Episode 57 - Fiona Jeffery, Just a Drop

Travel

Dec 29

“It is a good and safe rule to sojourn in every place as if you meant to spend your life there. Never omitting an opportunity to do kindness or speaking a true word or making a friend.” - John Ruskin

Safe and clean drinking water is essential for survival and good health. Without safe access to clean water, clean hygiene practices are impossible. Safe hygiene practices lead to improved health, improved education, access to food sources, improved women's rights and greater prosperity.

Substantial change has been made worldwide in increasing the access to clean drinking water and sanitation but there are still millions of people who lack access to these basic services.

Globally, 1 in 3 people do not have access to safe drinking water. 2 out of 5 people do not have a basic hand-washing facility with soap and water, and more than 673 million people still practice open defecation. Access to clean water should be a basic right. Everyone in the world should have clean water and sanitation.

In this episode, Christine sits down with Fiona Jeffery, OBE, to discuss the impacts of not having clean water has on communities and how we can help make a huge impact and change lives around the world.

Fiona’s passion, enthusiasm, optimism and dedication has inspired Christine to stay committed to crafting meaningful and impactful travel experiences with her company Lotus Sojourns.

Fiona has been in the travel industry for over 20 years and is taking her experience in the travel market and lessons in business to help communities around the world thrive by providing them with clean drinking water and other resources necessary to succeed.

Fiona Jeffery, OBE is a Mum, Sustainability Champion, and Travel adventurer.

Born in Scotland and a language graduate of Edinburgh University, Fiona Jeffery has had a long and accomplished career working in the travel industry, responsible for World Travel Market (WTM) from 1986-2013 both as Managing Director and ultimately as Chairman.

Fiona created and launched a responsible tourism drive across the industry globally in 1996, before there was little talk about environmental issues, World Responsible Tourism Day in association with the UN World Tourism Organisation, which is now the largest responsible tourism gathering across the world. And launched the very first Ministerial Summit bringing the public and private sectors together to debate, discuss and shape the industry.

In 1998, as part of her sustainability drive, Fiona founded and is Chair of the international water and community development charity Just a Drop, bringing sustainable safe water, sanitation and hygiene education to communities across Asia, Africa and Latin America, transforming lives.

The organization supports 12 out of the 17 UN Sustainable Development Goals and to date has worked in 32 countries and changed the lives of over 1.8 million people.

Just a Drop currently works in Cambodia, India, Kenya ,Nicaragua, Uganda and Zambia. Fiona has set a target for Just a Drop to become a net zero carbon organization within the next 3-5 years.

Join Christine for this soulful and inspiring conversation with Fiona Jeffrey.

In this conversation Christine and Fiona discuss:

Fiona’s career in tourism and working with World Travel Market
Where the industry has been and where Fiona sees it going
Why the travel industry needs to be more thoughtful and engage travelers in a way that creates a greater change and impact
Fiona shares how Just a Drop was created and why this work is so meaningful
How access to clean water is connected to so many social issues
Why the best way to support communities with access to clean water is by giving better and investing better
The importance of having safe and clean drinking water
The impact access to clean water has on women, children, and their communities
Why we need to be conscious of our environmental footprint when traveling

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

To learn more about Just a Drop and to find out ways you can support communities with safe & clean drinking water, head over to www.justadrop.org.

Follow Fiona and Just a Drop on Instagram @fionaejeffery @just_a_drop, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn

Time to join our 2022 Lotus Sojourn Book Club!

This is a unique journey exploring the heart, the mind and the globe through the pages of nine specially selected books written by inspiring female authors. Your year long journey will include 18 guided virtual discussions with a community of light hearted women, as well as weekly journaling prompts, reflection and an assigned travel companion for each book in the journey.

Join us for rich discussion, meaningful connection and opportunity for exploration from the comfort of your home, or wherever you might be in 2022 to our first book club gathering on Zoom is January 12. Visit the website at www.lotussojourns.com/book-sojourn to join today.

To watch this interview on YouTube, click here.

More about Fiona Jeffery

Fiona, as a member of the UNWTO World Committee for Tourism Ethics successfully got agreement at the UN General Assembly to convert the UNWTO Global Code of Ethics into a legally binding Convention. A former Chair of WTTC’s Tourism for Tomorrow Programme she led the leading industry awards programme for sustainabilty and as Chair of Africa Travel & Tourism Association she set up a Sustainability Charter for all its members to use as a guide to best practise. She also sits on the Advisory Board for School of Hospitality and Tourism at Surrey University and is a Senior Partner for Finn Partners Global Sustainable Tourism PR Practice and Global Travel Recovery Network.

