Episode 107 - Jen Ruiz, Jen On A Jet Plane

Travel

Dec 14

There is a pleasure to be found in traveling and in taking on new adventures which is unmatched. The benefits of traveling extend beyond making memories and meeting new people. Travel gives you opportunities to try new things and and new experiences.

Travel gives us new experiences, memories, and can even aid in our journey towards self-discovery. Travel is an excellent way to break monotony and rekindle our love for life. Traveling is a great way to break away from the stresses and obligations of daily life, offering newness and changes in the form of new people, sights, and experiences.

Escape travel has the ability to show you another way to live, and can teach you new ways of unwinding, pampering, and relaxing in some of the finest, poshest settings on Earth. Traveling is about learning a lot about the world, allowing you to meet new people, mix with cultures that you might not have had a chance at back home.

Christine’s guest today is Jen Ruiz.

Jen is also an award winning travel journalist with bylines and outlets like afar photos, travel, insider Travel and Leisure and Matador network. She has also spoken at events like the New York Times travel show, Fin Con and Women in Travel Summit. Jen documents her adventures on her website Jen on a jet plane and has over 290,000 social media followers.

Her travel memoir, 12 Trips in 12 Months, is signed to Blackstone publishing and is expected to release in fall of 2023.

In this conversation, Jen talks about her upcoming book and how her plan to take 12 trips in 12 months really set her off on this path, and how traveling truly changes the course of her life. She shares about her transition from lawyer to full time travel blogger and author and what it takes to bring these dreams to life, not just the beautiful Instagram worthy moments, but the relentless tenacity it takes to pursue this career.

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Jen Ruiz.

In this episode, Christine and Jen discuss:

The power of travel as an escape from your life.
What is the difference between who we are and what we are doing?
The push and pull of being Latino and being American
How do we start to integrate all these things?
How can we make it so that you can celebrate the differences?
Why people are not their government and why they are their government
Why Jen is drawn to the authenticity of social media posts

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

To learn more about Jen and Jen On A Jet Plane, head over to www.jenonajetplane.com

Follow Jen on Instagram

Join me for my Women’s Wilderness and Yoga Retreat in Alaska in March 2023!

We’ll be traveling 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle to stay at Arctic Hive, owned by my friend Mollie Busby and her husband Sean. This boutique property nestled in the Brooks Range is way off the beaten path and also off grid. We’ll stay in beautiful cabins built by hand by our hosts, practice yoga in their yoga dome lovingly referred to as The Hive, with gorgeous views of the surrounding nature.

We’ll explore the wilderness by snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice and vegan meals all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful northern lights that like to show off their magic this time of year.

I only have 6 spaces for this unique adventure and a few are already taken. Hop over to the Lotus Sojourns website to book yours today.

Please share this experience with anyone you know would love this restorative adventure.

Want to learn more, you can listen to my Soul of Travel conversation, episode 67 with Mollie Busby

Visit www.lotussojourns.com/journeys to join this unique travel experience today.

To watch this interview on YouTube HERE.

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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of this year’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.

About the Soul Of Travel Podcast

Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

These conversations are meant to educate, inspire and create community. They are directed to new travelers and seasoned travelers, as well as industry professionals and those who are curious about a career in travel.

If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Jen Ruiz (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

people , travel , feel , life , book , world , women , conversation , create , experience , share , person , hear , puerto rico , moment , love , read , year , post

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.

Jen Ruiz is a lawyer turned full time travel blogger and author. She is a five time Amazon Best Seller, two time readers favorite award winner and three time TEDx speaker. She has been featured by the Washington Post, Forbes and ABC News. Jen is also an award winning travel journalist with bylines and outlets like afar photos, travel, insider Travel and Leisure and Matador network.

She has also spoken at events like the New York Times travel show, Fin Con and Women in Travel Summit. Jen documents her adventures on her website Jen on a jet plane and has over 290,000 social media followers. Her travel memoir 12 trips in 12 months is signed to Blackstone publishing and is expected to release in fall of 2023. In our conversation, Jen talks about her upcoming book and how her plan to take 12 trips in 12 months really set her off on this path, and how traveling truly changes the course of her life. She shares about her transition from lawyer to full time travel blogger and author and what it takes to bring these dreams to life, not just the beautiful Instagram worthy moments, but the relentless tenacity it takes to pursue this career.

She also shares how her Latina heritage has influenced who she is as a travel writer, and also shares one of her most recent memorable experiences and how she hopes to create an impact with her writing. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Jen Ruiz. Welcome to soul of travel podcast, I am so excited to be bringing Jen Ruiz to the show today. She is an award winning travel journalist, travel blogger lawyer turned full time travel blogger, which is an exciting part of her journey that will dive into as well as an author and she has a new book going through the process and coming out this fall. So I can't wait to hear about all of these things. Jen, welcome to Soul of Travel.

03:48

Thank you for having me Christine.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 03:50

Thank you. I'm so grateful that we got to meet for a brief moment at the Wits summit in Kansas this year. It's always fun to have, like that personal connection when we hop onto these zoom calls. I really appreciated it because I got to absorb some of your in person energy, which made me even more excited for our conversation and knowing that you're going to be able to share that with our listeners today.

