Episode 125 - Aubrie Canfield, Actuality Abroad
It might be unusual for travelers to seek the “ordinary,” the daily experiences and lives of local communities we visit when we travel, but this type of travel allows for a much more responsible and full experience. It’s the difference between “going somewhere” and “being somewhere.” And when we focus on being somewhere, our storytelling about that experience changes.
Are you traveling to consume, or are you traveling to connect?
For this week’s guest, Aubrie Canfield, this is the definition of traveling to consume versus traveling to connect. She encourages listeners and travelers to step off the conveyor belt of consumption and mass tourism and look for shared human experiences. That’s the type of travel that motivates Aubrie to visit communities worldwide and to teach documentary filmmakers and content creators to responsibly and respectfully capture those experiences through visuals.
Social Entrepreneurship in Travel
The moment Aubrie left LA and her career in Hollywood filmmaking behind, knowing that the values and beliefs held by that system were too far from aligning with her own, she turned to her lifelong passion for travel. After spending time with her film mentor and reading How to Change The World by David Borenstein, Aubrie was completely lit up by the concept of social entrepreneurship, in which people are solving the problems of their communities by leveraging local wisdom and traditions without the influence or constructs of foreign charities. Aubrie was inspired to participate in that movement but wasn’t sure how. Her mentor led her to consider how she might begin serving the sector or framework of social entrepreneurship. And the answer was clear. It’s storytelling.
After some trial and error, Aubrie and her team decided to develop a study abroad program that targeted film students interested in traveling abroad, being welcomed by a host community, and learning how to share the ways in which they solved problems with their cameras and their words. With so many emerging and established storytellers wishing to learn how to share stories that matter, Actuality Abroad then found its place in the social enterprise landscape.
As the Founder and Managing Producer of Actuality Abroad, Aubrie heads this educational travel organization that leads purpose-driven travel experiences focusing on ethical, collaborative documentary storytelling. Actuality Abroad teaches storytellers to seek the knowledge of local experts, leaders, and changemakers with the purpose of listening and learning from them, then documenting and sharing their work and wisdom.
What Lights You Up? And how do you “Do The Thing” while keeping your lights on?
Hearing Aubrie share the story of how Actuality Abroad came to be, Christine points out a common Soul of Travel Podcast theme: Finding creative ways to leverage all the talents and passions you have is the key to creating work that you love from the core of your being. While it takes courage to take steps to build that dream into your life, it’s so worth it.
Aubrie agrees: While sometimes, we need to support ourselves in ways that are not our true passion or our life’s work, we must continue to make progress in the things that light us up while supporting ourselves. Continuing to learn and practice in the field or form of your passion – even if it isn’t making money at the start – that progress drives you toward seeing your creation in the world, fulfilling your self-actualization, and moving you toward a space where that passion might become the work you get to do each and every day.
Co-Creating Stories with Local Changemakers
Documentary filmmaking, especially regarding travel, has largely been extractive. Power, status, privilege, and money dictate the perception of places and host communities simply because the people with those elements happen to be the ones behind the camera. But that framework can – and should – be improved by taking a radical stance against this extractive and harmful control of the narrative that has a consistently negative impact on the subjects of storytelling.
The alternative, according to Aubrie, is changing the way we tell the stories by:
Ensuring the control of the story is in the hands of the people whose story is being told
Expanding the context of what you are capturing and sharing that context with your audience
Becoming aware of our biases and perspectives and how they inform the way we frame a story
Understanding that there is no such thing as “objective media”
Adopt radical collaboration as the first step to creating a responsible story
Practice free and informed consent - for example, when asking for a photo when someone may not have a background in social media.
And then? It comes down to taking responsibility for where and how our story lives after that story is published into the world.
“If we are saying that we are here to do storytelling for impact, and storytelling in solidary, then we would want to tell stories that would be best suited to further the work of our collaborators in country.”
Soul of Travel Episode 125 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Aubrie discuss:
How to make travel and storytelling more meaningful and impactful
Traveling to consume versus traveling to connect
Distinguishing concepts of “your job” and “your work”
Finding and following what lights you up – while keeping the lights on
Types of storytelling projects within Actuality Abroad
Storytelling as co-creation and collaboration
Responsibly sharing photos, videos, and stories after traveling
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Aubrie Canfield.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #11 Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Actuality Abroad, visit the website at https://www.actualityabroad.org/ or check out the Instagram feed here.
Find your copies of You Are a Global Citizen by Damon Dominique, On the Noodle Road by Jen Jin-Liu, or How to Change the World by David Bornstein at your local independent bookstore or by visiting each author’s individual website.
Learn more about RISE Travel Institute’s Flagship Program and Short Courses at https://www.risetravelinstitute.org/.
Discover more about Solutions Journalism Without Borders and Dr. Anu Taranth’s month-long study abroad course in India.
Follow Aubrie and Actuality Abroad on your favorite social media network! LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Ivana Damnjanović (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 125 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship, small group tours, small group tours for women
Christine:
Aubrie Canfield is a global traveler, entrepreneur, and project manager. In 2010, she founded Actuality Media, an educational travel organization for emerging storytellers, which produced over 100 short documentary films about changemakers around the world. This organization recently relaunched as Actuality Abroad in order to serve a broader community of travelers and teach them how to become global citizen storytellers. Actuality Abroad leads purpose-driven travel experiences with a focus on ethical collaborative documentary storytelling. She's still moonlights as an advertising producer, partnering with marketers and creatives on storytelling campaigns. Aubrie is based in Central Florida and lives with her husband, three children and mom in the house she grew up in when not traveling. She invests in her local community by creating a homeschool cooperative, multi-family camping trips, nature play gatherings, and a working mom personal development circle. In our conversation, Aubrie and I talk about how to make both travel and storytelling more meaningful and impactful.
