Episode 64- Norie Quintos, Norie Quintos Media and Consulting

Travel

Feb. 16

Old travel was to escape the world and new travel should be to engage in the world. In this pandemic, we're really seeing the issues facing the planet, people and travel is one way that we can use to address this.

Looking at the future of travel, since the beginning of the pandemic, a lot of focus is on the way travel creates a negative impact, with carbon emissions, over-tourism, bucket list travel.

We've seen all of these things floating around. And we've also been fortunate enough to see that since these issues have come to light, there's been a lot of innovation and collaboration in the industry, creating more responsible travel experiences, and organizations really coming together to support this.

What have you seen that really gives you hope for the future of travel?

Today’s conversation is with someone who is a true inspiration in the travel industry. This conversation really shows us how the meaningful experiences we have when we travel and connect to culture, environment and animals inspire us to give back.

Christine’s guest is someone who truly inspires her with her focus on indigenous tourism, regenerative travel in the space of travel, as well as the focus on transformational travel.

Christine really resonated with what today’s guest shares and Christine is happy to have this guest in her hemisphere since they crossed paths.

Norie Quintos is a consultant for the travel industry on communications strategy, media relations, custom content, and messaging. She helps destinations and travel companies find and tell their stories through communications audits, seminars and training, coaching, and print and pixel projects.

An award-winning journalist, she is a contributing editor to National Geographic Travel Media. Noire has spoken and presented at conferences including the Adventure Travel World Summit, the New York Times Travel Show, International Media Marketplace, the International Indigenous Tourism Conference, and the World Bank World Tourism Day Forum.

Her interest areas are cultural tourism, indigenous tourism, regenerative tourism, diversity/equity/inclusion in travel, and transformational travel.

She is a member of the Board of Directors of the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund and an advisor to Adventure Media, the Transformational Travel Council, Impact Travel Alliance, and the social enterprise startup Giving Way. She is the former executive editor of National Geographic Traveler and was an editor at U.S. News and World Report and Caribbean Travel and Life.

We talk about the future of travel, our responsibility as travel content creators to tell a more complete story and slow travel and slow living and why they are important to finding balance and creating space in our lives. Join Christine for her soulful conversation with Norie Quintos.

In this episode, Christine and Norie discuss:

Norie’s story and how she found travel
What is the future of travel?
Why responsibility as travel content creators is to tell a more complete story
What is slow travel and why it matters to destinations & travelers
How to use travel as a place to create peace
Finding a sense of belonging in travel
The beauty of finding a travel brand that supports impactful causes and empowerment

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

Learn more about Noire Quintos and Norie Quintos Media and Consulting at https://www.noriequintos.com/

Follow Noire Quintos on your favorite social platform Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn

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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Norie Quintos (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

travel, tourism, destination, people, community, world, story, industry, connect, conversation, trip, travelers, life, adventure, belonging

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul Of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul Of Travel.

Norie Quintos is a consultant for the travel industry on communication strategy, media relations, custom content and messaging. She helps destinations and travel companies find and tell their stories, and as an award winning journalist she is a contributing editor to National Geographic travel media. She has spoken and presented at conferences including the adventure travel World Summit, the New York Times travel show, international media marketplace and the International indigenous Tourism Conference, as well as World Bank World Tourism Day forum. Her interests lie in cultural, indigenous and regenerative tourism, as well as diversity equity inclusion and travel and transformational travel.

She is also a member of the Board of Directors of the adventure travel Conservation Fund, and an advisor to AdVenture Media, the transformational travel Council impact travel Alliance and the social enterprise startups give way. She is a former executive editor of National Geographic Traveler, and was an editor at the US News and World Report and Caribbean travel in life. I am so grateful for this conversation with someone who is a true inspiration in this industry, and really shows us how those meaningful experiences when we travel and connect to culture, environment and animals inspire us to give back. We talk about the future of travel, our responsibility as travel content creators to tell a more complete story and slow travel and slow living and why they are important to finding balance and creating space in our lives. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Norie Quintos. Welcome to the Soul of Travel.

I am so happy today to be joined by Norie Quintos. And she is a consultant for the travel industry helping destinations and brands tell their stories and also an award winning journalist. And in general, someone who really inspires me with your focus on indigenous tourism regenerative travel in the space of travel, as well as the focus on transformational travel, which is where we connected feels like eons ago at this moment. But I knew we happen to both be participating in a kind of a support circle at that point within the transformational travel community. And I really resonated with what you shared and just happened to be grateful to have you in my hemisphere since then. And so welcome to solo travel and so happy to get to share your story today.

04:20

Thank you so much, Christine. I bet those things like quite a while ago, but it really was only a year or two ago, I think

Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:26

Yes, I no longer have any context for time. But it's been so good to have communities like that forming over the past two years because I think they have really amplified the positive traits and characteristics of this industry and really shown us what can happen when we come together. And I think that's one of the things that have been kind of the beauty of this period of time. And I think that's something that we'll end up talking about later on in our conversation but as we get started Norie, I would just love to give you the opportunity to introduce yourself, tell our travelers or our travelers, I'm ready to travel I know a little bit about your background and who you are in the space of travel.