04:15

Oh, absolutely. My favorite part of those conferences is connected with the people we see online. Yeah.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:22

Well, to get started, would you just take a moment to introduce yourself briefly and let our listeners know who they're hearing from?

04:29

Absolutely. My name is Jen Reese and the solo female traveler behind Jen on a jet plane. I am, as you mentioned, a lawyer and full time travel blogger and author. I have five Amazon best selling books and my memoir is coming out next fall 12 trips in 12 months with Blackstone publishing. And I've given three TEDx talks and have by lines in places like photos, The Washington Post and Matador Network.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:55

Thank you so much. You said that in like one sentence but it's So many amazing things. So I have loved watching your journey since I found you. And actually, I think a mutual friend told me I needed to start following you. So I've been following you for a little bit of time. But it's been so great watching all of the moving pieces of your work and kind of just being so excited by and also sometimes like trying to understand how you possibly can be doing all of the things that you are doing, which we're going to definitely dive into through the course of this conversation. I think in order to let our listeners who are travelers get to know you a little bit better, I'd love to start by talking about your book that you mentioned, that's coming out next fall 12 trips in 12 months, because I think that's probably going to give us a really good idea about how that journey shaped your life and ended up kind of shifting the trajectory of your life and taking you on this crazy path of becoming who you are today.

06:00

Absolutely. And I hope that it's a challenge that can change the trajectory of a lot of people's lives. So for me, the year before my 30th birthday, I was panicked over approaching this big milestone birthday over having worked really hard and achieved professional accolades, but not really feeling like I've done anything personally for me. So I set out to take one trip a month while I was working full time. And this was something that I didn't know if it would be feasible, I didn't really know how I would make it happen. So I was learning as I went about points and Miles about, you know, finding affordable flights about traveling solo, and kind of working that out myself. And so by the end of the year, I actually surpassed my challenge, I almost doubled it, I took a total of 20 trips, I went swinging off the edge of the world in Ecuador, and volunteering with elephants in Thailand and into a volcano in Iceland, that just was so cool.

And so it really felt like I sent my 20s out with a bang. And I became so addicted to traveling and the feeling that I thought when I traveled because that was really it more than anything. I feel like a lot of us, we live in a daily rut and we go through the motions, and we just kind of do what's expected of us but and we're always told, you know, live in the now quote unquote, but it's so hard to do that. And that's why so many people I think suffer from anxiety, depression, like our society really leans into being all out into the future or ruminating over the past. And actually living in the now is so difficult. It's easier said than done. And I found that travel was a magic way to make you live in the now because when you're dropped somewhere new, you have no choice but to take in new sights, new smells, new sounds like you are in the now you can't be thinking about anything other than what you're doing in that moment. And that feeling was so empowering.

It really felt like I was living. And so I decided after that year to quit my job. During that year, I had started teaching English online, that was part of how I was funding my travels. And so I knew that maybe I couldn't live in the US with that kind of salary, which was like $20 an hour, but I knew I could live somewhere else. And I could maybe try the Nomad life, which ended up not necessarily being for me.

It's hard to live out of a suitcase for a prolonged time and not be able to buy large souvenirs or decorate. And so when I made that switch, I didn't even really know what was happening. And this was such a different way than I had led my life up until then, where I had a one year plan, a five year plan, a 10 year plan, like everything prescribed, like I'm going to maybe become a judge one day, this is the ladder I have to like climb and all of these things. And so for the first time in my life, I tossed the plan aside, I said, let's see what happens. And now here I am four years later, and I can't believe some of the places that this decision has taken me and I'm really grateful that I actually took that leap and bet on myself and more so that I actually took the chance to see something different do something different versus feeling like I had to conform to what society expected of me.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 09:18

I loved how you described travel as kind of igniting your ability to be present. I think that is really where some of the most transformative power of travel lies. And I think we often don't notice that maybe unless we're reflecting on our travel experiences about where that came from. But I agree with you like you are, you are so in this immediate container. And I think part of that is because a lot of times when people travel they are trying to disconnect from their daily life. So they've already kind of cut that wire and then because your vacation or your time away is usually a short amount of time like maybe five days for 10 days, if you're lucky, you're really not thinking any further than that, which is not a normal state for us. Like normally we're like, Okay, what's on my calendar, I know I have these things, this has to be done. And so you've already really narrowed your focus just through the state of being where you are. And then like you've said, your, like, inner curiosities are kind of coming alive because of all these new things.

And so you're doing things that you aren't doing in your normal life. And you're, you're being so much more stimulated in a different way. And like you get to be more playful and curious. And you like you become, I say, usually much more outward facing than inward facing. And so all of those things become what I think makes travel so powerful. And like you said, so addicting, because like, once you realize that's the feeling you're getting, it's a little bit of like adrenaline or you know, like that, that stimulus that allows you to be here feels really nice, because you don't have to worry about the things on the other sides of that. Yeah, I feel like that's such a powerful awareness. So thank you for sharing that.

