Episode 106 - Emily Goldfischer, Hertelier
Yes, women’s leadership influences the motivation of employees in positive ways. There is no question, womens innate transformative leadership styles are effective within an industry and lead to positive results. We demonstrated that the inherent transformational leadership style of women has direct, positive impacts on employees themselves, on organizations themselves, on industries.
As women progress up the corporate ladder and reach high-level/executive positions at hospitality and travel companies, there has been some initial interest in understanding the impact of increasing gender diversity on these firms, especially with respect to company outcomes.
While increasing gender diversity can be observed in the operational and managerial levels in hospitality, women are a minority only at senior levels and in top levels of executive management. Even with an increase in the number of women executives and higher levels of education achieved by women, diversity remains lacking in senior positions. As highlighted by academic and industry studies, women need to be occupying top/executive positions because gender diversity is the right thing to do, not because women contribute better results.
Women are increasing in senior roles in the hotel industry, according to one report. Women are increasing their presence in senior roles within the hospitality industry in the United States, whether it is executive positions or speaking engagements. While female leaders are dominating HR, accounting for 58% of CEOs, their leadership is continuing to increase in other areas.
These brief statistics illustrate the strides women are making to further their careers at hospitality companies and move into leadership roles. As women make progress into higher-level management and leadership roles, the pace of female representation has increased over the years, and the role of women executives in improving company performance has been an area of focus.
Christine’s guest today turned her passion and love for hotels and people and created a online media platform that enlightens and inspires women in hospitality to pursue, navigate, and nurture their careers at every stage, through sharing information and sparking conversation, Hertelier.
Emily Goldfischer is the Editor-In-Chief at Hertelier. She has an insatiable curiosity and deep love for hotels and the people that run them. Hertelier is a convergence of all of her passions.
She has been in the lodging industry since 2019 when she spent a ski season working in Colorado at the Sheridan Steamboat Springs with stints in jobs ranging from PBX operator and room service waiter to parking lot attendant. After graduating from the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration. She began marketing and promoting hotels, restaurants and destinations on the agency side before joining Loews Hotels is the Vice President of Public Relations.
This conversation is so full of important topics, Christine cannot believe they touched on them all. A few of the things Christine and Emily discussed are how important representation really is to inspire peers and the next generation in amplify the voices of women in the hospitality industry.
Emily also shares the innovative ways women are using technology to solve problems in the hospitality industry. And Emily talks about the increase of women becoming CEOs and GMs right now. And the shift that is created this change. There's so much more.
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Emily Goldfischer.
In this episode, Christine and Emily discuss:
How travel found Emily
Emily’s passion and why she started Hertelier
The importance of bringing women into leadership roles within the hospitality industry
Women using technology in the hospitality and tourism industry to solve problems
How to attract and keep women in the hospitality industry
Why women are drawn to the hospitality industry?
The importance of sleep and self-care in the workplace
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Emily and Hertelier, head over to www.Hertelier.com
Follow Hertelier on your favorite social media platform - Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn
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We’ll explore the wilderness by snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice and vegan meals all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful northern lights that like to show off their magic this time of year.
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of this year’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.
The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.
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If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Emily Goldfischer (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.
Transcript
KEYWORDS
women, industry, hotel, hospitality, travel, stories, create, conversation, business, hotels, inspire, jobs, pandemic, hospitality industry, lodging
Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08
Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.
Emily Goldfischer is the Editor-In-Chief at Hertelier she has an insatiable curiosity and deep love for hotels and the people that run them. Hertelier is a convergence of all of her passions. She has been in the lodging industry since 19 When she spent a ski season working in Colorado at the Sheridan Steamboat Springs with stints in jobs ranging from PBX operator and room service waiter to parking lot attendant. After graduating from the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration. She began marketing and promoting hotels, restaurants and destinations on the agency side before joining Loews hotels as the Vice President of Public Relations. Hertelier is an online media platform that enlightens and inspires women in hospitality to pursue, navigate and nurture their careers at every stage through sharing information and sparking conversation.
Our conversation is so full of important topics, I cannot believe we touched on them all. A few of the things we discussed are how important representation really is to inspire peers and the next generation in amplifying the voices of women in the hospitality industry. We also share the innovative ways women are using technology to solve problems in the hospitality industry. And we talk about the increase of women becoming CEOs and GMs right now. And the shift that created this change.
There's so much more. So let's just jump right into it. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Emily Goldfischer. Welcome to the soul of travel podcast. I am delighted to be sitting down today with Emily Goldfischer to talk about the hospitality industry, which is a space that we have not really featured on the podcast. So I'm really excited to dive in. Actually, when I was traveling in Switzerland I met with a few Herteliers and a marketing team. So it's conversations I've been starting to have around hospitality, but I'm really looking forward to learning more. So Emily, welcome to Soul of Travel.