05:15

Sure. Thank you so much, Christine. First of all, again, thank you so much for inviting me. I know it's been, you know, we've been talking about doing this. And so I'm very excited that it's finally happening. Very briefly, I'm a travel journalist, I'm an editor and a, I'm a Communications Consultant. Much of my career has been spent at National Geographic, most of it as executive editor of Traveler magazine. But these days, I am more of a contributing editor, I write stories, I edit books, I do special projects, mostly for Nat Geo, but also for other other outlets as well. And for the last six years, I have been a communications consultant.

I started my own business about six years ago. And I help raise the profile and tell the stories for destinations and other travel companies. I have also recently been leaning into my work more as a volunteer, using my privileged position in this industry that I love so much as an advisor or as a board member to organizations like the adventure travel Conservation Fund, which I hope we'll talk about a little bit later, also to giveaway which was a social enterprise that connects nonprofits, with donors and volunteers based in Israel, and transformational travel Council, which I know you've been involved in, and so on, says have several of your guests. So I think that gives you an idea of the kinds of the areas of travel that I'm particularly passionate about. And I know as I mentioned earlier, I foster dogs for a local rescue and my 19th Dog Margo is currently hoping to get her adopted by the end of this week, I bribed her with a chili toy. So hopefully she'll be quiet for us today.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 07:08

Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing all of that. I think there's so many parts of the tourism industry that we have both been drawn to in our career and have a very similar outlook. And I think maybe an outlook that we've had before the perspective of responsible or sustainable travel or community based tourism. Before all those categories existed, I think that was both places that we have been naturally drawn to. But I think it's definitely been great over the last 10 or 15 years, where there's been more focus, and certainly over the last two years in those areas to really get to spend time bringing attention to that. So that's what I would like to spend our time talking about today, those areas where our passions intersect. And you mentioned earlier that we have been trying to make this happen for a while. And we were going to talk in November, but you had the amazing opportunity to travel to Colombia with tourism care's, which is another organization that I think we both really feel excited about the work that they're doing. I would love for you to kind of begin our conversation talking about that experience. And we can kind of use that as a way to share with our listeners some of these ideas of slow travel, community based travel and what that really looks like in action. So maybe you could begin with some of the experiences that were really memorable or inspiring.

08:35

Yeah, thanks for that. So yes, back in November, I went on a trip to Colombia specifically to meet again, with tourism care's which is an organization that is also based in the travel industry giving back to the destinations. And what was amazing about that trip is that it was really focused on community tourism, which is community based tourism, which is, you know, we throw around these words a lot. So what is community tourism? And that can be a complicated answer. But essentially, the quickest way to think about it is tourism. That involves the community that the community is a complete partner with. And that essentially leads your money as much of the money that tourists spend with the local communities. So there are many faces to that, obviously. But one example that I thought really was stark in my mind is I met somebody named Diego Calderon, who was a birder and a birding guide.

And about 20 or 30 years ago, he was kidnapped for about three months by the FARC guerrillas in Colombia. And he was luck, luckily, released and today he does, birding tours and guiding tours in some of those very communities where he same community area where he was held working with gorillas X gorillas from those communities who are now with lay down their arms and are now using picked up by narc killers, and are now using their skills, their nature skills that they weren't that whole, they were home just from living in the, in the forest, to helping travelers find these amazing birds, Columbia is a is a like a highway for a lot of these migrating birds. So there are hundreds of endemic and non endemic species of birds. And so burning is quite big there. And, you know, to be confronted with that amazing possibility that, you know, the possibility of what travel can do is really, you know, was really a kind of start for me that it can help to heal societies that were, you know, have been riven by violence for for decades. And that's just one way that community tourism can work. And so that was something that was really quite interesting to me.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 11:10

Yeah, I feel like when I travel, I always end up always finding an organization like that. And I think, because when you connect with a community based organization, it really does tell you this other story to a destination that we don't always get, when we are kind of seeking the, you know, highlight reel, or you know, the things that we think we went for the flashier moments or things like that, you end up finding the other parts. And then for me, that became more intentional, where like, I kind of never worried about what you're supposed to be seeing in a destination. And I went to see what the destination was going to share with me. And I think that's when you meet people like the person that you just mentioned. And then you learn about these organizations, you learn about the history in a different context than you normally would have. And so I think that also kind of brings us a little bit into slow travel and why that matters. Because I think, before we got on to speak today, I was thinking about, you know, what we think travel is, and kind of what we think, or what it really can be, and I, I'm going to play with that in my mind for a moment. But we might dive into that later. But when you are traveling slowly, what does that allow travel to become? And why does that matter? Both to travelers and to a destination?