In 2012, Fiona was awarded an OBE by Her Majesty the Queen for services to travel and tourism, and in 2013 received the TTG Contribution to Industry Award and the World Tourism Award for her philanthropic vision in creating Just a Drop. She was recognized in the Directory of Social Change Influencer Awards in 2015 and was inducted into the Travel and Hospitality Industry Hall of Fame in 2020.

Fiona is also embarking on a rewilding project with her family in Devon so they can offset their own family carbon footprint.

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About the Soul Of Travel Podcast

Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

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If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Fiona Jeffery(Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

people, travel, industry, tourism, businesses, community, world travel market, create, responsible tourism, world, traveler, water, journey, sharing, responsible, sustainability

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the soul of travel.

Fiona Jeffrey has had a long and accomplished career working in the travel industry, and was responsible for World Travel Market from 1986 to 2013. In 1996, before there was very much talk about environmental issues, she created and launched a global responsible tourism drive across the industry. World responsible tourism de created in association with UN World Tourism Organization is now the largest responsible tourism gathering across the world. Two years later, as a part of her sustainability drive.

Fiona also founded and is chair of the International Water and Community Development charity, just a drop, bringing sustainable safe water, sanitation and hygiene education to communities across Asia, Africa, and Latin America. This organization supports 12 Out of the 17 UN Sustainable Development Goals and to date has worked in 32 countries and change the lives of over 1.8 million people. In our conversation. Fiona shares more about her career in tourism. And we talk about where the industry has been and where she sees it going. As well as the need for the future of this industry to be more thoughtful and engage travelers in a way that creates a greater impact. She shares how just a drop was created. Why this work is so meaningful, and how access to clean water is connected to many other social issues.

Her passion, enthusiasm, optimism and dedication inspire me to stay committed to crafting meaningful and impactful travel experiences with my company Lotus sojourns. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Fiona Jeffrey. Welcome to soul of travel. I am so excited today to be sitting down and joined by Fiona Jeffrey and she is joining us from England today. And this is a real kind of exciting moment for me. Fiona has had a really long career that I really admire in the tourism industry. And so I'm really excited to share your story and to have you join me. So welcome Fiona.

04:05

Well, thank you, Christine. It's really kind of used to invite me so I'm delighted to be here this evening. Thank you.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:11

We're going to begin our conversation, I would love for you to just take a moment to introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you are in the space of travel. And then we're going to go to the beginning of your tourism routes and explore how travel has kind of shaped where you are today. So we'll just begin with a brief introduction.

04:41

Okay, well, I say lovely to talk to you. And I'm I'm Fiona Jeffrey, and you might have gathered from my accent that I'm Scottish. So I was born in Scotland and my parents were a doctor and a nurse. And I mentioned that simply because actually I think that's Really, without realizing it, it quite influenced the journey that I eventually went on. Because initially, my intention was to become a doctor. I'm actually a field doctor in that sense, because I realized in my teens that actually I wasn't tough enough, and probably scientific enough to be a really good doctor. So I changed course, and ended up studying languages at Edinboro University. So I did French, Spanish and Italian, and love that. But then when I finished university, I thought I'd go into retailing and become an international buyer. And instead, I ended up working in the events exhibition industry, across a whole host of industries. But within that portfolio was World Travel Market, which at its time was in its infancy, it was on a five years old, a very UK orientated event. And that gave me my first foray into travel. And I don't think I ever looked back, because I just love the industry and saw the potential of it. And so develop my career within travel tourism that way.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:17

Thank you. I love hearing how travel finds people. It's like it has its own agenda. And it says, like, I'll take you, and I'll take you. And even though we have maybe some other plan, I just love that people come to tourism, from so many different places, which then in turn makes this industry so unique, because there's so many different perspectives and ways that people approach, travel. And then tourism really becomes more of this container for examining the world and how we interact in it and less about actually traveling from this industry perspective, I think it's just such a cool place. If you're working as a doctor, you don't often have people who were also engineers, and who were teachers and who were authors, like they're doctors, they're scientists, and every once in a while maybe a researcher or something like that, or a second career as a doctor, but like, it's very specific. And so I think this industry is uniquely poised for kind of what I talked about in the industry of creating real change, because people have so many different approaches to the intersection of global sustainability and what tourism can do for the world because of these perspectives.

