space for. Solo travelers and, um, you know, family travel and friends travel and all of that.
But I think that, that, yeah, like when we're specifically talking about woe and what we do here, it, I think it truly is like the common thread is that just these experiences are just better felt experienced and lived through a group alongside you.
Christine: Yeah. And for anyone who wants to just hear people talk endlessly about our deep love of women's group travel, I interviewed Aretha Shere, who I know is one of your guides, and we talked just endlessly about. How much we love and adore group travel for women. I'd recommend going back to that episode that was really fun.
Um, another thing that I heard and I wanted to share with you, I was talking, um, or we were speaking about. Who completes these trips and, and like when people are looking for an experience like climbing Kellye or Machu Picchu, um, a lot of times you are envisioning like this intrepid venture, probably like this.
Fit young man who's conquering, you know, this mountain. Like that's what is depicted to us in adventure travel. And I heard, and actually now as I'm telling you, I think it was Andrew McCarthy, um, I was at a presentation that he was giving, um, the eighties actor who did, um, Camino de Santiago with his son, and he was saying.
Allison: is that St. Elmos fire?
Christine: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's the right, the right, the right Andrew. Um, and he was saying that women over 40 are most likely to succeed in adventurous and physical challenges like climbing Kellye because of the preparation. Um, and also I think maybe. He was saying, you know, like especially on the Camino and other trips he's done, you see these people who are out there.
Sure. They could do it when they started and so they never, I. They never thought about planning and preparing and so they're just like, you know, running up the side of the mountain or whatever, and you see them three quarters of the way through when they're like, oh, I should have maybe put a little more thought into this.
Um, and so I'm just curious like that, it's not really a statistic, but like quote unquote statistic of women over 40 succeeding in these kinds of challenges. Um. What do you, how does that land for you? What have you seen and kind of like what does it take to get women again to the top of the mountain?
How do you get 'em from that maybe resistance to yes and succeeding?
Allison: Yeah. I mean, I. That is probably a, a true statistic because we did a recent kinda survey of our travelers over time, and the average traveler was like. 41.6 years old. Like, exactly like it was like 41. And, um, and I don't, I don't know if that's because like my co-founder is around that age. And so like, you know, like a lot of people when they first started traveling with us were around our age when we started and now they've grown with us.
Or if that just happens to be, you know, the demographic. But anyway, I feel like. Yeah, that's like, that's a really, that's really a, a, a cool point. I think a lot of the people who come on wo adventures are. Curious about the world. Curious. They're, they're multifaceted, they're high achievers, um, in their, in their careers, whatever that may be.
Um, very diverse group of, of people who come on low adventures, but whatever it is they are. Putting their best foot forward. And that is personally, professionally, um, in their sports and their activities and their family life. You know, it's, and, and so when you do have these goal oriented experiences, they, they want more for, you know, they, they want the space to be able to, to, um, you know, achieve these things and, and carve out the space to train for them.
And, um. Kind of own it a little bit. Like a lot of people who come on our adventures are moms, for example, and they're like, this is the one thing I can do where it's like me, it's like me and it's, I can tra, I can, you know, it's not soccer practice, it's not grocery store, it's not like school activities.
It's me training for something, um, for myself. And, um, it's like almost like. Therapeutic in a way. And yeah, so I, I, I definitely think, um, just as women, as moms, as, um. The high achieving high, um, just like goal oriented folks, like our types of adventures call that certain type of person and it's not really like a, an age demographic so much as it is a mindset.
Like we have so much age diversity on our trips, even though there is that kind of like. 41.6 stat. When you look at the people who are on any given trip, like there are people in their thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, and oftentimes even seventies. Um, I've, we've taken, um, on the same trip, we had an 18-year-old who was there with her mom, and then we had a 40-year-old who was also there with her mom.
And her mom was in her seventies. So we had an 18-year-old and a 72-year-old on the exact same trip. And I think that it really speaks to just the. Lifelong learning and the lifelong, um, just setting goals for yourself and carving out that time and that that thing that you do for you, um, and a lot of wo women, you know, make that a priority in their life.
Christine: Yeah, I think it's so great, and I think, like you said, this is something like once you say yes to it, then it is also the space you can keep saying yes to yourself because you're like, I have to go do this training hike because I'm doing this experience, or I have to go to the because I'm doing this experience.