12:40

Yeah, well, first of all, you know, a little bit about my background, because the slow travel kind of comes to meet quite naturally, I grew up bicultural. My first flight was a transatlantic flight from New York to Manila, when I was six months old, on the iconic Panem jet. And by two and a half, I've made that trip three times. And so that was what can be the start of a love affair with cultures and languages and travel. And having spent part of my childhood in the Philippines and also my later childhood in Washington, DC, you know, I came to see myself more as a citizen of the world, rather than belonging to any one culture. So this idea of slow travel, for me is really just a natural extension of living abroad and living in different places and kind of having these different personas and slow travel is, for me, it's really a pivot to meaning we really can't afford to travel fast anymore. I mean, with this pandemic, I think it's highlighted. So much of what's going on, and what's important and, you know, slow travel, you don't give up anything by slowing down your travels. In fact, you gain so much more, you know, it's so much, it's so much deeper, traveling slowly. And essentially, it's as simple as traveling less, but spending more time in a destination. And you know, what's amazing about it is it just opens you up and as somebody who is on a slow road to fluency to Spanish fluency. And so it's really great when you're learning a language to slow things down and embed yourself in one place.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 14:29

I don't want to step away from this conversation for too long. But have you heard Soul of Travel has been nominated for a Bessie award in the wonderful award category as a brand that has gone above and beyond to support, empower and represent women in 2021. As a listener, you know that I am deeply committed to amplifying the voices of women in the travel community and it is such an honor to be nominated.

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That kind of reminded me of you mentioning that, you know, this came out of how you were raised and how you initially engaged in the world. So I'm imagining that when you're traveling like that, you're probably visiting family or you're spending time, a little bit more time when you're traveling as well. So you just learned how to be somewhere without needing to be there doesn't doesn't have to be an outcome, again, like you're not trying to check a box, you're just open to the possibilities of being there. And this just reminded me of a quote that I read, that you wrote, actually, while I was researching for this, about how old travel was to escape the world, and new travel should be to engage in the world. And I think that through this pandemic, we're really seeing, you know, the issues facing the planet facing people and travel is one way that we can use to address this.

And so I think a good segue would be to looking at the future of travel, I think we both have seen since the beginning of the pandemic, a lot of focus on the way that travel creates a negative impact, with carbon emissions, overtourism, bucketlist, travel, like we've seen all of these things kind of floating around. And then I think what we've also been fortunate enough to see is that as these issues have come to light, there's been a lot of innovation and collaboration in the industry, creating more responsible travel experiences, and organizations really coming together to support this. And I'm just wondering for you, what have you seen coming out of this time that really gives you hope, for the future of travel, and for this way of engaging with the world?

17:10

Yeah, so I'm a journalist, and I'm a generalist at that. So I, I leave it to the experts who are way smarter than me to do the thinking and the coming up with, you know, innovative practices, and all of that, you know, what I get is the front row seat to, you know, watching the evolution of that, and I get to interview these amazing people and listen to them and try to help distill some of that amazing information. So that it's, you know, it's something that anybody can understand.

So again, I'm not an expert, but I do feel like having had a front row seat to the evolution of sustainable tourism, really, from the beginning, being really quite fringy, to now being talked about at the highest levels of society. It's progress. Now, it's not enough progress. Obviously, we're not going fast enough, we're not nearly going far enough. But it is progress that I'm proud to have witnessed. And, you know, there's this interesting idea sometimes that sustainable travel is more expensive, or it's somehow left to certain types of people to do sustainable travel. And, you know, I think the reality is that we've come to we, you know, we've grown up thinking of travel, as, you know, airfare food and, and Hotel and Lodging, but really, there's so much more to travel than that. And that's what we pay for, right. But really, there's so much more value to travel that we have been in many ways ignored.

There's the character of a city, there's the quality of a beach, there's a view, an uninterrupted view, all of those have value. And in general, we have not been paying the full value of the full cost of a true travel experience. So sustainable travel tries to address a little bit more of that. And so it's not that sustainable travel is more expensive, per se, it's that traditional travel has not really been adequately capturing the true cost of what a trip is. And I think changing that perspective a little bit, I think allows travelers to be like, Okay, well, let me pay the full cost of what, what it is what something is, and so when you think of it that way, maybe you'll travel a little bit less, maybe you can't afford to take as many trips as you would like, but it gets back to slow travel, you're traveling more deeply, you're connecting with the people more and you are leaving a positive impact on a destination which we all want to do.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 19:49

Yeah. And that really actually leads me so perfectly to what I was thinking about this morning is knowing I was speaking to you and that you do write about travel and you help people tell the story of travel, I kind of started thinking about tourism, or how travelers maybe engage with media. And that if we're buying for instance shoes or a car or something, we know we're being sold something, right. And we know when we see a commercial, that it's telling us all of the shiny things about the shoes or the car. But we also know there's other parts to it, because we kind of have this different sense of understanding of production, and you know, all these other things, miles per gallon for gas, that they're not going to tell us if it's not good or whatever.