So thank you for sharing that, like you mentioned, you know, growing up with your parents, that also influences how you see tourism. And so I think every little piece of the puzzle really tell helps to tell the story and shape the story of this industry. So looking at your time with World Travel Market, you said you started with it, when it was in its infancy has grown to be one of the major events, if not the major event, global event and travel it expanded from being just this UK focused. Tourism gathering. Can you talk about kind of your time there and how this started to take you in the direction of responsible tourism and sustainable tourism? Where did that uncover itself?

08:29

Sure, well, um, when I when I started my the key focus of my I was at a very junior level, I was at an entry level, Junior marketing executive and my job then was to help internationalize World Travel Market, bring in more people from across the world, encourage the French to do business with Chileans for the Middle East to start doing business with the USA for seeing cross pollenization between Latin America and parts of Asia. So it was it was all about facilitating international business. And the industry was at a time of growth and development. You know, you we had the low cost airlines. People were really on this this growth bandwagon within tourism. And while Travel Market, helped facilitate that, and helped catalyze a lot of it, which in lots of ways was very, very positive. But in 1996, I took over the reins of World Travel Market. So I've been working on the event for some time prior to that. And when I took over the reins, I just ended up thinking, you know, if as an industry, we don't protect the very product we're seeking to promote, then we will destroy our own business model. And to me that seemed hugely stupid, and actually too Clear, responsible. And so I assess about developing an initiative at World Travel Market, which at the time was called Environmental Awareness Day.

And it was all about trying to educate the industry on the importance of the environment, and why we should be more responsible and protective of it in, you know, DC businesses. And I remember the very first event that I ran, we attracted 5000 companies from 190 countries around the world, over 45,000 people. And the very first event I ran in 1996, attracts a total of 30 people. And I thought, Okay, that's interesting. It wasn't quite an international audience. But it wasn't getting that much traction, clearly. And I didn't give up on it. But it became world responsible tourism day. And it's now we did it in partnership with the United Nations. And it's now the largest gathering of responsible tourism professionals in the world. But it's taken 25 odd years to get to that point. So in 1996, that was the my experience then. And so I thought, Okay, I've also got to come up with a better idea, something that the industry feels that it can't ignore. And so I started to look for I was looking for something at the same time, I've just become a mom. And that also changes your perspective on things. And so I was looking for a cause that I felt reflected in the needs of children and families, because I recognize that there were lots of people in tourism that were actually families and parents, but it had to be global in its reach, because we're a global industry. And it also had to have environmental values, which reflected my priorities really.

I started doing my research. And then I learned that a child died every 17 seconds from dirty water, because of the effects of diarrhea, bilharzia, cholera, those sorts of things. And that really shocked me as a young mom. And then I also learned at that time that just one pound or $1.50, it was at the time, if you'd actually deliver clean water to a child for nearly 10 years. And I just thought, Wow, if I can get a pound or $1, off everybody coming to go travel market, then that would give me 55,000 pounds 40 to $45,000. And I could really do something with that. And that's why I called it just to drop because my premise and principle was, if everybody in the industry was willing to give me a pound or $1, then collectively as an industry, we could make a real difference. And we could create real impact with that. And we could help transform lives as a result. And therefore, it has its environmental connotations, and it has many more now, but at least the industry was socially engaging with communities across the world by giving back. And so that's really how my journey evolved into both of those spaces.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 13:24

Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's just so interesting to think about the difference in the industry, from 919 96. Until now, and how much the focus has shifted, especially the last two years to being more responsible, looking at the ways tourism has impacted the world and how we want that to look in the future. And so I think so many businesses are looking for something like just to drop to be aligned with, but then also to learn from and say, like, how can we take what we have and, and do something more with it? Like, how do how does travel just become this platform for the change that we want to see in the world. And I think it's a really exciting time to see the innovation that's already occurred in the last 18 months to two years and to think about where we will be having this conversation in another 10 years. And hopefully, it's like, what, there was a time we didn't talk about sustainable tourism, like why was that ever a fad or a trend? You know?