11:04

Absolutely. I hope everyone can experience it at some point. And I think it's even more amplified when you're traveling solo.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 11:11

Yeah. And then I was also thinking about, and this has been true of so many women, women I've talked to of being on a corporate journey, or a professional journey, or just being on the trajectory that our culture tells us of, you know, going through your academic career as a student, you know, checking off all these things, doing your extracurriculars applying for college, who do you want to be when you grow up? How are you going to make an impact? Like, here's your, like you said, your one year plan, your five year plan, your 10 year plan, and some people can't stick to that, which Oh, my gosh, it's so fair, they they shouldn't it's so unrealistic. And then there's those of us that like, just keep like dredging through and marching up that ladder, and you get to wherever, you know, the top or this point where you take a breath, and you look around and you're like, I don't even know what I've created. I don't know who I've become in it. And yet, you've already dedicated so much time to becoming that person. How were you able to let go of that house like, seems like that would be such a terrifying moment.

12:21

It is. And every time I look at my student loans, I have that thought, again. Because I actually graduated debt free from undergrad and it was law school where most of my debt came from, even with a scholarship. And so it did feel like I am financially invested. It felt not just that, but like, this was my identity and what I had to show for all the work I put in, up until then, when I told people I was a lawyer, I would immediately get, you know, a sense of respect for who your lawyer was.

Oh, goodness, okay. And then everybody would be really impressed by me. And now, I tell people, I'm a travel writer, and they're like, do you actually make money doing that? And it just feels very different than having that kind of prestigious, well respected career. But I'm happy, I'm happy with what I'm doing and unhappy with the path I've chosen. And there was a point where I looked around the different law firms at different atmospheres and you know, what I was doing, and then I saw other people that felt compelled to stick to the path because they were on it. And so because of that they were there decades later, just kind of going through the motions. You know, there came a point where I was looking to quit, and I found that my colleagues were actually very supportive of me. So I had one colleague who called me into her office, and she's, like, I hear you're thinking about quitting, run, run as fast as you can. And, you know, it was something like that, where it just gave me perspective of knowing that I could stick to this path, or I could take a risk. And I did always feel like law was and I hate to put it in this way.

But I thought it was a solid fallback plan for me, like I thought, worst case scenario, I still have to, you know, I have my law degrees and Bart in two different states, I have a federal license, I can go back and get a job at any kind of paper pushing law firm that you know, will stuck your soul kind of thing. That's an easy find. They have those everywhere. And so I knew that if I wanted to, I could go back to practice law again. Even now that I've been inactive for four years, I still get offers to practice law. And I'm like, I don't think you understand I'm not a traveling lawyer. Like I'm not doing anything law anymore. And that's been a hard pill for most people to swallow because they think I'm just transitioning to travel, a law of some sort of digital law or something different.

But I just wanted to do something else. And I realized now, in retrospect, that actually it was storytelling, public speaking, being able to make a difference that that was what called me to law in the first place. You know, it's why I love being in the trial setting, not necessarily you know, Doing motions or anything like that. I like to get up in front of an audience and be like, let me tell you the story of what happened in this case. And by the time we're done, you're gonna see it my way. And that was what was most appealing to me. And so it is this core skill set that I've had my whole life. And I just didn't realize because so many people tell you to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. And so I just fit my skill set. And the password was where it best fit, you know, that you don't really talk to many people as a doctor says this engineer. But it's it wasn't, that wasn't law that I loved it was it was those things. And now I can really fully express that in a way where I still feel like I do meaningful work, I feel like I bring small businesses to the limelight that they wouldn't get featured otherwise, if it wasn't for me being able to give them that platform. And I really feel like it's an honor to be able to do what I do

Christine Winebrenner Irick 15:53

beautiful awareness to be able to see what you loved and how you can take that and move it into any different avenue because I think most of us don't have that ability to separate different aspects of things from what we're doing and see that what is who we are and what is the difference between who we are and what we're doing. And I think that I think it could be a very powerful exercise for anybody listening, even if you love your job to say, what are the things about it that I love?'' And I think those are the things that many of us in the travel industry have had to reflect upon over the past three years. Because if we didn't latch on to those things that are a part of who we are and how we love to show up in the world, we wouldn't still be sitting here being able to have these conversations in this industry. Because that's why, I guess, calling now is so critical to being able to keep momentum when things are difficult.

17:00

And things have been difficult. We've all been through right over the last few years, but especially the travel industry, because everything was shut down. Nobody was traveling, even talking about traveling, they were irresponsible. And so I do believe that the people who have pivoted and have managed to keep going, it's because they really have a love for travel. And I agree, I think there'll be a great exercise for anyone thinking, what might a future move look like for me?

