Episode 59 - Dee Gibson, Kalukanda House & Velvet Orange

Travel

Jan 12

When you travel, do you find yourself searching for more real estate? You want to hang on to the experience. You want to have this permanent connection or a reason to go back. You feel this is home and then immediately you ask yourself, how do I create something here that forces me to come back?

Christine was reminded of her experience traveling in Thailand. It’s one that sits so strongly in her body, her senses, and her memory. She remembers arriving on the property in Bangkok. Christine oddly had that sense of feeling at home. The energy of the property was very welcoming and inviting. In the tradition, Christine took her shoes off before she entered and her feet hit the teak floors, it felt like nothing she had ever experienced.

She could feel everything that had been in that space before and the story of the property beyond what was being told to her. The art and the textures of the textiles. The openness of the building and the air coming through was a very vivid, sensorial experience.

It’s an experience that Christine will also remember and a place that will always feel like home in her heart.

Today’s guest, Dee Gibson, designs experiences for conscious travelers while also talking about things she’s passionate about. Dee knows design plays a key part in travelers experiencing other cultures and countries.

Dee Gibson is a London based Interior Designer and Hotelier and a regular speaker and panelist. As founder of the Kalukanda House, a luxury villa in Sri Lanka, Dee has used the interplay between design and travel to delight guests in Sri Lanka and inspire clients in London.

Dee works with clients and colleagues across the world and believes that these cross-influences and connections bring an enriched portfolio of work through an exploration of other cultures and viewpoints.

Christine is so excited to explore the idea of how travel and design can come together to create a richer tapestry for our travel experiences.

Tune in to hear Christine and Dee discuss:

Dee’s background and how her journey to Sri Lanka impacted her life
The intersection of design and travel and how they work together to deepen the experience
Why conscious travel is important
How the choices we make create a more responsible travel experience
How the Sri Lanka house became more than a location
Designing luxury experiences for the conscious traveler
How safety and travel experiences can cross paths

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

Learn more about Dee Gibson, the Kalukanda House, Velvet Orange and book your next experience here

Follow Dee, the Kalukanda House & Velvet Orangeon on Instagram @deegibson2017 @kalukandahouse @velvetorangedesign

Also, follow Dee Gibson over on Facebook and LinkedIn

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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Dee Gibson(Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

Travel, Sri Lanka, experience, world, stay, create, book, luxury, women, conversation, life, house, space, local

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul Of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul Of Travel.

Dee Gibson is a London based Interior Designer and Hotelier and a regular Speaker and Panelist Dee works with clients and colleagues across the world and believes that these cross influences and connections bring an enriched portfolio of work through an exploration of other cultures and viewpoints. Positive international influences create a colorful, nurturing world. As founder of kala conda house a luxury villa in Sri Lanka. De has used the interplay between design and travel to delight guests in Sri Lanka, and inspire clients in London.

In our conversation, we examine this intersection of design and travel, and how they work together to deepen the experience. We also talk about conscious travel and how choices in where we stay, how we engage with local culture, support local guides, and slow down and immerse all create a more responsible and equitable travel experience.

This conversation touches a little bit on many things that we are both passionate about. And I'm delighted to be able to share it here with you. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Dee Gibson.

I am so happy to be sitting down today with the Dee Gibson. And we have a fun, kind of unusual topic today we're going to explore the intersection of design and travel. And I am just really excited to see what this brings to our conversation as well as play a little bit in the space of mindful travel and responsible travel and kind of how we can bring all these things together to create more rich and engaging travel experiences. So, Dee, welcome so much to Soul Of Travel.

03:40

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 03:44

Thank you. So just to begin our conversation, I'd love for you to share with our listeners to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about who you are in what you do in the world of travel and a little bit in design as well, because I know that's what we're folding into this conversation.

04:03

Sure, I am interior designer and hotelier but I will start with the travel piece because that's what we're here to talk about. I went to Sri Lanka, which is my original country of origin back in 2016, with my English husband and my children and I had lived there as a little girl but I was born and raised to the UK. And I'd always had a calling to go back. Obviously I've traveled in my life to Sri Lanka but hadn't been for quite some time. And I was really desperate to get back and show my children where half their heritage was from. So eventually made it open 2016 For what was meant to be just a two week holiday, dip our toes in and maybe if we like it will keep going back and it for me felt like coming home and it really resonated with my family as well. So on the last day of that holiday, bye found myself being very impulsive and buying some land. I'm a developer as well in my other life, and coming back to the UK, owning this piece of land because I really didn't want to leave without knowing that I had a real tangible reason to go. And I don't know, it was just something that it was a, it was a very strong feeling that if I didn't do that, that maybe time would pass again. And yet another 15 or 16 years would go by without anything happening.