14:36

Well, I mean, what when I started back in 96, people don't really understand sustainability, they that people find that word very confusing, which is why at the time, we use the words responsible tourism because I think people could could understand that better personally. Now, I think the time has changed is that you know, it's not about generating awareness and understanding any longer. You know, we have to move way beyond that. And it really is about action. And I think one of the reasons why I set up just to draw and continue to get involved in sustainability, environmental spaces for me, actions have always spoke in louder than words. And, you know, there's so much talk, our industry has an enormous amount of power to to facilitate change, but it doesn't always use it. And so I think words are easy, and actions need to speak louder. And so I would be encouraging anybody in in the tourism space now to really, really think about how they can develop and, and evolve what they have been doing. And I think, you know, the pandemic has been a real disaster for our industry. But but the planet has been seen to benefit. And I think there's a real message there to all of us that says, okay, as we rebuild our industry, you know, it is not right to build in the way that we were doing before, we have to change our approach. And we have to be much more conscious of our of our footprints. And we have to look at how do we mitigate that. And we can still create wonderful journeys and experiences for people, because there's so much good that our industry can help people experience, but we have to do it differently. And going back to the way it was, is, to my mind unacceptable. Yeah,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 16:39

I just was thinking about the initial kind of when I began engaging in tourism from that sustainable responsible lens. And I even I have my master's in sustainable destination management. And I remember telling people and they just look at me, like, I have no idea what you just said to me. It's definitely been like, it's been a bit of an uphill climb. But I do think like you said that the the period of like education and easing people into the idea that this might be what we need, I feel like is coming to an end. And this action forward time is really what we're seeing. I know that with just a drop, and also, with World Tourism Day, a lot of what you have focused on is the UN Sustainable Development Goals, and that your organization's supports 12 out of 17 of those goals. Would you mind sharing with our listeners a little bit about what those goals are? How that supports your work, and what that means within this context?

17:47

Sure, well, water is the essence of life. And it I didn't realize this when I started, because what really catalyzed me to, to focus on water was the fact that a child died so quickly, it's 17 seconds. And I felt the industry could have an impact on that. But what I learned as I got more involved in it was just how transformational providing access to a safe water supplies to people. So you know, currently, there are women and children trekking six kilometers a day to collect water, that water is dirty, it makes them sick and ill, and they don't have necessarily the money for medicines to help help make them feel better. Because they're spending all that time tracking, they are vulnerable. They you know, we have had instances of women and children being raped or abducted and recruited into things like the Lord's Resistance Army, being attacked by wild animals. So there's a health and safety issue associated with that. But if you provide a clean, safe, clean water supply to communities close to their homes, they're not spending that time doing that kind of tracking. It means that the women have more time to do potentially income generating occupations, and we help them with with loans and training to do that. But it also means that with water, they can grow crops, with crops, they can feed their families, and with excess crops, they can trade and that helps them get out of the poverty trap. And as a consequence of that, they're then able to pay their children's school fees to be able to go to school. So it immediately impacts you know, SDGs one to six. So poverty reduction, health and wellness. Good education.

20:01

Equality of girls because we help girls stay in school, because we teach them about menstrual hygiene management. And one of the things that I found quite horrific was how many girls actually dropped out of school when they reach puberty, but also what they have to cope with because they don't understand what's happening to their bodies. boys in school don't understand that either. Nor even to some of the mothers and when we learned that some some of the girls when they went to their mothers or their fathers to actually get some help, some of the girls were being beaten up by the fathers because they thought it was a sign that they've been sleeping with other men.

So there's a whole host of taboos and misinterpretations of something that is actually about women being normal. And so by providing menstrual hygiene management in schools, where we teach, not just the girls, but the male, female teachers and the boys, then you create a greater sense of understanding and equality and girls are encouraged to stay in school. And then a lot of the work that we are also doing which is linked to preserving water, we build things like sand dams and semi arid environments like Kenya. And by putting more water into those sand dams, it improves the water table. So it helps mitigate against climate change, people are able to grow terraces, and from that we can grow crops, which enable them to have greater food security. So it reduces no hunger. And it also facilitates climate mitigation, which again, is one of the Sustainable Development Goals. And I suppose another key one, because there's so many, I won't mention them all.

But another key one for us would be partnership. And, you know, we really believe in partnership, we can't do what we do in the countries that we're operating in, without the help and support of our partners. And there, they fall into two camps. One is our local partners in the field, who are all local people who are supporting us, and we're supporting them and the work that we do, and also our partners in terms of the corporate world who are individual donors, or philanthropists, who are investing in us, I believe, to create long term legacies. And again, this goes back to my whole concept behind sustainability. Because I first set up just to drop, I was aware that there were 1000s, of discarded hand pumps across lots of parts of the world, that Africa particularly, and I was horrified at the level of investment had gone into those.

