Episode 139 - Elinor Fish, Run Wild Retreats
Whether you are ready for an earth-shifting transformational travel experience or simply want to put one foot in front of the other, consider the possibilities of connection, mindfulness, and being that come with group travel.
In this episode, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Elinor Fish, CEO of Run Wild Retreats, which offers women-only running retreats around the globe.
Elinor’s career began at Banff Lake Louise Tourism, where she managed travel media relations for the crown jewel of Canada’s national park system. She learned the art of itinerary design while creating fam trips for the travel industry’s best writers, photographers, and film crews worldwide.
Leaving the Canadian Rockies in 2004, Elinor moved abroad, first to Australia, then the USA, where she bounced between her passions: travel and running. For the next 10 years, she spent time working as the editor of a running magazine and doing tourism marketing for destinations ranging from the Province of Alberta to Catalina Island, California.
She founded Run Wild Retreats Inc in 2010 as a way to marry her passion for running and travel, and over the past dozen years has grown the organization into one of the top travel companies for runners, winning an award from Runner’s World magazine in 2020 for “Best Women-Only Trips.” Today, Run Wild Retreats is an IATA-accredited tour operator offering tours in 10 countries; they employ seven women and are proud to be on the leading edge of the transformational travel movement.
Creating Businesses on Instinct
Elinor launched Run Wild Retreats out of her personal passion for running and travel. In 2010, Elinor became more and more involved in competitive running and trail running and was offered the chance to move to Colorado and begin working for a running magazine.
She recognized the need for women’s running retreats that got women into the outdoors, and soon began to realize that the reasons why the women were attending the retreats were about so much more than putting their shoes to the the trail.
When Elinor got the chance to travel to Torres del Paine National Park with a husband-and-wife photography team to create a feature in Trail Runner magazine, her mind was opened to the idea of running that was not about the clock. It could be able exploring a place, connecting to nature, and seeing running as a mode of travel that could take people to visit communities and make connections around the world.
Transformational Travel for Women
Christine and Elinor point out the unique nature of women-only travel experiences, in which spaces for connection, sharing, and authenticity are all a part of the magic of gathering women together. Elinor shares that even as an adult, it can be difficult to have the bandwidth to nurture relationships with other women, and calls this an essential part of having a healthy and balanced and supported life.
No matter the ability level we create for ourselves when we enter an active travel experience, women consistently create space for one another to simply be. The dynamic and the narrative about ourselves begins to change, too. And it becomes equally important for everyone to succeed, complete, or come together than for individuals to have their own transformational experience.
Many of Elinor’s clients and travelers are used to training for endurance races or running in the context of competitive events.
Elinor’s strategy? She encourages her travelers to leave their watch in their hotel room.
Being with others, enjoying the group, and mindfully experiencing the trail allows women to connect with one another and with their own bodies in a way that the numbers of running can’t do. That little step of freedom can be a catalyst for transformation in itself.
Arthritis, Mindfulness, and Travel
In the episode, Elinor shares the challenge of being a life-long runner who began to endure excruciating pain – before learning that she was developing arthritis in her feet. She began to accept and find peace with her condition as a runner, and had to face what it would be like to continue to lead her business.
This led to what would become the cornerstone of Run Wild Retreats: Mindfulness. Elinor shares that she had to begin to take a more mindful approach to her health, her running, and her self-care in order to keep doing what she loved. These principles found their place in the reatreat setting, because while everyone may not be dealing with the same chronic illness, nearly everyone can relate to processing stress that takes a toll on both body and mind.
Becoming more present and seeking enjoyment is now embedded into Elinor’s brand, its values, and what it stands for.
Elinor also shares how she expertly engages travelers who come to the retreats without the intention to be transformed, instead loving the travel, running, and group aspects of the trip. Her approach includes giving folks an incredible travel experience while imbuing mindfulness practices, sharing circles, and powerful introspection exercises in which people can express what they have learned and noticed, building connections with themselves and others along the way.
Elinor also utilizes the Transformational Travel Journal produced by the Transformational Travel Council, offering travelers an opportunity to journal before, during, and after the trip to get into the habit of reflecting and putting into words the experiences they have.
“When you get a group of all women together, even if they’re complete strangers on day one, they don’t stay strangers for long. And it can be just incredible the the kinds of conversations and common threads that can emerge.”
Soul of Travel Episode 139 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Elinor discuss:
The experience of starting an adventure travel company for women
The changing landscape of adventure travel
The transformational power of travel
How Run Wild Retreats helps create spaces for travelers to be more mindful and present
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Elinor Fish.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #11: Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Run Wild Retreats, visit the website!
Connect with Elinor on LinkedIn or follow Run Wild Retreats on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram!
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Soul of Travel Episode 139 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Elinor Fish is the CEO of Run Wild Retreats. Her career began at Banff Lake Louise Tourism, where she managed travel media relations for the crown jewel of Canada's National Park system. She learned the art of itinerary design while putting together fam trips for some of the travel industries, best writers, photographers, and film crews from around the world leaving the Canadian Rockies. In 2004, Elinor moved abroad first to Australia, then to the U S A, where she bounced between her passions travel and running. For the next 10 years, she spent time working as editor of a running magazine and doing tourism marketing for destinations ranging from the province of Alberta to Catalina Island, California. She founded her travel company Run Wild Retreats in 2010 as a way to marry her passion for running and tr And over the past dozen years, it has grown into one of the top travel companies for runners winning an award from Runners World Magazine in 2020 for the best Women only trips today, run Wild Retreats is an IOTA accredited tour operator offering tours in 10 countries, employs seven women, and is proud to be on the leading edge of the transformational travel movement.