03:47
Thanks so much. I am so excited to be here and to chat with you. And I'm a big fan of the soul of travel. And you know what you're doing, we're combining travel and women's empowerment. Those are my favorite topics. So super excited to be here. And I've also really loved the community that you built. So congratulations on that, Christine, and thank you for having me.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:12
Thank you. Yeah, I think one of the things that really initially drew me to Hertelier and for those of you listening, Emily is the Founder and Editor In Chief of Hertelier which is an online media platform where you're sharing stories of women in the hospitality industry. I think very similarly to inspire other women and lighten to create spark conversations around the things that women are facing. And so I think we have a lot of common interests and common passion. So I'm really excited to just dive into that with you.
04:47
Great, me too.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:48
So to get started, I would love for you to introduce yourself a little more than I just did. Let our listeners know who you are and what you look like in the space of travel right now.
05:00
Yeah. So I started Hertelier it's about a year and a half ago. So in March of 2021, and the idea basically came about, while I'm a journalist, I should say, and before that I worked in the hotel business for many years, running the PR for Loews hotels. And before that I worked in PR on the agency side doing travel and tourism, as a specialty. Yeah. But Hertelier, which is why we're here to chat today. I started in March of 2021. And it was basically the idea that had come about because I was noticing that in my role as a journalist, that more and more women were starting to take the top jobs and making some progress and what was traditionally a very much of a male oriented business.
So I thought to myself, there's just no space for women to be inspired to read about these amazing careers of these women, and to kind of get their stories out there and amplify their voices. So I said to myself, it's the pandemic, if there's ever going to be a time for me to start something, this is it, I have the time and spoke to some friends and colleagues in the industry about it. And everyone was super enthusiastic. So here we are 300 stories, actually later, amazing to have met and interviewed so many women, and it's just been a crazy inspiring ride. And people love it. The site's doing really well. We've interviewed everyone from CEOs to presidents to, you know, women in their first jobs working in the hotel business. So I mean, I would say that's the real difference about Hertelier is that I'm very the stories are very much focused on women that actually work in hotels. So not the full scope of travel and tourism, very much focused on lodging.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 07:05
Yeah, thank you for sharing that I love. I mean, there's so many parallels, because the soul of travel really was for me, this pandemic project as well. And from noticing that gap in the stories that were being told about women in the industry, wanting to create a space where we could really focus on that and draw attention and create inspiration for other women in the industry. So I think, kudos to you, um, 300 stories is amazing. And knowing what it feels like to receive those stories. It's also I think, so personally rewarding for me, it has been to be able to hear the stories and curate them, and put them into the space and kind of the energy that that creates is such a powerful thing that I didn't expect, but I don't know, what is your experience been in curating those stories?
07:52
Yeah, yeah, I have just been blown away by the connections that you make and hearing about everyone's individual journey. And then also, just the learning from it, like learning about different people, women's experiences, where they were willing to take risks, how that played out. For women just starting their journey, you know, what, what are the challenges? Where do they look for guidance and mentorship? So it really runs the gamut. And also, you know, there is, of course, the food and beverage element. I mean, there's so many elements of the lodging business. I mean, actually, this week, we ran a story about a woman who's the first woman to be a certified turfgrass equipment manager. So she basically runs the machines that keep golf courses, the golf course of a big five star resort nemacolin, in western Pennsylvania, looking immaculate. So just like the breadth of jobs, careers, has really been eye opening action. Yeah, I
Christine Winebrenner Irick 09:13
I think it's so amazing when you start pulling it apart, because especially as travelers or consumers of this industry, you kind of just see the people you interact with as you travel. So maybe the person who checks you into the hotel, someone who serves you a meal, and maybe someone who's cleaning your room, or you have very limited engagement with the industry. But there's so many pieces to make the magic happen that we don't think about and if you're thinking about getting into the industry, you also only see yourselves in those like three or four roles you've interacted with, and you don't realize there's so many components and maybe your zone of genius lies in one of those other components. And so it's so great for those stories to just be a catalyst for all possibilities.
10:01
Yeah, no, the really great point is that there are so many jobs that you don't even think about. And as a traveler, and what's been really nice about her Atelier is that it has offered this kind of peek behind the curtain. And what are all the different roles and responsibilities that make the magic as you say, of staying in a hotel?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 10:24
Yeah. Well, I would love to begin to talk about some of the components. We had a great conversation yesterday that I'm so grateful for using as the outline for this conversation. For those of you listening, we have a huge amount of things as per usual that we could bring into this conversation. But I'd love to start with thinking about why it is so important to bring more women into leadership roles in the hospitality industry. You said you noticed initially more women becoming CEOs and GMs right now than really ever before. Why do you think that's so important? And what shift do you think happened to make this possible?