And the fact that it had become wasted, and it wasn't there doing the purpose that it was created for in the first place. So I absolutely vowed that we would not be that kind of organization. And that, you know, even if we were small, whatever we did, was going to have a long standing sustainable impact. And and so the way we operate is that we work with local communities so that they have ownership of what we're doing together. They are trained and how to maintain and look after those programs. And we continue to support and help them and we monitor for a minimum of seven years. And that way, we have a partnership with our funding partners and our local partners and the communities that is sustainable, long lasting, and people can have faith that they are genuinely making a difference and transforming people's lives for the long term.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 23:45

Well, one of the things that I really wanted to get across in this interview is how impactful water is to so many things. So I really appreciate how you took us through those some of those goals to show just how clearly that is related to so many parts of our lives. And what an important issue this is globally. And I think this also goes to travel I think this is where why we see so many tribal leaders that become engaged in this type of work in their during their career or after their tourism career has the opportunity to travel and see what it's like in other parts of the world to really engage with communities and understand the issues and needs that they're facing from an authentic view, not just this outsider view of issues, but actually being on the ground and taking time to connect with local communities and see these larger impacts.

I think we can travel and as a traveler who can't find clean drinking water when you're traveling somewhere, we can immediately understand there's that need right for clean drinking water. But we might not think about these women and children walking for miles and miles to gather water, and what that means for them in terms of, as you mentioned their safety. And then to peel it back another step to say like, well, if they're spending these hours and hours collecting water, then as you mentioned, they can't be working, they can't be in school. And so I just, I really appreciate that deeper understanding of what something as simple, seemingly simple as clean water really means for people and for communities. I just think it's so deeply important to have that broader understanding of what it means it's easy to dismiss something that seems on the surface, so simple, or that seems like we could just send a water pump, and that would solve the issue.

Or we can provide bottled water, and it will solve the issue. But we're not really solving the issue, we're just providing this temporary relief of something. And so I just think I really value that perspective that you shared. And it also reminded me of something that comes up a lot in these conversations is how we can give better and how we can invest better, so that we aren't doing something like providing, you know, water pumps, or wells or things that aren't sustainable. So can you talk to me a little bit about that process? How I know you've said you've worked with communities to kind of devise what their needs are? What would actually support them? But how did you determine what would be the best way to support communities with clean water?

26:43

Okay, well, um, some of it starts with the just drop team, who are a team of specialists, and engineers, and hydrogeologists. So they really understand how to create, and many of them are actually, they're all volunteers, and a number of them are ex military. So they know how to deal with very difficult environments. But you know, the British Army, I've got a good reputation in terms of how to engage with communities. So what happens is that some of our officers will go into the field, and they will sit down and talk to the communities directly. And they will ask them exactly what it is that they need, and where they where they believe the solution lies. And our team then have the environmental engineering and hydrogeology expertise, to be able to ascertain whether that's actually achievable or not. And, you know, one of our our team, for example, will sit down with a village and village community in India and we we make sure that we get all the women involved.

So that it's it is an inclusive discussion. It's not done by all the men in the village, actually, everybody has to get involved, and they will sit and they will draw on the ground and math of the village and they will start to work out where they think that the best places might be. And we assess the terrain. And with all our programs and projects in whatever country we are, we take huge account of the environmental environment directly. So our solutions are quite different depending on which country we're in. So for example, in in Kenya, we would look at doing projects like the building of sand dams, where you structure a dam across what a dry riverbed and the sand collects and you capture the water during the rainy season, because otherwise it just disappears and runs off. Or within a rock catchment, we will take a rock side of a hillside, clean it of all the vegetation, so that when the water comes, it hits the rock face, and the water then trickles into tanks that we create in constructs. And that way we can store water for the long term. And it's another form of rainwater harvesting. We do rainwater harvesting for schools, that in Cambodia where the groundwater is often polluted and badly polluted to the point that it can even have, you know, we find traces of arsenic in it.