But when we look at travel, I don't think consumers approach it the same way when they pick up National Geographic and they read an article, or they see a one page ad, like, they just think they're seeing everything, right, they maybe don't understand that you are or any writer or business is telling a story. And I think for a long time, that story has been one of you know, again, going back to your comment, the travel was about escape, and it was about like, maybe this glamour or relaxation or these moments, but it didn't always tell the full story. And so what I would love to talk to you about is what is the responsibility that media has to tell a different story? And why is that important? What does that again, kind of how does that add to this balance between tourist and destination? I guess.

21:41

Yeah. And the truth is, travel still wonders all those wonderful things that you mentioned. So it's not to change any of that, but it's really to add more context and to, you know, connect to kind of our, our real lives and to gauge again, again, to engage, you know, not merely to, to escape. But you know, we know, everybody knows that the planet is in crisis, and that travel has been implicated in that, you know, our industry, the travel industry contributes between eight to 11% of global carbon emissions. And we know that the way we have been traveling is unsustainable. In the long run, you know, I've spent my career in travel journalism and travel media. And so I'm speaking kind of from that perspective, and, and speaking to, to those of us who are in travel media, whether we are writers, photographers, influencers, you know, all sorts of content creators, it applies to travelers as well, but it's especially kind of geared at travel media, because we're the ones who have raised the profile. So some of these destinations we write about. So, you know, for years, we've been focused on the lighter side of travel, you know, the evocative side of travel because, you know, that's more fun, right, it's more fun to be in, in that space.

But we are at the moment right now. And I, we can no longer leave it to the news reporters, or the environment writers to do the hard work, we all need to do it. And you know, so it's, you know, we need to not only travel responsibly, but to write responsibly as well. And I wrote a piece for World nomads, actually titled something like that, why responsible travel or writing is as vital as responsible travel, and some of the things that I talked about, you know, and they're essentially, you know, tips and things to keep in mind. But one is to choose carefully, you know, we are raising the profile of companies and destinations that we write about. So, let's not just write about anybody, you know, even if we were writing about great restaurants in Paris, you know, that sounds like, you know, okay, what are the great restaurants in Paris? Easy, right? But add a secondary filter, you know, what are the great and sustainable, you know, make sure they're sustainable, too. And, you know, whether or not your editor asked for that, you know, add it, you know, to every piece of writing that you do to everything that you cover, just add that secondary filter and make that, you know, a natural part of it, because, again, we're raising the profile of companies. So we, you know, we have a say in that. And then the second big thing is to, you know, give context to the issues and challenges with surrounding travel. You know, if we're writing about whatever we're writing about, say it's the Galapagos.

So, of course, we're going to mention the amazing wildlife that are, you know, all over this, this wonderful set of islands. But let's not mention that without also drawing attention for the readers on or the listeners as well, about the plastic pollution that washes on on the shores and the changing temperature of the water that really alters the landscape and remains the escape of this incredibly vital and unique set of islands. So make those connections for the reader reader, make them clear and also make clear that their actions, not just where they are, you know, that's important to be, you know, their best practices on the islands, but that the actions that they have at home can have reverberations and ripple effects positive or negative to what they're seeing in, in these destinations. And finally, I think the one other thing I mentioned is to model good behavior, you know, are you on social media? Yes, of course you are. If you're, if you're any sort of content creator, it's just part of life these days? And what are your photos saying?

What are your images saying, without you ever saying anything, and I see still too many images of so called influencers and content creators, and they're cradling wild animals, they're sipping smoothies with plastic straws, they're taking selfies with potentially vulnerable local children, you know, without context or explanation, maybe there's a good explanation for why that is, but it's not if it's not sad, then, you know, it's not a positive thing. So please model good behavior, because people, you know, especially if your influencers were influencing people, you know, people are watching and copying our behaviors. So at least let's make sure that they're copying good behavior.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 26:34

Thank you so much for walking us through some of those things. And I think what really comes to my mind is kind of where you started. If you're, if you're writing a story about Columbia, and maybe your editor wants you to focus on nature or wildlife, and you end up on birding, it's really easy, then to also add the story of that group. And that, like you said, gives you one other layer. And actually, for me, I'm going to be more drawn to the area because of that, because now I feel like I have a more personal connection, like, just hearing about amazing opportunities to see, you know, birds in this habitat is great, but like, I really want to know more like I really want that extra layer as a human. And I think it's really using travel to showcase the interconnectivity between humans and nature and between all destinations.

