Episode 65- Kathleen Rellihan, Travel Journalist
Travel is the search for something bigger, something outside of our own lives and limited perceptions of the world. And when we see what else is out there, we see what's at stake—and what could be lost. ~ Kathleen Rellihan
Travel is so much more than a destination and education. It is something that truly connects us to ourselves and others. Christine wanted to shape this season of Soul of Travel and examine who women in the travel industry are and how they're shaping our future. It’s really exciting to bring this conversation to the podcast and to share these travel perspectives with listeners.
Today’s guest is Kathleen Rellihan.
Kathleen Rellihan is an ideas woman, writer and adventurer who has written many articles about the achievements of women in the tourism industry. As a travel journalist, she's written about adventure, culture and sustainability, most recently as Newsweek’s travel editor.
Previously, she helped relaunch Adventure.com from the ground floor up as Editor-in-Chief, and she worked at Travel Channel for over seven years as a digital editor/producer.
As Newsweek's travel editor she spearheaded Newsweek's 2021 Future of Travel Awards, which highlighted those creating a travel industry that's more sustainable, responsible, innovative and inclusive. She also contributes to other outlets such as AFAR, CNN Travel, Hemisphere's Conde Nast Traveler, Scuba Diving Travel and Leisure and more.
For Newsweek, she interviewed Jane Goodall about the pandemic and her hopes for the planet and Hearts in the Ice, the first woman to overwinter in the Arctic alone for climate action.
She's also a media Herald for the Transformational Travel Council and a member of Women Travel Leaders. Her love of adventure has inspired her to climb two of the Seven Summits: Mount Elbrus and Kilimanjaro. Search for Shangri La in Tibet, scuba dive through an underwater prison in Estonia, and most recently learned to free dive in Baja, where she's based, splitting time between Mexico and Brooklyn.
In our conversation, Kathleen shares what it was like for her early in her career, to find herself in her dream job at the Travel Channel, but still longing for more, she finds herself leaving inspired by a trip to hike Kilimanjaro, we discover how this experience foreshadowed this period of the Great Resignation, and her recent move to become location independent.
Join Christine for her soulful conversation with Kathleen Rellihan.
In this episode, Christine and Kathleen discuss:
Who is Kathleen in the travel space and how she found herself in her dream job at the Travel Channel
How a trip for 2 months in Australia New Zealand at 11 birthed her love of travel and exploration
How Kathleen’s Mt. Kilimanjaro trip kick started her freelance journey
Who inspires Kathleen in the travel community
Creating a positive impact and the Future of Travel Awards
Kathleen’s interest in telling stories of sustainability and climate action in the industry
Where to go in 2022 and the power of these unique types of travel
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Kathleen Rellihan, visit her website www.kathleenrellihan.com
Follow on Kathleen on your favorite social platform Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.
The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.
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If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Kathleen Rellihan (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.
Transcript
KEYWORDS
travel, people, pandemic, world, trip, inspired, adventure, book, travelers, creating, tourism, industry, mentioned, love, women, exciting, kilimanjaro, great, life, conversation
Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08
Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.
Kathleen Rellihan is an ideas woman, writer and adventurer who has written many articles about the achievements of women in the tourism industry. As a travel journalist, she's written about adventure, culture and sustainability. As Newsweek's travel editor she spearheaded Newsweek's future of travel 2021 Awards, which highlighted those creating a travel industry that's more sustainable, responsible, innovative and inclusive. She also contributes to other outlets such as afar, CNN travel, hemisphere's Conde Nast Traveler, scuba diving, father's Travel and Leisure and more. She's also a media Herald for the transformational travel Council.
Her love of adventure has inspired her to climb two of the seven summits Mount Elbrus and Kilimanjaro. Search for Shangri La in Tibet, scuba dive through an underwater prison in Estonia, and most recently learned to free dive in Baja, where she's based, splitting time between Mexico and Brooklyn.
In our conversation, Kathleen shares what it was like for her early in her career, to find herself in her dream job at the Travel Channel, but still longing for more, she finds herself leaving inspired by a trip to hike Kilimanjaro, we discover how this experience foreshadowed this period of the great resignation, and her recent move to become location independent. We talked about how she has been inspired by members of the travel community, working to create a positive impact, and the future of travel awards, and her own interest in telling stories of sustainability and climate action in the industry.
We end with a few of the experiences she shared in her latest article, trips worth the weight, where to go in 2022 and the power of these unique types of travel. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Kathleen Rellihan. Welcome to soul of travel, I am so excited today to be sitting down and speaking with Kathleen Rellihan. And she has written many articles about the achievements of women in the tourism industry, which is what really initially drew me to her sphere. And I have always really appreciated your stories.
And when I launched my second season of this podcast, your name actually went right on the top of my dare to dream guest list. So I am so excited that you're here to be with me. And also, most recently, Kathleen spearheaded the first feature of travel awards, about the same time I was talking to having conversations about how I wanted to shape this season of Soul of Travel and how I wanted to examine who women in the travel industry are and how they're shaping our future. So it's really exciting to bring you into this space into this conversation and to get to share your perspectives with our listeners.
04:42
Oh, well, thank you so much. That was such a great introduction. I'm so excited to talk. I love the people that you have been interviewing and so I'm so honored to be part of this list.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:52
Thank you. Well, to begin our conversation, Kathleen, I would just love to give you the space to introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about who you are in the space of travel. And then we'll dive a little bit more into your background and your journey after that.