In my conversation with Elinor, we discuss what it looked like to start an adventure travel company for women 13 years ago, and how the landscape has changed in the industry. We talk about our mutual passion of transformational power of travel and how run wild retreats create spaces to help travelers be more mindful and present love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Elinor Fish.
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Today I am so excited to be joined by my friend and like person who I am so inspired by constantly in my business. Um, Elinor Fish, who is the c e O of Run Wild Retreats. And we have been so lucky to be connected to one another for the past few years through our, um, common work at the Transformational Travel Council in their design program and just in their community in general. And so today I'm really excited to hear more about your business, some of the behind the scenes that I might not already know about, and to talk even more about transformational travel with you. So welcome to the podcast, Elinor. Thanks
Elinor: So much, Christine. I'm really excited to be here and have this incredible chance to talk with you today. It's awesome.
Christine: Yeah, thank you so much. I I always get excited for these conversations where I feel like it's someone that I feel like I know, but you also know that you, even though you spend a lot of time together talking about business and work, there's still all these things that are uncovered and still to be discovered. So I'm excited that this is a, a place to intentionally create that space of conversation. Um, but before we start, I'd love for you to just introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them a little bit more about Run Wild Retreats.
Elinor: Yeah, I mean this, this is a company that, that really I created just purely out of my own personal passion for running and travel. And, um, it, it, it, it, it was a gradual process for sure, but, um, back in like 2010, I was working for a running magazine actually, cuz my whole, you know, my whole thing was, was just about just love loving the sport of running and really being involved with, with trail running, especially as a competitive runner, um, up in Canada. And then I had the opportunity to move to Colorado and, um, and work for a magazine all about running. And while I was there, i I, I kind of started to recognize that there really weren't a lot of women, um, doing this sport. So I thought, well, I should offer retreats to, to help, uh, you know, offer support for women to get comfortable running on trails and up mountains and through the forests and things like that.
And so the first few retreats were really just about doing that. You know, it was very like, local to me here in Colorado. Um, and just a, you know, pretty simple format. But, um, it was, it was, you know, fairly soon into it that I started to recognize that, you know, the reasons why the women were coming had so much more to do, uh, to, you know, there was more, so much more to what they were there to get than just the running. Um, and so that started to really get me thinking about whether or not this could be something much bigger than just like a weekend running camp type of thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I, I love how often we create businesses that serve ourselves first <laugh>, which I think is the best way to do it, right? Because you, you know, instinctively like, this is something somebody wants because I really love it. And I, you would tend to think you're not the only person who's looking for that kind of experience and you can also create something, um, that's really, you know, really powerful because it's something that you're coming from a place of something that you're so connected to. Um, so I think we'll probably talk a little bit more about that as we move through our conversation. Um, but so you mentioned that you loved running and a part of a little bit of your background, but I'd love to dive into that more. What were some of your early travel experiences and also, you know, year really coming at this from a love of the outdoors and running? What were, what were some of the things that kind of fueled your fire for those things and then began to lead you down this path toward run wild retreats?
Elinor: Yeah. Well, so I mean, my, my background, like a lot of people in running, I was introduced to it through school and, you know, ran all competitively through like high school and college. And so for me, initially running was about competition, right? It was about kind of this athletic pursuit. But then when I, um, you know, old, like later in in life I'm in my twenties and then I, I get this dream job working for this running magazine like I mentioned. And I got sent on an incredible assignment to Patagonia and my, and I, like, I couldn't believe that this was my job at the time. My job was to go on this running tour around Torres del Pane National Park in Patagonia with, um, with this husband and wife photographer team who are like, they're like the best kind of outdoor adventure and, and running in particular photographers in the world.
And they, they've created this life of like, traveling around the world and doing their photography and um, and creating these beautiful stories for magazines. Um, you know, and granted this was like 15 years ago, so like there was a lot more kind of editorial work to be had at that time. So, so we were assigned to go work together on this project to take these, you know, beautiful photos. I was the model in the photos and then I wrote the article, um, and we did this huge like eight page story in, in, um, the running magazine in Trail Runner Magazine. And that just like opened my mind to running as something that was not about competition. It was not about the clock, it was not at all about, you know, achievement, but it was about like connecting to nature and exploring a place, um, that in a way that I had never, ever conceived before.
And it just was like, that was the moment that like completely shifted my perspective. Um, and, and just to, to view like running as a mode of travel and how that can take you to amazing places and have amazing experiences and then connect with people through, um, through the shared love of running. Um, cuz that, that assignment for the magazine when we ran the ta alp Pine, uh, full circuit, it was like a, like a week long trip. Um, and we were with a group of runners from all over the world. And so it was just this incredible thing where we had this shared interest in running as like that common thread, um, that starting point for getting to know each other. And then of course, you know, you spend a week, uh, staying in Refugios and eating meals and running all day with these people, you really get to know each other.
Um, and some of those people I still stay in touch with today. Um, and this was in 2007, so, so just having had that experience and then meeting people I like this, these photographers, um, who had created a whole life around, you know, following their passion and, and traveling the world really like planted the seed with me. And, um, but it took a few years, you know, before I actually started my own company, um, because that was a huge leap of faith. And so, um, it, it was still a few years before I actually quit my full-time job and like went all in on making run Wild retreats, an actual travel company. So there was definitely, you know, some progression leading up to that. Um, but once I got there and I was ready to take the leap, it was, uh, it was a big moment for sure, but it, it luckily it's, it's paid off and we're still here today <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I, I think that's, um, that's such a powerful aha moment that you had that, you know, hearing that now I can really see that experience, how that lives in what you create. So I think that's one of the, the coolest things about hearing people's stories and kind of knowing about what they do a little bit. You're like, oh, I really see how that informed this or this informed this when you're reflecting back on experiences in your life and, and how they show up in your business. Um, so you mentioned you started your business in 2010 or around 2010 and, um, that you really wanted to get women involved in trail running and in traveling, you know, in this you unique way that you found to be powerful to you when you launched your business. What did the landscape look like for women only travel and women's adventure or outdoor travel at the time? And what kind of response did you get, you know, from other travel professionals or even from communities that you started to market these trips to?