And I just think that it's a really, really fun time to be a part of the industry, because we are getting to kind of play in all of these different spaces and think about how we can make an impact. And we don't have to be as subtle with that layering as we maybe had to be in the past. Because I think people like you. And I have always been wanting to do that or have been doing it. But it has had to be a little bit more discreet. And now I think I'm sure that you're probably seeing this too, that travelers and readers are asking for that kind of content, they're also being really drawn to it, because it does also make them feel connected. And it activates this sense of belonging. And you and I when we met before, we talked a little bit about how we can heal through tourism and how we can create peace through tourism. And I think that this is kind of in alignment with, you know, where this conversation is at right now. But how do you see travel playing a role in those aspects, especially coming, hopefully, coming to an end of this pandemic? Like how can we use travel as a place to heal and to create peace?

28:50

Yeah, I know that, you know, I've been hearing a lot about, there's often this question, you know, how, how to make travel more sustainable, how, you know, there's, there's always that kind of incremental changes. But in one of the pieces that I wrote, I talked to Jeremy Sampson, who was founded after as a valid I can't remember. So apologies, your major listening, I'll get it right later. But what he said to me, he said something to me, that really kind of makes sense. And he said, you know, we need to start thinking about how we ask the question that way, you know, how can tourism be more sustainable, but instead, looking at it as how can tourism be a tool used as a tool to solve the world's biggest problems?

And when you think about it that way, all of a sudden, it opens up so many things and so can using tourism as a tool and the earlier example that I gave you with the birding in Colombia, you know, that is a way of stitching together and healing kind of communities that have been broken by years of civil war from going back to Colombia, because that really was the last place that I, I visited in a couple of years. But there are also these communities that were old, you know, areas where there was a lot of violence, and still a lot of poverty. And there are ways that visitors can visit and take part in Tours led by community members, so you walk through those streets and your wisdom and you eat at restaurants that were started by single mothers who are now entrepreneurs.

And that is a way of addressing some of these, these these social ills, the conservation economy in Africa, were using, using tourism dollars to fund you know, anti poaching units, or communities that ended up, you know, helping and, and becoming guides, as opposed to become, you know, being poachers. For their livelihoods. I mean, these are ways and there's so many different ways that tourism can be a tool used as a tool. And I think when we look at it that way, as opposed to just this incremental change, oh, how can we make tourism a little more sustainable, you know, we can solve some really, really big problems. And that's really quite exciting, actually, to be a part of that. And it doesn't mean that your travel isn't interesting, or it's still relaxing, it's still connecting, it's still, you're still eating great food, you're doing everything that you that we all look for, in when we travel. But in fact, you're doing it more and better and deeper. And so it's really a win win. Yeah,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:48

I agree. And I just, I think, for me, part of my personal mission in travel is for helping women know their value in their communities and looking at gender equity. And when you think about those topics in the context of travel, maybe you can feel weighted or heavy, and like you said, you know, maybe you think you're not going to still have this amazing vacation or this experience. But then I've seen as I bring communities of women together, travelers connecting with local social impact projects, that time they spend together is so healing for both parties, for the local communities for maybe their artists and crafts to be witnessed and valued. And then the women, you know, to see that, like, there's such a powerful exchange that happens, that that does begin to heal, you know, for both parties, and also just creates this deep connection to a destination. And then when you're looking at things like you know, any of these other social issues, when you have that connection to the destination at that level, then that is going to ripple out into conservation and looking at how we can be more responsible.

And it means more to us. And so I think that amplifies this other greatness that travel can bring to the world. And so I also get really excited about it. I feel like there are endless opportunities for using travel as this greater vehicle for things. I did just want to mention, I looked up Jeremy's information, because I also know how the foundation I can think of it it's the Travel Family Foundation. Yes. And he's also the chair of the future for the Tourism Coalition, which is another type of organization that I think we've seen come out of this time where community members who were professionals have been saying, what else can we do? And I have loved that this has meant like not can we do what can we do alone? But what can we do together? And so bringing all of these organizations together to examine how we can show up differently. And I know you've been a part of that. You mentioned you've been sitting on a few boards and you also mentioned the adventure travel Conservation Fund. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that aspect of travel and and what that adds to deepening this kind of purpose and, and what we can do with travel?

34:30

Yeah, you know, for me, one way of dealing with so many of the changes around the world that are happening that are out of my control, you know, there's this pandemic kind of assault on democracy all over the world there. There are huge things happening and I know good people are working on it and I'm doing my small bit. But what's been really helpful for me is to actually dive in a little bit in the areas where I know I can make a Little bit of a bigger difference. And, you know, it's for me, it's a way to, you know, not just keep my sanity, but actually, to keep me engaged and actually really quite hopeful about the future. And so, you know, I'm really excited to be involved in some of these, these great organizations, you know, recently, like about 300, or more travel companies, tourism boards and destinations. And me and little old me signed the Glasgow declaration of a mouthful, the Glasgow Declaration on climate, action and tourism. And, you know, it's, it's the first commitment from the travel industry to cut carbon carbon emissions in half by 2030. And reach net zero by 2050. Now, there's a lot of issues with that, obviously, you know, people are saying, you know, it's just, is it enough? Is it just a kind of mumbo jumbo? You know, I'm not going to wade into that.