11:06
Yeah, you know, that's a great starting point. And, you know, the hotel and restaurants, you know, the careers have historically been male dominated, partly because it's antisocial hours, that can cut into evenings and weekends, and that can conflict with, you know, family demands. And then also, one of the other challenges is that to move up in the hospitality business historically, has been, you know, you needed to move from city to city, and that can be difficult. And then also, actually, when I look back at it, you know, hotel schools, and the education that also has traditionally been, you know, male dominated, I actually went to Cornell, and even into the 1970s, you know, the hotel school at Cornell only had a handful of women now, actually, the school has more than half women. And I think overall of all hotel schools, I think, actually, it's more like 70% are women, which is why it's, it's great that we have this pipeline now that can go into these leadership roles.
Now, if you look at society in general, I think I mentioned yesterday, one of the books I'm reading right now, which is amazing, is called When Women lead. It's by Julia Boorstin, who's a reporter for CNBC. And she's, her book is focused on women in startups. But she does mention the statistic that of all the fortune 500 companies in the US right now. 8.8% have female CEOs. So the hotel industry mirrors that a bit and that in the leadership positions, you know, even though 50 to 70%, depending on which statistics, you're looking at 50 to 70% of lodging jobs, in general, are held by women, when you get to the leadership roles, actually, the very top jobs, it's still around 10%. So there's obviously a broken rung in the ladder somewhere where women, you know, aren't funneling to the top. But I think we are just now starting to see this change over the last, you know, three to five years, and certainly the pandemic has accelerated that I think more women now are taking these top jobs. So it's a really interesting time because the industry is building back now after the pandemic. Business is very strong, typically in the luxury sector. And, and we're seeing change, and it's really exciting.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 13:49
Yeah, I think it's really important. I love that you pointed out the statistics of the number of women who are involved in the hospitality industry and the number of women in those executive roles. I think I see that very much in the tourism industry. And then also, my noticing from the beginning of my career being at industry events, and how many women were there. And then just recently going to industry events and noticing the shift, and that's been over about a 20 year span, but really paying attention to that and being like, Okay, I'm not looking for, you know, two or three other women to connect within the room and find my peers, but that noticing there were so many more and then trying to pay attention to the roles that they were in and if they were founders, or were there more women and working for tourism boards versus larger tourism companies, like I kind of had that hat on while I was there and was really trying to notice. Notice that that change and that shift and another thing that you and I talked about, which is something I think I really noticed more. More women are jumping into entrepreneurship, and really at all stages, stages of their careers, starting companies. And so there were many female founders, but they're of their own small businesses. How is that? Have you witnessed that? or what have you seen?
15:20
Yeah, I'll talk about that. I want to make one point, though, because you brought up something, which is the presence of women at conferences and industry conferences. And again, this has historically been a real issue where there aren't many women, the women that attend, and babies don't feel comfortable, because they're very much in a minority. And this is something I give a lot of credit to a woman called Peggy Berg, who started this organization called because it is still a project, I think it's maybe in its fifth or sixth year. And her whole mission is to, again, build that pipeline of women giving them that leadership skills. So she has programs called Build and elevate and for different parts of your career. She offered, they offered training. And then she really was on a mission to get more women on the podium at conferences at industry conferences. So the Christelle project just merged this year with a Janelle lay.
And they are just doing a lot of work to try and elevate women, in the visibility of women in the industry, and particularly at conferences, and to offer this kind of training to help more women get ahead. So, you know, again, one of the reasons why Hertelier exists is to report on this and to share these stories and also for women in the industry to learn, you know that this kind of thing is available. But you had asked me about entrepreneurship? Yes, I am seeing more women go into entrepreneurship. But I would say overall, you know, we, you know, as I've looked back on the 300 stories that we've written, I've noticed, you know, maybe five different trends or areas, themes that these kinds of stories have fallen into. One of which is entrepreneurship, and that, in particular, using technology to solve problems that they've noticed in the hospitality in the lodging space. So one woman who we profiled is called El rustique.
And she started this tipping platform. Her mother was a hotel housekeeper. Her personal background was in education, actually. And she was working at Stanford, and she was traveling a lot for work. And noticed that less and less people were carrying cash. And as a frequent traveler, she was like, That means people are going to be tipping less. And she went out and figured a way with the QR code technology to enable people to tip using their phone. And I think her business is maybe two years old. She's doing great, you know, she's partnered with a couple of different hotel chains. And, you know, it's just, that's one example of entrepreneurship. I mean, I've seen also in the food and beverage space, a woman called Martina Robinson, who we profiled who started the first champagne brand out of Brooklyn, New York, but it's French champagne. She cleverly has branded it. The Stuyvesant champagne, she's from Bed Stuy. And she's, you know, got her product in hotels now. So it is really a fun, you know, range that you see and so impressed with how clever women are and how, how they are willing to be so entrepreneurial, as you noted, yeah.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 19:09
Well, I'd love to have on my list talking about women using technology in the hospitality and tourism industry. And so you already mentioned that with tip right, which, when you told me about that, I thought that is such a brilliant awareness to have and then to be able to use technology to solve that. I wouldn't have thought about that. I have noticed when I've traveled that I don't often have cash when I'm in the room. And then I'm thinking, well, are people still tipping the way they used to? How does that work? And like I again, like I had the awareness but I actually didn't go past that. And when you mentioned that I thought, oh my gosh, that's such a brilliant idea for someone to you know, see that gap and step in and find a way to
19:56
create that. Yeah, she would be a great guest on your show actually because Tell her mom was a hotel housekeeper and she talks about how when she was a child, and her mom got a tip or you know, had a good day of tips that, you know, she would treat her brother and her to a happy meal at McDonald's and like, this is a really vivid childhood memory of hers. And yeah, and like tip Riley, her company is doing really well. And she Yeah, I just I'm really rooting for her. I really hope she gets into a lot of hotels with this technology, because I think she has other visions, bigger visions for people who they consider people who don't maybe have a bank account, the underbanked and she has a lot of ideas on how to create access for hourly workers and people like that to have the kind of banking abilities that you and I take for granted.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 20:56
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Another person. I know that we both know Jessica Blotter. She started as a kind traveler and the kind hotels I'm in. I would love to hear. I know that someone that you have focused on with her Tellier? You know, how that technology is changing things in the space of the hospitality industry?