Elinor: Yeah, I mean, that's a good question cuz to be honest, like I was pretty naive I would say about kind of the travel industry. Um, I'd worked in tourism marketing for a D M O up in Canada actually for, for, for Banff like Louise at Banff National Park. So I had that experience of like marketing a destination, um, under my belt, but I'd never run a travel company and I really did not, I was not very familiar with really what that landscape looked like. And, uh, I don't think I, I wasn't really familiar as to whether or not there was a lot of like women only travel companies out there, but I just knew that for the kinds of experiences I wanted to create, that there was something about that women only group dynamic that was just so special. Um, and I just knew it was gonna be part of our formula and I knew it was gonna be what our brand was all about.
Um, and I knew, I did know that there were other running travel companies out there that had been in operation for, for a long time and doing, you know, uh, running focused, um, group travel for, for men and women. Um, and that was totally cool. But I knew that what I wanted to offer was going to be something just, um, definitely more intentional. And this was before I had the language and understanding around what transformational travel was. So I wasn't thinking about it that way, but I did know that the dynamic and the connection between the people on the trip was really key to the whole experience. And so for me it became very clear that I really wanted it to be a women only setting. So, um, so that's what we've, you know, we've been committed to since day one and still are and will always remain that way for sure.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I wonder for you what, what you thought that was, what that is actually bringing groups of women together? Cause I I know that's, I I obviously also have a business focused on small groups of women. Um, and for me, part of that, speaking of building something for yourself is that I really craved the space for connecting with women. And I would notice, you know, maybe doing a, um, a different sort of business trip, the, the way that the women even spending a week together working in a destination to create some sort of program for them, like spending the time together as women traveling ended up being the thing that I was really just like holding onto. That was the special part of the experience. And then I realized, you know, that I really missed things like women's groups from high school or college or even, you know, like summer camp or those, those moments in time that you don't have as an adult that really create space for connection and learning about one another and just showing up as yourself in a different way than you do in your daily life. But what, what do you think is kind of the magic of the gather of gathering of women and traveling together?
Elinor: Yeah, yeah, I mean I've had similar, similar experiences for you just like as an adult, you know, we get so like busy in, you know, our lives and our families and our careers and there's just a lot of that. And it can be harder, especially I find, especially as, as I get older, to have time or to, to, to have the bandwidth to really commit to nurturing relationships with other women. And I just think that that's a really important part of, you know, of just kind of having a healthy, balanced life. And I think part of what inspired me early on was just remembering back to my college days. I ran varsity track and cross country and our team was really tight. Like we were really close. And so that whole experience being part of a women's running team was really influential on me. And so I think I missed that.
And so I think that, that, that was part of what inspired it initially. But then of course, you know, as I was doing more and more retreats, it was just so clear that when you get a group of all women together, um, even if they're complete strangers on day one, you know, they don't stay strangers for long and it can be just incredible the the kinds of conversations, um, and common threads that can emerge and it would just always be so special with every group. And so it's just always, you know, felt really good and, um, you know, and it, I think really goes a long way to creating that, that safe space. Um, and safe, I mean, in a number of, of different ways, like a space safe safety in, in meaning that you can just e express yourself naturally and not feel like you have to change, um, who you are in order to try and fit in.
Um, but we really want people to just feel that they can be themselves and then also safe, uh, in, in that they don't have to worry about being like left behind or, you know, being too slow of a runner. Um, you know, we really want the women to feel safe and supported, um, and not worry about being kind of like the odd one out, um, in any way. Whether it's just because of their, their running ability level or maybe just how, you know, their level of comfort of being in a group. Um, so, so all that kind of comes into play, um, in, in terms of, you know, how intentional we are with, with kind of designing the trips that way and, and making it, um, really comfortable place for women to, to come to.
Christine: Yeah. And I, it's kind of interesting that you mentioned the not wanting to be the one holding up the group or be the slowest runner or whatever, because I think that's something I hear so often is like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna be the slow hiker. I'm gonna be the one in the back, or I'm gonna be the person doing yoga that's not flexible or doesn't know what I'm doing. Or, you know, it's interesting how women kind of create that label for themselves or that space for themselves maybe. And um, what I've noticed in groups too is, is how well people start to support one another and like create space for them to be okay with being the person that maybe is the person running last. Cause there's always gonna be one person running last no matter what happens, right? Or when you're hiking. Um, and then also kind of shifting the, the, the dynamic to realizing that as a group, how important it will be to everybody that everybody finishes or succeeds or completes. Um, and then it doesn't matter who's in what position, but it's like about that group coming together to, to all succeed. That I think, I don't know if that's unique to groups of women, but it's definitely something that I've felt and have seen be the most powerful element is that that kind of completion or that that group coming together to support each member of them. Um, have you, have you felt anything similar to that in your groups?
Elinor: Oh my gosh, absolutely. <laugh> and, you know, having done this for so long and, and spent time, you know, traveling various countries with, with groups of women, um, we've seen so many dynamics play out and, and those experiences are directly led to kind of the approach that we have now to, to leading the retreats and, and all these mindfulness principles that we, that we bring to the, to the programs. You know, and, and one of the biggest things is just all the different ways in which, um, women will sh maybe, um, whether it's conscious or subconscious, try to, to look for the ways in which they might not belong. You know, and that's where that, that kind of, you know, saying, oh, I'm gonna be the slowest one and I don't wanna hold up the group. You know, that's where the, those comments come from is, is just kind of worrying that they're gonna be the one who might not fit in.