Christine:
She shares how important it is to have storytelling be a co-creation. We talk about how our own filter of life experiences makes it impossible to find an objective truth and our responsibility to think about what happens after a photo, video, or story is shared, and the impact that may have on the people or place being featured. Love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Aubrie Canfield.
Christine:
Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Today I am very excited to be joined by Aubrie Canfield, who is the co-founder and managing producer of Actuality Abroad. Uh, she leads documentary workshops abroad for photographers and, um, film, oh, I just forgot the word film, so that's really good. <laugh>. I'm like, what do you call those people?
Aubrie:
Yeah, that's people that record stuff, people that record stuff, moving pictures, moving pictures!
Christine:
Who want to travel and tell better stories. So that was great. This will be getting us off on the right foot. I'm, you can tell that Aubrie and I have spent a lot of time having conversations, so I'm trying to get my professional brain in action instead of like our usual, like quick, fast-paced, uh, conversations. Um, regardless, I am so happy that you're here today and I can't wait to share your work and bring our listeners into the space of understanding kind of the responsibility of storytelling and the impact we can have with visual imagery. So, welcome Aubrie.
Aubrie:
Thank you so much for having me. I, I am, it's a pleasure and an honor. So.
Christine:
Thank you. Well, as we get started, um, I'd love for you to introduce yourself, uh, do a far better job than I just did, and let us know a little bit more about Actuality Abroad, please.
Aubrie:
Sure. Um, so my name is Aubrie Canfield. I am the co-founder and managing producer of Actuality Abroad, and we lead documentary tours and travel experiences in communities around the world. So we primarily work with emerging but also established filmmakers, photographers, media makers, and we travel to destination communities. We partner with local social impact organizations in order to create content that furthers the work of those organizations. And so the, originally when we were, when we were dreaming up and launching the organization, it was this idea of what if we could create, or sorry, what if we could connect people who want to tell stories that matter, um, and change makers around the world who have really amazing, inspiring stories to share.
Christine:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And when I first heard about the work you were doing, I was so excited because it kind of connects all these things that I really love as well, and things that I think are really important and an area that have really spent a lot of time thinking about, but didn't really kind of understand the language for the conversations, or I didn't understand. I, I knew what I was like feeling and noticing, but I didn't really know what to do with it. And so I think this idea is something that's really important, and I think I'm not alone, but more and more people are starting to really kind of grapple with their responsibility that they have as storytellers and understand how to do that in a better way. Um, but before we get into that part of our conversation, I'd love to hear from you about how travel really first showed up in your life, how it became important, and how you knew that this would be kind of the place that you wanted to create a positive impact.
Aubrie:
Sure. Um, well, so I come from a family of travelers. Um, I, I didn't actually get to travel a lot when I was a child. Um, but the, my family stories, like the stories of my grandmother, my grandmother is a Dutch heritage, but she grew up in a colony in Indonesia. And then my grandparents when they were married, and my and my mother, they, they also grew up in, he was a pilot. And so they grew my, my mom grew up in all these different, um, communities made up of foreigners in countries, in Southeast Asia or in Africa. So I, the storytelling in my family was that there are other places in this world where, you know, people, where people live, where people work, where there are really interesting and amazing things happening. So I, I think, unlike a lot of my peers, I grew up with an understanding that, that it was a reasonable thing to go to those places, but that, that wasn't, that wasn't some sort of far off thing that only very wealthy people do.
Aubrie:
That, that, that those are, that those are travel is achievable even for people living, you know, middle class lifestyles. Um, and I got my first real opportunity to travel when I was a teenager. And my, my mom sent me to visit some relatives that she had in the Netherlands. And I got to spend a month there kind of hopping, like house hopping from like family to family. And I j I mean, it, it, at that point I was just deeply in love with the idea of going someplace new and learning about what life was like there. And, and I, and I, and I think about it a lot, like, because my first travels were, were to my extended family where we really didn't do touristy stuff. We were just, we went to the library and we wrote our bikes to the town square, and we just did regular things, just what the Dutch people did, um, how much that influenced my travel experiences from there on out. And although I do love to go see some of the top sites and some of the destinations that I go to, that's really not what motivate had ever, even when I was young, motivated my travels, I am interested in the stories. I'm interested to u understand how people do life in a place that's different from where I come from.
Christine:
Um, yeah, that really resonates with me as well. I feel like I saw things similarly, although I didn't have any exposure to people who were traveling, I just knew that there was something else out there and I wanted to understand it and be a part of it. And, you know, much like you were saying, not just come and have this like, quick snapshot of an experience or take in a certain, um, you know, aspect of, of it based on like a museum or some sort of site that people are seeing. Like I really wanted kind of the ordinary, and people look at you a little bit weird when you're like, I wanna go to France and do ordinary things. They're like, why would you do that <laugh>? Um, but I felt like it was really important, like that people are living in these places that we go to and that they don't exist simply for us to come and like, just run through with our camera and capture these moments and leave. Like, I really felt, and, and again, this is kind of maybe where the beginning of the awareness, there was something else that I needed to be thinking about was happening, but I really felt like that was disrespectful or it wasn't just allowing for a full experience to happen. I just felt like we had some sense of responsibility of being somewhere and not just going somewhere.
Aubrie:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Aubrie:
I, I think about it in terms of LA and I write about this too, about like the, the, the difference between going somewhere to consume and going somewhere to connect. Um, and the marketing that you receive specific, I mean, in everything, but a really around travel is also consumption driven. Like driven, like what, where am I gonna go next? What am I gonna see next? What am I gonna eat next? Like it, and, and to, to step off that kind of conveyor belt and like take a breath and look around and be like, but what is it? What are they do here? Like, what is this? What is, what is this? What is this about? What, like what, what, what is the same as my human experience and what is different than my human experiences? It's what motivates my interest to get on a plane and, and go anywhere. I mean, even if it's within my country, because they do life a little bit differently there too.