05:11
Great. Well, I guess that, you know, the best way to describe myself as a travel journalist, I've been working in the travel media space, for gosh, almost about, I would say 15 years, I have been a writer and editor, freelance on staff for many different outlets. And most recently, I was the travel editor at Newsweek. Prior to that I was editor in chief of adventure.com, where I started, we relaunched. And then prior to that I worked for a travel channel for about seven years. As a digital editor. That was the time when Anthony Bourdain and Samantha Brown were there. And it was a really exciting time for the travel channel. And I was working on creating content for the TV personalities and creating online talent and web series. And then along the way, I've always been a freelance writer. I'm a regular contributor to afar. I have fine lines, and CNN and features Travel Leisure Conde Nast. So yeah, I would say that, you know, primarily, I'm a storyteller, travel storyteller, traveler, Adventurer.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:19
Thank you for helping to paint that picture. I think one of my favorite things that we always uncover is that anyone involved in travel seems to be a bit of a storyteller, because travel in and of itself really helps us to tell the stories of people in places on the planet. And so I think that is kind of built into our DNA for people who love connecting and being out in the world in that way. And how exciting that was the time that you were at the Travel Channel, because I know for me, that was kind of the golden age of yes, that program. And I remember seeing Samantha Brown and being like, yeah, if she's out there doing that, I can do that. And again, like Anthony Bourdain, look how he spends his time with people and the way he tells the stories like, all of that really shaped my vision for storytelling, connecting and sharing in this industry as well. So I love that that is a part of, you know, part of your journey.
07:23
Yeah, I mean, it was really where I started off, you know, I had worked at like AOL. And I was working for a moon guidebook a little bit before that. But that was my first real travel full time job. And it was my dream job. It was absolutely I think I applied several times, and finally got a position and it was such a dream, such creative, interesting people. You know, it's rebranded so much over the years. So that's why I kind of wanted to, I'm so glad you recognize the golden age of it. Because yeah, you know, some people might turn to it now. It's different programming, but back then it was really about being a traveler, not a Taurus. That was like the whole tagline for a while.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 08:03
Yeah, it was a really great time to be able to sit and enjoy traveling virtually. These are kind of our first virtual travel experiences in that way. Well, as we get going, I would love to learn a little bit more about how you found travel or how travel found you. I always think this is such an interesting part of people's journeys in this industry. But when you were young, did you travel or what? How to travel to the kind of land in front of you?
08:36
Yeah, I love answering this question. So I'm glad you asked it. Because I think often people see people in the travel industry like travel writers. And they think that oh, wow, they've always been sort of like galavanting around the world, maybe they grew up in a family that lived all around the world. And so for me, while my parents were both, you know, into the outdoors, and we would camp a lot, we didn't, they weren't big travelers, they still aren't to this day. But I was lucky that at the age of 11, my grandparents, I'm the youngest of three, but my grandparents invited me and then my cousin, who was also the youngest on this epic two month trip to Australia, New Zealand. So that was my first trip out of the country. And much to the dismay of my siblings, and my cousin, siblings.
You know, I don't know why my grandparents picked us, maybe because we were young. Maybe because we got along well, but it just was such a pivotal shift in my life, to you know, not just leave a country 11 But like to go on, you know, this two month journey to some wild places like the Great Barrier Reef, you know, I will never forget that. So, I think from there, I knew I was like, I love this. I want to see the world. And then in college, I was a journalism major, which just inherently connects you to travel. And I studied abroad in Florence. Italy. And then I knew for sure it's like no, I want to be a travel writer. So I knew this way early on, which I think is really, really special because I think it's exciting when people change themselves and redefine themselves in so many ways. But I think it's also great to know you want to do something and, you know, to make it happen, it wasn't easy.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 10:21
Well, it's so interesting, because you can start on a journalism track and even know that you want to do something as specific as travel journalism. But over the course of your career, like how many variations has that taken, because we've shifted, you know, from print media, to digital media, to social media, like all of these different ways of storytelling within the same framework. So it's still, you're still kind of learning and reinventing, like you said, as you go through that
10:50
process. Totally, totally. And I love you know, I love to read about culture and art, but I feel like all of that really, is centered around the love for travel.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 11:01
Well, I want to go back to you mentioning your dream job at the Travel Channel. And really, having had this kind of on your bulletin board, like this is the big goal, and you got there. And we're loving the experience, learning a lot. And then kind of a bit of foreshadowing of this trend we're seeing right now with the great resignation and wanting to live in a way that lights you up. You heard about this trip to Kilimanjaro, and all of a sudden you had this realization, and it ended up shifting your trajectory.
But before we go there, I wanted to share from the article that you wrote about the journey, what I learned from dancing on top of his highest peak, which I loved so much I recall reading this and in the article you wrote about this journey. Despite our exhaustion and aching muscles, we have talked and laughed our way up the monstrous mountain up until now. But tonight, we have finally stopped talking. We can't waste energy nor oxygen. The only sound is our shallow breaths as we feel the air getting tighter on the ascent, and then follows just when we think we can't move a step more the collective energy we feed off in the days pyre starts to pick back up.
I don't know what the guides, Swahili chants that followed Three Little Birds mean. But at that moment, we again start to move in unison, and are paced following the same rhythm. And I wanted to share that because one that really resonated to a recent adventure for myself leading a group of women to climate 14 or in Colorado, but Oh, wow, who to like think about these emotions tied into travel, how pivotal these experiences are and what they end up meaning in our lives.