And so they're trying to like mentally prepare themselves or prepare the leader, um, for that. And that's just a natural kind of human, human response. It's just, it's just this natural thing to, to want to identify how we might not fit in and, and kind of maybe be a little bit worried about those differences. And that's a whole, that's the whole reason why we're very intentional in creating a, uh, environment in which it we focus on the things that the we share in common. Um, and, and, um, so for example, you know, in order to really make it a non-competitive environment, so for our, cuz our clients, they are used to coming from, uh, the world of running where, you know, they go do like a 10 k race on the weekends or maybe they spend months and months training for like a big race, like a marathon or something.
So for them, you know, maybe most of their experiences running have been in the context of training, um, and participating in competitive events. So one of the biggest things that we encourage them to do is to run with us without a watch, you know, like leave your watch, uh, at your hotel room or just don't even bring it like, you don't need that G p s on turn off the, your phone notifications and all that stuff so that you can, um, just be here with us, um, as a group enjoying this beautiful trail, this beautiful day in this beautiful and environment. Um, and, and like just disconnect from the usual things that might be giving you kind of that feedback about your pace and, and, um, kind of the numbers that, that sometimes carry a lot of meaning for certain runners. And we just wanna take that out of the equation.
You know what, that's not not important here for this experience. We're here to experience something completely different to be really mindful, um, and, and focusing on the people that we're enjoying it with. So it's, it's really amazing the, one of the, the comments that we hear most often for, from people when they, when they do take that advice and, and do take the watch off and turn off the phone and that kind of thing, is that they feel so much like freedom. Like, it's just something that, that just taking that one little step can be so, uh, so transformational in it itself and that, so it was more impactful than I ever could have thought. Um, but that's just one of those ways in which, um, you know, we want to kind of, yeah, like put everyone on a more level playing field, so to speak, um, and, and say, you know, it doesn't matter who's running at the front of the group or the back of the group and every day is different and it doesn't really matter how long it takes to do this run, we're just here to enjoy it.
Christine: Yeah. I hadn't really thought about before how ingrained that would be in that culture of that community is just, like you said, starting from your first running experiences likely were in track or cross country or something. And so you've, you're always being conditioned to think about how you're performing and how you stand up and, um, to be able to remove that. And as you were talking about it, I could just feel freedom actually, like coming back to what it would be like to be a kid when you go tearing across the yard or down the street or something. Like, you are not thinking about any of those things, but I think most of us are probably so far removed from that place of running. Or the thing that maybe got you into loving running in the first place probably was from that, that freedom and that just like, you know, being in your body and the movement of it and what you really loved.
Um, and so this allows the space to step back into that. Um, so we have already talked about the fact that we met through the Transformational Travel Council and that we both are really passionate about the power that travel can hold for, uh, you know, the people that join us on experiences. I'm wondering if there was a particular experience that made you realize that there was something deeper to gain in a personal travel experience that made you want to really kind of tap into that and be able to craft deeper experiences for your own travelers?
Elinor: Yeah, I mean, like a lot of, you know, phases of the business has gone through. It's a lot of it is, is inspired by my own personal journey, you know, and why not <laugh>? Um, so for me, um, you know, I wa was doing yeah, operating run while retreats for a few years and, um, doing all the things, you know, uh, I was still like running ultra marathons, you know, crazy things like that. So, so running was, was my life and then all of a sudden I started to develop, um, just kind of this constant pain in my feet and I'm like, oh, this doesn't <laugh>, this doesn't feel right. Um, I mean, I've been a runner my entire life, you know, so when I have a new pain, it's like I'm very tuned in and I, and I, I gotta, you wanna diagnose it, treat it, and like get back to, you know, to doing what I love to do.
Um, and so I was going to the doctors and getting x-rays and trying to determine was it like a stress fracture or what? And ruled out all kinds of typical running in type injuries and eventually, uh, learned that really the problem was that I was developing, um, arthritis in my feet and that it wasn't gonna go away and that it was only gonna get worse over time. And needless to say, like when I got this diagnosis, it was like devastating. It was absolutely devastating because I created a whole life lifestyle identity and my business around running. And here I, my whole identity as a runner was, was under threat. Um, you know, I was in the situation where running was so painful. Like I was, I remember before really getting the diagnosis and getting the, you know, getting on a pain management, uh, program. I was in Iceland with a group of women and we were, we were up in the highlands of Iceland.
And it's beautiful, you know, like we're running in this big river valley where it's all like this rocky, um, you know, rocky, uh, riverbed, uh, super wide, um, with, with, with volcanoes on either side of the valley with glaciers on top of the volcanoes. And I mean, it's just spectacular. And the women are like, oh my, this is so beautiful. And there I was like, running on these rocks and every step was just like shooting pain up my foot. And I, I almost had like tears in my eyes and I'm just like, yep, yep. You know, just trying so hard not to show how much pain I was in, but that was kind of where it got to before I, I really, you know, was able to, you know, get a good diagnosis and, and start on a pain management, uh, program and, and then too, like just try to find some, uh, some peace with what this meant for, for myself as a runner for the rest of my life and how on earth I was going to continue having a business that was all reliant on me being able to run.