So subsequent to 2016, I built what is now California house, which is a boutique hotel is a villa, really, it's a fully staffed Villa that we wanted, as a boutique hotel, were part of the hip hotel collection. And yeah, I'm really excited about it. Because in the travel space, it started off as a way for us to have somewhere to go in terms of a home from home over in Sri Lanka, then during the project, it melt morphed into an opportunity for me to showcase my design skills. But since then, actually, it's become so much more than just a location, it now embodies all of the things that I want to achieve things that I'm very passionate about, causes that I want to support, things that I want to achieve in the space of female empowerment, and all of these other wellness ideas. So it's kind of growing and morphing and organically becoming even bigger than it was intended. And then my day to day life in the UK is around interior design working for private homeowners and I work all over London, I've been doing that for 20 years.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:37

Excellent, thank you for sharing that it really reminded me of actually, every time I travel, I've like near the end of the journey, I actually find myself searching for real estate. And I think maybe it's that like I want to hang on to this experience. And literally, I guess own a part of it, or, like you said, kind of have this permanent connection or this reason to go back. And for myself, I live in Colorado in the United States, but I grew up in Montana. And again, like whenever I go there, I feel kind of like you like this is home. And then I immediately am like, how do I create something here that kind of hires me or forces me to come back.

So I have had a very similar kind of, I don't know, push and pull related to that. So I really realize what that feels like, the thing that I wanted to share too, for our listeners. So we're going to a little bit later get into this idea of how travel and design can come together to create kind of this richer tapestry for our travel experiences. And as I was preparing for our call, I was trying to, I guess, think about how we could convey this to to the listeners. And I was reminded of experience traveling in Thailand. And it's one that is so like, it sits so strongly in my body and my sense memory and I was thinking, Okay, this is the perfect example for how travel and design really do intersect. And I was in Thailand. And I was touring, I believe it's Jim Thompson house was a Seder. And I remember arriving on the property in Bangkok or outside of Bangkok. And I was just like, actually, oddly had that sense of feeling home, like it just felt so like welcoming and inviting. And just the energy of the property was very welcoming. And then in the tradition, you take your shoes off before you enter. And it's built out of teak and I don't think that I have ever walked on a teak floor before. But like my feet hit the that ground and it felt like nothing I had ever experience and I was so like, grounded into that experience. And I could kind of feel like everything that kind of had been in that space before like coming to me through belted and the the story of this property beyond what was being told to us or whatever.

And then the art and the the textures of the textiles and the openness of the building and that air coming through. And it was just this very, very vivid, sensorial experience. And so I think like, you could go to a museum and learn about all these things that had happened, you know, through this company, this was what the experience was about, which would have been fine, but outside of that it allowed for me to then actually have this very rich experience that has stayed with me. I don't really actually remember the tour that much I remember how connected I was to the art and the architecture and everything that that brought me into so I just kind of wanted to start there. sharing that experience because I think this is something that we maybe don't pay attention to as much when we travel, and it really can allow for us to deeply connect to a space.

10:13

I completely agree. You used a few words there that I think for me a key sensory experience, feeling grounded, you know, the fact that you didn't really pay much attention to the tool, even though the tool could have given you more information about that actually, what you had was this 360 sensorial experience you smelt you felt you touched, you could probably taste even stuff that was in the air, you know, you wanted to look with your eyes at VR. And it's the symbiosis of all of those elements in any space that make it really special. And I think what's interesting is the fact that you took your shoes off. And maybe for the first time, in a long time, living in the Western world, wearing shoes, the whole time we're standing on concrete with, we're walking on, you know, manmade surfaces the entire time, and if anything lockdown has shown us is that we have this craving for the natural world. And potentially, in that moment, what you had when you took your shoes off, was the soles of your feet, had the experience, you know, I actually believe that everything has an energy to it.

But part of that comes from you're probably ready in that moment to just really experience something really different. And the fact that you had been airlifted out of, I'm sure where you live is beautiful, but essentially a concrete jungle just like I do in London, to somewhere which is so simple. It's not overstuffed with decoration, and everything's different. And it's open. I mean, you even talked about feeling the breeze on your skin, all of that is part of a spatial experience, which is why I think design plays such a key part in the way we as travelers experience that another culture, another country, even another area in our own country.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 12:05

Yeah, thank you for pulling some of those key points out because I do think it just it's such an amazing way to experience a place is to pay attention is to pay attention to where you are, I guess, period, but then to pay attention to literally what's surrounding you. And then like you said, you know, I do love to be walking around in my bare feet. But I'm not usually walking on like this just gorgeous, very old, you know, kind of, and like you said, like the energy of that wood was just something that we don't typically get to experience. And so it just Yeah, it was such a such a powerful experience. And I guess this would be a really good segue into talking about why travel is important. And And beyond that, why conscious travel is important. And how travel helps us to kind of open up our mind and creates a space where we can allow for that to happen.

So very much like you were saying the experience, I just had kind of being transplanted in this different environment, naturally open some of that thing of those things up. But when we are really looking at having a mindful travel experience, kind of examining where we stay, how we engage with culture, slow travel like that, you know, idea moving slowly through space and time. And then also some things that I know that you and I are both really passionate about is supporting local guides and grassroot causes when we travel, and all of those things are kind of, I think, what makes travel really matter to us and to others. So that's where I would love to, to sit in this conversation as we begin.