We end up using bio sand filters and we issue those to each household so that when they collect water from a centralized pump, they then filter it in their own homes. In Nicaragua, we run piped water systems directly into people's homes. In Uganda. We can be doing shallow wells or borehole wells. So every environment is slightly different. But it's sensitive to those environmental conditions. And it's absolutely sensitive to the social needs of the communities that we're trying to support.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 30:14

Yeah, that's so it's so incredible to think about that level of diversity across the offerings, because, like you said, every place is so different in its specific needs, and how they can manage it. And a lot of times, I think that we create this kind of blanket solution, and we try to go from one place to the next and replicate it, because it worked here, and it should work here, and it should work here. And then that's where we come into this problem of this. You know, our philanthropic efforts or volunteer efforts, really not serving the community, because we aren't taking the time to ensure that it's what the community actually needs, or will benefit. And so thank you for sharing that, because I think it's really important to see that it needs to be this community led program, and also that engagement initially helps to ensure I'm sure you've found the sustainability of this project over the long term, if they are invested that deeply from the beginning, they're going to help to ensure that it continues within each community.

31:24

Absolutely. And we we talk about working to the heehee principles. And he he is actually a Tanzanian stool with three legs. So our legs are water, sanitation, and hygiene education. But the seat of the stool is the community and the community are the people that pull the whole thing together. And yes, they do need our help and support not just financial, but technical. But it's also the training and development that we do with the community so that they know how to look after our projects, their projects, when it is complete. And I remember, I remember going to see one of our projects in Uganda. And this was a borehole and it was in the middle of nowhere in a village. And there were two young boys and two older men. And they I wish I filmed at the time, but I didn't. But they demonstrated to me how they had been trained to take this entire hand pump apart, clean it and pull, pull it put it all back together again. And it took about 40 minutes, but the whole village came out to watch them do it. And they were trying to do that every few months. And I spoke to one of the boys afterwards. And I said to him, how long did it take you to learn how to do this. And he said, Well, it took about three months. He said, But my family are really proud of me.

My village community is really proud of me. And I want to become a mechanical engineer. And this was a young lad and a very remote community. But you know, it is by sort of giving people that this vital, vital leg up. And, and the thing that I've seen a notice in all my travels around the world, and wherever you might be. You know, as people, we all want the same things, largely when it comes to the basics, you know, we, we want, we want our families and our children to be healthy. We want them to get a good education, we want them to be safe. You know. And so these are basics that, you know, everybody should be entitled to. And I suppose just to drop loose to facilitate and support that. And we do that with the generous support of travel companies that sort of understand that there is an opportunity to make a difference, whilst they're also making a difference in the journeys and the holiday experiences that they are creating products.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 34:17

Yeah, and I I also love this idea and coming back to your initial description of it being just a drop that it's not necessarily this huge commitment or it eases this ability to give back right and it doesn't overburden small companies like myself, I can be involved in this. I don't have to say I can't be involved because I don't make millions of dollars every year. I can still give what I can give and I love that idea of it being really inclusive in terms of giving and support as well and as being easy and then also being really clear in what it's creating. I just think all of that is a really, I really appreciate, appreciate that in the model. And I love that and allows for me to be something that me and others like myself to be engaged in something that has a larger ripple effect, while still being able to just give what I can give.

35:19

Yeah, and, and I think, you know, I think charitable giving is a very personal thing, and we look to be your personal charity. And, you know, our cause will not necessarily have resonance with everybody. But those it does have resonance with we totally embrace, we feel that they become part of the, you know, just a drop family. And because they're integral to us being able to do what, what we're attempting to do, for others in the field. And so this is where that sense of partnership, going back to the Sustainable Development Goals, I think is is really key. And it's a really important one. And I think there's a real opportunity, and I was I I've started to call it is what I call the transformational triangle.

Because I think one of the things that we have, at least I hope we've learned through the pandemic is actually how important collaboration is within our sector. And that doesn't, that's not exclusive to our sectors, every sector. But if we really want business to be the sort of force for good that it purports that it wants to be, then to achieve that it needs to collaborate. And you know, when I say that collaboration, that triangle, I'm looking at government, and I'm looking at business, and I'm looking at the NGO third sector, and how can we actually be more effective together because governments create the right frameworks for businesses and the third sector to operate. But I really see business as the key, the key driver, the catalyst for change, they can be the engine room, they can make things happen.