Um, and so, needless to say, it was a really tough time, but what it brought me to was, you know, what is now like the cornerstone of all of our, um, all of our retreats, which is really a mindfulness making, running a mindfulness practice. So first I had to do the work on myself. And I mean, there was years, um, you know, especially there in the beginning, there was like a three year process where I just was really taking a more mindful approach to my own running and my self-care. Um, and my health and mindfulness became a daily practice and eventually I was able to get back into running, but with a much more mindful approach. So that meant all kinds of different things, but, but it really inspired me to bring some of those mindfulness concepts and principles and bring them to the retreat setting.
Cuz I, I kind of realized that like, not everyone is dealing with, you know, chronic illness the way I am, but we're, we are all, almost all of us are affected by some degree, by stress, and that that stress takes a toll on the body and the mind and how these mindfulness practices that we do when we're on the trail and, and throughout the whole, like, the whole time that we're traveling, how can we be more mindful, you know, on each day and with all these different activities that we're doing, um, that it was so powerful for, for just kind of like taking away the stress and really helping us get more present with what we're doing and just get more enjoyment out of the whole experience. And so now that is like baked in, I I call it like, baked into our whole approach to retreat, design, retreat, leadership, you know, our marketing messages, our brand, like what we stand for, our values. So, so honestly that, that is part I get most excited is just kind of thinking about how we can make these experiences even more mindful and how our team can really embody those principles even more powerfully. Um, so we're just constantly kind of iterating on that. But yeah, that's kind of where it all came from. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, I, I think that was such a, uh, incredible thing that you were able to witness in your journey and then kind of say, okay, here, this might also be valuable. Um, and I would love for you to share a little bit more about this process because, um, I'm sure if you've have found that not all of your travelers are coming to you really seeking a transformational experience, or maybe none of them are, but we can kind of subtly take them along this experience. And, you know, as we both know that they'll kind of get out of it what they're meant to. It doesn't mean like everybody is gonna have the same experience, even at the same time doing the same things. Um, but what are some of the elements you mentioned, you know, taking off your watch when you're running, what are some other things that you do to help travelers be more present and that you, um, also do to create space for reflection and, and how that really kind of moves people through this journey as they're taking one of the experiences with you?
Elinor: Yeah, well, it, it's been such an interesting, you know, evolution and, and, you know, process of like trial and and error. Um, because, you know, ear earlier on, uh, in this process, I had some experiences that taught me how yeah, people aren't necessarily booking travel with the intention of like having a transformational experience, you know, being transformed by it. I think that's a hard thing to sell. Like it's not something that, um, that can necessarily come across as being really attractive to, to, um, to a traveler, because to be honest, like that transformational process could be kind of painful or difficult sometimes, right? Um, and, and so we really wanted to be careful, and I've experimented over the years with, with different degrees of kind of, um, of, uh, different degrees of highlighting the mindfulness aspect of our retreats. Like, for a while there, it was like front and center, like this is a mindfulness retreat, and people would so often, you know, sign up and say, I'm really just here for the running.
I'm not really here for the mindfulness <laugh>. And I'm like, okay, I don't really get this. So this is interesting feedback. And so what I really learned over the years is, is, you know, really give to, to give people what they really, really want, but then bring in the elements that are really gonna serve them most powerfully. And so I, I knew that like, having these mindfulness aspects of them, like asking them to take their watch off was gonna be a big deal, but of course, travelers isn't thinking about that. They're like, well, what am I gonna see? Where am I gonna go? Where are we gonna stay? Um, how many miles are we gonna run every day? All that kind of stuff. And, and so we had to kind of, you know, present that first, but then without really highlighting them, we would then also like have ready to go and, and you know, would kind of roll out during the course of the retreat, you know, these mindfulness principles and ideas, right?
So, um, uh, like another one is just, we do a lot of like embodiment sort of exercises, just really simple things like at the start of our run, especially on the first few days when people are still just trying to acclimate to the new place and the group and, you know, get comfortable with the whole, um, place. Um, you know, things like, uh, just being, becoming aware of maybe where they're carrying tension in their bodies. So we do like, you know, body scan and we work on posture and that sort of thing. And really these are exercises that are just really trying to get help people kind of get out of their minds and like all the things that they might be thinking about or worried about and just more into their bodies. And that helps get them more present and grounded in the place and with the group.
Um, and that goes a long way to creating that feeling of connection with the group and dialing down any kind of stressor or anxiety that they might be feeling. Um, so that, that, those are actually really powerful exercises. Um, and then another one is, um, well sharing circles. So, um, that is where, you know, usually a few days into a retreat, uh, the retreat leader will, you know, get everyone together. We'll sit down in a circle and, and people will have an opportunity to, um, to share a little bit about kind of what they're experiencing so far. Um, and we try to make it very much about sharing what's happening here and now, and not, um, you know, it's not like tell us your life story <laugh>. Um, but really it's just about, again, sort of cultivating some present moment awareness and checking in with people and giving them a, a space to, to, to just share what, what's on their mind with, with the group.
And that can be a really powerful exercise again, um, because when people voice things that they saw or felt or noticed or learned, um, it, again, it helps build that connection. People are like, uh, they, they realize that, that they have so much more in common with the other people in the group than maybe they would've assumed otherwise. So, um, so those are a couple of the things. Um, and another one of the things that we use is not everyone is really comfortable speaking or, or sharing in a, in a group setting. And so, um, the Transformational Travel Council has this beautiful journal, um, that they make available. So we, we offer that journal, um, to our clients as well so that they can journal to themselves in private. Um, and we encourage them to do that, you know, leading up to the retreat and during the retreat and to continue doing it after the retreat, um, for their own, you know, um, sake of, of self-reflection and, and, um, just kind of under getting in the habit of pondering, um, and, and putting into words the experiences that they're having, um, because they might uncover something that they had really no, no idea would, would come out.