Like, I think you and I both really believe that travel is something so much more than education, that it is really something that truly connects us to ourselves and others. And so when I read that, it just made me think of that connection, that spirit that shifts, like what happens when we're so engaged in the travel experience. So I'd love for you to take us kind of to that moment where you heard about this climb of Kilimanjaro with low travel, which I know we're both big fans of and what happened, what was going on in your life. And then What did this experience mean to you?
13:38
Yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing those lines. It kind of gave me goosebumps a little bit to be back there. Because I will never forget that experience, especially at night. Yeah, I think this was 2015 if I'm remembering correctly, and I had been at the travel channel for about seven years. And it was a great job. You know, I got to be with some, like incredible people in the industry. But it was primarily an office job. I mean, you know, I did get to go on some cool assignments, when there was like a production. But really, it was, you know, producing and managing things from an office environment. This is like back before people worked remotely a lot. But we did a little bit. So, seven years into it. I just, you know, I was assigning writers or signing video talent to go out and do things. And I really wanted to be on the other side more. And I kept on talking.
You know, I was really inspired by I don't know if you've ever heard of the lost girls. They had a book that came out maybe around 2012. I'll have to find out if that's the right time. It was definitely a few years before I left the travel channel and I read their book. And there was a meetup I think it was like in Washington DC where I was living at the time. And it was like at a hostel. I think like some hostels and they were doing a reading and I read their book I went in and they were like right around the same age as me they were super Cool. And they were sort of like, you know, before there were all these bloggers like, they were these three New York best friends that had jobs and media that quit their jobs to travel around the world. And they wrote a book about it. And I read the book, and I was like, wow, this is so cool. So I actually started working with them. And we did like a whole web series, a travel channel called the Lost girls. And, you know, it was like, video and articles.
And it was just sort of, before people had like, sort of their own brands on like, Instagram and influencers, it was just like these three real life women that quit their jobs and traveled around. And anyway, so they, they really were part of the inspiration. And then we had a few other travel channels that quit their jobs to go around the world. So we call it the Travel Channel effect, that you work there long enough, and you're just gonna quit traveling, but you'll still stay in the full you'll still be with everyone. So that's basically I was deciding when and I just could not pull the plug cuz it's like, how do you just quit your job to travel? You know? How do you do it? Right? So I remember the movie, because I just always add this in. For some reason I tell the story. I was in line for Gone Girl.
And I was like checking my email, like, you know, someone that wasn't very in tune to like mindfulness, probably back then. And I saw this someone forwarded to me, and it was like a subject line, such as Kilimanjaro. And I opened it up, and it was like, hey, you know, there's an opening on this trip. Women high on adventure. Whoa, travel. What do you think? And I just remember, I responded, like, replied, Yes, like all caps I'm in. And so that basically is what prompted me to resign from Travel Channel was that I wanted to climb Kilimanjaro. And to do that, you know, you could think, Well, why didn't you just take a vacation, but I wanted to make that trip. Important to my story. And I knew that that would be the kickoff that would be like the Kickstart to my freelance world. And I also knew that I wanted to take a lot of time afterwards, I didn't want to just climb Kilimanjaro and rush back to the office. So yeah, so that's how I ended up leaving Travel Channel. And when I told everyone at the travel channel, I was, you know, so nervous to tell people because I thought they thought it was, I don't know, reckless or, you know, not thought out. And they all loved it. They were like, Oh my God, of course, you have to do that.
So like I said, there was already sort of this, like the history of people that work there that like to quit traveling. And like two of my best friends now do the same thing that work there. So yeah, that's how I started. And then women high on adventure. It's um, women's adventure travel run by two friends that met climbing Kilimanjaro themselves, and they decided that they needed to create a company that can really support women doing challenging sort of trips around the world like Kilimanjaro. I also climbed Mount Elbrus, the highest mountain in Europe with them. And it's all about being supportive. It's not like this hardcore competitive vibe. It's more like, hey, let's get a group of women together and do a really challenging thing. Be supportive, you know, and then also incorporate, you know, helping some of the local communities and local women by sponsoring them to be guides.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 18:24
I don't want to step away from this conversation for too long. But have you heard, solo travel has been nominated for a Bessie award in the wonderful award category as a brand that has gone above and beyond to support, empower and represent women in 2021. As a listener, you know that I am deeply committed to amplifying the voices of women in the travel community, and it is such an honor to be nominated. If you are a member of the wonderful community who has attended a past women in travel Summit, please consider voting for the soul travel podcast, not familiar with wonderful, I highly recommend checking them out. You can listen to episode 43 with wonderful founder Beth Santos to learn more. Now let's get back to our soulful conversation.
Yeah, I love that. And I think that those kinds of experiences are so powerful and like you said that I love that you kind of knew ahead of time that you already wanted it to be like a moment in your story and that you knew that in order to kind of put the exclamation on it that you had to let it be its own moment and that you left your position and, and really just kind of took that leap, which I think for our listeners, you know for many people, especially right now, a lot of people are looking for permission to do that and to to hear that call and then just saying yes, like most of us don't do that text message back. We're like, right well, maybe Let me think about it.
Let me find all the reasons why I shouldn't do this. And then you know, a few people will say yes, but it takes something to just hear that call and just go for it. And then there's probably also some of us who hear that call and want to say yes, all the time, but do find that maybe we should say no once in a while, but I think it is a little uncomfortable to just cut those ties and jump and just see what's on the other side. So I love that you did it in a community of women who were supporting you and one another, to climb to do something like climb Kilimanjaro, which isn't obviously, you know, is not an easy journey. That's quite a big adventure to take on. So I think that is just such a powerful and amazing way to kind of launch into the next phase of, of your, your own journey.