So then all of a sudden I. Not only did you just say yes to this one thing that felt hugely important to say yes to, but now you are learning how to say yes to yourself over and over again. And I think that's something that's really important for women because we find ourselves prioritizing a lot of things in our lives over our own self-care and wellbeing.
Allison: Absolutely. No, that's so true. And I think a lot of people, at least the ones that I get to chat with, like half of the fun of these adventures is that training and carving out that time and that space, um, for themselves leading up to it, the gear prep and getting excited about, you know, leading up to the trip is half of the fun.
And, um, and it makes, yeah, like you said, the, the yes, like. It makes it real. And so, um, really being fully present for the whole journey of it. Um, not just the, you know, seven days you're on the trip, but everything leading up to it and yeah, what that does for us. Totally. I, I, it's all positive. It's all super positive.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I would love to kind of flip gears and talk a little bit more about, well, from the, the business perspective and kind of understand some of the values that drive your business. Um, I know looking on your website, you had these pillars of stand strong, dream big, and prioritize people. And I'm wondering if these are values that you had or understood starting out.
If they've evolved over time as you began to build your business and your relationships and kind of where those came from.
Allison: Yeah, I think we've always been super. Um, true to ourself and we've always had very strong convictions about how we think travel should be done. Um, and it's really rooted in community and connection and empowering women. Um, so we always try to work with, um, either women owned or women led. Um, I think a almost, I wanna say like a hundred percent.
Don't quote me, but I think a hundred percent of our, um, either guides, um, or, you know, leaders, guides, businesses are women owned, some are male owned, but have a all female team running the show on the ground. But, um, it is either women owned or women run. And, um, that was always our intention from day one, was to elevate propel women in their careers, um, support women businesses where we can.
Um, but then also just like. I think we've always had this like deep conviction to bring people together to experience these things and feel like you're traveling with your friends. Like, like we, we started with just me and Danielle and like I mentioned previously, that you know, people started coming on our trips 'cause they knew us.
And so a lot of it was like friends or acquaintances or people we knew in our path like. Through college or for, through our first careers out in the real world. Like, you know, a lot of people are just, just random people that we've met, um, up until our life at that point. And so, um, like that was the, the beginning.
Days of woe is, that's what it looks like. Even now that we're taking 400 people, you know, on adventures on all seven continents, and we have a team of 24 group leaders, we still have that same feeling of like, you are traveling with your friend. You can call us, you can email us, you can. Text us and while you're shopping at REI and picking out your boots and it still feels like you're traveling with your, your friends, and that's what it's always gonna be.
If we lost that, I feel like we would loss, we would lose the heart of, of, of woe. Um, and so that's been true since day one. And I think that just really goes back to the community part where we, we. Want to always elevate women, we always want to like, leave places better than we arrive to them. So leave no trays, pack in, pack out.
Being cognizant of the, the swag that we're producing and giving to people instead of just giving a bunch of, you know, random stuff that's gonna end up in a landfill one day. Like, what, what do people actually need to adventure and to make this a, a. It, you know, a better experience and, and, um, how can we do that in a sustainable way?
How can we support brands that are reusing product and, um, you know, off, like, like we try to offset every bit of in-country, um, like carbon emissions, the footprint that you have in country. Like, we're trying to plant trees. So instead of giving like alumni like. An extra thing that they don't need. You know, we're like, okay, we're gonna plant the number of trees you've gone, or the number of trips you've gone with us.
That's how many trees we're gonna plant in your name. And just being more cognizant of, of the, the impact that adventure travel has and being a force of good. Um, I think that's been, that's always been true since day one. One thing that we've always done, which we've formalized a little bit more, is that we've.
We've, we try to take local women, um, and provide grants for them to join our experiences so that you're hiking Kilimanjaro with someone who's lived there her whole life, um, who otherwise might not have that experience because it's not very traditional that a woman from the local community would join an expedition.
You might see wit female porters or guides, and that's getting better every year. Um, but you know, as a customer. It like shifts the perception of, of the, the female, the actual individual, her community, her family. 'cause you know, you know, when we invest in women, we're investing in broader communities. It's also shifting the perception of the male guides because Kilimanjaro is one of the, one of the mountains that is more male dominated than female.