Um, but that's where transformation happens, you know? It's not something that we create that, that's the one thing that I definitely learned along the way.
Christine: Yeah. Um, I love the idea, you know, talking about finding language for things, slowing down, just getting into your body. Cuz I think we all know that we spend most of our time not there and not doing that. And even as people who think about this a lot, we see it, I think even more in ourselves that we're like, oh my gosh, I'm doing this thing that I know isn't good for me, but I'm like doing cranking out in my business and I'm not resting and I'm not pausing and I'm not reflecting, and then we feel it. Um, so like really creating the space for that to happen. And I even think the contrast in running it must be so interesting because you are, you're thinking literally about moving, right? So then even slowing that down is, there's such a beautiful contrast between those two things that I think that is powerful.
And then, you know, you mentioned in a group, I think one of the things that makes this type of experience so powerful in a group is if you are struggling kind of voicing something that you have felt or you don't really understand how something you saw impacted you and someone else maybe puts words to it, it like releases that thing within yourself and now you have words for that. And it's so powerful. And I think like, uh, in a group, you, you kind of teach each other how to like have that journey within yourselves. And I, and also kind of going back to the point where if you have eight women all doing this same trip, eight women are having completely different experiences, but yet if you sit down together and kind of process it, you're also learning through seven other people's experience. So even if it wasn't yours, like you're kind of absorbing some of the power and the momentum of, of whatever they're experiencing. So I think like I, for me, that's one of the most amazing things to witness is just like watching some of that happen or, you know, seeing other people grow even through other people's experiences. But how, how have you seen maybe that happen as well in the group dynamic?
Elinor: Yeah. Well, you know, what's interesting is like, I mean, I've done so many of these retreats over the years, and every single group is different <laugh>, it's never been the same twice. I mean, sometimes, you know, there there's moments of, of awe or, or just, um, a breakthrough like where someone just like achieved something that they never thought they could do, like run to the top of a mountain or something. Um, or they're just such an awe of the beauty of the place that we're in. Um, uh, you know, that it, it just like, it literally brings tears, you know? And sometimes people are just like crying tears of, of happiness and, and that is such an amazing thing, um, uh, because, you know, we're, we're emotional beings and I think we're taught to just like keep all that stuff inside in our day-to-day lives.
And, you know, it just feels so good to, to be able to, to express ourselves in a genuine way, whether that is like a whoop and a holler of excitement and energy or just like, like a, just a release of of, of tears and emotion, you know, whatever it is. Um, and, and so it's always interesting. Like you never know what you're gonna get. And that, that's what keeps, keeps the work so fascinating for me. Um, and well, and for all of our retreat leaders now, now that we have a whole whole team of them, you know, we sh we constantly like share, um, uh, experiences so that we kind of hear, hey, this is how things went in Iceland and, and this is how the clients responded. And, um, or you know, another group, this is how, what happened in Spain and this is how they responded.
And, and so we're constantly kind of sharing those, uh, experiences in order to learn from one another, um, and, and get more insights into, uh, w you know, how our clients are showing up. Um, because that also teaches us a lot more about how we can, what we should be doing to help prepare them for this kind of an experience. Um, you know, cuz like, as I've been saying, you know, we, we don't make the transformation happen. It's all really up to the client. And so we've actually been putting a lot more work in the last couple years into, um, what, what we ask the client to do before they come on the retreat and seems to have a big influence on, um, their degree of transformation once they're actually on the trip. And so that's been a really interesting, um, process to develop too.
And based on some of the, the transformational travel council curriculum, we developed a, a video called Travel with Heart, um, using the, the acronym h e a r T. Um, and so that, that's those five qualities. Uh, let's see, humble, engaged, resilient, thankful, um, and, uh, she thankful <laugh>, Mike, wait, but not, uh, resilient, uh, aware. Yes. So I got them all in there, not in order, but, um, yeah, so those qualities, uh, we, we present them to the client in the format of a video before the retreat. Um, again, just to, to really help plant those seeds and say, Hey, if, when you, if you choose to embody some or all of these qualities you are in for an even deeper and potentially pro profound travel experience, um, but what you get from this retreat is, you know, really depends on you and, and how you show up.
So, so we do, um, yeah, want 'em to get the most from it, but we can't want it for them more than they want it for themselves, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, you know, as, as people who do the work of wanting to create transformational travel experiences, you know, we know what that potential looks like, but the traveler probably doesn't, you know, a lot of them don't. And, and this whole concept of transformational travel is I think still very new and maybe kind of confusing because there's a lot of buzzwords out there. So, um, we definitely don't assume that our clients are looking for that or have any idea of really what we mean when we say transformational travel. So we don't really focus on using that term or that term terminology specifically, but we do, after someone signs up for a retreat, we do start to, you know, offer little bits of information, you know, leading up to the retreat, just a little bite-sized pieces about things they can start to think about and steps they can take to, um, yeah, before they come on the retreat to kinda help prepare them so that once they get there, they might be more open to the idea of, um, really engaging with the group of really using the mindfulness practices of, of, um, you know, all the other things of like really practicing gratitude, um, as a mindfulness practice and really what that looks like.
Um, so there's lots of little things, um, along the way that, that are kind of intended to help with that process, though, of course, you know, what the traveler really chooses to engage with is totally up to them.