But people underestimate the really important role that the third sector, the NGO sector play because they're the operators on the ground. And it's through that, that you get the long term sustainability, because a business doesn't have time, or the expertise to do both. And that's why I think you're greater and better collaboration across our industry, both with government, private sector, and the NGO sector would achieve transformational results, which I suppose is why I call it transformation triangle.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 37:52

Yeah, that kind of takes me back to the kind of the early idea of corporate social responsibility where businesses were, in fact, trying to, I guess, manage this on their own right, like this was the model of maybe the early 2000s. Like, where businesses were starting to feel some of that that wish to give back that wish to create change. So they had departments that are looking at, you know, what, what is corporate social responsibility? What should we be doing? How can we do it, but just as you mentioned, it's not necessarily where they're set up. That's not why they created their business in the first place. So it's not where their skillset lies. And so then again, people maybe got turned off from that idea, because it took away energy, it took away focus, it wasn't succeeding and thriving, because it wasn't where they should have been maybe putting their direction. And so this collaboration allows for that to still happen without it becoming, putting people doing the things that they shouldn't be doing. Like everybody does the thing they do best. And then we combine and then like you said, this is where we create the impact.

39:04

It's about harnessing the expertise where the expertise exists. And, you know, as I say, I you know, because I, because I've ended up over my career, working with governments and big international trade associations and travel and tourism. So I understand how how they operate and the role and function that they can play. But fundamentally, I'm actually might natural spaces being being in the business world. And in setting up just to drop, I was very aware of the criticism that can be thrown at charities about wasting money and not delivering. And so I was very, and people not knowing exactly what was happening to the money and funds and I thought, right, we're not going to be like that, you know, where we're absolutely going To ensure that whatever we deliver, people can have trust and faith that you that we are, we are who we're saying we are, and that we will deliver on our promise. And they are part of the journey as well. And be completely transparent about it. And, and if we have projects that are challenging, and take us a while to make successful we we own up to that. And, you know, we explain what the challenge might be. So it's, but but at least we have the expertise to resolve those problems. So it's it for me all of it, it just boils down to exactly the same thing, time and time again, is that word that nobody understood, and in the late 1990s, sustainability, and it's about long term, sustainable, appropriate solutions that we all collaborate to help help make happen and achieve in a partnership.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 41:03

That's such a great segue to where I wanted to go is, you know, we are really seeing now a consumer driven need to meet sustainability initiatives that are Travelers, we're seeing more travelers who are asking for more meaningful trips that they want to have a greater impact when they travel. And then businesses in turn are also looking kind of, they've reflected over this period of time they're trying to figure out can how can we build back better if we're not going to go back? How do we move forward? And I'm just wondering, if you might provide maybe a few ideas of how people can either tap into this sense of purpose and responsibility within their businesses, or maybe outside of strategic collaborations, what can businesses do to support and facilitate that kind of change? What would what would you suggest would be a first step when they're examining how to make this sort of transition?

42:07

If we think about the responsible traveler, and I think there's there, there's there is an evolving, traveler. Now, I think there is a trend towards more immersive experiences. And as a consequence, you travel businesses will need to reflect that. And I think what responsible travelers are looking for now more than ever, is a way to connect with local people, and look at local lifestyles, local experiences, and local cuisine. So the word local, becomes quite significant. And there'll always be a market for those, quite rightly, that want to flop down at the beach, and, you know, and be at a resort and drink and party. But there is definitely a more discerning traveler now. And I think, you know, the millennials are starting to reflect that increasingly. And as a traveler, I think you have to be very conscious now. And hopefully, we will see more of that of the environmental and social impacts that you are having when you travel, and how those can either be negative or positive.

And so for example, it was only a couple of years ago that cape town had a real panic that they were going to end up completely running out of water as a whole time. And that catalyzed the tourist industry, other businesses, local government, at the local population, to look at how shoot behaviors change. And with the growth of of an impact of climate change, I think that kind of situation is going to arise increasingly. And so I would always say to people be very aware of your water usage. And it is quite difficult for sometimes for people to think like that, because we're so used to turning on a tap and getting water. But actually, when you're traveling, it's one of those areas to feel particularly responsible about. And, you know, I think, again, look at the positive contributions that you can make when traveling so you're eating local restaurants, even if you are in a resort, don't feel that you have to stay in that resort the whole time to take advantage of the opportunity to explore the less beaten tracks. So you know, explore destination almost be a temporary local, as opposed to a tourist, think about it in those terms.

How can you either leave no footprint or a positive footprint on the journey that you've been on? And, you know, travel companies in terms of response to that need to think about the sorts of experiences that they I'm looking to to offer. And in this climate now, I think we should all get to the point where we measure our carbon footprint, we measure the footprint of our qualities, that businesses measure their carbon footprint, and we all have to aim to move towards a, a net zero strategy. And that that will take time. And I think people can be a bit apprehensive of that, and not feel that they've quite got the knowledge and expertise to do that. But the knowledge and expertise does exist, and it's far more importantly, you step on the journey, and make those incremental steps, then are too fearful to get on it the pathway in the first place.