Christine:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it really does allow you to start seeing and noticing those even subtle differences and similarities, which I think is also really important in the context of connection. Like, I do think as humans we kind of try to categorize things and that's how we understand things, but then it's also what helps us to break down mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those places that we put people once we kind of have figured it out. So I, I think it's really interesting. Um, I know that you started with a career in film production and then had a travel experience that really kind of shifted what you thought you wanted moving forward. Can you share a little bit about that and how you realized that, that you wanted to continue to travel more meaningfully and kind of how, how actuality abroad became to be?
Aubrie:
Sure. So my background is in filmmaking. I, I went to film school. I, in my, I come from a family of filmmakers. My dad was a cinematographer. My, my brother still works in the film industry. And, um, so in film school, I had this idea that I, I'm gonna go to Los Angeles and I'm gonna work for big budget Hollywood movies, and I'm gonna climb that career ladder and e everything that entails. Um, and I was lucky enough that I got a chance to do that after school. I, I worked on some big movies. I eventually made it to Los Angeles. I worked on in like notable reputable production houses and agencies. And it, after a couple of years, I came to the realization that I didn't really like these people and that the culture of Hollywood is really negative and unpleasant and entirely ego-driven and like, faced with like, my, the rest of my career.
Aubrie:
Like, I, I, this isn't where I wanna spend my time. It doesn't… being a part of a storytelling project, being a part of a film or on a film set is really amazing and fun, but it's not worth having to deal with all of these, this, this kind of, this negative culture that's associated with the business. So at like the ripe old age of like 24, I like quit the film industry. Um, and, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I knew that I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna spend any more time with these people and their value system anymore. Um, and so I, I decided to follow another kind of dream that I had that I pushed aside, which was traveling and, and teaching English, particularly in Asia. Um, so I left my, I left Los Angeles in that career, and I went to travel and I funded it through teaching English.
Aubrie:
And it just reinvigorated this, this sense of possibility in me. And I was living in Bangkok for some months. We were traveling around Southeast Asia. I did some travels on the way there, and then on the way back to the states. And I just, it's all I wanted to do. Like, I, I mean, I love storytelling, but I love traveling more. And it's, I, I needed to figure out a way that I was going to do this. And this was at the time before, like remote work was a thing. So there was no idea like, oh, I'm, let me just get a job where I can work from anywhere. Like, that's not, that didn't exist yet. Um, so it was either the butt and seat mentality, like, I gotta be in an office from eight to five, or I can have my freedom. And that's what, um, that's really what I was chasing was the sense of having control over my time and, and the, and then the freedom that that led to.
Aubrie:
And then also wanting to, to be a part, having my work be a part of something that mattered, um, to people beyond just me. So I, in my travels, I kind of found my way to, um, like to be with a mentor of mine that I had from when I was younger. Um, and I stayed with her for a couple of months and she had since become a business professor at a university and with a focus on social entrepreneurship. And she turned me on to this book called How to Change the World by David Bornstein, who is a man that founded the Ashoka Foundation. And I was totally lit up by this concept of social entrepreneurship, the, that the idea that there are people all around the world who are solving problems in their community and they're doing it in a sustainable way. They're doing it leveraging like local like wisdom and traditions without the, the influence or constructs of like foreign charities.
Aubrie:
Like I, it was just amazing to me and I was like, this is what matters. Like the people solving problems in their own communities, that's the kind of stuff that matters and I want to be a part of it, but I, I didn't really quite know how, cause like there wasn't a cause that I was that that I was like a champion of. Um, and so my mentor is the one who kind of framed it was like, well, why don't you think about a way that you could serve like the sector or like the industry of, of social entrepreneurship? Like how could you support it as a movement? And that's where I kind of made the connection. It's like, well, I mean, I could tell their stories. And then we sort of did it an ex, again, an experiment into how that actually would work.
Aubrie:
Um, and after some trial and error and some traveling and some citizen storytelling like on my own, we hit upon this model of a study abroad program. And originally it started just with film students, cuz that was my background. I was a film student and I knew that when I was in college, I would have loved the opportunity to travel into a community, um, be welcomed by the people who actually live there, learn about how they're solving problems from the brilliant expert local leaders that are there and be able to contribute with my skills, um, with the camera or with storytelling or whatnot. So it was kind of identifying an opportunity there that there are change makers, as we like to call them all over the world, in every single community who would love to partner on sharing their story. And then there are all these storytellers both emerging and established who want to tell stories that matter. And that seemed like a really beautiful way to collaborate and something that, that I, and that, that my organization could, could facilitate for others.
Christine:
Um, I think there's a lot of really interesting things for people listening to think about. Um, especially kind of trying to unravel how you can find that thing that really lights you up and take that and make it gee, what you do, which I think sometimes can feel really challenging, um, when, especially if you're saying, okay, like I, I love film and I love, i, I just learned about this social impact business, and I think that's my, that could definitely be my thing. And, and I love travel. And then, you know, you throw in one other thing and you think there is no common thread <laugh>, like, how can I make this work? But I think that's the thing that's so miraculous when you watch people actually weave those things all together. They create something really, really powerful. And because as you and I have talked about a lot, this is really hard work.
Christine:
You have to like, love it from the core of your being or you're gonna stop doing it. Hmm. Um, and so I think it's really, I think it's, there's some real important wisdom in understanding really who you are. And even going back to, you know, that version of yourself that looked at this, you know, dream profession and this quote unquote like perfect path into the film industry and knowing yourself well enough, even at that age to say, this actually isn't who I am. Like, I really need to do something different. I feel like it takes many of us quite a lot longer time to have that realization. Um, but I, I just think maybe empowering people to really look at those things that like them up and say like, this really can be an important part of my life and I don't have to disown those parts of myself in order to be successful or to, to, to have value. Like the value can come from your place of passion as well.