Um, so it's shifting perceptions. So that's something that we're trying to do in more places is getting local women to join these experiences. And I think that's. I mean, I, I mean we've been doing it since day one and now we've formalized a nonprofit to make it even more, um, attainable and more visible.
Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that like just community and leaving places better and, and using adventure travel as a force for good. Um. Has been what we've always done and it's, it's what we, we continue to do and we've really been unwavering in those values and those convictions that we've had.
Christine: Yeah. I love that so much. And I, I love the, um, awareness that you had about the, you know, the inequity of. Locals having the same experience that we're having as travelers. I know that's something that I am always keenly aware of when I'm traveling and have had conversations, you know, moving through different destinations and saying, okay, this is what I just did, and connecting with a local person and them saying like, oh, I've never been to that part of my country, or I've always dreamed of that, and I'm thinking, gosh, I just flew halfway around the world.
To do this thing and this is one hour from your home and you may never see it. And like that just breaks my heart. And I, I had, when I first started my company, um, had thought, how can we do this? 'cause this just seems right. You know, like it that we somehow create this opportunity for people to see their own country the way that we're seeing it.
Um, and it also reminded me, I grew up in Montana. And I grew up near Glacier National Park. And if it's a place you've been or not, it's stunning. But growing up there, it was just my home. And so I appreciated it, but I didn't fully understand kind of like the magic of it. And early in my career, one of the first trips I had to lead was a Montana rail trip.
And I was so disappointed because like they ran these adventure trips all around the world and they're like. Christine, you're up, you're going to Montana. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it. But I like got on a bus with all these people from around the world and we were driving like past the road where my grandma lives and know, all these things and they're like oohing and awing and just like in, in awe and disbelief.
And I'm like, oh, I missed that. And we also went to places I'd never been in my own backyard and. That wasn't really powerful. So I think about both of those things, like the appreciation it creates for you as a local to witness something you see every day through your own eyes, and then also to have the experience to see something you would've not seen when it's right there.
Allison: Right, exactly. Oh, I love that so much. And another thing on that same note, um, so our lead guide in Peru, she, um, she started, um, her own company, which is kind of unheard of in the Andes to have a trekking company owned by a woman. Um, you don't see as many women guides, let alone. Women owners of these companies, but we just really believed in her from day one and it was like a match made in heaven, and we knew that she would get so much out of coming on our Kilimanjaro trip.
She had never been on a plane. She had never left Peru, and she flew from Cusco to Lima and then Lima to Amsterdam, and then Amsterdam down to Kilimanjaro. She came over and she. She got to meet our guides, our porters. She got to see the whole operation. She was there as like another customer just joining our, you know, joining our experience.
And while her guiding ability, her just how, like her mind was just, just, it exploded. Like, and I thought that was so cool. 'cause we're a col, you know, we're a collective of, of, of partners at woe. And for her to be able to like lean on and learn from, I. Another culture and another mountain community. Um, I mean it was just, it was so cool.
I was a part of it and I got to see, I got to see her there and be there with her and it was so cool. And that's, that's another thing our nonprofit is doing is, is, is creating experiences like that because there's so much value and, and learning from other cultures and, um. You know, as a guide, even like being, being on the other side of it and, and learning through that lens.
So yeah, I love it.
Christine: Um, well, one of the things I wanted to talk to, which you're already tapping into, but I just wanna. Dive a little deeper is this idea that I think small companies can create big impacts. Um, one of my past guests, um, Habiba Habiba Alri, who is the co-founder of as Gun Fund and Morocco, she was sharing this on LinkedIn and then I was kind of in a moment myself where I was like, okay. What's my ripple look like? And I'm like, it's okay that it looks like this right now. I actually don't know how far it reaches past me. That's not even for me to know, right? Like it's happening. Um, you've created this ripple throughout, you know, your time. Um, with woe, and I love looking at your website where you were sharing some of your sustainable development goals and before we hopped on, you were talking a little bit about this, that you were like, okay, these are things where we've always done, but we've never just like said it.