Christine Winebrenner Irick 17:26

Well, when you're talking about identity, and understanding who we are, I think this is one of the things that I've enjoyed so much following the writing that you do. And for me, because I have had my own journeys of really trying to understand who I am and what that means in the storytelling that I'm creating in the messaging that I want to offer. For you. I've really embraced watching you kind of at least on a social platform, embracing your Latina heritage and really bringing that part of your voice forward. And even seeing posts where you are questioning like, I'm not sure if this is my story to tell, or are people going to question who I am because I'm telling this story I really admire and have admired that. And I would love for you to share maybe a little bit about that part of your journey, why that's important, and maybe how that influences the way you tell stories and understanding people's identities and how all of the different parts of them become who they are and how important it is to represent that.

18:34

Absolutely. And it has been, it has been a process. So first to come. You know, I was born in Puerto Rico, I lived here till I was six. My mom put me in English speaking schools immediately. She was a teacher. So she worked at a private school, so I could get free tuition for me there. And that was how I learned to speak English because she desperately wanted me not to have an accent. So sometimes people tell me I have an accent. And I take that personally. And then also, you know, growing up in the States, I had a lot of people that looked down on me for being Puerto Rican. And so I was made to kind of assimilate and hide that and then now I find that as an adult, I've moved back to Puerto Rico. I've lived here full time for three years. And it's been really interesting because now I get hurt when people don't associate me as a Latina, right? Like sometimes I feel like I don't look a certain way. You know, my brother who is darker skinned, constantly, everybody assumes that he's Hispanic. He can't speak a lick of Spanish and doesn't know anything really about the history or culture. But just because he looks a certain way people automatically give him that validation and that check of like, okay, you pass the test. You are Hispanic. And for me, I'm white and I have white skin, but I'm 100% Puerto Rican I speak Spanish. I know a lot about this island. I know a lot about history. I know a lot about the businesses here, and it can be difficult to sometimes feel like I'm overlooked. have just because upon first glance, I look a certain way. I posted a picture today on my Instagram about diversity on a press trip. And as I was looking at the picture, the first thing that came to my mind is everybody's going to think I'm the one white person on this press trip.

Because I look, you know, just glaringly Kaspar white because I write a lot. So I'm inside, I'm like that not much sun. And so it has been a weird push and pull of the identity, you know, trying to look like trying to assimilate and then be a proud Latina and own that heritage. And it's been really difficult for me to find me to find me in the middle of all of that, and who is it that I am. And so, I love being American. I think that there's so many things that come with being American that neighboring islands don't have my powerful passport, the ability to learn and search online for anything, I want the ability to say anything I want, at any point in time, right? Like, there's so many things that I value about this imperfect nation that I think is founded on some really amazing ideals. And so it's human, and we're all trying to live up to these ideals. And America fails in a lot of ways. But I think more so than other countries. It's always trying, there's always that sense of people that want to make it better, that want to, you know, form a movement and I've seen a lot of that because I worked in public service. So I have a lot of respect for the nation and for the government. I know that people hate what they're like, not down with the government down with everybody. But I worked in the government. You know, I worked for a governor's office, I worked for a Senator, I worked for a judge for a year and a felony trial court. I love our judicial process. I love that you have a chance to, you know, be innocent until proven guilty.

And, you know, state your story. And I love the checks and balances. I think right now the Supreme Court's a bit of a hot mess, but I cringed a little bit when I've seen them overturn decisions and things like that, because it's anti what I was taught in the law, and it's anti what I know America stands for. And so I have a lot of idealism with regards to America. And I also recognize that here and the island, there's a lot of pushback against colonialism, and a lot of pushback against, you know, we want to be our own island. And it comes from a feeling of inferiority, it comes from a feeling that, you know, they've come, they've taken over our land, and now we are not allowed to thrive and be ourselves. You just have people coming in and exploiting us. And so it's really weird for me, because I'm, I see both sides, and I'm in between, and I'm kind of walking the line, and I see the benefits of being American as a woman as a Hispanic woman. And I also love being Puerto Rican, I see the richness of the culture and how, you know, rich have a history we have and really how much has gone into this island for hundreds of years. And in terms of, you know, Spaniards that have come to conquer the island and how that's translated into different architecture and traditions and a blending of cultures and music that's evolved. Like there's, it's a really dynamic place. And so I can't say that I have a set answer, except that every day I try to embrace who it is that I am, regardless of what that means, and not necessarily having changed for any one or the other. Yes, I'm Puerto Rican.

Yes, I know. I don't look like it to most people. Yes, I'd like America. And it's rare to be all of those things. Because any one of those things technically in either group kind of disqualifies you like if you want to be Puerto Rican, you have to be anti American. And if you want to be American, you have to assimilate, right, you have to blend. But I think the best part about America is the American dream. I know it is a dream. And I know it's again, not always perfect. But people come from all over the world with the goal of everybody starting from an even ground, everybody having equal access to opportunity. Not always easier said than done. But I do think that there are ideals in this country that I really admire. And then I've seen him play as part of the judicial system as part of the legal system. So it's really difficult for me to want that line. And it's difficult for me to feel like I'm not enough of one or the other at any point in time.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 24:25

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that I think. I think so many people are having that. That reflection upon themselves. Now, and I think because we're having so many conversations around intersectionality. And really, just I think, honestly admitting that we all have pieces, which I think I was thinking about the term of melting pot, that we all learned of what that's what made America great when we were children, right like this is what is makes this the land of opportunity that we're As melting pot, but then I also was thinking how conversely, like the the melting pot is also this idea of assimilation that we have to lose all of the pieces of who we are in order to fit in.