Aubrie:
I was listening to a commencement speech this past, uh, I think it was in December, um, and the commencement speaker at the university po posited this brilliant idea, um, that I, I am all over frequently. And she was saying that there's a difference between your job and your work, and sometimes you can have those things together, but even if you can't right now, because you're, because your life is a journey, right. Don't ever let your job get in the way of your work. And I, I, I love that concept because sometimes we have to support ourselves, especially because I deal with a lot of creatives in, in the work that we do, sometimes we have to support ourselves in ways that's not our, our our true passion, our work. But that's not a reason to not do it also. And that, and I mean, when we first started actuality abroad, like it didn't make any money <laugh>. Like, so you, you have to, you have to keep figuring out ways that you can be a practical creator that you can support yourself and still make progress on the things that light you up.
Christine:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And I, I definitely hear that too. Like kind of, uh, I was just at a, a conference this weekend and so many people were saying like, even as writers or content creators or editors or whatever their creative profession was that they have the thing that, you know, keeps the lights on mm-hmm. <affirmative> and allows to pay the bills, but it also gives them some freedom and flexibility to do the thing that really fuels them. And so I agree, like it doesn't have to be all or nothing, but also I think it's really important to not just let that, that other piece fall off because it feels so important to have the job or to check a box or whatever. Cuz I, I think we're really conditioned to follow that path. And it's hard to say, I also love and need to do this thing that doesn't maybe seem to have some sort of societal value.
Aubrie:
Um, I agree. Well, I, but it's also about doing it even if it's not making you money right away. So even e e even like, I know, especially when I deal with a lot of emerging filmmakers, there's this idea that if I'm not making money making movies right away, like it's not like I should, I can't, I shouldn't do it. Like I shouldn't. I, but what I try to mentor people is a sense that if you wanna be a creator, you have to create ev every day. You have to be making progress on, on creating whatever kind of storytelling or whatever kind of art that you wanna see in that world. And even if people aren't lining up to pay you for it right away, um, and luckily we, we live in most of the people that I I mentor. We live in a place of privilege where we have, you know, the space to do that. Um, and so it's a bit of a psychological game to stay, to stay motivated in your creative endeavors, um, even if you aren't getting the external validation that you think that you, that you need right now.
Christine:
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I think also as entrepreneurs and people starting businesses and, you know, there's so many spaces where you do spend time. I've spent a lot of time there having launched a travel company like weeks before the pandemic, <laugh>
Aubrie:
<laugh>.
Christine:
I sometimes feel like I will never get out of that space. But I also know, like it was a, a weird moment in history. Right. And then also for the podcast, like I know like what is being built is so important that I have to keep going in order for it to like gain the reciprocal momentum. Like there is just a period before there's a tipping point. Um, and depending on all these other external circumstances is how long maybe that period is beforehand. Um, but yeah, again, just maybe encouraging people to really, to hold onto that. And I think it's so easy to dismiss dreams and, and just think like they're frivolous or something, but to just know, I guess no, it's okay to have it and know that it, I think so many people and having I guess over like 120 conversations at this point, I've seen it happen over and over, but that, that period before is varied.
Christine:
But every person who I've talked to who's coming from that place of like passion and purpose and dream, like somehow like, uh, it, it, it just finds its way to realizing. So, uh, yeah, I guess I'll get off that, but everyone <laugh> here will now know that I will definitely don't let them to let go of their dreams. <laugh>, um, you mentioned in your program, um, programs the term change local changemaker and that you really emphasize, um, putting them in the, in the place of owning their story and co-creating stories. And when you have students and when you have travelers and creators coming on these experiences that you want, um, the people traveling to really learn from the locals to understand the story, to let their voice be the leading voice and really start to challenge global power dynamics, what does that look like and and why is that so important in this process of creation?
Aubrie:
Documentary storytelling historically is really extractive. So like the, like the history of documentary storytelling, whether you're talking about photography or filmmaker filmmaking is, I mean, it's, it's people largely from Europe going, going to, to destinations where they have more power and status and privilege and money and the, the, the, the people behind the camera kind of owning the narrative and dictating what the perception of those places are to the audiences back home. And so that's what we're given as a framework, but that's like, that's, that's the water that we're swimming in. So in order to do better, in order to, to have a more ethical approach to st to to storytelling, we have to really get out in front of it. And we have to be almost radical in kind of our stance with it because we, it's not, we're not just operating against some kind of neutrality thing.
Aubrie:
We're actually operating in a place where the defacto way of operating is exploitative. So it's a little in me a little bit like academic in the, in the way that I'm describing it, but it's, what's important is that photography and filmmaking as, as a medium has always given the power to the person kind of holding in the camera and in in filmmaking we're even proud of it. Like we am like, well, we are the OC tour of the, of the story. Like it's our story. We get to, we, we get to be control of the narrative. Um, but that has a negative impact on the person, on the other side of the camera. And the storytelling that we are doing on, well, the story thing that I do always and that we do on our, our tours and on our travel courses, we're not telling stories about bad guys.
Aubrie:
Like, it's, it's not like we like the, we're not, we're not exposing some kind of like, you know, truth that needs to be out in the world. Like we're telling stories about the people who are the good guys, people who are solving the problems, and we believe that they should have control over how their story is shared. Um, just like I would want control over how my story is shared with the world. Um, and there's a little bit of a, a feeling, and I'm not even really sure where this comes from, but that like, oh, well they're gonna manipulate the story so that they can like be in the best light. And I find that's an interesting, like, paradox to sort of be in. And it's like, well, of course they're gonna manipulate the story to be in their best light because all stories are manipulation. Like, like you are manipulating the story by the, by choosing where you point your lens or by what you include and what you don't include. Um, and if we are saying that we are here to, to do storytelling for impact and, and storytelling in solidarity, then we would want to create stories that are best suited to help further the work of, of our collaborators in country. Um, so I went on a little soapbox and I forgot the second part of the question that you asked. It was a perfect
Christine:
Soapbox <laugh>, but actually before we go there, I just was thinking of, um, I just completed, uh, the, the flagship program at Rise. And you and I were talking about this before as well. There was a program on photography and one of the examples, and I I think it's so relevant cuz everybody kind of understands the idea of taking photo because so many of us have done it, even from an early age, right? As children we're often lucky enough to be able to do that. And you know, he showed like kind of stepping out three frames of a photo that he had taken. So he, he took the photo and you could see one thing, and from that you could see one story and you could understand one version of reality based on, you know, how our mind processes information and what we assume might be happening in that image.