21:23
Yeah, I mean, her whole mission of, you know, doing well and doing good. It just really resonates. And, yes, she basically created an online travel agency, so a competitor to your booking.com, or, you know, Expedia that basically has the charity component built in, I mean, the brilliance is in the simplicity of it. And she's got a ton of partners. I mean, I know she was on your show, so she probably spoke more eloquently than I am about the mission of her business and, and how you know, that she's done so well. And she's growing. And, and just, you know, also, I think the great thing about con travelers is just how the storytelling of eating to each destination is really built into her site. And she raises awareness for so many different causes that people might not have known about. So to me that I mean, you had a long chat with her. So is that something that resonated with you?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 22:29
Yeah, no. And what I was just thinking, though, between both of these two examples of women in this space, is this mission driven. And this like deep personal connection and experience that becomes this thing that serves communities, which I think I mean, I spend a lot of time obviously talking with women in the UN about their missions and visions and passions. So it seems to me they often have this deep personal investment in the thing that they are creating. I don't know if that's unique to women or not, but I feel like it, it becomes like you said, storytelling is such a huge part of being a kind traveler. And it only really exists because it's coming from this space, that this emotion and this experience that Jessica had, if she hadn't had that kind traveler could maybe exist, but it wouldn't exist in the same way. Have you seen that with some of the other women that are either, you know, using the technology aspect, or just in general of how they show up in the hospitality space?
23:39
Yeah, you know, Jessica definitely strikes me as one of those. Certainly, in the sustainability area. A lot of women are very passionate, they've started consultants and consultancies. And, you know, they're really trying to help the industry and the world, you know, because to allow for travel to be, you know, responsible and meaningful and also, you know, not something that's going to ruin our planet. So, yeah, I mean, I think when I think of sustainability, I think of a woman we interviewed called Sue Williams, who is the General Manager of Whatley Manor, which is a five star resort in the Cotswolds, and she's really proven that you can have sustainable luxury. And she's just been on a mission to measure everything and her whole thing is that you know, what gets measured gets done.
And she The other thing that's great about Su and I think you could say this of women in general is that she has shared everything that she's learned so she you know, she was recognized as having the most sustainable hotel In the UK, but everything that she has learned and everything that she's done at that hotel, she is openly shared with the industry. And she is trying to help other hotels be as sustainable as she is at Wiley Manor. So I think that's a great example of how women are conscious of helping others and helping elevate everyone in the industry and this idea that, you know, there is abundance, it's not, not the idea of having it as a sort of a competitive advantage. It's something to share.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 25:41
Yeah, I think that's one of the, I mean, the most impactful things for me to have witnessed that amongst the people I've talked to as well, I feel like that is a true statement that I've witnessed that if we've solved a problem, you know, taken down a barrier, we don't want to, like put it in place for the person behind us that we're like, No, we've taken care of that. Here's how you navigate this, here's how you can bring this into your business. Because, again, like if your goal is to create this impact or create equality or to have, you know, environmental impact, you don't just want it for you and your business. You want it on a larger scale. So it doesn't make sense not to share that knowledge. And I think that's a very different paradigm in the workspace. And I think that a lot of people have grappled with that because technically or not, technically, traditionally, we're kind of territorial about knowledge. And we are kind of territorial about success. And I feel like that has really been shifting in the recent years as well, that it isn't this all or nothing all for one mentality that we're seeing.