20:55
For sure. And then also, it's sort of, you know, professionally, it was such a big leap for me that proved to be really a great step. So that kind of launched me into really wanting to do more adventurous, I mean, I was always sort of doing adventure travel before but then, you know, I started becoming really good friends with girls and their community and really just got more involved in more adventurous trips. And that's sort of defined, I guess, the last seven years of like, things I've written as well as just sort of adventure travel, and how that can be transforming and impactful, you know, for the traveler the destination, so, so yeah, so that trip just not only paid off in my personal life, but professionally as well. Yeah.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 21:39
And you mentioned, you know, I think, especially adventure travel, and I've talked about this with a few of my guests, but the way that how you travel when you're traveling, I guess in this bucket that we label adventure, travel is often a lot slower connect with the community, definitely connected to nature, you really start to see how your travel is impacting not only yourself, but in impacting communities and environments. And I think that that is such a good lead into what I would love to talk to you about next, which is the future of travel awards that you spearheaded in 2021.
And so many people who are personally inspiring to me, were included on the list of nominees and finalists, and even the panelists I interviewed I mentioned to you I interviewed Norie Quintos last week, and Paula Fleming's has come up soon. And so this was really exciting for me, when I saw this, I've kind of been in this headspace since the pandemic, and I've shared this as well. But I had this moment where I was like brushing my teeth or something. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is it. This is when travel dies, like I cannot believe this is happening.
And I was so sad and just heartbroken for like all of the people that would never have these experiences that I wanted them to have. And then I'm sure you can read something that can resonate for you. But then, like kind of my next breath. And my next thought was, No, this isn't when travel dies. This is when travel is born again. And I just started thinking about all of the amazing humans who are doing impactful work in travel who were not going to let the absence of being able to get on a plane and go somewhere stop the work that they're doing. And so when I saw the future of travel awards, I was like, Yes, like this is this is the moment where these people who I have been inspired by worked with been champions of this is when they get their moment kind of in the spotlight. And so I would love for you to talk to me a little bit about the future of travel awards, how that came up, you know, what that was meant to do in the context? You know, give us a little behind the scenes for that.
24:13
Great, well, thanks so much for all your kind words about it. You know, it was, I mean, when people think of Newsweek, they don't necessarily think of responsible travel covered. And so it was a big challenge. For me. I started off as a travel editor there. And they originally wanted to do travel awards before the pandemic and I had been working on it. I had a similar methodology of having a panel of experts sort of weigh in and highlight people in industry that were doing cool things, but then the pandemic happened, and we had to put it on hold. It just didn't make sense, of course. And then as so many things in the pandemic, it gave us time or more.
You know, I'll say it gave me time because I was really the person that was putting this all together. It gave me time to really reassess and think what is really needed right now? What is relevant to the conversation of travel? Is it highlighting, you know, the best view and all this other stuff that we don't really care about as much? Or is it taking a look at how travel is being rebuilt or reimagined? And so pretty much around, I think the end of 2020 I, you know, I, there's tons of features about the future of travel, I mean, certainly lots of people were talking about it as a concept. But I thought, well, maybe we take these awards, and we make that the angle that we don't know what travel is going to look like. But this is what we want it to look like, or this is how the right direction we think travel could go. So basically, then we just switched, kind of reworking the theme to be sort of relevant at that moment, or relevant for whatever happened.
If another surge happened, however, just this is the future, you know, and then it just became so much more exciting to work on. And really, that was more authentic to who I was. So it's such a great privilege to be able to work on that at Newsweek. So yeah, I mean, essentially, you know, it, highlight it, those creating a travel industry for the future. So, you know, one that's more adaptable, sustainable, responsible, innovative, and inclusive. And so, you know, the situation with COVID-19, it had such an impact on the tourism industry, but it was also giving people a time to think about what to do next. And, you know, I think what a lot of people that are in the tourism industry don't realize is that tourism is one of the main sources of income for so many people around the world.
And so when you take away that source of income, it has major ripple effects. And so it's this idea that when it's safe, of course, how can we travel in a way that distributes the wealth with tourism in a really thoughtful way, so that these small companies and these small destinations around the world can really benefit? And yeah, so we had a panel of travel experts. You mentioned a few Shannon Stoll co venture travel trade, Stephanie Jones, Founder, and CEO of National Blacks and Travel and Tourism. Paul of Lemmings, Chief Impact Officer of tourism careers, Co Founder of Future Tourism, and so on this panel, we basically had a lot of nominations, and then we all sort of had this hard task of filtering it down to who are the finalists and who are the winners. And that was really the difficult part. So yeah, there were so many.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 27:43
Yeah, I mean, when I looked at the list, I was looking at it again today, just to be reminded, and even since then, like knowing some of them and knowing the work they've done since that point, like I think it would have been an impossible challenge. So I'm really glad that it wasn't handed to me to be able to do that. But I just for me, it's so exciting, because I have always looked at travel through this lens of what can we use travel for?
Like, how can travel make the world better. And it really started with one of my first jobs in the adventure travel industry was with a cruise company that was helping, you know, to protect, you know, wildlife water conservation and provide, you know, make sure their ships were operating in a more eco friendly way. And it was just that first kind of taste of that, I thought, Well, why? Why would you do anything else? Like clearly this is possible? Why isn't this the baseline consideration, and that was, gosh, probably almost 20 years ago. So it really wasn't what people were talking about. But for me now to see this emphasis and maybe this possibility that that might be upon us where that isn't the like selling features that you are eco friendly or sustainable. Like, you have to come up with something else because everybody is friendly and sustainable. Mmm.