And really what makes us great is that we have all these pieces and that such a unique blend of cultures, if we could really embrace and fully like actually be all of those pieces instead of trying to become something that we're not which I feel like right now maybe we're on the cusp, I hope we're on the cusp of being able to explore what that means and what that could mean moving forward, if we can honor that in a different way than we have in the past. And, like, for me, I grew up in rural Montana on an Indian reservation, and my grandmother is a tribal elder. And so my part of that has been trying to, you know, bring in my European heritage with my indigenous heritage and, like, what does that mean? And, and, I mean, much like you, obviously, no one would look at me and say that I have any part of me that would be Native American or indigenous.

And yet, like at a cellular level, there's always been a part of me that has really been drawn to that, and wanted to identify with it, but was told I couldn't, and definitely you don't fit in any container in that space. And so I've had a lot of personal exploration, you know, for that, and, and so then, kind of like I was asking you then looking at that, and when you meet people that are straddling these lines, especially as you travel or like looking at how colonialism has created my life, essentially, like how do we start to integrate all these things, and then the opportunity that we have, as traveled storytellers, to bring some of this to life in our storytelling? I think, I don't know, that's what really starts to get me excited about the opportunity. And like you said, how you know, you can still have such an impact. There's so much room for this. But I think people haven't given credit in the past for being a travel content creator.

27:13

Absolutely. And it's something that I see here, I think, at first, maybe people are skeptical, and then I'm able to elevate them, I'm able to get them into these platforms. And they're like, wow, like, thank you so much. Like, it's, I don't know what they expect, when they see me or when I come to an event or an activity, they're probably like, Oh, my goodness, this girl. But then afterwards, I'm like, I'm here to support you. I'm here to help you, I want you to succeed. And I think we can all come from more of a place of understanding and wanting to lift each other up versus wanting to kind of label isolate, I think we can all do better when we realize like, I am 100% Puerto Rican, and I still don't feel you know, like, I'm accepted as one. And so we're getting to a point where more and more, we're blended, right, like people are marrying people from all over the world, people are living all over the world.

We don't live in a society where you can just isolate a place and be like, only the people who are 100% from this place can live here and everybody else stays out. It's just not how our society is going. And so how can we make it so that you can celebrate the differences so that you don't feel like there's an us versus them mentality, and so that everybody can succeed, especially because of their differences. One of the reasons I love the local businesses in Puerto Rico is because of how unique they are, how authentic they are, and how amazing they are. And that's why I want to share their stories. And I think it only surprises people. But there's always a level of gratitude afterwards of surprise and gratitude as well.

And I think that's the most rewarding part where maybe they think, like everybody else, that you're just there to get something from them. And then when you are able to provide something without any ulterior motive, it builds a rapport. It builds trust, and it builds, you know, a kind of kinship between people. And I think that that's the beauty of traveling everywhere that we go.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 29:11

Yeah, I agree. And I think that moment when people feel you seeing them, and appreciating them, like, that's, like it, that's that moment, I think, where we feel the most power from our connection and travel because like you've said, a lot of times it has been an equitable exchange. And so people don't know what defenses to give up or they're wondering what you want from them or how you're going to view them. And when people feel really seen and appreciated. It's very impactful. And I think that is where travel experiences can be so empowering because if you take the time to visit these small businesses to connect with the community Use to hear their story and just honor it. And even if it just goes past that exchange, or doesn't go past that exchange of hearing the story and just receiving it without anything else that receiving is so powerful also for the person telling their story, because often, or maybe people whose story doesn't seem important, and you taking the time to hear it, gives it importance and allows them to like embody that fully. I think

30:30

100% I had an instance just about two weeks ago, when I was coming back on a flight with an Uber driver, here in Puerto Rico, then I guess, again, he thought, okay, she's doing some tourist place. There's some tourist things. But I started talking because when you're by yourself, you talk to the drivers, you talk to the front desk clerks, you know, you talk to the bellhop, that's part of the things that I love most about traveling. And when he heard I was a writer, he was like, Oh, if you're a writer, like tell my story, and I just went on Twitter, just I was like, Okay, this is who he is.

This is why he's riding and driving the Ubers. And he's trying to establish connection after having lost his wife and his son, and oh, my goodness, that post blew up, people were like, wow, like, I want to start talking to my Uber drivers now, or I feel compelled to take out my headphones every now and then and be a person. And I think so many of us underestimate just the power of that, just the power of giving people a voice, and actually listening with curiosity and genuine interest in their lives. Everybody just wants to have somebody be a witness to their life. Otherwise, you know, it's kind of like if a tree falls in the forest, who hears that kind of thing. People want somebody to witness their lives. And, and that's part of what I'm able to do as a writer. And I, you know, I wasn't happy to do that, with that post that in a small way.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:45

Mm hmm. That's really beautiful, I think, yeah, everybody would just be so excited to see that. That witnessing, like you said, just to see the presence and then for him to be able to see other people engaging must have also been really powerful. Recently, I know you took a trip to Qatar, and for me, I've had some very powerful experiences traveling in the Middle East. And I think similar to what we're talking about here, I think why it was so powerful is because of my personal shift in perspective. And being in a region that was so clearly defined by the US media, this was very shortly after 911.