And set it and set it or like put it all in one place. And I love on, on your website, you can kind of look from 2018 until now. You have like all these different things you put into place and like you can follow the journey. And I think it's helpful because we can see like the smaller steps at the beginning or maybe like something we're already doing in our business we didn't even know was a step towards being sustainable, was being sustainable.
It's just our ethics and our actions. Um, so I'd love to hear from you maybe a little bit of. More of your lessons, um, that you've learned along the way or what you're really excited for. And then I wanna talk specifically about a couple of, of things that caught my eye.
Allison: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so some, some lessons. Oh. Oh. And should this be through the lens of the SDGs or just lessons as running well, or,
Christine: Um, I would say maybe through the SDGs, if you can, like just kind of things that you've learned. they apply and.
Allison: Um. So I would say when you're working with local communities and um, you have visions and goals and um, ideas, the most important thing is to include the people that you are partnered with, that you're connected to, um, in the conversation. So, um. You know, we might think that we have this great idea and we want to give back, or we want to, to, you know, leave places better.
But is that really what the local community wants? Is that really what the local people, it's gonna make their like situation better? Or is it, you know, and so I think just involving people in the conversation. Um, a small example of this is, um, we had received a, a grant through the nonprofit and. We wanted to invest in one of our, uh, female guides to elevate her in her career, um, in the Kilimanjaro region.
And, um, she was an assistant guide and we knew that we wanted to invest in her for like continuing education so that she could have the credentials to become a lead guide. 'cause a lot of times there are barriers to entry. Um, four females, um, getting from that assistant guide level to that lead guide level in not just Kilimanjaro, but mountain communities around the world.
And, um, so we, you know, in our head we're like, okay, well we could put it towards this, or we could put it towards that. And like, we had all these like conversations and really it came down to she needed her wilderness first responder certification, which is something we take for granted because like every guide has it.
And then. The recertification always costs less than the first time getting it. And so, um, and so we were like, wow, it's just as simple as talking to her and asking what she needs. And we were able to put the grant towards the Wilderness First Responder certification and, um, that. Opened her up to more opportunities to be a lead guide, which is propelling her career and elevating her career.
Um, so really I think that was a lesson. It's just like, like involving your, your family, your community and the, your guides and the local people you work with. Um, and so I would say that is one. Um, another lesson, um, might be. Um, Ooh, gosh, what was the second part of your question?
Christine: Who knows at this but you know, it's okay. This is why it's a conversation. We're not scripted here. Um, but actually I would love to go ahead and talk about some of those specific examples because you, you already, I think, mentioned one, but obviously SDG five, gender equity is super important here at Soul Travel Podcast.
And you, we know it is for you as well. And so I wanted to talk about some of the. Gender equity, um, global initiatives such as what you just mentioned. Um, I know you're also working with eternal landscapes in Mongolia. Um, I interviewed Jess Brooks here on the podcast so people can listen to her episode.
I'll take it in the show notes. Um, and then also Mountain God's Peru. Um, those are two good examples. If maybe share what those look like.
Allison: Yeah. So as I mentioned, um, Elizabeth, our lead guide in Peru was thinking of starting her, her own company, and we were like, yes, yes, do it. We will work with, I think we were like her, her first big client, you know, and, um. And yeah, I mean, it was really was like, it just, sometimes it just takes like somebody believing in you and, and, and saying like, you can do this, um, for, um, for it to happen.
And now we've been working with her for eight years. This is all be our eighth season with, um, mountain gods. And Yes. So, um, in Mongolia, our local partner, um, Jess. Eternal landscapes founded the Chand Chandana Arana, or I, I'm probably gonna totally butcher that, but, um, it's a circular approach to tourism, um, that makes, um, you know, lasting differences in the lives of, of Mongolian women, um, for.
Work in, um, training opportunities in the tourism space and then also in Patagonia. Um, we, so we trek the w and then afterwards in Puerto Na, um, we do like a sharing, um, day where we connect with, uh, local female entrepreneurs, artisans, um, and artists. Right there in Port Na, um, and support their businesses and learn from them.
Um, and yeah, just, you know, it's, it's all about connection and we really try to do that everywhere we go. Like, um, just supporting women, believing in them, using our nonprofit to be able to, um, you know, using our pro nonprofit to be able to find ways to, to, to invest, um, in a. You know, and again, that might be leadership training, um, wilderness first responder guide training, um, investing in their business, um, in, in Elizabeth's case.