Christine:
And then he, you know, went 10 feet wider and all of a sudden you had a completely different context for the experience that was happening. And, and then you couldn't believe that this is what you saw in this smaller frame. Like all of a sudden that reality is completely different. And then he did it one frame wider. And, um, it was really mind blowing for me because it was in that moment that I really understood kind of what you're saying this, this idea of the story that you're crafting out of this, out of this assumed reality of what is happening. Like there's such an easy way to interject yourself and to like tell whatever narrative you want to tell given on the way you frame something. So whether that's in a longer format or a literal moment of photography. Um, and then for me, he, you know, he was talking about how important it was to create context for your audience because they are also going to only see this moment that you created for them through your eyes.
Christine:
And, and I, I'm sure we could go on a very vast tangent, but obviously the media and the news does this for us all the time, right? They take that very narrowed in focus to tell us the one thing they wish for us to know when they're not giving us the two frames wider so that we can kind of broaden our own interpretation of the experience. Um, and then, you know, in terms of the context, like really understanding what happens after the photo and or the video or the documentary. Like, as creators we wanna create this piece of art and this storytelling and capture this moment. But I think we often don't think about the responsibility we with we have with where that lives after we put it into the world. Mm. Um, so I, I would love to to hear your thoughts on kind of how you have navigated that in your own work and maybe how you guide others to think about about those things as well.
Aubrie:
I think the first part to truly understand is that there's no such thing, at least in my perspective, as objective media, that every photograph that you create, every, every film that you choose to edit or any of it, it comes through your lens and it comes through a bunch of creative constructive decision makings. And so, and all of those have kind of an impact. So it gets really complex and there's a lot of decisions that, that we're constantly making as storytellers and as creators. So one, like I found that people aren't able to kind of take, people aren't able to maybe adapt frameworks or change their behavior unless you can give it to them kind of in a simple way. Like what is the simplest actionable thing that that, that I can do right now to make a shift? My, I, I wanna make a shift.
Aubrie:
I want to be more collaborative and more ethical and more responsible in my storytelling. Like how do I do that? And for us, what we, what we teach, what we preach is, is really this idea of like radical collaboration that, that the person whose story you are documenting and sharing needs to have as much, if not more control than you over how it is documented, how it is shared, and where it goes on to live. And, and a lot of times we're we will be working with people who aren't as internet savvy. They're not, they're not, they don't quite have a full as much understanding of what some, what it means when something goes to be on Instagram. Um, and we hear this, this term of free and informed consent when it comes to producing media, but what is, what does that actually mean when you're talking to somebody who isn't, who isn't Facebook face Facebook fluent?
Aubrie:
Um, and so there's a, there's a lot of conversations to sort of be having around that and a lot of habits to develop around that as well. I think we're so ingrained with the idea that any place we are, we can just like whip out our phone and document what we're seeing and we can post it on the internet and to change our habits around that behavior. To truly acquire free and informed consent from anybody who, who might appear in those images is hard and awkward and like an inconvenient. Um, so that's something that we really try to hone in on the programs that we run because it's, it's when you travel, particularly when you're doing an educational kind of travel program, it's a really unique opportunity to make massive progress and transformation. Cuz you're, you're focused, you don't have any of your day-to-day like, um, distractions or obligations, like you're just here to do this one thing.
Aubrie:
So you can really make leaps and bounds of progress in your craft or in your habits or in your mindset because you're able to pay your whole, whole attention there. So we really try to leverage these, these experiences to help both like aspiring and emerging storytellers and even people who are a little bit further down their journey, like set up habits that allow them to live out their intentions around ethical storytelling. And in terms of the piece of like what happened after, like what happens like once now, like we just did some films in Cambodia with a, with a group of students and the films are completed and they're being distributed on a couple of, a couple of online platforms. Um, so now what responsibility do we as an organization do the filmmakers have to the peoples whose stories are being shared in those documentaries?
Aubrie:
And this is an evolving, uh, set of best practices. I said that they, they, the practices keep getting better and better the more we learn how to do better. But right now what it means is that we, we, we stay in relationship with the people whose relation, whose, whose we stay in relationship with the people that we met and got to know and befriended in, in country. And then as their story gets shared, we continue to share it, let let them know and share it with them, Hey, we submitted it to this film festival and it got accepted and here's an award and hey, we, um, are, there's this new streaming platform that's interested in our content. And so we're gonna be sending a few films including yours on this platform and continuing to include them in the conversation as the collaborator that they are. Um, and just because maybe we don't share a language or we, uh, come from, you know, different, like different income that statuses doesn't mean that we can dismiss them as a, as the biggest part of the storytelling that we're doing.
Christine:
Um, yeah, I think there's so many things to think about there. And again, you know, us especially now coming from, if you're coming from US or Western world or places where we have internet access and we, like you said, understand, well mostly understand Instagram and TikTok and social media. Um, you know, we kind of can understand the longevity of something. And I even think back to really early traveling and um, you know, being somewhere where someone said, you know, here, don't take any pictures. People really are uncomfortable with photography and they feel like it takes a part of them away. And, you know, kind of everywhere I've traveled I've thought about that. Like, I don't know what someone else's feeling is towards an image and even, you know, people that are just uncomfortable having their photograph taken, whether they have more awareness a about it.
