Episode 140 - Katie Broadhurst, Peak Flow OBM
Inspired to ride the highs and lows of the tourism and travel industry, Peak Flow Online Business Management leads the charge to create systems and processes that help travel businesses thrive.
In this episode, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Katie Broadhurst, Online Business Manager and Travel Systems Specialist and co-founder of Peak Flow OBM, a business management agency specializing in supporting adventure travel and tourism businesses with software & processes.
As a passionate, process-driven Certified Online Business Manager, Katie specializes in helping travel-based businesses get organized, automate, and get found. Combining her software knowledge, productivity expertise, and over 15 years working in the adventure travel & tourism industry with her OBM skills, Katie has developed the drive to help her clients take their businesses to the next level.
It brings Katie joy to watch clients transition from confused and unorganized to calm, confident decision-makers. When she’s not helping entrepreneurs online, you can find her outside enjoying nature - hiking, biking, paddle boarding, and skiing - with her partner Will and our pup Zaya. They usually spend ski seasons in the Kootenay region of British Columbia and summers exploring in our '84 Winnebago.
Demystifying “Tech Stacks” for Adventure Tourism
Christine shares that like many other tourism and travel business owners, many myths and terms can muddy the waters of creating sound technology systems to support their businesses.
Katie explains: “In the IT space, or the information technology space, they have their own language. You’ve heard terms like SAAS, SEO, and Tech Stack. Those are very common information technology industry terms that we’re sort of adopting here in the travel space, because we’re also using those terms and solutions.
Tech Stack: The combination of software you’re using to run your business.
SAAS Solutions (Software as a Service): Everything that you’re using as software for your business; usually subscription-based and hosted on the Cloud.
The Cloud: Where you access software and store files—on the internet.
CRM: Customer relationship management software.
With software much more affordable than it used to be, and with infinitely more options for building itineraries, hosting CRMs, and booking trips, Katie believes that it’s become the age of the small business and entrepreneurs.
For many business owners who try to learn on their own, an OBM (online business manager) who swoops in and brings their expertise and advice into the mix is a perfect solution.
Katie describes her Peak Flow process, beginning with an audit that reveals all the systems and software currently in place. Next, Katie looks for travel-specific solutions and makes recommendations, often providing software demonstrations to help business owners become more familiar with specific tools.
Katie also runs workshops in her Facebook group, which makes time and space for Katie to showcase her own systems and give tips to users for using software creatively– for example, learning how not to use your email inbox as a project management tool.
Looking Ahead: How Should We Scale?
The core tech stack that Katie bangs her drum about often is a CRM system, a place that lives in software (again, that isn’t your email inbox!) where you securely store the information about contacts you have made throughout your business. In travel, Katie shares, a CRM system is one of your biggest assets for leveraging past happy clients and creating repeat business.
Katie shares that creating a way to share a digital experience of your travels is something coming into the pipeline. Having an inventory management system is yet another top-tier problem to solve with tech.
Had she known about YouLi even six years ago, Katie shares, she would have saved countless hours of creating, organizing, and managing systems for group travel planning. She loves its ability to allow travelers to book online and allows business owners to create customizable checklists and itineraries.
Digital document signing, using tools for providing exemplary customer service through ticketing, and trip documentation are also items to keep an eye on as you create or modify your systems.
Katie emphasizes the power of building community when it comes to growing your business, and loves sharing her tips and tools with small businesses working in the travel and adventure space.
“It’s been really encouraging to just be able to share. Even if nothing else, but to show up and give people my 2 cents of what I think could work for them.”
Soul of Travel Episode 140 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Katie discuss:
Love of outdoors and adventure guiding
Transitioning from adventure guiding to behind the scenes
Information management for travel business owners
Travel tech and how we can use it to simplify and strategically grow our businesses
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Katie Broadhurst.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #11: Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about Peak Flow OBM.
Check out Katie’s workshop for travel professionals, “Find Your Freedom with Automation.”
Follow Katie and Peak Flow OBM on your favorite social media network!