So, um, yeah, I, you know, I think that's what we're always trying to do. We're always trying to connect with and support women. I.
Christine: Yeah, I love that and I think it's so easy as operators and as travelers to be able to do it. I think some people think that it might be difficult to figure it out, but I think wherever you are, it's, you know. Know, as simple as you said, finding a local business that you can support and add into your itinerary, or creating an opportunity for connection and engagement and conversation that's equal, not, you know, someone giving a presentation and there being no exchange, but something that really allows for that connection.
I think there's room for so many of us to do that, and then you never know again where that ripple. Goes, you never know the possibility that someone sees because of that interaction.
Allison: Totally. I love this ripple idea. I haven't used that before, but I'm going to start and I'm gonna start thinking about the ripple more.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad 'cause I, I think it's important. That's, that's definitely something that I'm clearly thinking about often. Um, I also wanted to talk about your trailblazer leader Grant that falls under the SDG four of quality education. That was another one that caught my eye and I think maybe that's similar to something you've already said, but I'd like to
Allison: Yeah. Yep. So, um. So education is, is huge here. Um, and it, it, I already mentioned the, um, wilderness first responder and investing in female guides. But um, you know, circling back to like even the very foundation of woe and reaching our fundraising goal the same day we reached the top of Kilimanjaro and these two goals we were achieving in support of women.
And that's. Truly at the very base of who we are. Um, what, what's cool is that, um, that school that we, it was called, it was called, um, oh my gosh, I'm actually blanking on the name. Oh, it was Gethard to Africa. That was the name of the, of the nonprofit, um, that was running the school. So we actually, we were able to like. We were able to actually become friends with some of the, some of the women. And after we, 'cause we, we visited the school after we climbed and then we stayed in touch with them and became friends with a few of the women from the school. And then two of them came in on our very first trip that we had with customers.
Um, a year later we brought 30 women from 11 different countries and we summited out International Women's Day. And two of the women that were part of that group were from the school. Um, so. I think that, again, like back to like the very beginning stages we've been doing this. Um, and then yeah, like our, our Trailblazer, um, leader grants are um, just another avenue to be able to kind of formalize, um, um, the.
Impact, um, that we've always been doing. And, and now we have corporate donors and, um, we have individual donors and people who go on these experiences that wanna give back and create more opportunities for women. They, they contribute to these, to these grant funds, and it goes to towards things like investing in, in education for.
Um, females in the tourism and adventure travel space, um, was it, is so male dominated and, um, yeah. Yeah. And um, also our partner in Ecuador, they are also, we're super proud of what they've done. Um, they've donated 2,500 books to seed libraries, um, and, uh, reading corners in five different schools across the, um, the coaxing national park area.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And I, I think it's really great too, seeing what people that we're working with are already doing too, and understanding their impact or the efforts that, that they have, that they're passionate about locally and how we can support that because. You know, none of us are doing this alone.
when you and I go somewhere, we're intentionally finding these people. So then seeing what they're passionate about and supporting it, I think is just an extension of, of what we can create.
Allison: Absolutely. And that's what kind of something we were talking about earlier is like when you are coming on a whoa experience or you are, um, traveling with you, Christine, um, it is that years and years of experience, but it's, and, and, and working in this, but it's also the time and the effort and the thoughtfulness of finding the right people and the people that are ethical and responsible and who.
Have similar values and that's not always easy to find, you know, 'cause they're, we know travel, it's not always done right. It's not always leading from your heart. It's not always leading through like good and as a force for good. Um, and so finding those right partners, um, does take time and energy and, um, and fostering of the relationship and, um.
Yeah. And, and, and celebrating them and being able to showcase what they're doing. Um, I think that's super important.
Christine: Yeah, and those connections are, I think they're so great. I love when they happen, like. You know, again, at a big event, you know, you meet people and they're like, oh, that's great. Oh, that's great. And then you like sit with someone else and then you're like sobbing in like five minutes and you're like, oh, okay, this the one that I was waiting for because whatever reason, it's just like, you know, something happened and you just really truly connected.