26:55
Yeah, definitely. I've I feel like in general, that is another one of the observations that I've made about women in the industry is that they do want to lift each other up, in fact, just this year, a few months ago, there and her Tellier as part of this is that we've a woman by the name of Rachel Humphrey, has kind of coordinated the caselle project and all these different organizations. In fact, there's 23, I think, now different women's organizations within the lodging and hospitality sector that created this women in hospitality Leadership Alliance. And it's, you know, literally just keeping in touch once a month, or once a quarter by email, and then, you know, once a quarter trying to meet on a zoom, and just share ideas and brainstorm about how to just keep everything moving forward and create more gender equality. I mean, because that's really the big goal.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 28:07
Yeah, I have also seen, I mean, I have, in the past two years, become a part of countless communities of women, both in tourism and entrepreneurial and business space. And it's great to be able to, you know, brainstorm all these ideas. And like you said, the end goal is really keeping progress going and keeping people moving forward. And once you like, set that as a collective, it's so much easier to just move that direction. And I think it's been great to be a part of that wave over the past few years. I would really love to talk about one thing that has come up for me recently, I just actually had been interviewed on the question of how do we attract and keep women in this industry. And you kind of alluded to this earlier talking about the hospitality industry not really being paired well with women's responsibilities. And I think when we start to have this conversation, we realize pretty quickly, there's larger cultural and systemic issues that we are battling. But if we're going to break it down and think about how we can attract more women into leadership roles and into this industry in general, what do you think that takes? What do we have to navigate?
29:31
Yeah, that's the topic of a story that's actually gonna come out today. But basically, flexibility is a key thing. You know, we're seeing this again, across many industries, but since the pandemic when people were forced to work from home, and the fact that technology has enabled people to do their jobs from anywhere, you know, it's just been incredible going to see that shift. And I think where you wouldn't have necessarily seen, you know, certain jobs that the industry in general was resistant to any kind of flexibility. Now, they're open to it. And that's partly due to the fact that there's a labor shortage. And there's a lot of pressure on hotels to just get people to have people to work, various jobs. But whatever the reasons, you know, the result is that there is more flexibility available to any hotel workers. And this makes it more attractive to women.
So for example, we wrote a story about a really inspiring woman called Lisa Williams, who's the Executive housekeeper of the grand which is a five star hotel in New York, which is kind of Northern England, there are two universities in York. And she realized that through technology, she could use this app that's called indeed flex, which is kind of like, if you were, you know, it's sort of like an Uber, but for people, for employees. And so she's been able to utilize this technology to offer shifts and actually shifts at any time. So whatever time you want to work, if they need people you can work and to give people this kind of flexibility. So she realizes that there were women who wanted to drop their kids off at school and be able to pick them up, and maybe they just wanted to work a four hour shift. She said it has, you know, initially it doubled her administrative work, but that it's just worked amazingly well, because the other thing is that what she realized is that hotel guests, and I guess everyone's known this for ages, but never really thought about a way to accommodate for it is that hotel guests arrive all throughout the day.
And so now she has housekeepers that are also arriving all throughout the day. So actually, people are much more efficient, because she'll have fresh, you know, workers that are, you know, Husky housekeeping is very physically demanding. And, you know, now she's got fresh housekeepers all day long. It's worked great. So yeah, I think that in general, also in roles, like sales and accounting and things where you're not guest facing, there's definitely way more flexibility now than pre pandemic. And, it'll probably continue at that pace. Now, of course, in hotels, there's a lot of guest-facing jobs. And, you know, there's not much flexibility in that. But we'll see, you know, it could just be that there's, there's more availability of shorter shifts, and that I think, would have a huge impact. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 32:53
the hotel properties that I was touring in Switzerland, I mentioned this, but we were talking a lot about it, because primarily their staff are women and the customers they serve are as well. So they have a lot of conversations about how to meet the needs of women in both aspects of that exchange. And flexibility was one of the huge things and they said that initially there was a lot of resistance to some kind of easing into flexibility. But once they found out, they found they were turning away great employees, because they couldn't fit the box that they needed them to fit into. So if they needed someone to work at that hotel front desk, from nine to five, and then someone to work from four to 10, Monday through Friday, or Thursday through Sunday, whatever it was like they had a rigid schedule that they were trying to fill, and they would find they would have great employees that would come in and interview but they really couldn't work Fridays, or they really needed to be mornings because they were going to school or you know, all these different things that were impacting them being able to hire the employee they wanted and they realized once they created flexibility, they had better employees.
So they had people that were working, you know, three quarters of the time so that they could always have their evenings and weekends off with their children or go to graduate school or whatever other thing that they might need as a human to exist versus just as an employee to exist. Then also the people once they were hired into those positions with the acknowledgment of that need for flexibility, they showed up in a different way. So they were more loyal and committed to their job and committed to the customers and you know, they had better energy overall with how they were interacting and engaging. And I think I hope that perhaps this will be something that we'll see as a shift because as you said, guests are showing up at all. Oh hours. And it doesn't mean that we need to have really rigid times that we are showing up to serve them that we are really flexible.