And then being there and experiencing something so different from what I expected from the way it was painted. From the stories I'd heard. I think this, again, is something that's so powerful that we get to do with our storytelling, I have really loved watching what you have created. Like, for me, because I have that internal memory, I can just like seeing the food or seeing some of the fabrics or the landscape, like my heart is already really connected to that. But I felt like you really shared some beautiful things. And I would love to hear maybe about one of your more memorable experiences from that journey and how some of the maybe the impact that you can create from that part of writing and sharing.

33:16

Yeah, that's been a difficult one, because I actually had a wonderful time in Qatar, and people want to fight me because of that, like, are just so angry people who have never been people who definitely have their own biases based off of the media based off of headlines, and there's no denying that there have been some very controversial headlines. But I could say the same thing about the US. You know, if there have been kids that have been kept in cages, we just reversed women's reproductive rights. We're tackling gay marriage next year, like, every time you look at, there's a smash shooting every single day. So every time you look at us headlines from outside of the US, most people are terrified. Most people think you're gonna get shot, you know, if you're darker skinned, that you're going to be targeted by the police. Like, there's so many conceptions that other people outside of the US have about the US. But we don't like to look at it that way. Because we'd like to think America is the greatest country on Earth.

And like I said, I love America. And I love the ideals that it stands for. But it definitely has its problems, right, like every other country. And I also don't think that people are their governments. I think that regardless of what's happening by governments around the world, people in general are the same anywhere you go. Everyone has the same motivations. People want to be loved. They want to be understood. They want to feel successful, they want to provide for their families, they want to have a sense of community. Those are core human instincts that people have, regardless of the fact that they live in a country that maybe you consider to be war torn or, you know, just not a safe country in general. So Qatar actually is a safe country, statistically, it's among the safest countries in the world. I had a wonderful time there and I think one experience of that was right at the beginning when I went to breakfast. I had a breakfast feast in this book, the market there with a woman entrepreneur, and she was the first female entrepreneur in this book. And at first she was just so vibrant and she was smiling the whole time.

And I felt really flattered because she sat with me for a while, you know, me getting translation through one of her employees that sat with her as well. And I could tell that she was in demand. Like even when you walked in, you saw pictures of her with all kinds of celebrities. And it was just like the walls were lines, you could tell people have been here before. And people were in demand there to see her. And so I felt really flattered at first that she's that even though she didn't understand anything I was saying I'd like to think maybe like energy attracts. And so I think maybe she just saw that I was genuinely excited to be there and genuinely excited to talk with her. She sat with me for a long time. And I got to ask her questions like, How did you get into this? You know, her father was a spice trader, she grew up sick, she'd always been told that women couldn't be entrepreneurs. And she raised five children before she ultimately decided, you know, I want to do this because she has the knowledge to do it. She's an amazing businesswoman. And so when she started, she said she had to hide her face in the circus, somebody that knew her husband came by because it would have been shameful for her to be working. And there was a point where the Queen Her Majesty or the sheiks wife ended up coming by and she helped elevate her status and helped get her known. And now, you know, 14 years later, she has over a dozen employees. It was really cool to see this one woman in charge of all the men.

So now she has all these employees that are men, and she's the female boss. She's been visited by you know, David Beckham, like I said, Her Highness herself, shaker Mosa. And she has just, she's completely innovated the way that you make the classic regarding bread. And so she's done it in like 30, different shapes, variations, flavors, and she's done that, in addition to the spice shop that she owns, and she did it later in life, you know, with all the odds stacked against her. And now she's paved the way for other women. And that was just so encouraging for me to see. I loved hearing her story, you could feel that she had a powerhouse energy about her. And not just as a mother, but as a person in business. And she did such an amazing job, she now has over 200 seats in the restaurant, she's constantly packed, and the food was so good, I ate so well. So it was just an experience where again, you think you're in this horrible place. And you know, everybody's telling you not to go there.

But then you go and you find these amazing stories and these amazing people who, regardless of their government, regardless of the area, regardless of you know, constraints that they may have still risen up against. And I think that that's the constant thread that binds us all, we have that kind of grit and resilience, and that desire to be more than what people say that we should be. And I saw that in her and it was really inspiring. And so that was the first moment where I really thought, you know, I want to enjoy being here. And I know that a lot of people just want me to have had a negative experience or want me to write off the entire country because of policies or different headlines that they've read. But for me, actually being on the ground, actually connecting with these people actually seeing the women because in addition to her, I met another female artist that you know, has recently had her art displayed in public as part of Qatar create, which is an organization there that helps elevate artists, and she was so fashionable, even under the under everything that she was wearing, you could tell that she was just a very fashionable woman. And I love seeing that, like, I'm happy that I saw that firsthand, I'm happy that I have these experiences, I'm happy I have these connections. And I want to foster more of that. I want to tell those stories.