And I know that one of the women that you wrote about that won, her company or organization won the visionary award is Christina Beckman with tomorrow's air. And that that really inspired you, you had mentioned to me previously about thinking about climate action, creating stories that can tell that story within the travel context. But I would love for you if you wanted to just share a little bit about what, how that really landed for you and what, in what ways that inspired you.
29:48
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up about that visionary award. So we had a category called visionaries, and it was two parts individuals and companies or collectives. And the company collective that won the future travel award visionary was about tomorrow's air. And so Christina Beckman, who you mentioned, yes, I think she's so brilliant. She's the co-founder. And tomorrow's air.
For people that don't know, it's the first travel collective for carbon removal with permanent storage, which essentially, is really exciting because it's bringing, like this idea of a tangible, affordable way for travelers to do their part in the climate crisis. But it also is just inspiring, like climate conversations within this community of travelers who love the world already, and are like, should be the first people that want to protect it. So I just think the tear air is incredible. And I also just think the way that they approach the conversation is incredible, like the, you know, as I mentioned, I love to cover art and culture as well. And they're artists for air, I think is called, if I'm saying it correctly, it's just a group of artists that they feature that, you know, are inspired by the climate crisis, and they use their art as a way to, to reach people and to make it an emotional action versus, you know, you see art, you feel something. And it's like, we need to feel this about climate change as much as if we were, you know, on a sailboat going along a melting glacier. So I just think they're incredible. Totally. There.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:28
Thank you for sharing that. And for people listening, if you missed I did talk with Christina in season two, Episode 28. So you can go back and learn more about her journey and the creation of tomorrow's air. Yeah, I agree. Like, I just love the way they are again, it comes to this storytelling, but like you mentioned, they really are inviting people into this conversation from so many angles, that it really makes it make something that seems impossibly difficult to think about and talk about more approachable.
And so I think that is one of the pieces of value, like you said that they are really adding, adding to that part of the industry. Well, I want to kind of shift gears here . We talked a little bit about this, as you mentioned, working at travel channel and this idea of the great resignation, but we're really seeing that now. Like in the industry, even really, across the board, people are looking, they're reexamining their lives in the context of this pandemic, they are wanting to reinvent themselves to create a life that's more intentional, the life that they really want to live. And also people are really seeking and finding that it's possible to be location independent and work from anywhere around the world.
And I know that you have recently led you to Baja Mexico. And so that is very exciting. It seems like I feel like everybody I know, although it's not true that he has recently been guided there. But I would love to talk to you a little bit about that. What, what has this meant in your life right now? What was that nudge? Like? And? And what does this look like to be kind of in this position again, of getting to come back into alignment? And, and create change and and bring that to your journey and to see where that moves you forward?
33:36
Yeah, no, I'm so glad you brought this up. It is such a great way to sort of like tell the full story of what really lights me up right now. So yeah, I was based in New York City, Brooklyn. Shout out to Greenpoint, Felicity, for about the last six years, and sort of after, you know, to bring back up that Kilimanjaro climb, I was living in DC. And so to move up to New York was such a great time in my life, because it was like media world, there's actually there was a huge travel community in New York at that time in there still. And so I moved up there and just loved being in the city. And even you know, when the pandemic happened, I always say that it was such a privilege to be in Brooklyn during the first part of the pandemic.
Just witnessing such humanity and incredible, you know, people working together, but I started to get a little stir crazy here. I am this traveler, it's my identity, to be a traveler, travel writer, and I can work from anywhere, right. I mean, I essentially worked remotely, even when before the pandemic. And so it just sort of got me thinking, you know, as we as people got vaccinated and things became a little safer, I was like, I Just want to work somewhere where I can also fit in other things that light me up being outdoors you know adventure such. So I spent one month in Todos Santos, Baja California Sur Mexico. And I was so inspired. There's such this blur here of it brings people that are really passionate about everything in life from art to surfing to free diving to, to whale watching to hiking, to just being outside. And yeah, it brought me here and then I ended up just staying I just I had someone was subletting my apartment in Brooklyn, I just kept on staying every month. And I got some my best work done. I think I could mention right now, but it's all said and done. But I produced the entire future of travel words from Todos Santos, Baja.
So you know, I mean, great work can happen. Wherever you are in the world. And if you're inspired, you're going to produce your best work. So yeah, so that basically, kind of gave me a trial run of it. And then this past October, I officially got rid of my apartment in Brooklyn and became you know, trying to figure out the right word, but I'm using location independent, because I'm not nomadic as much because I'm based in places for a while, but I just can be based anywhere. Because I'm, you know, working remotely. So at the end of the year, I did a few work trips, but I've been based in Baja for the last few months again, so now it's been a year here. And it's going to take me this disability work remotely to my next spot, which I will be in Chile for a little bit for at least a month or so and working there on a great assignment. So
Christine Winebrenner Irick 36:47
yeah, I love seeing that kind of thing, it's so interesting in the travel industry. And I have actually had this conversation with people there. They're like, Oh, I love to travel, I want to work in the industry as well. And I'm like, well be careful. Because what you end up doing often is talking about other people's travel or organizing other people's travel, but you are not necessarily traveling.