35:11
Yeah, it's definitely a trend that I think is here to stay if there is a hotel here in London. I haven't written about it yet, but they've gone to afford a work week. It's called the landmark. Yeah. So and in fact, there's in the UK, they're doing this massive study across many industries of how the four day workweek is going and, and it's like you said, people bring a different energy to the workplace, because, you know, they're just, I think, more focused, and then also more focused on the fact that they'll have three days off. And I think I saw a study or an article saying that actually, what people do with that extra day off is people are sleeping more, which is another story that we're working on that I haven't published yet, but just this idea of the importance of sleep and self care. That's another thing that the hotel companies have talked to me about, in terms of, you know, perks that matter to their employees is like, how can the company help people live better, more healthy, fuller lives? And, you know, self care as part of that?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 36:27
Yeah, that reminded me of I prior to, or not prior to, part of my experience in my career has been working in event planning. And so I would witness the hotel staff that's welcoming me and my event, right, and they're on their game, and they're ready to host me, and we're juggling all these things to make my event happen. And at the end of the four days, I collapsed, because we just did this huge thing. And I'm so grateful it's done for another year. And then I look at the next day, like, as I'm leaving this team welcoming in their next event, and they're doing it all over again. And you just think, how on earth can you sustain a level of energy and finesse and, and do it? I mean, it's incredibly intense mental work and physical work? Because you're on your feet, often from 6am till 11pm. If you have evening parties, and yeah, I again, I think just looking at, like you said, what? How do we create more wellbeing for our employees that allow them to do the job that we wish for them to do?
37:36
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it is a career, if you're on property, that requires a lot of, you know, energy and enthusiasm. And but people thrive on that, you know, one of the questions that we often ask in our interviews is, do you think hospitality? is a gene? Or is it like, like that you're born with it? Or that you it's something that can be trained and taught? And it's interesting to see the answers, I'd say I, like 75% of the people say, actually, hospitality is something that you're born with. But there are people who feel that it can be trained. And I think it's this idea that overrides ideas that if you have a person that's very empathetic, that can, you know, put themselves in someone else's shoes that they ended up being very good at working in hospitality.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 38:33
Yeah, I think that this kind of comes back to a lot of times we talk about how many women are in the tourism industry and the hospitality industry because of the, their, their nurturing, instinctively nurturing nature, or gathering of community or creating safe spaces, like all these things that that we may do instinctively really lend themselves to this industry. And so maybe some of that can't be taught. However, I think you can always learn to execute a list of actions that create an outcome. So yeah, there's such an interesting dynamic in the people that maybe are drawn to this and why they're drawn to it.
39:16
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 39:18
Yeah. And I think also it says it speaks to especially over the past few years, the way that people stand with it, or stick with it, because if it is so much a part of who you are, you really feel you can't wait, walk away from it. And I think that is also really interesting, because you've had to sacrifice a lot to stay in both the tourism and hospitality industries in the last two years. And, and that that does have to be, I think, a part of your being I think we've maybe seen the people who were doing it as a profession to other avenues, but people who are doing it as an extension of self are still here trying to figure out how we can't keep doing it.
40:01
Yeah, I mean, certainly the industry lost people in the pandemic to other industries. And I've heard anecdotally that when they're starting, they see people coming back because they miss the energy of working in the hotel business. And, you know, like you said, all these interactions that you have, and the fact that you can be, you know, your shift could just go by really quickly, because it's just super busy. And next thing, you know, it's, it's over. So and the camaraderie I think, working in a hotel, there's a lot of community and camaraderie that people really thrive off of.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 40:43
Yeah, I spent a summer working outside of well, both out of Yellowstone Park and Glacier Park, different summers, but the one I worked at a small in outside of glacier, and yeah, that camaraderie that you were speaking of like, there's definitely something about getting through a big season or a big push. And in that instance, in particular, we lived in the middle of nowhere. So the town where the inn was had maybe 20, full time residents. So like, you were there to be there, and there was no escaping it. And the, like, closest town for groceries was 45 minutes to an hour away. And yeah, there's like there's a bond that those of us that survived. That's a word that we all carry with us. But there was such a great energy of doing it together. And I do think that could be something that is very addicting, but also you'd like you said, it's, it's you really do thrive in that, that energy? And I think that's kind of unique to that space.
41:50
Yeah, yeah. And as women, you know, and people in general, move up the ranks, of course, the challenges are different. And, you know, it becomes more about managing big businesses. And, and I do think that that's also what is really attractive about hospitality is that you can, you know, start at one job, and then you keep moving up and you get challenged throughout your career, but then you can you end up running these big multimillion dollar businesses that have all kinds of different, you know, Facilities and Operations that you have to oversee.
And it turns out, you know, women are doing really well with that. You know, one of the stories we wrote about was about a woman who actually is a friend of mine. We went to college together, but her name is Abby Murtaugh, and she is the GM of the Arizona Biltmore. And she took that property over, after it was coming off of a $100 million renovation. So it's like, these are really big businesses with you know, she manages several 100 employees. And they have, you know, a giant pool and, you know, I think about five or six restaurants and a lot of meeting space, and they do big conventions, and parties and events and that kind of thing. So, you know, it's really, you end up running very big, complex businesses and women are just really good at this kind of multitasking, really looking at the data and making decisions based on that. And guiding, you know, the hospitality, nature of it with, you know, this idea, this underlying of caring so, yeah, it's just been really interesting.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:47
Yeah. Well, throughout the season, I've been asking my guests what the change is that you want to be a part of creating in the industry and even really in the world. For you? What is that driving force? What is that change that you want to be a part of?