So I know that it's easy to feel righteous or to feel, you know, indignant over a lot of things that are happening. And I think I feel the same way. And it's and you know, that's not geographically bound, that's, that's bound to any injustices anywhere. And so I think that there's a difference between wanting to feel that way but also completely disregarding an entire culture of people and the entire country, you know, because of how they've been portrayed or because of things that you've read. And I thoroughly support becoming educated in reading and learning more. This was something that I did myself when I went back, but I can't let that dissuade me or change my experience, which was overall positive.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 39:56

Thank you so much for sharing that and I'm also so grateful you Started with the story of that experience, because I remembered reading that and I was like, Oh, my gosh, Jen is having the coolest experience right now. And I'm so envious of you getting to spend time with that woman and hear her story and witness all the things that you just shared. Because, yeah, I could just feel the energy of that space and how powerful that is. And those are those experiences for me that I am addicted to going back to that addictive feeling of traveling, but like, and the other thing that you've said is that people are not their government. And I think it's so important because it's so easy when you are again, like when you just see a picture of a map on the news, and then it becomes this blanket statement. And I think that's how humans think, we need a way of categorizing and compartmentalizing and it's, it's our quick way of understanding, it's how we're built. So we are, we do have to go against that. But I think, then when you travel, and if you let yourself go to these places that people tell you, you shouldn't go to and you start to have these experiences.

One on One human to human, you find like the most, like transcendent experiences, like there's really not even words for defying that norm that has been put into place, through you know, these different ways that we learn about other destinations. And I wish nothing else in the world than for every person to have that experience once because when you have it once you question every other thing that you've built, and, and you understand there's room for, like dismantling that and creating a new perception. And then you also know that like, everything you're told is not reality, which sometimes is, like, terrifying, because then you're questioning everything. But yet, it gives you so much freedom to be able to begin to understand the world around you in a different way. And I just think it's so profound. And like I said, I just wish everyone could have that experience one time.

42:19

Yeah, I can think of so many moments where I've had similar ones and Cuba with an Airbnb female Airbnb owner. And she said the same thing, she actually was able to go live abroad in South America for a bit. And that was her first thing when she got there was I have been told lies my whole life is everything that I know is not actually true. And that's why I value America so much, because at the very least we have access to information, you have access to all different viewpoints, you have access to everything to form your own opinion, whatever that is. And that's something I think is really valuable. And so making those connections and seeing that moment when people when they're like, you know, the world is more than just what's been painted for me. And I want to actually go and figure that out myself. I think that that's the most powerful part of travel.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:08

So many amazing things. Let's see the last thing that I wanted to talk and talk with you about, and I guess this also comes into dismantling perceptions you had shared recently, your experience of what a day in your life looks like. And I know when we're in the travel world, and especially the content creation world, that is our job really to sell beauty and experiences. And so people on the outside begin to believe that's the reality of our daily experience. So I would love for you to maybe walk us through a little bit about why you share that post and really the reality of it. So, you know, our listeners are already seeing you as the person that's having all these experiences, and writing and leaving her law career for this amazing travel career. But we can quickly lose sight of what it takes to create the momentum that you're having in your career right now. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about that.

44:06

Yeah, all the time. Honestly, every time I share something, a win or some sort people message me and they want to know you know how I did it or that they're, you know, I'm so lucky and all these things and so I actually think that that can feel incredibly isolating and that's why a lot of social media people end up having mental health issues because you people don't actually know the real you they just see the you that you portray. And then you feel completely different on the inside you feel you know, like you're not living up to those standards. It reminds me of the lucky song by Britney Spears where everybody thinks she's so lucky but she cries at night kind of thing. And I don't I am lucky. I do love what I do, but I would be lying if I didn't say that. It wasn't you know, work. It is hard work to do what I do.

I do believe that having multiple income streams is a way to have stability, but I think that the way that we look at the bill IoT is something where, you know, a new paycheck is coming every two weeks kind of thing. And you know, and now that we're seeing, you know, with Twitter, everybody being fired, and I'm sure they all thought that they had stable jobs, quote, unquote. So it is an illusion of stability. And I do believe that what I'm doing now is the best way for me to gain stability. But it's so difficult when you're in it. And when you feel like I have to keep generating success, I don't have anything guaranteed, I have to keep working for what I'm doing. And it's so difficult in the social media space, when you see other people kind of skyrocket to the top and then you're like, Why them and not me kind of thing, it's a natural thing for us to do. And it's really because we're not meant to be bombarded with so many different things.