So there's like this lore to the industry because you love to travel. But you much like you said, you kind of end up finding yourself not traveling. And so I love that you are able to bring those pieces together. And I mean, this is one of the amazing things that's happened over the past two years is these technological advances that really enable us to do that. And I think like you said, it's this is going to allow for people to show up, more fulfilled because if you are sitting in a endlessly cloudy, cold month in New York, like wishing you were in Mexico, you're not going to be creating the same piece as if you write something and get to take a walk along the beach, and then come back and you know, ground yourself in your work. But you really are going to be telling a different story and sharing through a different lens. And so I think not just in the travel industry, but for people in all industries that once they can be kind of operating out of this place of joy, that they're going to create something so much more impactful.
38:27
Absolutely. And I think if if the pandemic showed us anything, it's that we can do our best work from wherever we are, in fact, we're doing better work because we're not distracted by so many things that we used to have to deal with, with commutes and everything and ensure I miss networking and meeting people at travel events. And I'm still doing that, you know, my location independence of as of recently can bring me right back to New York to stay for a while, which I'll probably do throughout this year, to meet to see friends and family again, and also to be you know, in those travel events and talking to people.
So it's definitely just this idea that if you can bring your work wherever and I think that's sort of what the pandemic reinforced for me. So yeah, I think that hopefully, it's inspired lots of people. I mean, we still, you know, I think the perfect future would be people can work remotely, but maybe there's, and I think, you know, some businesses are trying this, like certain times throughout the year that you might be based in the same area and work or even if you you're all living in the same city, maybe you know, some, some of my friends are, like a few days a month or maybe every other week. And so it's this idea that we still need to meet, to meet and to collaborate, but we can also get so much done wherever we are. We don't have to be all living in expensive cities and glued to communion and all that other things.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 39:53
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it just offers so much more balance and I think you know other countries and cultures have had a better handle at that than then we have, I think in the US, especially all along, but it has shown us that we can, can do that. And I know like in my own home life, the few times when we've all been quarantined at home, like initially thinking this is going to be a disaster. But then like, it's really amazing for me to sit in and watch my kids learning something on Zoom and see their excitement firsthand where that happens somewhere else every other day, normally, or for my husband to be able to come up and make lunch for my kids from his office space. Or, you know, it's just been very interesting, like you said, to kind of witness how we can do this. And it just opens up the doors to thinking about how we can create changes in the way we work and how we work and what we expect out of people in a professional context.
40:54
Yeah, and I think even outside of the tourism industry, I think it's really showing that, you know, you don't need to live in a city to get a quote, you know, great job, or a job that's in a creative field or in the media field. And so I think that the people that are creating these stories, and the storytelling is going to be more diverse as well, because it'll be for more parts all over versus just the people that end up in the New York media world. Which I still love. I don't want you to know, I still love that world. And like I said, I'm planning to go back next month, I'll be there for a bit. So it's just more about knowing that there's, there's more, yeah, there's more out there, there's more space, there's more ways to do things. It's not like saying one way is this bad. You know, I mean, who knows, maybe I'll only do this for the next few months. And then I will return. I mean, it's just with the pandemic, I think we've also realized that we can quickly adapt and change to whatever the world is presenting us. You know, at that moment,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 41:56
Yeah, nothing has that same level of permanence, that it right before, for better or for worse, like there's that ability to realize that we are more resilient than we think that there's more possibilities, and opportunities that just were kind of trapped in, in the routine that we had created before. So I love that. And I also love that it's allowing people like you said, who maybe have been immersed in the city, because that is where their career was dependent. But maybe they end up somewhere in the Midwest and like, find something that they love, and they can share. But also it creates space for people to spend time in the city in a way they wouldn't have before because their people are shifting all over. And so it just opens up all these doors for other people to kind of have different experiences. So I'm really interested to see when we reflect back, you know, five years from now, what we'll see has been, you know, other trends out of this, I wanted to go back, you briefly mentioned freediving something that you have just found yourself enjoying during this transition. And myself, I have really been diving into breathwork Oh, but I feel like, you know, you had said this The freediving to me that it's been very transformative. So I would love to just learn a little bit more about what that has brought into your life. I think everybody's always looking for these ways to connect and heal. And we find that so much with nature and breath. So I'd love to hear your experience.
43:40
Yeah, I mean, it's, I, you know, as we talked about earlier, like this idea of adventure, or a challenge really is so transformative, right? The nature of it, like it just we're better versions of ourselves when we like take upon a new challenge. And so I love the ocean. That's one of the reasons that brought me here to Baja. And I had been, you know, I had scuba.as, a scuba diver, you know, certified or whatever, for all these years. But really scuba diving, even here. It's it's difficult to arrange Well, it's not difficult, but it's expensive. It's, you know, you have to get a lot of gear you need to get, you know, you have to sign up with a group or you know, you can't just go out there.
And I went on this, I was an assignment here in Baja. And I went on this expedition called Mobile expedition. And the mobile is like, you know, you might know the they're essentially like, how do I describe them? They are, well, they're, they're fish anyways. It's hard to Google what they are. But the whole point is that they migrate along the coast of Baja, for I think it's like April to June every year. And it's this incredible phenomenon, and the best way to see them is Buy snorkeling or free diving, essentially, they just don't like bubbles scuba diving. So I went on this expedition and with dive ninjas, and so there's no scuba diving. So it's like four days of us just jumping in the water with our snorkeling gear, and trying to look for, you know, the elusive mobilus. And so the guide really told us, like, gave us a few tips on, like, free diving, which essentially, is just going underwater holding your breath.