13:51

Thank you for asking that. I guess my definition of conscious travel is there's two pieces to it. There's consciously in terms of what we've just been speaking about, which is that really paying attention to the space that we're in, and also just being in the moment, turning off your phone being with whoever you're with, whether it's your family, or your partner or friends, that sort of conscious piece, and then there's conscious which is thinking about where we're spending our money, and how we're spending our money. So and I think those two things need to go hand in hand. I think travel is really, really important, for many reasons, because it gives us an opportunity to experience the world. In my lifetime, automation has just skyrocketed, and it's not slowing down. And actually even today, I thought, God I am living life at 100 miles an hour. And on the one hand, it's brilliant that I have the ability to multitask. I used to really take pride in the fact that I can multitask. Now I think it's a curse. Because actually your brain is shattered into a million different places never finish a task. And so I literally do Think we're flying through our lives, and we're becoming very desensitized. And I think as humans, we really need that kind of heart connection, we crave it. And you know, we find tries to find ways of sort of fulfilling those needs. When we go traveling, we have an opportunity to take ourselves out of that speed, and slow down. So slowing down gives us an opportunity to really experience place.

So yes, you can go and lie on a beach somewhere. But it's kind of not very fulfilling. You know, we watch so many great programs on TV, whether it's a documentary, or whether it's a drawing, or whenever I find myself looking at background, I don't if you do, I'm following the story. But I'm looking at houses and landscapes and god knows what else thinking got, you know, that needs to go on my bucket list. But to experience it, is something completely different. So firstly, we need to do that, because it gives us gives us an opportunity to really understand another place. And the problem with the last two years. And lockdown is, while it's automation has given us an opportunity to continue to live our lives. I mean, look at us, today, we're doing a zoom call, which is fantastic. Because you're in Kolak, Colorado, I'm in London, we can do this, it's amazing. But if our lives became so small, that we were all living in our boxes 24/7, we would be devoid of any kind of emotional experience. And I think the word emotional is really important for me here, I pour it into the way I design and I pour it into the way I organize travel for my guests. Because I want to feel everything. When I travel, I want to talk to people, I want to understand who they are, I want to go for a walk, follow my nose. And I might have been given a gut you know, as sort of a guide as to go from A to B, because that'll get you from A to B, but actually be quite nice to go from A to B via route C, because I'm going off the beaten track, you know, and this is what we encourage people to do when they come to calahonda house because rather than getting from one place to another in the shortest possible time, I think we should do it in the longest possible time when we're away.

Because it really gives us an opportunity to understand other cultures. And it means that we can add a perspective to the information that we're fed through newspapers through TV, we're bombarded aren't we we suck up so much stuff that's just fed to us and we take it in, we need to go out and start searching for answers ourselves and experiencing things ourselves. So we can add our own perspective to things. So that's the sort of conscious, I'm here in the moment piece, the conscious, how am I spending my money piece is really important. Because if one is a traveler, with a big purse, that's fantastic. You can travel to amazing places and stay in top hotels, which have the latest technology, you know, you might be on the other side of the world. But if you want a pizza, you can have a pizza, all of these kinds of things. I don't think that that is right. Because what it means is that none of the pounds and the Pence and the dollars that we are bringing into that country actually ends up in the hands of the people who need it most. And this it needs to be an exchange between us as travelers and the people who are receiving us into their lands.

If you can imagine, if you I think of it as when I'm traveling somewhere else as if I'm going into someone's home, we have to be respectful. We have to think about how we're spending money. There's nothing wrong with staying in really high end establishments, which Yeah, okay, might be expensive. But I would ask people to think about making choices, that means that some of that money can be going to local craftsmen, like local food vendors, you know, and having that sort of experience in a two way exchange.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 19:03

Yeah, there's so many good things in what you just said. But kind of starting where you ended there is this idea of the Equal Exchange. And I think this is something as a traveler that I've always really been keenly aware of, and it's not been Intel, you know, even the last few months where I've had the language to really explain what I thought I was feeling but for me, it was always noticing kind of how extractive travel felt like it felt very much as a consumer one sided that this was a very self serving experience, especially in the mass tourism model where you are meant to be meeting your travelers every need and when and making sure they're having this most fabulous experience is often the at the expense of the local economy and environments and community which you just mentioned. And I didn't really know how to say it as I just articulated it. In the past, I always just knew it was this feeling. And I, I felt I would often say I felt like a voyeur. Like I felt like I was kind of, you know, looking through this glass bubble and not really even appreciating. And I instinctively was trying to do that. But I didn't really know that path for connection and eventually found it in my desire to connect with women and a destination and artisans.