And it's, you know, you can't take a moment to bask in your own success without somebody coming in and being like, actually, I've done this thing that's even better than you. And then suddenly, your accomplishment that you felt so happy about seems tiny in comparison seems insignificant. And that's kind of the danger of how we communicate nowadays with social media platforms. And so I think that if I only post my wins, people only think that I'm just constantly winning. And so I try to be realistic, because I think about what it would be like, you know, I think about what it's like for me when I see people constantly posting their wins and wondering, does this person ever struggle, does everything just come to them? Are they just like riding a Golden Rainbow kind of thing straight to the top? And for me, I post what I would want to see and hear myself, which is the real process behind it, you know, and anytime somebody messages me, and they're like, how did you get in this magazine? Or how can I be a travel writer? I'm like, you know, for every one assignment that I do, I have like 50 unanswered pitches, emails, rejections, things like that.

So it's really the only thing that I can give as actual real advice is to keep going. Because it's, it seems like success overnight. But really, it comes as a result of having to deal with the rejections, having to deal with the failures, having to pivot, having to start over. And I don't think enough people talk about that, because they want to portray themselves in a certain light. I know, it's not easy for me to be vulnerable. And then you're sitting here looking at the likes, and you know, scientifically, it's proven that people will like something that's happy, more than something that sad. So you reading about something you going through a challenging time, like, it resonates with people, but it's not going to get the 300 likes, or if I said, you know, I just won an award or I'm getting engaged or anything like that people are gonna go wild, they know how to react to that people don't really know how to react to I'm having a crisis of identity, I'm super burned out, I'm, you know, I'm feeling really dejected right now. And so I think, in that that's part of what makes us think, Oh, I shared this. And now nobody liked it, nobody connected, nobody could relate, I'm just gonna delete it and keep sharing my wins kind of thing, because that's what people respond to. And it's a really difficult place to be now that we've never been before, because we've never been in a state where you would have millions of people who can read about your every thought and your every, you know, process and it's just never been that way, it's so much information overload and so much pressure, to have an aesthetic to come off as a certain way to be successful, to look successful and not share any of the actual, you know, stumbling blocks along the way.

And so I try to be honest about that. Because it makes me feel bad when I see other people that I feel are never, you know, that are just always succeeding. And I feel like I'm struggling. And so I imagined that for other people. I don't want to make them feel bad too. And so I try to sometimes temper my posts with the reality of things. So I want people to know, I am a human, I fail at things. I also have, you know, editors that have ghosted me and pitched, I also get denied, I also lose things, I also feel disappointment. And the only difference is that I just keep trying, you know, I keep nominating myself, I keep putting myself out there.

I keep doing my own things. And it's, it really feels like whether you want to look at yourself, like a success or a failure, like both can be true. Like if I wanted to, I could make a case as to why I haven't been successful. And if I wanted to, I could make a case mentally for all the amazing things I've done that people haven't had, you know, even dream of doing. And it really comes down to how you think about yourself. And so this year, I've done a lot of mental fortitude, trying to work on that and it's an active process. It's not like Okay, check. I read this book. I am mentally healthy now. I have armor on when they will face me, I have positivity and affirmations and I am just a master manifester. No, it's Thompson every single day starting over and doing that work again.

Because if you let it, if you let it fall to the wayside, then you'll find yourself in that endless comparison in that endless overwhelm and the endless feelings of inadequacy that are really magnified by the world in which we live in. So I just try to be open, because I think it's important for people to see that it's not all roses and rainbows and that there are thorns along the way.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:34

Thank you, I think, partly why I'm so drawn to the authenticity of the posts that show both sides is because I think for me, it's so validating that I'm having the feelings I'm having. And I do actually find that those posts when I share that I'm, you know, a certain struggle or a wall that I've run up against, I actually do get a lot of comments on that, because I think, especially women are really looking for permission to acknowledge that they are having those experiences.

And so I think we need to be better about putting them out there so that more people have permission to share. They are also struggling, because we haven't had that model for us, especially in social media, where like you said, we are, we're getting more information than we ever have in our lives. And if it's all this, like, cute, perfectly curated life, then we are really measuring ourselves against something that doesn't exist. And I think people have really found themselves drawn to writers and content creators recently that are really bringing, like the full human experience into what they're creating. And it's because we are like, Oh, I am also a full human. And so I want to see that expressed. And then I think the other thing that really creates is, if I just see this facade, when I'm creating community, maybe to support people that are struggling or who need you know, to be lifted together, I'm not going to reach out to you because I'm gonna like Jen's already got it together. So she doesn't need any support. And what I found, especially through the last few events, like the one that we were at together, like really sitting down and saying, looks like everything's going so great for you. And like 90% of the time the person is like it, it does look that way.

But here's the real deal. And then we see like, this is completely this facade that we're projecting, because that's what we feel like we're supposed to be creating. That's what success looks like. That's what when people come looking for us, they only want the successful writer and author, they don't want the person that's also really struggling with x, y, z. And I again, like I'm positive, like I have optimism that this is shifting that people really want people who can be them for their full selves. But it's so interesting what this machine has created, and, and all of the things that it causes us to have to deal with, like you said that we've never dealt with before, that we don't have tools and skills and like we're all struggling through this together.