But, you know, I can say that, it's nice to see the industry, as well as full, such as you and me, come together to participate in that. And it's really important to remember, you know, places give us so much, you know, what is it that we give places in return? So it's kind of like, what can we give back to travel. So besides signing, that declaration, and the tourism declares, which is a similar declaration, I've also joined 1% for the planet, which commits me to, to donating at least 1% of my salary, to environmental causes, and you know, when can join as an individual and when can join as a company. And it's really quiet, you know, I just feel it's wonderful to feel part of that, that growing commitment. And it's also the reason why I am leaning into my volunteer work at the Adventure travel Conservation Fund, which is a small nonprofit, we give small donations, while small grant project grants of about, you know, under $10,000, each, to about five worthy projects throughout the world. And it's, you know, I call it kind of small, it's small, but they get packed. So small projects and big impact. And these, this has ripple effects all over. And so I'm really excited to be committed to this endeavor.

And I encourage anybody in the industry, who wants to participate in either this, or in some of the other causes that I'm that you and I are involved in, it's really a way to feel hopeful, and to be doing something and to actually, to actually make a difference, because it's sometimes hard to feel like you're making a difference, when problems are seemingly so big. But if you break them down, if you take a part of it's, I think we can do it. I think Desmond Tutu, who unfortunately just died, said something like, you know, it's these little bits of good that we do that combined together, I'm, again, messing up his quote, but that combined together make, you know, kind of overwhelmed, overwhelmed the world world with good, so you know, invite everybody to do their little bit of good, you know, everywhere.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 38:21

Yeah, thank you. It's such a good reminder, because I think often, as individuals or as small businesses, we think that we don't have the heft to create change. And so again, you we might step back, because we think that it's not as valuable, but I'd love for example, the 1% for the planet that you mentioned, because if you add my 1%, to your 1%, to a larger companies, 1%, like we're getting there, right? It doesn't have to be all about it being this huge contribution, it just is the collective and the work that that can do together. And so I think not being steered away from not thinking you're doing enough and therefore doing nothing. And this reminded me to when when we connected earlier, we were talking about, like, what is this rethink that we can have both professionally and personally, and what is something we can do to make us feel empowered, and you had mentioned that you started composting, and that this was kind of your like, big rethink, and your reframe and like this one action step, but I think it's really powerful to have experiences like that. And I don't know if you would mind sharing that story, but I think it's just a good example of how we can just take like one step forward without being afraid of all of the other steps around us.

39:47

Yeah, no, it is. I think there's so many things that we can do. So a lot of people a lot of my friends have been composting, but they either have big backyards, or they you know, but for whatever reason I was having trouble Getting myself to do that because I live in a small townhouse and busy and all of that, until I discovered recently, this whole concept of composting in a cardboard box. So there's a New York Times article all about it. But the idea is you essentially have a box of soil. Now, it's got certain percentages of things in order that you need. So it's pretty simple. Once you get it set up, you get this box of soil, you keep it under your sofa, or under your dining table, it's in my it's in the corner of my kitchen. And essentially, you kind of always, you know, all your leftover veggies and things like that, stick it in, and you just kind of it's really quite almost meditative. Actually. You just turn the soil over. And pristine it is, it is like magic, I don't know where all the stuff goes. But it just, you know, within a couple of weeks, it's making new soil and then you can just dump it out, you know, or put it in your potted plants or give it away or just just throw it outside. And you're you know, you're I've got a little small backyard. So I just threw it out there. But it is, it's, it's amazing.

And once I started doing it I thought, Gosh, it's really not that hard. And so I think there's so many things that we think can be so much more difficult. But once we, you know, we pay attention to them, we can do that. And it's one thing I think, too, that the pandemic has given me, it's given me a little bit more of the space and opportunity and time to take on some of these things that seem so difficult. And one thing I wanted to get back a little bit to our covered part of our conversation earlier about the good that we can do, I wanted to remind people that you know, we can do good, just from the trips that we take to remember, your travel dollars are a way to reward businesses doing well, doing the right thing, you know, so it's, it's unlike other industries, you know, as a traveler, you have enormous influence with your travel dollars. And a typical trip is about between 2005 $1,000, you know, for like a week to two weeks. And where you put that money really makes a big difference, whether it's this operator or that operator, or this destination or that destination, so just your trip alone, that you're going to spend any way is a way to do good with what you have.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 42:29

Yeah, that is such a powerful point. And again, seeing what people have started to create during this time. And now these trips are even more available and seeing people with, you know, focuses on connecting with social impact projects, conservation work, limiting their greenhouse gases, like there are people that are very transparent about what they're offering. And I think consumers can shop with their values, like you said, like what is really important to you: find the travel brand that is aligned with that support them because you know, then that work is rippling out. But you're also probably going to have a great experience because you know that you are not only supporting that, but you're probably going to be engaged in some element of that along the way. And there's like, again, probably endless opportunities. Like if you're interested in surfing and water and reef conservation, or, you know, like whatever speaks to you look for that and ask of it out of your travel experience, because you probably can find it now I think somebody is speaking to every person out there, if you look for it, and I also think that's brilliant because it's just creating some really exciting travel experiences and opportunities to for travelers. I was also thinking as you were sharing about the reward or the kind of result of your composting. A few years ago, I had decided that we weren't going to use straws in our house anymore. And I have three little kids, three young daughters younger than Strawser everything right?