So I think we've got a massive opportunity as an industry. And you know, some of the, you know, the bigger companies are, are investing lots in terms of research and development, which is really encouraging. We know that the future of aviation is, you know, for it, to have a future, it has to move away from fossil fuels and develop, you know, different different fuel sources. So all of that is going on in the background. But actually, the industry is made up of lots of small, medium sized businesses, and a bit like just to drop your if each of these businesses starts to think more consciously, of its own footprint, then it has a massive collective impact. And we start to become an industry that genuinely is sustainable, is responsible, and can be a force for good. And to do that, we can make it easier for ourselves if we all decide how to effectively collaborate and find the appropriate partners for your own business. Mm hmm.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 47:01

Yeah, I love how it keeps coming back to this idea of collaboration. I just, that's kind of been my favorite thing that I've seen is that truly starting to happen, again, over this period of this pandemic? I wanted to go back to the the comments you're making about local, and you mentioned kind of traveling as if you've lived there. And that is one of those concepts that's really at the root of my company of Lotus sojourns. And there's a quote that I just thought I would share this something that I kind of always tap into, in a in the space of planning, engagement with community and traveling. And it's by John Raskin, and he said, It is a good and safe rule to sojourn in every place as if you meant to spend your life there. Never omitting an opportunity to do a kindness or speaking a true word or making a friend. And I just think, if we operate out of that space, yeah,

48:03

No, that's beautiful. You need to send me that quote, like, again. That's it. That's absolutely right, though, it is, I, I do think that there is a bit of a change. I think the younger generation have a different view and approach to traveling to the generation that I I've been involved in. And that gives me hope, it really does. But I'd like to see the talking stop, or be in the background, and in the foreground, to see more action. And I would just encourage everybody to start taking those vital essential steps. And, you know, where we're on a journey with, with just a drop, and in our environment, mental footprint isn't at all bad, really. But are so I'm led to believe, but we're about to set on a journey, which involves us measuring every single project that we do in every country that we do it in, as well as the organization itself, in order to go on that journey to become net zero as an organization. And I don't know, another charity organization at this point in time that's actually committed to doing that. But I'm very committed to it. And my team is, and we're a small, small organization.

So you know, and we work in, in successive nations across Asia, Africa and Latin America. So if we can do it, you know, every every project that we do will be different. But if we can do do that, then I feel We are living our values. And as I say, actions speak louder than words. And as Gandhi said, Be the change you want to see. So, you know, we can't, we can't beat the drum, but sustainability without living is ourselves. So, so yes. So I would just be positive about it and say, if we can think of going on this journey, I'm sure we will be challenged by it at times. But But I think we'll learn an awful lot. And it's by learning a lot that we actually started to change behaviors. And it's through that that I think, is is actually the positive thing. It great to become that zero, yes, but it's actually all the learnings that we get on that journey will change our behaviors anyway, which is great.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:52

Yeah, thank you for sharing that I want to I wanted to bring that up. Because I think it's one really impressive to be in the reach of that goal. And then also to, to just really let people hear the message, that it's okay to try and it's okay to not get it right the first time. And it's okay for this to be a learning process, because we're not at the place in our history where there's this, like, step by step instruction on how to be carbon zero in every single business. And so we do, you have to, again, collaborate, we have to lean on each other to find the solutions. But most importantly, is we just have to take a step forward, and and start creating those changes that will create the outcome that that we need as a global community.

So thank you for sharing that. And I think that I hope that it inspires people. Again, kind of like you were mentioning to go to these small and medium sized organizations that it's okay for us to try to, we don't need a team who is like, designed and built for this that already knows how to put it into place. I've spoken with other people, too, that said, you know, I just started googling things. And then they started calling people. And then all of a sudden, I'm the expert. And they're like, I've only been doing this for six months. But somehow I like Googled more things than other people have Googled. And it's really the space where I think a lot of people are uncomfortable, like they really want to be an expert in something like this, before they take an action. And I think we can't wait for that to happen. We need everybody to be looking at this from all the angles. And I think that's also where we'll see more solutions is by everybody getting their skin in the game, and then and then doing things wrong, and then figuring out what's the right way, and then we'll be able to be moving forward.