Christine:
Um, and then as you were speaking, I was peeking thinking of this photo that I have in my front room of this elder in a tribe that I met in the Amazon. And you know, I, it's a beautiful photo and I display it as like this way of telling his story, but also he doesn't know he lives in my home <laugh>, you know, he doesn't know this prominent place he has. So then you think like, that's a pretty isolated incident. If I went back, he'd probably be really fine with that, right? But someone whose image maybe ends up on the cover of National Geographic or goes viral and all these people see it and then, and then like pursue that destination in order to look for that image or experience like we have. I I think that's where we need to really think about the responsibility is like we are telling a story, but we're also kind of opening a door into someone's life and we're, we're telling other people about who they are and where they are and what they're doing.
Christine:
And because of the way that most of us think about travel, we can then be inviting people to allow themselves into an experience in a very entitled way without thinking about they haven't maybe forged the relationship. And I'm also thinking of this beautiful woman who does, and I can't remember the type of, um, tattooing, um, in the Philippines and one of her images and videos went viral and, and dozens and hundreds of people have gone to, to seek her out to receive one of these tattoos, which if I'm honest, is an experience I have thought about so many times. But because I wanna sit with her in her village and I wanna understand how the women have like learned about this tradition and I want to like, you know, understand where that's going, is it being preserved? So I have all these other reasons, but many people just want to have this tattoo that's the oldest art form of tattooing or, you know, so there's just all these different things that I think we can't solve it all and we can't anticipate it all and we can't be responsible for it all. But I think it's just important for people to understand that so many things happen after the fact that we may not be thinking about in the moment of creation.
Aubrie:
Absolutely. And I also think that not just in a, like, like I think that there's a lot to be said about that concept is what do your stories, how do your stories contribute to the travel landscape? And I don't mean just like as like somebody who considers themself a storyteller, but literally anybody who's out there documenting their experiences and sharing them with their audience, however, large or small, like the stories that you tell have an impact on, on the whole travel sector. And so in there is a really interesting opportunity to shift travel, however slightly to the way that you think it should be. So like, like the negative example for me is like, you go on Instagram and you see a bunch of influencers who are all documenting the same place, the same experience, and that place is now overcrowded and over and over touristed.
Aubrie:
Um, and there's negative impacts associated. But any one of those influences or anyone of us just as regular travelers could choose to go and seek out really culturally immersive experiences with the experts or the local leaders that are in that same community and share that to the platform. So like in the sense when I say that we have power and responsibility, it's not just around keeping people safe, but also around what we choose to amplify. And if we are the kinds of people who want to see more responsible tourism experiences or more community-based tourism experiences or, um, I mean whatever it is that we pri prioritize kind of in, in our, in our worldview and in our consciousness. Like that's what we should be documenting and that's what we, what we should be sharing and the ripple effect, even if it's just a little like a tiny one, it is something, it is an impact.
Christine:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Um, well I would love to hear a little bit more about the experiences you create. And I know you have an up upcoming storytelling expedition to Morocco. And in looking at it, I was also very excited because you're really focused on women in that region. But to for our listeners to understand a little bit more about your experiences, who therefore, um, what people learn and take away. Can you just walk us through a little bit about this experience?
Aubrie:
Sure. So we, right now we lead two different kinds of experiences. So we have a month long trip that we've done for over a decade called the documentary outreach. And this is typically for people who want to be documentary filmmakers or want to learn deeply about documentary filmmaking. And it's largely made up of university students and recent graduates where they go and they focus on one documentary film, um, partnering with a local change maker and they produce the entire thing start to finish in one month, even to the point of having like a premier community screening in country before they leave. So the storytelling expedition is a, a different kind of trip that's shorter. It's generally around 10 days in length and it's, it's still around documentary storytelling, but it's more focused on really contributing with your skills as a media maker and as a storyteller while going and exploring, um, a region of the country or a region of the world.
Aubrie:
So in Morocco, our storytelling expedition in Morocco is done in partnership with Morocco, Morocco Social Impact Travels, which is, uh, a responsible tourism, um, organization there. And when we were in talks about developing a storytelling expedition, we, um, our main, our main contact and guide and Moroccan producer, his name is Aziz. And I was talking to Aziz and I was like, we, I would love to do a storytelling project in Morocco who in your extended network would really benefit from a storytelling project that would give us an opportunity to see different parts of the country and be able to, to contribute with either photography or videography or, or content of that nature. And he immediately, immediately was like the women's cooperatives. And so all over Morocco, they're in the rural desert areas, there are these women's cooperatives where women work together to produce generally a culturally significant product, um, sell it to like a larger market, but the women are in control of the finances of the, of the economy, of the cooperative, which is really, really unique because what Aziz was telling me was that up until about the year 2000, like women could not make money.
Aubrie:
They were legally prevent, like legally restricted from earning any kind of money, um, which of course puts them at huge risk to, um, abuse of all kinds. So in the year thousand, which is relatively recently, the government passed a law that allowed women to earn money in these cooperative formats. And each cooperative generally has a focus. So on this trip we are gonna be traveling around Morocco and we'll be going to a cous cooperative and an argon oil cooperative and a weaving cooperative. And at each one of those in those communities, we're gonna go to like listen to their stories and document what they do, which is also very culturally significant in addition to being a, a way in which they make money and the content that we produce, which will be dependent on the travelers. Like, so we have photographers come with us, we have filmmakers come with us, we have producers come with us.