Christine: Yeah, it's such an interesting place. Um, and I know, you know, you mentioned that we, we can't really want the transformation for them more than they want it for them themselves, even though, like, I know myself, we do want it, right? Because we've felt it or we've seen it in others, like really we do want it for them, but you can't just be like, this is what shall be the outcome because it is so personal. And so it's such an interesting space to be in when you're, when you're creating an experience because like I really am creating moments where I, I know there's the possibility for that and like, I, I really want them to feel that feeling or know themselves in that way or, you know, evoke that within them. But like you said, there's, there's nothing that says it will happen because someone has to be open and ready. But I love how you said, you know, you invite them to embody these characteristics because once you kind of open that door, then you're like, okay, like if they just pick up on this one thing, I can almost be sure that at the end of the day something have like grown or evolved, like
Something will have shifted a little bit and, and then creating the space like we mentioned for reflection, then people can kind of ease into that a little bit more. But I, I'm wondering, you know, you know, you said you aren't super marketing forward or, you know, you're not saying like you will have a transformational experience at the end of the day. What kind of feedback do you get? Do you, do you have a lot of people that then do notice that they have had this shift because they've gone through this process? What does that look like on the other side of the experience?
Elinor: Yeah, I mean that's, that's a great question. Um, because, uh, like how, how do we know or how do we kind of measure that? Um, when we do get, you know, of course we ask for, for feedback after the retreat or you know, um, and some, so sometimes we hear it like on the last day of the retreat when everyone's saying goodbye, um, the clients will share with the retreat leader, or sometimes we get it afterwards, like in a written message or one of the reviews that they post. Um, and I mean, I would say it's not, you know, you, you never know, um, it's not guaranteed and it's not most women, you know, having like a deep transformational experience, but it's, it's a pretty special thing when it does happen. And then they do tell us about it. So we love hearing that. Um, and, um, you know, the, they'll so, so sometimes the women will put it in writing and, and share that publicly that they were deeply touched by this experience, that it was so much more than just a vacation, that it was so much more than just, um, you know, a trip with some friends or whatever.
Um, but you know, it's funny sometimes too, we'll, we'll have women who, you know, are very quiet and don't really engage much during the retreat and you really have no idea like what's really going on with them internally. But like, that's totally fine. We just let everyone kind of have their own experience and um, you know, do what they're comfortable with and share as much as they're comfortable with. Um, but it's fascinating when sometimes then we'll get an email from that, that woman after the long after the retreat saying that they were like deeply, you know, just deeply touched and just had an amazing time and, and would, would just ha be like pouring out all these different, you know, compliments and, and, um, exclamations about their trip, but we didn't see any of that during the retreat <laugh>, but, you know, but then they could say after they got home that it was really fantastic.
Um, so there's just like two ends of the spectrum and then everything in between. Um, but I would say especially since C O I D, um, you know, when when the world was shut down and the travel bans were in place and we were all at home and people, you know, started craving just like, I just want to take a trip. I, I go anywhere, just like, get me outta here. Um, and so ever since travel kind of resumed after covid, you know, the, I I know the travel industry in general has had such a, you know, such an overwhelming demand, but we've had so many women, um, coming back, uh, who'd been on trips with us before and are all coming back and, you know, they tell us like, I just, I needed this. Like, they knew what they were coming for and they were so much more ready for it.
They were like, I have been alone <laugh> at home and I've been just like, looking forward to this. And uh, and that's been amazing because, um, I think that whole period of being home and, and you know, when the pandemic was just, you know, fueling just our feelings of like fear and loneliness and all kinds of things, um, I think it made us all just appreciate the value of just like being with people and being out in the world and connecting and, um, that I think we, we don't take that for granted anymore. Um, and so to be honest, I feel like the, the overall kinds of feedback from women that had so much more to do with that feeling of transformation and growth and meaning from the retreat is just so much more than it was before the pandemic. Whereas people were like, the running was great, the scenery was beautiful, the meals were awesome.
It was like, yeah, but there was more to it than that. Did you, you know, have a mindful experience? And so, um, so while that was happening before the pandemic, it's so much more so since, um, that, so I see that as a, as a gift. Um, and we're just really excited to build on that and offer just more experiences than ever and hopefully, you know, reach more women than ever because, um, the message we keep getting is like that women need this, they want this, and um, they're ready for it, so we wanna be there to deliver.
Christine: Yeah, I love that and I love that, you know, sharing that after people have experienced this once, so maybe they did go because they wanted to travel with girlfriends, they wanted to run, you know, see a beautiful place, all those kind of things. You said when they returned, they were like, okay, well that was all great, but now what I am really coming back to you for is that extra layer that I got and I really mm-hmm. <affirmative> wanna kind of hone in on that the second time. So I think it's so great that if you, you know, invite them in with what they know and then give them this other piece, then, then they get comfortable with that too, right? And then they come back for that experience. Cuz that is what's really powerful. Like you said, there's lots of people that offer running trips and you know, other things like that.
But this thing that I think people really need once they understand it and feel it, um, that's really important. And the other thing, you know, that you mentioned with the example of the woman who maybe was quiet and didn't really seem like maybe they weren't having that experience, um, for people listening, like sometimes takes a long time to understand the impact that something has had on you. And you know, if you're thinking about transformational travel, a lot of people might have this notion that it's this huge pow that happens and you walk away just completely different. But I think for most people, it's like three months later or six months later, two years later when you're doing something and you're, you like, reflect on why is this all of a sudden so important to me? Or, you know, where is this thing coming from? And then you go back and you're like, oh my gosh, it was this moment in this experience that I didn't really realize was activated, but then it took this amount of time to like surface and bloom and become what it is. And I think, you know, that's also really special to, to get some time in and be able to come back and see, but for, for people kind of trying to understand or maybe to allow them not to feel disappointed that they didn't have this huge moment, like sometime it is just little and imperceptible, but it becomes something important later. And, and I think that's another really magical thing to be able to witness in, in working this way.