And I started through those interactions to kind of, like you said, become more deeply immersed, slow down, start to get off the beaten path, many places, like literally way off the beaten path for me. And really, that's when travel started to come alive. And when I saw the real value, and so I love for people who might be listening to just think about, you know, what are the choices they're making? How do they feel in the travel experience, have they ever had that kind of whisper of maybe this isn't balanced, or even and they didn't know what that meant? I think it's just such a good awareness. And something that, like I said, we really haven't had the language for communicating really efficiently until recent times. So I love that. And then the other thing that I wanted to tap into, and this is how we initially connected is this idea of ethical luxury. And looking at this, both from kind of a design perspective, but also from a traveler perspective. And a lot of people have this notes notion that either luxury can't be sustainable, because you know, it's too green. And, you know, ethical can't be luxurious, because you must need to be like camping or in the woods or off grid or hauling your water or whatever, you know, there's these this huge disconnect, when in reality, they can overlap really nicely. And so I would love for you to just share, because I know that you do that through the experiences you create a pelvic floor to house, what does that look like? And how can travelers experience kind of the best of both worlds in that in those two spaces?

22:14

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Because I think it's something that's really close to my heart. And I think the word luxury needs to be redefined. It's as far as I'm concerned, a bit of a dirty word, depending on which circle you're in, because it you say luxury, it feels like it's disposable. It's just people with money can just have whatever they want. Come What May it doesn't matter what's happening to the local landscape. I guess there is that kind of price tag elements to the word luxury. And unfortunately, I think that's sort of overtaken the entire concept of what it is for me luxury is about being sensorial comfort, you know, having all of the things that you're describing in your, you know, when when you first when we first started talking about how things feel on your skin, what you're smelling, what you're eating, what you're putting into your mouth, who you're talking to where you're sleeping, everything that you're looking at, how was it made. So, when I was building color, kinda house, I wanted to build in a colonial vernacular because it was something that was very close to my heart and reminded me of my time in Sri Lanka with my grandparents when I was little. I lived there when I was little between the age of six months and three.

So I wanted the old world I was still building with the old roof tiles and columns and all of this kind of stuff. But I wanted to make sure that everything that I used in terms of materials and the interiors finishings would be sourced from the local landscape, using local builders, you can look using local artisans, etc. And when we bought the land, there was a really beaten up old bungalow on the land. And it had old shutters. I mean, everything was just broken. But we kept as much as we could, we took off all the old roof tiles, we reused those, and then went and sourced more, you know, for for the extra because the new site was so much bigger. I kept all the old doors and shutters and then had new ones made in local sustainable wood. And the old ones were refurbished. And they're actually the design I designed the building to kind of talk to the original buildings. So in terms of shape, if you saw the original and the new one, I could point out where the old windows and doors were in the old building and where they are now. And they're in a sort of similar location. It felt right to me, it felt like I wasn't raping and pillaging if that makes sense. When I built the columns, I wanted to make sure that a local craftsman was was making them so this little guy came in and he sit down, sat there and handcrafted each column. I went and chose the cars locally. All All of the interiors, fittings and furnishings are from antiques places. So I went and spent, I mean, this is over the course of a year or so in between having my site visits with the builders that then go off and look at all the antiques places. And I got to know the people who ran these antique shops. And I haven't told this story in a while, actually. But there was one I ended up sourcing from till sweatshops in the end. And one of the places the owner said to me, he was he said, he had his business back in 2004, when the tsunami struck now around our part of coastline, as you know, Sri Lanka was hit badly in the tsunami of 2004. And it was hit really badly on the southern coast.

And he said, they saw the wave coming. And all of these people were sort of running back into land, Shouting, shouting for everyone to sort of run because, you know, danger was on its way. He just had his son. So his son was about three months older than my daughter, at the time, just born, he grabbed his son and literally ran up into the hill and managed to make her way. By the time he came back down to his shop, the whole thing was decimated. And so over the last 18 years or whatever, he's rebuilt his business. And it was really nice, because I had an opportunity to speak to the person who owns this shop, we built a relationship, I sourced most of my my pieces from him, he'd he'd refurbish them for me, then he ended up making all our four poster beds by hand. And it was a really lovely relationship that I built. Because I took the time to speak to someone, I was adamant that I didn't want anything to be shipped in. So for me ethical luxury is about creating a space, which is luxurious, but it's not about the fact that it cost a lot of money to make the luxury comes in the time that was spent, to create it, the love that went into it, the stories behind it. The antiques are very precious, because they've been around for a long time. But to be honest, they were sitting in the back of the shop underneath everything, because when I was building, you know, the antiques weren't really a thing that was necessarily sought after.

So there's that piece about how something's made, and whether we're respecting the local landscape, where we're spending our money, who we're sourcing from. And then there's the asset pool piece about, for me, encouraging my guests to understand the history of the building. I mean, I know the building's only a few years old, but history as in, actually, it's kind of older, it has an older soul. Because I've used a lot of the original pieces, it's full of antiques with history, like you said, you stood on that teak, and you felt the energy, you come into California house, you can feel the energy, I guarantee everyone tells me so and I know it myself, I laid the foundation stone, the foundation stone is underneath the sofa, in the main living room, you know, and you can feel all of that because you hear the story of the bills. And then we encourage people to go out, like I said, have amazing experiences, you can have fantastic food in top class hotels and restaurants equally. And I encourage people to do this. I asked them to mix it up by going to local street vendor. And you know, we point out what where to go and, you know, talking to people on the way there and it's, it's about the to do not have to be mutually exclusive. And I think we need to find a way of redefining this so that people can feel like they're staying in a beautiful luxurious place. So it's behind the layers.