Like they physically feel like they can't drink out of anything without a straw. And so I was like we're not ordering them. You know, when we get a drink at a restaurant, I have straws in my purse. And at first, you know, they thought that my mom was crazy. I don't understand why we're doing this. And then I remember after we'd been doing it for like six months or something and had my refillable coffee cup and they're like, Do you want a straw for that? And my one daughter was like, why would she want a straw for that? I can't believe you asked her. And it was just really funny because she went from impossible to like, No way. Why would you do that in a very short period of time? And then also them having the understanding of why we created that shift, like going through this journey of it. Can't do it so it's really so easy that it's blasphemous that you would do anything else. And even like, finally we were doing something else. And my daughter wanted to eat something. And she was like, Oh, I wish I had a fork right now. I wish we had our traveling chopsticks. And it's like, the things you heard them say that you would have never imagined you would hear them, say it a million years. And it's a part of our normal way of being. So I think just inviting listeners to get also playful with that, like, what is a small action that maybe seems impossible that you really could take on? Like, what is something you read about that you were curious about, but felt resistance to, and maybe you can pull that into your life and see what happens?

45:45

You know, I love it. And, gosh, it's those little transformative moments and the moments, it's like shifting perspectives and paradigms that are so they seem so small, but yet, they're so powerful, you know, I'm reminded by, I heard a podcast from an astronomer once, and I kind of just stayed with me. And then I went to Chile, and, and kind of put it into practice, and had one of those moments. But in the podcast, this astronomer was talking about how we tend to think of outer space as, you know, far above us, and really quite separate. And, you know, he says that we test and it's made worse by the fact that the way we you know, we tend to look at space, we stand up and you look up, right, and that's okay, there's space, and he said, you know, spaces all around us, you know, we are a planet within space. And so he suggested that the better way to look at the night sky was rather than look up was to, to lie down on the ground and imagine yourself, you know, you're on the ground, imagine yourself taking a step into space, because space is related as just now, of course, you can't do that, because we've got gravity, right. But if you could, you'd be stepping right into, you'd be stepping away from the earth and right into space.

And it's all around you. And when I was on a trip to the Atacama Desert in Chile, with a small group of people, it was one of those dark cloudless nights, you know, no moon, no clouds, like billions and billions of stars. And I shared the insight with this small group that I was with, and we all lay down on the ground. And, you know, I explained what the astronomer said. And so we just kind of imagined ourselves there, you know, kind of lying, but standing kind of, almost as if you're standing and then taking a step that you can't take into space. And it was that shift of perspective, just that simple shift of perspective kind of changed everything and how you view your world, our planet, you know, and again, this little thin atmosphere, this is gravity that's holding us back, but it just, we just felt so connected with the world around us and the space around us. And just felt like such a part of this whole incredible universe that we live in. So I love those moments and travel. That's one thing I love about travel, because travel enhances and facilitates those kinds of paradigm shifts.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 48:36

Yeah, cuz you're really open to exploring an exercise like that. And you know, if you're in your daily life, and someone's like, oh, I listened to this podcast, and I heard this thing about the stars, you want to lay down and try that you're gonna like, I don't have time for that. Or right. Oh, like, I'm, I'm really disconnected from that idea. I know, or you're like, yeah, maybe I'll try that later. And you never do. But in this moment, where you feel like you have the time and space to explore when you're traveling, and then you step into that, and then you get even more out of it, which I think really is just kind of that constant theme of this conversation is just being open to what traveled with you and open to the possibilities of what travel and mindful travel or however, whatever you want to say, can bring to you and then how that will expand.

49:35

Yeah, no, that's so true. As an editor, I look for yarns that go beyond the realm of, you know, go beyond the place to the realm of the universal. That's what makes a good story. So in other words, if I'm looking for a story, tell me a story that's not just about you in one spot, but about all of us everywhere. And I think that's a, you know, you don't have to be a writer to kind of appreciate that and you can just Be a traveler because travel even though we're in one place in one spot, at a certain point in time, it's really not just about that one spot and that spot in that place in time, right?