I mean, of course, it's so much more than that. It's a sport. People, you know, compete around the world, there's world records, I mean, it's, it's a massive thing, but just in the level that interests me, it's this idea of me going down to the, you know, below the surface and seeing the world pausing, without the assistance of you know, scuba gear. So I decided that I wanted to get, you know, to take a course. And so I'm certainly absolutely I'll just say, total beginner, I'm still learning but I just got my certification, which is just basically you learn the safety and how to go about freediving certainly doesn't mean that you're, like, great at it, or anything. But it's just been so great for me, because it's been, you know, it's just training yourself to lose the fear and so underwater, you know, you're just you're calm, you're at ease, you're holding your breath, and you might not be down there for long. But it's just an incredible experience. So, again, it's just something I'm dabbling in, I by no means an expert, but it's just great that I get to try that out. Like, on the weekends here, you know,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 46:38
I just think it's so amazing the gifts that that travel can give us and that being one, like you said, you you have the ability to be able to just to go and to do that without needing to rely upon anybody else. And I know when I first when you first mentioned that you were doing free diving, I have done scuba diving, and the idea of free diving, for some reason, brought up like this immediate resistance. But then just as you were describing that freedom, like that's what I initially felt diving, to be able to just be in the quiet and the stillness, but then to imagine doing that without the assistance of you know, any kind of gear or technology would even be this more kind of holistic or natural experience.
And so now I'm really curious that maybe I would be able to push myself to, to get a little uncomfortable in order to have that type of experience myself, because I love the water as well. And I feel like it's so healing. And like that first time when you really get under the water, and you start to see everything that's there. Like, it really is this whole other world. And I know especially in the Sea of Cortez like being there in the spring when that water comes alive has been on my wish list for so long. And I think that it is such an incredible experience. So I'm I have a little bit of envy. But I'm so excited that that gets to be a part of your life right now. I want to end, as we were just talking about these amazing experiences, you recently wrote an article where to go in 2022.
So I know many of us are thinking about traveling, we're trying to find that balance of the right time to re-engage with the world, as you mentioned, travel as a major economic contributor. And we really want to be a part both of creating that positive impact, but also with getting immersed in the world so that we can remember, you know why we're fighting to protect it. And so, I would love to just talk a little bit about some of those experiences. For our listeners, I'll put a link to this article in the show notes. But for me, you had mentioned a trip to meet with Rumi, scholars in Turkey, which Oh yeah, oddly has been on my list, you would think that's probably something people hadn't heard of, but I heard of someone doing a trip like that. And also, Bhutan and the trans Bhutan trail now has been something as well as the traditional sailing experience on the Nile.
These are all oddly things that when I started early and travel, I had met with all of these kinds of adventures that did these things that sounded completely impossible at the time, which, luckily for me have all Now like many of them come to fruition, but these are still a few of those experiences that I wish to have. And then for people closer to home, a friend of mine, Anthony lo Rubio, who's the founder of recall, which he has these really cool trips, visiting glaciers. I'm a Montana girl. So anything that gets people to Montana makes me excited as well. But I would just love to hear when you were putting together this list about where to go in 2022. What was getting you excited? What brought together all of my dream trips into one list? I'm like, really wishing I could take every single one of these.
50:22
I know. I mean, well, first of all, if you know, these lists are just, you know, that's why I just said, I call it trips worth the wait, this isn't the be all and end all list. This is just to get people inspired. Because we need somebody to look forward to, like, no matter where we are, in this pandemic surge or not surge or whatever's happening, like travel is something that is going to lift us up and put something amazing on the calendar for us to look forward to. So I think essentially, I was just looking for this idea of dream escapes, but with this idea that they are meaningful as they are thrilling. So trips that have a positive impact on the places they touch, as they do on the travelers themselves. And so you listed off some examples, actually, the mobile array trip that I did, that was one example. And you know, essentially, it's also when we travel, we want it to count.
So we want it to be a great adventure. But we also want it to be something that we can feel really good about. And we know that we've made, you know, a tiny ripple of impact in the world, even small. So you just mentioned the trans Bhutan trail. It's really exciting that I think this is opening in March of this year. So it's basically a 250 mile historic pilgrimage route. It's reopened after 60 years. And you know, Bhutan is like the happiest country in the world. And so this idea that you are, you know, going, helping to distribute the much needed income to these remote communities along the trail. But while you're also getting a chance to camp and sleep in homestays, you're getting like this immersive experience, but you're also helping to get that tourism income spread out from not just like, you know, the big touristy places, I'm just looking through the list. I love Anthony's trip.
You know, this whole idea of like, we hear of like, dark sky protected areas, but this idea of quiet parks, and you know, to spend like who wouldn't right now want to sign up for a trip in a quiet park. So his, you know, you were saying his Glacier National Park trip is so cool, because it's, you know, it's in this newly designated quiet Wilderness Park. And as defined by a nonprofit organization, quiet parks International. And so this idea that you're you're going on silent hikes, you're stargazing, you know, you're on Karlis. Roads, I think it was just so perfect for this time where we're at with a pandemic, when you just want to get away and, and sort of be in a quiet, you know, the mobile trip I've mentioned, while it's a really cool thing to do, it's also helping to show the fisherman in this area that more or less can be more valuable alive than dead with with ecotourism.