By the way, the infrastructure of calla Canada is built such that, I mean I was born and raised in the UK. And I like my mod cons. So like for example, I've made sure that the plugs that we have at Calacanis are international plugs, so I don't have to take a you know, an adapter there the whole time to mattresses are really, really soft. I've got really gorgeous Rain Dance showerheads, but those are the things that make our lives comfortable. And the things that I understand is essentially a Westerner. But I'm living in Sri Lanka while I'm there. And I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to have nice things and stay in beautiful places. I think there is something wrong if it stops there. And there's no appreciation of the people and the landscape and where we are and leaving a piece of ourselves behind. I keep saying it is an exchange. It's a cultural exchange. It's a financial exchange. You know, this is how the world will continue or should continue to evolve. I think it's evolved in the last two years we've gone backwards. We need to get out back out there and feel some skin

Christine Winebrenner Irick 29:51

Hey, it's Christine. Interrupting this episode for a moment to make sure you know you still have time to Join our 2022 Lotus Book Sojourn This is a unique journey exploring the heart, the mind and the globe through the pages of nine specially selected books written by inspiring female authors. Your year long journey will include 18 guided virtual discussions with a community of light hearted women, as well as weekly journaling prompts and reflection, and an assigned travel companion for each book in the journey. Last year, women said this was one of the most surprising and impactful experiences they had. Join us for rich discussion, meaningful connection and opportunity for exploration from the comfort of your home, or wherever you might be in 2022.

Our first book club gathering on Zoom is January 12. Visit the website at www.lotus sojourns.com/book-sojourn to join today. Now back to our soulful conversation.

I keep thinking and you mentioned to this this idea of the energy but I'm thinking about, for me a luxury very much like you is this sensorial experience is something I feel racked in or in roped in, right. And I think it's become translated in, you know, still because luxurious but silk used to be luxurious because of what it took to produce it or to get it and the same with you know, teaks or metal precious metals, like they were this thing that it was a luxury because of what it took to get it but also like the stories that went along with that, and then that was kind of I keep coming back to like early explorers and like these, these things that used to be like elusive and magical and provide this sense of like on rapture, and it got lost, like, somehow we just hung a hold of like the material goods and not the experience part of it. And so I think it's really lovely to think about that. And I know when I've, I've stayed in a place you know, you can feel if it's a place that was just whipped up and created to lodge tourists, or if it was built with love and intention and care, like you're mentioning like you You can literally like, you can feel that old door and it will give you the love and the respect and and then the energy exchange is you appreciating it, you're leaving your your love and appreciation there for the next person. And I mean, I think that's kind of maybe a difficult concept, perhaps for some listeners to understand.

But I think it happens without your knowing and your awareness. So you don't necessarily need to, you know, I guess be fully conscious to that experience. But it happens. I mean, it's like sitting at your grandmother's table. And like knowing the story of the cracks in the wood or the meals that have been laid upon it. And if you enter into that space, you're going to feel that love, you know whether whether you're fully aware of it or not. And the experience you have in these two different types of spaces are going to just allow you to have two different experiences, even if they're right next to each other. And so I just really invite people to explore how they can have that type of experience by looking for a local property, asking the stories of things, I think in many properties, especially when you travel, everything is very intentionally chosen like a placemat, a bowl of plants, like they all these pieces have stories that tell us about where we are and why we're there. I mean, maybe perhaps that helps clean the air or keeps away insects or something like that. But it's still, like, once you know that you've you've stepped into another level of immersion within a design and a destination and a culture and you start to like just paint a different picture for yourself.

34:08

It's really true, but I think that's true. And I think also it's it's kind of easy to put it into perspective. If we think about going about our daily lives. And for example, going out to dinner, to your favorite restaurant or your favorite bar or even we have friends who have houses that we might think we really love that kitchen I really love that lounge. It's what is it about that space, or the design of that space and maybe it hasn't been designed, but it's been put together to make you feel whatever it is you want to feel whether you want to feel happy or uplifted or chilled out. The design of a space will help to evoke those feelings good design will help to evoke those feelings. We can look at a glossy magazine and in theory something could Look conceptually beautiful. But actually, it leaves us feeling devoid of something right? A beautifully curated space could look conceptually. Wow, that looks like a nice space. I don't want to walk into it though, I actually want to look at walk into the picture on the next page of this magazine, which is cozy and Higgledy Piggledy, and there are books in the background, and there are photos of people and I can see people laughing, or whatever it is. And all of those things together, come to create the energy of a space to make us feel something. And this is what travel is all about.