44:06
Really, this idea that representation matters, and this is how people get inspired. So the whole purpose of Hertelier is to amplify these stories, and just to let you know who, let's say, you know, Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk is like the women that are starting to lead these hotel companies. I would like to know their names and have young women be inspired by Stephanie Lennart, who's the president of Marriott. And, you know, we're Hilda Perez Alvarado, who's the head of, you know, all the hotel real estate at JLL. So, just this idea of creating these really, you know, personalities around these women so that they're well known. And then just sharing the stories that will impact women at all stages of their career to inspire them. So that's a change I want to be a part of.
And I think her ateliers are definitely on the way to doing that and we built a strong community on LinkedIn. And if your listeners are at all interested in this kind of peek behind the scenes of the hotel business, they should follow us on LinkedIn. We're almost at 4000 followers, which is quite a lot, considering we only started a year and a half ago. So that's something I'm really proud of. And yeah, actually, also, we have a weekly newsletter, which women can, or anyone can subscribe to. Actually, the other surprising thing about our Atelier, and I think this is a topic we haven't touched on yet, but this idea of ally ship, and that men are super into helping women rise up the ranks as well and very interested in the content that we're putting out. And actually, I mean, at one point I checked in like, 40% of our readers were men. Yeah. So I think it's just this idea of, of amplifying the stories, the voices of, of women in the industry.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 46:21
Yeah, thank you. And thank you for mentioning that. Because I think that that's something that I have found really interesting too is I when I check my stats and things is seeing how many men are listening to solo travel podcast, and the conversations I've had, and that sharing these stories is not just sharing them for women, the men are listening and and questioning how they can be a part of this rise as well. And so I think it's really important. And when we are often focusing so much on women, people think that that means that we're in some way trying to exclude men from the conversation, but I think that that is not the case that yeah, definitely
47:05
not. And see, yeah, just a lot of ally ships. And we're covering more of that and interviewing men about, you know, Ally ship and what that means to them and, and why they're so excited to inspire women, whether they're fathers or brothers or, you know, it's, that's the world we live in. And I think men are definitely on board.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 47:29
Yeah. Well, I appreciate it so much. Your time today, Emily, this has been such a great conversation. I think that there's so many different ways that people can now start to look at their own travel experiences. How people can think creatively about how to be a part of this industry, and also just how to see, you know, one another stories and ask how we can support one another. So I hope that people are inspired. Before we end the conversation, if there are any last notes about how people can be involved in supporting the storytelling and the work that you're doing it Hertelier I'd love to give you the space to do that. And then we have a few rapid fire questions to end this conversation.
48:18
Yeah, definitely follow us on LinkedIn. Just look for her Hertelier, which is h e r t l i e r, www.hertelier.com. And we're also on Instagram. And then I started mentioning it and then I think I actually cut myself off. But I do a weekly newsletter on a Sunday that basically rounds up hospitality news from the week with a feminist slant. And yeah, so just in that space covering, you know, different news stories that affect women in business. And then, of course, what we've written about and Hertelier. So it's a great way to just kind of keep up with what we're publishing on the site, but also a handy way to just keep up with industry news as well. So I hope people will subscribe to it and it's totally free. And we have a very high open rate. So I'm proud of that because that means people like it. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:21
Well, I have really appreciated it. I feel like every time I open something up and read it, I feel like I walk away with something new or just, you know, another thread of conversation for me to explore. So I have loved that LinkedIn. You mentioned that that's what brought us together. So the magic of connection there. I really appreciate it.
49:45
That was great.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:46
Well, we already kind of talked about this, but the first rapid fire question is what are you reading right now?
49:52
Oh, yeah, I'm happy to talk about this because I am loving this book. It's called The One Woman lead. It's by Julia Boorstin and it's just she's interviewed, I think over 100 women that are specifically in the startup space. And she talks about how less than 2% of all VC venture capital funding goes to women. So she's focusing on these women who are in those 2%. Because they're obviously outstanding. And what it's, you know, why, why, what have they done, that they've been successful in this space that's so rare for women to be successful? And there are just so many lessons in that book already. And I'm only halfway through it. So definitely check that out.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:44
Yeah, I'll leave that in the show notes. I've heard her on a few podcasts promoting the book recently. And it's very good. I need to take the time to read the whole thing. But it's been great. Just to hear her talking about the book, she's been promoting it. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
51:03
Interesting question. What is always in my suitcase, or backpack when I travel? Well, I'll give you my travel tip. And this is how I take my passports. I always put them in a Ziploc bag and put that in my bag or my backpack, because then it's easy to find. And then you just like not spending your time in the airport where you're constantly taking the thing out and putting it back in. So that's my tip: put all your passports if you're traveling with your family, or on your own whatever, and something easy to grab?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 51:41
Yeah, um, let's see, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there. Where is the place that you would like to sojourn?