So if you get more of the fishermen to want to take out travelers to see the mobile phones then they won't try to sell them as food. So they can keep these species continuing on in these waters. So that's just a handful of them, trying to think if there's any other ones, but essentially, it's just this idea of like trips that are amazing, they're great. But they're also going to make some sort of hopefully small impact in the world and inspire you to then take that impact home with you. So I always think that like traveling, I'm the best version of myself when I'm traveling. So after you have these experiences, then you're then going home and bringing that with you to wherever, whatever, career or whatever work you do with your family and your friends. So that's really what I'm, what lights me up, what I'm passionate about.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:57
Yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, for me, it's so interesting, because as I mentioned, that's kind of where I started my career in the industry. So I've always been seeking to add that layer to travel, but I love helping other people see that because like you mentioned with conservation of fish like that that educational component can shift the way something is viewed. I've noticed when they travel and connect with artisans, where a craft has maybe been starting to be lost in a culture that by bringing travelers there to one buy the goods to learn the process of creating the goods, it shows this value of that skill and of that part of the culture. And I think that there's so many ways that when we look at what travel does from a wider lens, we really can see the value that it has, you know, not just the travel experience itself, but as you mentioned, like there's so many different ways that it can ripple and I love that now, instead of that kind of being something that happens when we travel just kind of by accident. Now it's really the focus like we are looking, how many layers can we have? How many ripples can we start? What can we do to make sure that if we are going to commit, you know, the time and energy resources, to to travel? How can we ensure that it is having the most impact for us and for others around us? And I just think it's such a great time to be a part of this industry with that being a large focus for so many people.
55:41
Yeah, so well said. I agree. I think it's a difficult time, but it's also an exciting time for new ideas and new ways to be developed and tourism.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 55:52
Yeah. Well, Kathleen, I appreciate this conversation. I'm so excited to have had you join me and get to talk about some of these things that have been really inspiring to me and my, my career personally, before we end. I just want to offer you the opportunity if people want to reach out and connect with you how they can do that. And then also the last part of the conversation is a quick, seven rapid fire ish question.
56:24
Oh, how fun. Well, yeah, and I think people can find me on I have a new website, kathleenrellihan.com. You can find me on Instagram @k_rellihan. I'm always looking for new ideas of stories to cover and small over the world. So I would love to always get feedback on what's happening out there.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 56:50
Thank you. Okay, so first question. I prefer Okay, read. What is your favorite book or movie that offers you a travel escape or inspires an adventure?
57:02
Oh my gosh, well, this is gonna seem a little odd. But my favorite book is station 11. And it's about a pandemic. And it seems really depressing. But it's actually about finding what lights you up in life and continuing on. And it has my favorite quote is survival is insufficient, which is also from the book but it's originally a Star Trek, but this isn't rapid fire. Okay, I'll be faster.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 57:24
You notice I call it rapid fire ish. Yeah, really not rapid fire. Oh, just meant to be like the first thing that comes to your mind. But I love that you've kind of maybe all already been mentally preparing for this pandemic for forever. Yes, yes. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
57:41
A book? Yeah, I mean, I love to read. And I love to get away from holding things like electronics. With this sort of working wherever in the world. I have to have my laptop. And so I love actual real books.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 57:56
Yeah, I remember my first trip that I took that was long, I went to Thailand. And I think I went for six weeks. And half my backpack I think was books. It was ridiculous. And then I learned that there were all these places like, every little island and every little village where you could kind of either go swap your books, or you could sell your books and buy books really cheaply. But yes, I travel and books for me like my dream vacation is probably a pile of books and a hammock. Yes, totally. What has been your favorite destination? Gosh,
58:29
That's so hard. Um, well, I'll just give some love to where I'm at right now. Baja, California, Mexico.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:37
Where have you been so long to visit?
58:41
Well, I really want to see Antarctica. So fingers crossed, I'll get there hopefully really soon.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:49
Excellent. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
58:54
Well, during the pandemic, I became a pescatarian. And I'm trying to eat more plant based food. But I would say coffee is something that I always love to get a cup of coffee, like in a local spot wherever I am. And you know, it does. It does taste different throughout the world. And it's always like a cool spot. You know, we find out how people are spending their break time.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 59:19
Yeah, and then depending how far off the grid you are, like how it's prepared and even like how the beans are roasted. Like I've had the opportunity to say over open fire and stir the beans and everything. So yeah, I love that idea of thinking about coffee when you travel.
59:34
Yeah, it's so simple but so good.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 59:36
Yeah. Who was the person that inspired you to set out and explore the world?
59:43
So many people, but I will say I would if I had been invited to go to Australia with my grandmother, and my grandfather, but my grandmother was really the one I think that loved to travel more. I mean that really shaped my life. So To look back at all her wild adventures, just generations ago, when travel was not as easy.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:00:08
And the last one, if you could take an adventure with one person fictional or real alive, or past two, would it be?
1:00:16
Oh my gosh. Ariel from Little Mermaid? I don't know. I don't know. I'll have to think about that one. But maybe
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:00:28
You can definitely pre-dive with Ariel. So maybe that would be epic. Oh, yeah, I'll think about that more. Well, I am, I'm so happy that we finally got to do this. It has been a pleasure. And for anyone listening, just make sure you check out some of these articles that I'll share with you. Thank you so much for joining me today on soul travel.
1:00:52
Thank you so much. And it's so great what you're doing to amplify these voices of women and, and the changes they're making in the industry. So thank you. It's such an honor to be here.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:01:16
Thank you for listening to the Soul of Travel. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you love this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe, rate the podcast and share the episodes that inspire you with others. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome.
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