This is what design is about travelers a lot about life is about what we feel, I think we've just lost the ability to sit in a feeling is always so fleeting going out for dinner is too short, seeing friends is too short, you get that three hour hit, go to bed, up to work the next day, and we're in automate on world does that make sense? It's not enough to we need more of that sort of connection. So if we can think about what it is we like here is the same thing when you go on holiday, right, you're not gonna have such a enriched experience, if you're not staying somewhere, that gives you that sort of feeling of comfort, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't even have to be actually that super comfortable. It could be that actually you live in a super comfortable house. And you just want to get back out in nature and lie on a blanket onto the stars, because you want to feel the air on your skin, whatever it is that you might want to think about the feeling that you're trying to achieve. And how the space around you is going to give it to you. Yeah, and I also want to mention as well, part of that experience is talking to the staff wherever you stay. And I say you know the people who who are there to serve you. And we put a lot of thought into making your beds, putting the you know, creating the animals out of towels, and they put on your beds, you know, is your water cold enough?

Would you like another meal, you know, say for example, at my place, which is so low occupancy, we often have guests who come because it's so low occupancy, they can stay up to one or two o'clock in the morning, they can stay up all night if they want to. Because the place is entirely theirs. And the staff are up not whoring around, but there are because they want to make sure that you're comfortable and you know your welfare, and you're well watered, and then the guests go off to bed. And it's probably not really until they get back to the UK, they think God has guys were then up at 7am The next morning, to look after. So it's really kind of thinking about the fact that whether staff, a staff or not, they're still people, and it's how we treat the people around us, we'll get the best out of that experience as well. If that makes sense. It does.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 37:48

And I think it's so interesting thinking about good I think it's kind of this western fast paced, like you said, automated lifestyle, like we've almost been taught to not look at those things. If you know you go for a quick weekend and I don't know Boston or New York or London or something like you you're going you're in there you don't use expect your room to be clean, you never see the people who've done it, like it's very detached, they don't typically have the opportunity for that kind of connection and those travel experiences. And then you travel somewhere. You know, like Sri Lanka, when I was in Bali, I had this like we stayed in a sole occupancy house and the family that is the staff there, you know, much like you said they have every need was met, but also like they were so they became a part of our family for that week or so that we were in that house and that interaction, enrich the experience. Like we ended up leaving books for them and they had kids the same ages and like liked one of the other our kids shirts, and so we you know, they swapped things and like it just became something so much more like we just gone to that house, never acknowledged just expected to have our needs met without creating that connection.

But because we did because we allowed whatever maybe this the pose ID barrier or mean, I think some people think they're not supposed to engage that way. We like dismissed that and allowed for this real connection to happen. And, you know, then it also led to us having this driver who was a friend, family, friends who took us to a friend's restaurant, who knew like someone who created this jewelry we were looking for and all of a sudden we're very much having this fabulous, really great experience that if you had stayed up on the surface, and against is probably the same like if you're on the surface, that's all you're gonna get and all of this magic is underneath and so we just need to kind of like be brave enough to kill that Back ourselves and get in there and then allow for that connection to happen. And then this is again, like what we, where we started, where travel really becomes this thing that helps us helps us to open our minds and creates connections, breaks down norms and stereotypes and allows for all these amazing things to happen that are so much greater than the travel experience. And I think is with that container and that connection that you were speaking.

40:32

I think that's right. And I a word that I'd like to pick up on is becoming braver, because that is probably exactly what we need to do. But at the same time, that expression also suggests that we need to be brave, because it's big and scary out there. And it's not. And that's the problem, we've become so sensitive to danger. And like I said, all the news and all the views that are fed to us, and we take it on board, as fact, as opposed to opinion, unless it's science based. It's not fact. It's opinion, right. And it's experience based. And so I think it's completely understandable when you're going to the other side of the world, particularly if you've got a family and you've got young children in tow, of course, you should have concerns, you absolutely have to ask all those questions about how to keep your family safe. And I think it's important, I personally think it's really important to make sure that when we are traveling, and we're being a bit more adventurous, which I would love more people to be including my ourselves here in my household, it's to book a destination, while speaking to someone who knows the destination.

And if you're not speaking to an agent who has experienced it, who loves doing that off the beaten track stuff, and is on the same page as you about what luxury level you want, if you're not speaking to them, and you can't speak to the owner, everyone who comes to Canada house talks to me, even if they've come to a travel travel agent, there is not one person who stays in in that place, without speaking to me because I want to make sure that they have the experience. And that is the way to enable guests and travel travelers to feel comfortable. Yes, you've got young children, these are the things that you can do really, really safely. And you're going to have a brilliant time, because you're going to be talking to people and experience and like you say getting under those layers. And we're going to keep you safe. There are obviously places in any any country, including Sri Lanka, that you shouldn't go to, I wouldn't go to and that, you know, those are things. So it's kind of making sure that we can sort of be slightly curated within when we go out but to be on holiday, but at the same time to then be empowered to have those experiences and start to realize that oh, it's actually really not that scary at all. You know, in fact, I can be braver you know, it's just an interesting point. I think it's it's interesting how language can really change one's perception. What song the other side of the world?

Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:14

Yeah, and I mean, I hear that often when I travel by myself, or travel Amina, I guess most often off the beaten path when I travel. And that's something I get asked all the time. And yet, I mean, there's probably been, I can't even think of a handful of times where I maybe actually felt that I was truly, you know, unsafe for something could have happened, and maybe something maybe it was out of my awareness. But for the most part, it's just that kind of what we were saying, like there's these norms or expectations, or these things that that we have created to kind of keep ourselves safe, but they're just this false sense of security or this false. There's nothing true, there's nothing true to that, that sense of safety and security and, and really, when we like step away from that is that we become invited as members of communities and families and that's where we feel very safe.

I had again in Bali had a driver who really wanted me to see the sunset at this certain spot. I was on my way to the airport, but I had probably from when he picked me up till I was meeting to fly out like eight hours. And he was just going to drive me to the airport, because that was what is the range, but then realized I was gonna sit there for like six hours or something ridiculous. And so he's like, Oh, please, may I suggest something. And so he took me to this place to see the sunset. And then as we were driving back and we had all these great conversations on the way there and the way back, someone in his family called and said, You know, I thought you were at the doctor. He's like, No, I met this woman. I was driving her I rescheduled my appointment because I wanted her to have this experience and I was like Are you kidding me? Like, wow, that doesn't happen in the real world, right. But that happens in this real world. And it was such a gift. And again, like just allowing people to have that experience and like my, my guests like regimented mindset is like, Is this okay? Should this man be taking me somewhere, I don't know where we're going. Like all these things that like, I don't know, these alarm bells that would go off in our daily life. None of them were true. Like, this person had the purest of intentions, and in fact, allowed me to have this incredible experience, because I let all of that. Go.

45:42

Yeah, I was gonna say, I wonder how much of that as well was, because if What did you say was at the end of your holiday, so you'd already peeled back a few layers, and perhaps started to feel quite comfortable, and had a chance to sort of tune in, you know, whatever we call it, whether it's gut instinct, or intuition. Every single person has it. And when we have the, when we have the time to slow down? You know, obviously, we have to be careful. And it's not 100%. Well, I don't know, actually, I think your intuition and your gut instinct, you know, if someone is off, right. So, yeah, I think it's, I think it's interesting. I think if we don't do that, then across the world, wherever we stay, we're going to be very limited to having the same experiences as everybody else. It's just like, everyone painting their houses gray. You know, it's like, what's the dancing? Well, the damn thing should be doing your thing, not what someone is telling us we should be doing.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 46:51

Yeah. And I think that's where the challenge lies is worse, we are so used to kind of tuning out that internal voice, like, you know, we start kind of, and this will probably open like a six hour conversation that I'll try to, like, keep it in. But, you know, like tuning out that voice checking boxes, following the paths that are laid out before us. And we forget how to listen to all of those things. And we forget who we are internally. And, you know, for me, this is what travel does allow for me to do is to be like, wait a second, I actually don't enjoy this experience that is packaged and given so frequently, like I really enjoy this experience. And, and it's okay that people like both types of those experience. But what's more important is that you're listening to what you truly enjoy. And if we're gonna invest in ourselves and invest in travel and invest in communities and invest in time with one another, like, we should be doing it from this faith, that is really filling us up. And so I think what I love for people that are listening to here is just, what is that? Ask those questions, dig a little deeper one to like you said at the beginning, what do you want to feel during this experience? What do you want to feel at the end of this experience, like, start from there and then build backwards, like, then find the pieces that get you to that feeling versus we go on vacation and hope we feel a certain way, but we just we just picked this destination? Because everyone's going there without actually asking that question. And maybe we need to craft it from the end results that we're wishing for, and not just the opposite direction, which is really do it.

48:37

I think I would also say that for anyone who's not quite sure how to go about that, because how long is a piece of string? In some ways, I would say, allow some time in your schedule, to have those off paced experiences, you know, just say, right, I just want to do two things. In that two week holiday. I mean, I mean, that's very much, but you could just say I want to do two things in that two week holiday. And I'm going to do the first thing quite soon. Say within three days, I've landed, I've kind of had my sleep, I've had my sangria or gin and tonics or whatever it might be. Now I'm going to go and explore in order to have that feeling. Because once you've had the feeling the chances are, you might want to do it again. And you've still got plenty of time left in your schedule. And then what I would say is however that made you feel don't be afraid to change the plan. Because if your plan is quite structured, and regimented, do not get you've got one life, we've got one life. And if during your two week holiday, which you thought you're going to be doing x y Zed in on day three or four you think actually I feel like doing that thing over there, which is completely not something that we were thinking about doing but God It felt so good or those people really enjoyed it and it was all about going off into the interior and talking to these people seeing the sunset from that spot. Those are the moments if it feels right, and the vibration is there. to follow, you just go and do it, because you will never forget that moment. And I think that's what every holiday actually that's what life should be about. But if that's all we can only get that from our holidays, we should try and cram it in as much as possible.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:15

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Well, before we wrap up our conversation, I want to invite you to share how people can find Calacatta house, how they can book that experience. And then also, I know that you are working on a program that you're just kind of ready to tease a little bit, but I want people to know it's there for them in the future. And then lastly, we'll have a little bit of a rapid fire questions as we end our conversation.