Aubrie:
Everyone on this trip gets to kind of decide how they want to show up on the day, who they wanna team up with, what stories are they drawn to on this day in this community, what, um, what storytelling projects they kind of wanna tackle. And then also listening to, uh, to the, the leaders of those cooperatives and to our Moroccan producer disease figuring out, well what kind of storytelling would also be of value would be beneficial to them. Um, I've heard so far that having some storytelling around their, their, around their unique processes of these products would help them get maybe, um, more opportunities for distribution through different, through different international vendors. And so that's one place where this content could also live. Um, women's cooperatives are also slowly making their way into kind of re a responsible tourism experience in Morocco. So organizations like, um, Morocco social impact travels could use the content to share with travelers and be like, Hey, why don't we go, why don't we add this experience share itinerary, which would then be another way for these, these cooperatives to, um, have a different kind of revenue. And what's really important about the cooperatives is it's keeping families in their communities, like in so many parts of the world there people are fleeing the rural, agricultural based areas to the cities to try to find work. And establishing sustainable, reliable income through these cooperatives is allowing people to stay in their communities where they've been for generations to be able to earn a living that provides for dignified life and to keep their cultural heritage impact.
Christine:
Um, I love the the question that you've started with, you know, with asking, you know, what could we do to create and whose story could we tell that would have the most impact? Um, I'm getting ready to travel a year for a year with my daughters and, and part of that and much of that is I would like to be bringing this program around the world and telling stories, but I actually kept trying to figure out how do I, how do I get to where I want to be? And I'm like, oh, that is the question that I was looking for, right? I, cuz I don't wanna be determining it. And I kept realizing that I, you know, I don't know those, I don't know where to go cuz I don't know the stories, but that is such a, such a simple question to ask to kind of begun, begin to unwrap where you could have a positive impact.
Christine:
So I, I love that. And um, also kind of in a alignment with Lotus Sojourns, that's where I had started, right? I worked with women's, um, artists and cooperatives in Guatemala because I wanted their story to be a part of this journey that I was creating. And I, I really wanted to create my trips in support of that cooperative. And then as I've moved, that's been like a framework that I've tried to implement. And so I think, um, kind of goes back to, you know, where we started in understanding the, the thing that lights you up, the impact you wanna create and how can you do that and how can you get creative to do it? And I think, um, yeah, something as simple as finding the right question to ask, maybe really unlock that door for you. <laugh>,
Aubrie:
We, I I've started doing more, I call it citizen storytelling work, like on my own, even outside of, um, out of actual, outside of actuality abroad. Um, and so last summer I was in Costa Rica traveling around with just my family and I, I wanted to see more of the country. Um, so I'd only ever been to like one part of it on like the Caribbean side. So I wanted to see more of the country, but I needed a way in, like, I needed a purpose to frame me being in a place cuz like, so where am I gonna go? Am I gonna go to Tamarindo? Am I gonna go to Monte day? Look where am I going and, and why? And it's very important for me to have a reason to be somewhere, even if it's just for research or to see this particular, you know, I see this particular thing, like I need a reason.
Aubrie:
So what I started doing to frame my travels is I, I started reaching out to my network and then like an extended network from there of social impact organizations and just said, Hey, I'm a photographer and a filmmaker. I'm, I am traveling around the country and I'm willing to do some pro bono photography or filmmaking work to support your organization. Would you be interested in partnering on something? And, um, the organizations that were best suited for that, like would respond back and we'd be like, oh yeah, actually this would be a great opportunity to do some interviews with, um, people who have received funding from our, uh, from our community fund organization or, um, yeah, we're about to start a volunteering project, um, around the OSSA Peninsula and we don't have any photography of, of the, of the places where people might go volunteer. It would be amazing to go and, and do that.
Aubrie:
And it radically changed my experience in Costa Rica. I got connected to the most amazing individuals and I got to hear their story and I paid my own way, meaning I wasn't asking for free room or for board or anything because the organizations I'm working with, they don't have that kind of, that kind of extra income. I'm not working with big hotel chains, I'm working with very small organizations who use all of their money to pay their people. And so I can afford to pay 30 bucks a day for a place to sleep and, and food for my family that I'm taking with me on this adventure. Um, and on top of that, I am going to create some photography that I'm going to give back to you. And I'm so happy that you've given me access to do it. And I wish that more people, even people who consider themselves amateur in terms of media makers would get on that bandwagon because that is the way to connect real transformative travel experiences in my opinion.
Christine:
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I, cuz when I envision travel, that is exactly what I envision is that those moments. But, you know, you wanna be welcomed in, not insert yourself into a place, figure out, you know, why and what you can do. But I, I just think it like, I want to feel like I have a purpose for being there, like I'm being hosted or invited mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And again, kind of going back to that idea of conception versus, you know, community and, um, having that impact. Like, I, I really like in my first iteration of this trip was like, I only wanna go somewhere where I know someone personally or I've had received a personal invitation and then realizing, of course there's some places that we do want to just see for other reasons, but like in as many places as possible.
Christine:
I want that to be the foundation of why we're there. Because I also think for my daughters, I I keep thinking how cool it would be for them to feel like they were a guest everywhere they went, or like they were welcomed everywhere they went. And how different of a travel experience to just feel like you, you showed up and felt really deeply connected to a place, um, is so different than just showing up and going to a hotel and, you know, doing a, a few activities. Like really ha having someone meet you at the airport who your mom knows or your friend knows and and them like driving you to their home or to wherever you're staying. I, I just think it's, for me, that's a really rich travel experience. So that's what I'm still trying to, to create <laugh>.
Aubrie:
It's a really rich travel experience and especially for children or even like young adults, it establishes good travel habits. So instead of going and expecting to be served, because you are, you are a client paying money to these, to, to people who you've bought something from. Even if you are covering your expenses when you show up as a guest, when you're being hosted, you are, you wanna be a good guest. You, you, you wanna be respectful to the people that are hosting you and you care about, about cultural nuances and not offending it. It's a completely different energy, right? Than when you sh I mean like the tourist versus traveler trope is like really played out, but what, what kind of energy? Pick a different model then as a guest, what kind of energy do you wanna show up into somebody's community? Um, and we put a huge emphasis on that in all the programs that we lead.