And I'm like, oh, I wasn't even thinking about running a trip in wherever,
Allison: I,
Christine: I will go with you wherever you wanna take because it's just deeper than. It's not surface level. It's a deep, true connection.
Allison: that's, I mean, that is so what travel is, it's, it's getting deeper. It's the authenticity, it's the learning through. A path and a culture and something so far outside your own and kind of shows you too that we're all not that different and sometimes need that, you know, you like and, and it, I just think like also like just the empathy that, that travel fosters and, um, how the world needs more of that.
Christine: Yeah, for sure. And I think that that's one of my very favorite things about connecting with and talking to who I get to talk to because I know that that is so important. And, um, I know for me, I felt really alone in that for a long time. I just, I, the area of the industry I ended it up in first was just very traditional. Travel, mainstream travel. And I remember the first time I went to the adventure travel conference, I think it was their first one actually, and I walked into the room and I'm like, whatever's happening here is travel the way I travel, or these conversations are different and this doesn't feel just like beds and heads and how many bookings can I get and what's my marketing pitch?
People were like saying things that I was like, oh. Oh, we're talking about travel like this now, so why I'm, I'm so glad for these conversations. Um, before we end our conversation today, I just wanted to go, um, I have, we'll get there. I. At the very end, the last question I always ask every guest is to share one woman that they're inspired by or that they wanna shout out.
And um, a few conversations ago I was talking with Brianne Ner and she shouted out you, it was a really great, um. You know, conversation that she mentioned about how you have mentored her and really inspired her in her business. And so I wanted to give you a minute. you could leave a message for our listeners, like one piece of advice you wish you heard when you were in the early stages of your business, what would it be?
Allison: Yeah. Yep. Um. Okay, so I'm going to shout out someone and then a, a, a piece of advice is that
Christine: Uh, we'll get the shot out at the
Allison: Oh, okay.
Christine: piece of advice. I just wanna to let you share some of your
Allison: Yeah. Yes. No, I love, I love to share wisdom and, I say this all the time and I might, um, I might sound like a broken record if you've listened to anything I've been on before.
Um, but I truly think. That when you speak to everyone, you speak to, no one. And my co-founder Danielle, uh, taught me that 'cause she comes from an advertising background and she taught me that early on. I think it's an old advertising adage, but I think it applies to so much in life. And I think it applies to running a business.
You can't be everything to everyone. You shouldn't be everything to everyone. You have to have a point of view, a perspective, an angle. Um, you have to have your convictions. Um, and you know people are gonna pick up what you put down and the right people will pick up what you put down. And the people who aren't, I.
Picking up what you're putting down or you, you don't want 'em anyway. You know, you don't. It's like, and, and I think that that's been a guiding light in running. Whoa. I think that's been a guiding light in friendships, adult relationships, um, in decision making. Um, I think it's helped us follow our gut. Um, so much of business of sure is numbers and, you know, analytics and data and all this stuff, but when you're running a lifestyle company, um, like we do, um, that's so deeply rooted in passion and heart, um, I think you do have to kind of have those, you have to stay true to your values, be unwavering, and um, the right people will come and.
So if you're looking to start a business and it's, you know, don't, don't try to be everything to everyone, be true to you and, and, and your people will follow, will follow.
Christine: Yeah. And I love so much that that's what you said, 'cause I was trying to decide between two questions was one, letting you share the wis, that wisdom. And also I wanted to ask you about that exact quote. So we covered. We covered both, both bases, but I think it's really, uh, it is really important. And I think that, um, when we look at, you know, like our unique value proposition or you know, what we're creating, I think it's the most important thing is to understand who we are and how to set ourselves apart.
And, you know, like you and I would approach the same trip differently and it would be okay because we're gonna speak to perhaps two different sets of women and. Um, like that's perfect because they, they need us to be us so they can get what they need out of travel wherever they're at in their lives.
And like, I, I think it maybe can be hard to do in business because as you go through training or coaching or whatever, you're getting told, here's how you do the thing. And a lot of time the thing that makes you the most. You and the most impactful gets like kind of sanitized out through that process?
Allison: Right, right. It's definitely a balance. Like it's good to have those frameworks and to have these things, but sometimes I, like, I get flustered and my mind gets like, too unable to think if I have too many things, like stifling the authentic process. And yeah, I definitely, I definitely hear you on that.