51:53
Oh, where is the place I would like to sojourn. There are so many places that I still want to see in the world. I mean, we moved to London, and 12 years ago from New York. And since then, we've been blessed to be able to travel all around Europe, and even parts of Asia, because it's easier to get to from here. I would say there's no place that I don't want to go right now. Well, there's a few places. But not because I'm not interested in that country. It's just because there's unrest in the world. But I mean, at the moment, I'm interested in going skiing over Christmas. That's what I'm looking at. I can't say I have some lofty, particular place. But we try to travel regularly. I just last two weeks I was in France and in Belgium, and in Belgium was a country actually, despite it being so close to London had been to before and I went with my son. And we did an E bike trip through Flanders, which is part of Belgium or they speak Dutch, and is beautiful. Your bikes are amazing. And I highly recommend that.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:12
Yeah, I just got to experience an E bike for the first time when I was in Switzerland. And I would love to do it in a place where I wasn't constantly going either up or
53:23
I would love it. Belgium is the place because it is literally flat. The only time you have to go on a hill is if you're on an overpass of a highway or something. But the other fun fact is that they have 7500 miles so 7500 miles of bike trails and they keep them incredibly well maintained. I mean, Belgium is one of these countries. It must be one of the best voted, always one of the best places to live in the world because it's just like the culture, the food. It's just really beautiful. There's so much countryside right near the cities. So there's always the opportunity to enjoy nature, which I thought it just really impressed me plus there's tons of history, like in Bruges and Ghent was a beautiful city. I was just really blown away by Belgium. It's amazing.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:19
Thank you. What is something that you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
54:27
Chocolate in Belgium? Good. Yeah, I guess because I just came back from there. Yeah, I just was really impressed with the food. The beer. I mean, I'm not much for beer. But, you know, one night we actually stayed in a brewery in a place called methylene, which is a small city in Belgium. And they brew this beer. It's kind of bright, like a light yellow like us. Sun colored yellow and who serves it really cold. It's so refreshing. Yeah, I would say, I don't even remember what you asked me when I started just talking about the food that you ate. But that's okay. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, the food was just great. I think he actually has more to say about Belgium but basically they have more Michelin star restaurants per capita and in Belgium than any other country I learned about when I was there. Wow, I guess that's the beauty of travel is it is like you go to a place and you can learn all this stuff about how they live, and what their life is like. And I just find that so inspiring.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 55:45
Yeah, to become so deeply connected to a place that you maybe hadn't really even noticed that you didn't know it existed, but it just wasn't a place that held any importance to you. And then you have that connection, and it becomes a part of your story, which is Yeah, I think what is really magical chocolate
56:01
and beer, and hopefully Belgium.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 56:06
If you could take an adventure with one person fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
56:14
Yeah, I heard you ask these questions to other people, and I didn't prepare them for myself. Who am I? You know what? I'm gonna go with Eleanor Roosevelt. I was just reading about her. And she just really inspired me as this kind of interesting trailblazing woman in a time where women, you know, she had no, there was no one showing her the way. So I think I'm gonna go with Eleanor Roosevelt. Thank you.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 56:47
And the last one, obviously, we both love to bring attention to women doing amazing things in the industry. Who is one woman you admire and would like to recognize in this space?
57:02
I'm going to say my partner Nancy Mendelssohn, who helps me with Hertelier, she actually came up with the name for the site. So she's been with me working on the site, since before it launched, and we worked together at Lowe's, many years ago. She was my boss there. So she continues to inspire me, she contributes to the site with a weekly column, a weekly advice column called Unpack it with Nancy, which is one of the most popular columns on the site. She's got great advice. She's worked in the travel space, she worked in media and publishing. She produces TV shows, she's just an incredible woman, who I think a lot of people really resonate with the advice that she shares every week from her career in her life. So, Nancy,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:00
Thank you. Thank you for honoring her in this space. Thank you so much for joining me, it's always nice to connect with a kindred spirit who has a similar mission to amplify the voices of women. I really hope people learned a lot and that they check out Hertelier and learn about the women that you are telling their stories as well.
58:23
Thank you, Christine. I really enjoyed chatting with you. I love your podcasts and the community that you've built. And I look forward to hearing more of your episodes and I'm so excited for you that you've done 100 And that you're, you know, each season seems to get more interesting and more exciting, so congrats to you. And thank you for having me.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:48
Thank you for listening to the Soul of Travel. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you love this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe, rate the podcast and share the episodes that inspire you with others. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome.
I am so happy you are here. You can find all the ways you can be a part of the Soul of Travel and Lotus Sojourns Community at www.Lotussojourns.com. Here you can learn more about the Soul of Travel and my guests.
You can see details about the transformational sojourns. I guide women, as well as my book Sojourn which offers an opportunity to explore your heart mind in the world through the pages of books specially selected to create any journey. I'm all about community and would love to connect.
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