50:46

Oh, wow, rapid fire questions. That sounds really scary. Thank you. So hopefully, you'll be able to share in your podcast notes about kalakand house. So once you found the website, we're based on the southern coast of Sri Lanka, where two hours two and a half hours from Colombo, which is where one lands, it's like going down the end. One, it's a very modern highway system. And then we're, you know, by the beach and where we are. And what we offer is an opportunity for you to have the sort of beach part of your Sri Lanka experience. If you're traveling around, if you have plenty of time you were lucky enough to travel around the whole island. What some people like to do is come have a beach section at the end. But it's not just lying on the beach, we have so many things that we can do, and that people can experience I really encourage our guests, like I said, to go out and touch some skin.

So we talk to everyone who comes to stay and find things that they would be interested in, whether it's cooking in our chef's house, in his garden, and so you know, his family can be coming and going and you can he can take you out to the local market. And you can choose the ingredients with him from the calendar menu, cook it in his garden, or you can go to the local white tea plantation to have a tour, do some tea tasting bison tea, you know, the massages, all of that kind of thing. So equally we can do day trips to elephant Safari, we had one group who came to stay with us for almost three weeks. And I honestly thought that they were going to be bored and they ran out of time. They just did so much stuff. They were really adventurous. You know, they went out on on a fishing trip with our chef caught some fish came back and cooked it at the villa. And so these are the things and they just went off pace. They just did what they wanted to do. They follow their hearts, and they had a really beautiful time. So that's something that I really encourage in terms of the program, something that's very close to my heart is just the idea that women should be more empowered, even in this day and age. And we've come a long way.

But certainly it was something I felt very acutely when I was building. It was unusual to have, the woman is the boss on the site, calling the shots and being quite clear on what she wanted. I mean, it's something I do day in and day out in London, but in Sri Lanka, right. So I became quite aware of the fact I mean, the Build Team that I had were brilliant, there were female project managers, and Sri Lanka in in many places can become important. But in some places, it's a little bit more parochial. And I became aware that as a woman, I had a lot of privileges that a lot of women don't have over there. But then I've noticed that even in the West in London, I'm aware of people who perhaps are feeling a bit disenfranchised, and they could be extremely successful and established in what they're doing. But they feel really disconnected. So bringing those sort of two things together, what I really wanted to do was have add some more meaning to what kalakand house stands for. And I feel like I've been very blessed that there's been some luck and being some live decisions to get me to where I am now.

There's a long way that I still want to go. But I wanted to create a program that would enable women who are feeling disenfranchised, and just what do I want to do with the rest of my life, to explore that in an environment, which is nurturing, but also quite structured in terms of finding a path to understanding what might be whispering away here. And it's something that I've only become really tuned into it in the last decade or so. In fact, the reason I built Calico under house was because something inside me was screaming, go to Sri Lanka since 2012. I've been wanting to go to me for years to get out there. And then I bought some land boom. The rest is history and I feel like wow, I had an opportunity a chance to sit down and act on that not everyone has that but that's just because they don't have the time to sit. So I don't want to give away too much. But essentially, it is a retreat of sorts that will span over a length of time, a few months, where women can come together in small groups, and really explore what it is that they want to achieve, and to help them to do it.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 55:22

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I think that that's something that will really resonate for so many people. And like I said, you know, where we get so good at turning that off, because it seems unimportant, or unnecessary, or whatever. And I've talked to so many women that they're like, you know, this part of them, like, held up the sign and this like, this is what you want. And we're like, no, just put that sign down. And yes, you see the sign again? And you're like, No, would you just quit with that sign already. And then you like, get a little further down the path and you look at you like you finally hear it, or you find it or you you you recognize it and you're like, Okay, I'll see the sign. And then you turn and you like, see all the signs.

They're like, Oh, and but we've just why didn't I do this before? Yeah, we've been conditioned, I think I don't know what that is. But I feel like this comes up. And a lot of times, the women I'm speaking to are, are often the ones that that finally, like you said, you know, went to Sri Lanka, like, listen to the nudge, did the thing. And then and then they got to this next place of being and feeling and seeing and awareness and, and I think often and I'm grateful for you in doing this as well, then we turn around and we're like, Wait, who is standing there behind me that still not looking at this or seeing this or hearing this and I want them to feel it too, right? We don't want this for our own selves, we want it for everyone in our periphery and everyone in general. And so thank you for I'm excited to hear as this continues to unfold. So thank you. So to end, I have seven questions. And these are really just to allow listeners to get to know you a little bit more and to know you as a traveler and what inspires you. So what is your favorite book, or perhaps a movie that offers you a travel escape or inspires you to adventure?