Christine: Yeah. All right. Well, this conversation flew by so quickly, I cannot believe, but we are at the rapid fire, or as I lovingly call it, the rapid fire ish portion of our conversation. Um, so the first question, Alison, is what are you reading right now? I.
Allison: Ooh, uh, the Mel Robbins, um, oh my gosh. Let them.
Christine: That's about the third recommendation in a week for me for that book. So apparently that needs to happen.
Allison: I'm reading something. Otherwise, that could have been a really awkward answer.
Christine: You're like my cereal box. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Allison: Oh, snacks.
Christine: I love it. Um, to sojourn, to me means to travel somewhere with respect as if you live there. Uh, where is someplace that you would still love to sojourn?
Allison: Oh wow. Um, so I love returning to Tanzania and, um, I've Clem Kilimanjaro nine times and I never get sick of it. So I, even though I've been, I would love to sojourn, um, for the rest of my life there. I know that was a little longer than rapid.
Christine: That's okay. Remember the ish, um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Allison: Anything Japanese. Love it so much. I love Japan. Another place that I want to just do an annual trip to, just, there's so much to see and learn and do.
Christine: Yeah. Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?
Allison: Ooh, my late Aunt Cece,
Christine: Hmm.
Allison: trailblazer.
Christine: Uh. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be? I.
Allison: Ooh. Um, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Um, Michelle Obama probably. She's just seems like a real cool chick, and I just love her so much. I love, I love her. I, I wanna go have coffee with her and travel and climb, climb a mountain.
Christine: She could sell out a trip really fast between my soul of travel guests because a lot of people mention her. Um, in fact, I'm sure she would, yeah, sell any trip very fast. Um, okay, who is, this is the question we were waiting for. So who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space?
Allison: So Sunny str. I actually apologize Sunny if I am butchering your last name. Um, but she is the owner of and founder of AWE Expeditions, and she's a sis. They're a sister organization of ours. She's such a trailblazer and just. Amazing athlete. Um, she holds a lot of speed records and sets out to do some of the wildest things I've ever seen.
And, um, she's also got just a heart of gold and, um, has started this, uh, summit scholarship, uh, foundation and is really, um, huge in the, just amplifying women's voices in these mountaineering spaces. And, um, yeah, just leading such a. A cool path for women to be able to enter these extremely male dominated realms.
So Sunny. Um, super excited to be in partnership with you and to be growing our businesses and the nonprofit side of our, of what we do as well, so we can get more women out there, um, on the trails and in the mountains.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing about her, and thank you so much for being here. I'm gonna have to go back and listen to this conversation the next. Like, I have had the, the vision of Kilimanjaro in my own mind for so long. Um, and I also, I've been to Machu Picchu, but I did not hike too, so I have many of these longer hikes in my own mind, so I get myself to the mountain as well.
Allison: Yes. Oh, I love that so much, so, so much. And one thing I wanted to mention, which I probably should have talked about earlier with like the demographic, um, but you know. A lot of our travelers are not like these traditional mountain or outdoorsy people like, like neither were Danielle and I when we started like, yes, we like liked the outdoors, but we weren't like these crazy mountaineer people, you know?
And so a lot of women are working women that will have these goals and they've never been in a tent before. And that's okay. A lot of people come up with us and Peru is their first trip where they sleep in a tent or the Grand Canyon is their first time, you know, going backpacking or. You know, and any of our trips, like they, they are approachable to people that, that maybe don't consider themselves these big outdoorsy people.
So just wanted to throw that in there that, um, you don't have to be, you know, this mountain mama to, to be welcomed. Um, here, you
Christine: Thank you. I love that. 'cause I, I, I do think that is one of those things that we, as I'm wrestling with and I have slept in many tents, um, but, you know, we just have to see we're, we're trying to see ourselves in that role. And sometimes that's hard to do. And, and ironically. It's the process of doing it that helps us see ourself in that role.
So, um, I think that's really important. Um, well, again, thank you so much for being here. I have loved connecting with you. I have loved chatting with you for more than 15 seconds, I'm gonna be so happy to do it again someday.
Allison: Me, Christine, this has been really fun.
Christine: Thank you.
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