Elinor: Absolutely. It's, it's so rewarding and, um, yeah, that's why we do it and that's why we keep going even, you know, at those moments when running a travel business is tough, you know, because, uh, we know that it can be so impactful on people's lives. So it keeps us inspired.
Christine: Yeah. Well, Elinor, thank you so much. I am thinking of like 20 other questions that I wish that I could ask you right now. So perhaps there'll be a, a part two to our conversation, but before we end, I just have a series of, uh, seven rapid fire rapid fire ish questions, which I know you listened to the podcast, so you're probably familiar with some of these, but we'll, uh, we'll jump into those. Um, the first is, what are you reading right now?
Elinor: Oh, um, right now I am reading, um, uh, what is it called? <laugh> Radical Self-Compassion by Kristen Neff. Oh my gosh, must read. Yes.
Christine: I feel like that one was just recommended by someone else perhaps. So I need to look at that one. <laugh>. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Elinor: Oh, um, oh, honestly, like, uh, a massage ball for rolling muscles. Yeah, that's critical.
Christine: I, um, I actually just was gifted one of those at a women's travel event recently that's made out of cork, so it's really nice because it's super light. But I had the worst kink in my shoulder from flying and I was like, I wish I had one of those travel balls that all these people always talk about. And I got one and it was miraculous. And so now that is also always in my backpack when
Elinor: Traveling call. Good call.
Christine: Um, so to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is a place that you would still love to sojourn?
Elinor: Oh, that, that I haven't been to yet.
Christine: Sure.
Elinor: But, um, oh my gosh. Uh, well, um, I guess Bhutan, I am really intrigued by Bhutan. Um, we've got a group there now, but I haven't been yet myself, so I gotta, I wanna go there. Yeah. It looks amazing.
Christine: Yes, I agree. That's a place that I feel like has some real special energy that I would love to explore. Um, what do you eat that imme immediately connects you to a place that you've been?
Elinor: Oh gosh. Um, honestly, like really gourmet olives remind me of being in Spain where, I mean, I am just crazy for Mediterranean cuisine and, um, so I, I buy the most expensive olives you can get at the grocery store in the hopes that <laugh>, I can feel a little bit of that. It's never the same, you know, as the olives they have in Spain, but I can pretend for just a moment. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. So I'm getting ready to travel for a year with my girls and one of the first places we're spending a long amount of time in is Spain. And just yesterday I was thinking, cannot wait to eat olives in Spain. I don't know why, cuz I have not yet done it, but apparently that is the right thing to be wishing for
Elinor: <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing.
Christine: <laugh>. Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Elinor: Oh gosh. Um, well, uh, so many people. Um, I would say my, my grandmother to be honest, um, uh, she was a world traveler and a very independent woman. Um, and, uh, and so yeah, I I think that, uh, even though she didn't travel much, you know, by the time I, I was, uh, you know, and a young adult, um, but, uh, I knew that about her and, and I think it, it kind of influenced me in a kind of a subconscious way that yeah, that, that is just what kind of independent worldly women do is, is travel.
Christine: Mm-hmm. Uh, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Elinor: Oh, um, I did not think about this in advance, so it's such a good question. I can't even imagine. Um, well this is gonna sound crazy, but like, I've been reading a lot lately about ancient Egypt and I'm just kind of fascinated by ancient Egypt. And so I, I would, I would wanna go on a trip with Cleopatra. I mean, she sounds like one badass woman and um, I bet it would be interesting <laugh> Yeah. To do that.
Christine: Um, I'll have to look for and share with you, there was a Egypt exhibit, um, at the Natural History Museum in Denver and they, I picked up a book all about like women in the history of, of Egypt, cuz I was really curious about all these other, uh, female figures in, in that area. So I'll have to share that with you cuz I think Cool. Yeah, there's, it would be very interesting to experience through their, the context of what their experience was living in that time. Um, the last one is, uh, Sola Travel is a space for, uh, recognizing women in the industry. Is there one woman who you admire and would love to recognize in this space?
Elinor: Um, uh, wow. Well, I'm, I, I've just been so fortunate to have, uh, met so many amazing women, especially in the last couple years, going to some of the wonderful events, um, that, that you and I both been to. Um, well, I, I guess I, I would really think about, um, our, our lead retreat leader is a woman, uh, Charlotte Reno. She's just an incredible woman because she, she's Danish, she lives in Colorado. She's currently in Bhutan leading one of our retreats. She's traveled to so many countries, um, and she's just an amazing person to, um, be on our team because this work just comes so naturally to her. It's so naturally aligned with who she is and, um, she is able to really, you know, usher people through this journey, not just the outer journey. But the inner journey, in a way, unlike anyone else I've ever seen. And, um, she truly has a gift for it. And, um, so I, I just feel so fortunate to have her on her team and she's just incredible. Um, and anyone who gets to travel with her is so lucky. Um, so yeah, she's definitely someone, she inspires me an incredible amount.
Christine: Thank you. Thank you for recognizing her. And I also love, um, that you recognize someone on your team. I think that's one of, been one of the, the most amazing things about growing a business is like the people that you get to kind of bring into your sphere and work with and the, the think, the intentionality that you can put into that as you are starting to work with people and like corporate culture, which is one of the questions I had wanted to ask you. That will have to be a part two, but I, I just think there's something really to be said about that experience too, as, as a business owner. And so I love that that is who you mentioned. Um, well, thank you so much. Uh, I have really looked forward to having this conversation, and I'm so grateful that you were here to spend this time with us today and with my listeners. So thank you. Thank you.
Elinor: Thank you, Christine. It's been an honor and I, I've really enjoyed the conversation, so thank you so much.
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