Aubrie:
Not for us. It's not so much that we are guests, although we are, but more we find ways to elevate the changemakers that we're working with as higher status that we are lucky to be able to be here, to get access to these stories, to be welcomed into these communities. And that the peop the, the leaders here in this community, even if they're G D P, is much lower than my, than, you know, your your home country. These are the brilliant experts that we have come to learn from and we are gonna follow their lead. And I think that's a really important shift too, as like who holds the status in a, in any kind of dynamic. And I try to influence everyone that I travel with that regardless of the amount of money and the amount of privilege that we show up here with, we want to elevate with our storytelling, the people we've come to visit.
Christine:
Uh, that is perfect we, I think to, to land this conversation, but I appreciate so much, um, you sharing your wisdom and experience and just kind of inviting my listeners into, uh, this area of conversation and reflection on their travel, uh, experiences and what they can do. Um, before we end our conversation, um, one I'd like you to invite you to share where people can find you, um, if they're interested in your upcoming experience. And then two, I have a seven, uh, rapid fire, rapid fire ish questions to end our call
Aubrie:
<laugh>. Okay. Um, so I'm at actuality abroad and pretty much every platform. Um, if you wanna send me an email to chat about anything related to responsible travel or ethical storytelling, um, I'm at Aubrie actuality abroad.org, um, and on all, most of the social media platforms as well.
Christine:
Perfect, thank you. Um, well we've mentioned a few books, uh, already in this conversation, but what are you reading right now?
Aubrie:
Oh, I just ordered a book but I hasn't come yet. Does that count? Sure. But now I can't remember <laugh>, it was just, um, I just saw this online, I ordered it so I don't know, but it's called, you are a Global Citizen. Have you seen it? I haven't, no. I I, that may not be the best example cause I don't, I it looks amazing because some of your other guests were sharing on their platforms, which is why I saw it, so it's probably great. It is. Um, but I actually also just read this book recently that was, came Outta Nowhere. It's called On the Noodle Road, um, hold on, I have to look up the author. It's over here on the Noodle Road by Jen Lynn Lou, and it's from Beijing to Rome with Love and Pasta. It's traveling along, it's her story traveling along one route of the Silk Road to follow how Noodles traveled either from China to Rome or, or from Rome back to China. And it's, she's traveling overland through most of Central Asia, which is not a place that I've really imagined or considered traveling to a lot myself. And now I really, really wanna go there.
Christine:
Uh, I read one recently and I'm not gonna be able to think of the name, so I won't pretend I can, um, about someone riding their bike, um, along the route, the, the silk route as well. And uh, also I will never ever ride my bike on that because I am not a bike rider, but some of the experiences she had were very, uh, eye-opening and, and made me very curious also about a region that I had never really thought about, you know, what it would be like to travel there, especially in those ways. So thank you for, for sharing that. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Aubrie:
Baby wipes. I, I mean I actually have a baby, but even when I don't have a baby, they are a most useful, um, hack for so many different things.
Christine:
Yeah. Uh, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Uh, where is a place that you would still love to Sojourn?
Aubrie:
Mongolia.
Christine:
Um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?
Aubrie:
Uh, some Tom Sum. I lived in Thailand for half a year, so, um, and I have fond memories of going to the sum to lady asking for some Tom with only one chili and then going back to my apartment and like my mouth's still burning cuz it's still too hot. <laugh>.
Christine:
Yeah. I remember making, uh, Thai, uh, curry one time and you know, they were telling us how many chilies to put in and everything. And the lady next to me, you know, that was showing us had like 14 chilies in her curry and she let everybody just take like a taste was very intense. I did develop my heat palette there a little bit, but not to that point. Um, who is a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Aubrie:
My mom. Um, she, she, I, I had touched a little bit about it earlier, but when I was 14 I really wanted to go on this like people topeople ambassador trip that, um, people with good grades get marketed to when they're that age and it's so expensive, it's so, so expensive and we just couldn't afford it. But instead of saying no, that's not an option for us, she figured out a way to give me my own abroad experience, which was so much more meaningful, connected to my family in Europe. Um, and it has shaped my understanding and my, um, motivation to travel ever since.
Christine:
If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Aubrie:
Because I just saw her market, her trip yesterday. I wanna go with uh, Dr. Annu Tanner to India desperately. And I could sign up on her month long study of Road Tripp I think cuz that she marketed it about cuz the community members. But I unfortunately, I don't think I'm gonna able to fit in my life this year, but maybe one day in the future
Christine:
I was also looking at that and Julie Uber, it <laugh> and it would've been really fun to do that with you. But I know I'm spending the whole month of November hopefully, um, this year in India. So I couldn't, it just can't happen. Right. But someday that would be amazing.
Christine:
Um, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would to, would love to recognize here in the soul of travel space?
Aubrie:
Um, okay. Actually, um, there, um, her name is Steph Kapper. Um, and she's actually somebody that traveled with me, um, years ago as, as a student on one of our programs. And she's gone on to launch her own study abroad program, um, it's Solutions Journalism Without Borders. And so she does kind of similar to our trips, but it's focused on specifically on solutions journalism. And it's all like article writing based. And when you join the program, um, wait, if you complete the program, it's a month long program in the summer or in the winter for university students, you get published. So part of the trip is having your articles published in like real significant, um, news publications. And the trip is brilliant and she's an incredible journalist who is also a digital nomad. And so an amazing mentor to anybody who would be interested in being a travel writer or, uh, a journalist around like solutions-oriented storytelling.
Christine:
Excellent. Thank you. Well, um, again, thank you so much for your time. Um, I'm so grateful that this allowed us to finally connect, cuz I know we've been swirling around each other in the, the cyber communities and following each other's work. But I'm glad that we finally were able to sit down and talk and to have you share here on the podcast.
Aubrie:
Thank you so much for having me. It was, um, you make it so easy to, to sit and chat.
Christine:
Thank you. I appreciate it.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.