It's really about everything you know, because you meet people when you travel, you meet people that are so different yet. So the same and that's what kind of sparks these kind of eureka moments of universality, that's what that's what that connection is when we talk about connection and travel, it's often that it's this Gosh, you are so different things are so different here. But there's a chord that is universal, and the same, you know, I remember I had an assignment, writing the cover story for a NAT, Nat Geo travel magazine about and the assignment was a story about vamps, Alberta in Canada. And my reporting time was short, and I had a long list of things that I needed to do and see and people to talk to. So I was kind of in this like, Okay, I gotta do this, this, this, I only have this much time and on the on my list was to see a bear, preferably a grizzly bear, because that was, you know, it's big in Canada, it's big in Alberta. And so I felt I needed it for my story, which I had already pretty much half written in my head. But try as I might, I did not, couldn't get to see one while I was there. And I talked to my god I was you know, and that's that's wildlife, right.

That's, that's nature. That's, that's, that happens. And so I didn't get to see one. And when I got down to writing, I was writing and I kept thinking, Oh, wouldn't it have been great to see the bear, then I could have talked about it, because this is where it fit in my story. And I just kept struggling with a piece until it dawned on me that not finding the bear could actually be the central metaphor for the story. And that it actually made for a better story that I didn't that I didn't see the bear. And it was more universal, because how often do we get what we want all the time, right? I mean, life is actually full of, you know, disappointments and, and resilience coming from that. And so, the story ended up actually being a much better story, because I didn't find the bear. And that actually made its way into my piece. And so for me, I think about that. And, you know, the lesson in both life and in writing is that you know, that we shouldn't try to force it and the story will unfold, the trip will unfold, the things that are supposed to happen, will unfold. And that's what's wonderful about travel if we allow ourselves to do that, because I think too often we try to program our travels so much that we forget to just let it, you know, let travel happen to us.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:02

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think that's a really valuable lesson. Because I think we often set out with a lot of expectations around our travel. And the disappointment can become the thing you take away from the trip and what a shame because you've had all these other experiences. And then to like to think about what did the absence of this moment actually mean for the trip? Like if you'd seen the bear on the first day, you kind of would have been done right? Right, like not seeing it, you still had all this time and space to keep looking. And you know, whether you saw it or not, it was this kind of looking process that maybe was really important about the journey. And so again, I think just that openness, and I was also thinking when you're talking about this, universal, this and this moment of belonging that we find in travel, I was reminded of those moments when you find a deep sense of belonging somewhere where you think you would least expect it, where you're amongst a group of people, where you don't speak the language or when you're deeply immersed in a culture where you are out of your comfort zone if you're traveling somewhere remote, and there is nothing that you can really relate to or connect to from your own life.

But then you find yourself pausing, sitting face to face with someone and communicating in a nonverbal way. And then feeling that deep connection, and then you all of a sudden feel the sense of home and belonging and then think in that moment. Also you realize much like the stars, how deeply connected we all are. And when you get to have that moment Um, like, for me, that's what I want everyone to have when they travel is that moment of realizing the connection of all humans. And it's really beautiful. And so I just think that, like you were saying, finding the way to share that through a story is really powerful for people that don't have the ability to have that experience firsthand.

55:23

And I think those moments are more apt to happen if we have less of a schedule, or we allow ourselves to just have some openness, and some, you know, not not having everything kind of pre programmed, I remember I was on, I was at a conference in Ecuador, and I got a chance to travel around and I already in the back of my mind, I was wanting to commit to learning Spanish and to really commit to doing that somewhere.

But in my mind, I thought, oh, it's something that I'm going to do much later in life when I have, you know, much more time and maybe I'm retired. And while I was traveling around Ecuador, I realized that there were so many language schools in Ecuador, because the type of Spanish that they speak is very, and it's considered quite neutral. And so there are a lot of Spanish schools that have sprouted around that. Because of that, the type of Spanish spoken in Ecuador. And I also realized that it's essentially very close to the timezone and is pretty much the same as my timezone on the East Coast. And that the programs, the Spanish programs are actually all half day, most of them are half day programs. So you're in school in the mornings, and then you have your afternoons free.

And I thought, Oh, wow, maybe this is something that I can do, and still can continue to work. So in the back of my mind, I had to pick up something from the house of the conference organizer that I had left. And so when I got to his house, I met his wife, who, it turns out, runs a bed and breakfast in her home. And so this is what Listen, it's not a fancy neighborhood, but it's a very nice, you know, it was a nice neighborhood, but not not fancy. And I thought, bam. And I could stay here, and everything just kind of fell into place, like you see in a movie or whatever, it was just like digital, all of a sudden, the way was clear. And within five months, I was back in Ecuador, you know, hadn't really planned on it.

But I was back in Ecuador, living in that house. I had a school, you know, 10 minute walk away. And, I go to school in the mornings, work in the afternoons, and I have my weekends and evenings, you know, free to, to explore and travel. And so it was one of those things again, that just that serendipity could only happen if there was some openness to begin with. I can have an openness to having something happen. And I mean, I think it's amazing those wonderful serendipity of life, we could probably have more of them if we were just a little bit more open.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:11

Yeah, just slowing down. And like not only slow traveling, but slow living and allowing for the magic to kind of creep in every day.