Connect with Katie on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Twitter, or join Peak Flow OBM’s Facebook Group.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Carla Campos (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Soul of Travel Episode 140 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Katie Broadhurst graduated with a diploma in adventure tourism business and never imagined going from being an adventure guide to an online business manager. After RAF guiding teaching skiing and ski patrolling in Alberta and Newfoundland for years, she was hired by Wild Women Expeditions. While completing her Bachelor of Education, Katie worked part-time developing risk management plans, supporting client reservation management, and setting up the online tools needed to manage everything about the business. Fast forward seven years and she was leading the Adventure Program team, managing the transition to Online Office 2.0, training new staff to oversee critical processes and discussing strategy regularly with the ceo. With over a decade of guiding and managing adventure trips globally and almost eight years of online business management under her belt, Katie decided it was time to follow her own dreams and launch Peak Flow online business management. In our conversation, Katie and I discuss her love of the outdoors and her early years as an adventure guide, moving behind the scenes and learning how much she loves information management. And then we talk about travel tech and how we can use it to simplify and strategically grow our business. Love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Katie Broadhurst.
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm really excited today to be bringing you this conversation with Katie Broadhurst, who is an online business manager, and she runs Peak Flow, um, business management, and she is kind of like my secret tool to success. So I really want to share her with you and you'll understand a little bit more about what that means as we go through this conversation. Um, but Katie, welcome so much to the podcast. Great to be here, Christine. Thanks for having me. Thank you. So, um, with Online Business Business Management, um, part of what I was sharing with her being my se secret to success is it's been really important in the growth and agility of my business because there's been a lot of things that I can't do as a solopreneur in my business. And I was really struggling trying to figure out how on earth I was going to scale.
And somehow we connected in the universe in, uh, some sort of women's leadership group or somewhere in LinkedIn or something like that. But we had a conversation, um, and you gave me this great roadmap for kind of strategizing growth. You had such a great way to step back, look at what I had in place, where my weaknesses were, where my strengths were, and what I could do to really put things into place to take me forward. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, how businesses can use this to their advantage. But before we get there, I would like to give you a moment to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit more about peak Flow, and then we're gonna talk about how you got into the tourism industry to begin with.
Katie: Great. Awesome. That was a, a stellar introduction. Uh, so hi everybody. I'm Katie. Um, I've been working in travel and tourism my entire career. Um, so about, well, it's been longer than 15 years, but 15 years full-time <laugh>, let's say. Um, and peak flow online business management became what it is today. Um, as a pivot in the pandemic, like many people, my, uh, career path at the time I was gonna be opening my own tour company in Newfoundland and be guiding hikes in gross, more national park. Uh, got totally derailed and I needed an idea and a way to continue to earn some income while being trapped at home and stuck in Newfoundland. Um, so I created, uh, this business to help, um, the travel and tourism space pivot online. So basically I just took a few freelance gigs to help people set up, uh, you know, solutions like resd for online bookings to help them work on their website.
Just all that little bit of backend stuff that all of a sudden everyone had time to now look at, reevaluate and think about. Um, and that was really, um, kind of the, the first step into the journey. And today, peak flow online business management is a small team of three, and we support, uh, business owners in the small to medium size, uh, with predominantly software setups, uh, but also some strategy planning and as well as just behind the scenes support, um, which can come in the form of some operations, management, marketing support. Uh, and for some of my clients when they're outta the office, like I check their emails and, uh, you know, really, really cover for them in full. So, um, I would say that we're sort of like a, an operations manager mixed with like a supercharged executive assistant who happens to be very tech savvy. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. And I, yes, I back up all of those claims wholeheartedly. I actually was thinking about when, it was about a week before I was headed to one of my first travel events after the pandemic, and I realized that I didn't have a really efficient way for travelers to actually book the trips that I was gonna be selling at the event. Like I had a way they could do it, but as I was realizing how many people were gonna be there, that if I started talking to a bunch of people, my system wasn't gonna be efficient. And so I called you and I'm like, okay, I just realized I have a gap. And you so easily were like, okay, this is how I would resolve it. Here's two options. What do you think? Sounds good. And basically, like before I got on the plane to have this, the event, I was heading there with a solution in place.
And I think for businesses like myself, like that is so important because again, going back to me being the only person, you know, that's not, maybe not my strong suit or I don't have time for that and working with you, I really realize the permission I could give myself to delegate some of those things instead of trying to teach myself how to do it and learn it and then maybe not do it very good <laugh> once I was executing it. But, um, yeah, so I have really loved also seeing that, uh, support in some of my other friends businesses as well. Um, you mentioned that you have been in the industry for over 15 years and, um, that you really got into the industry early on. Can you share, um, what that journey looked like for you? I know you started as a rafting guide even in high school, and then, um, kind of evolved throughout the years, but I'd love to hear a bit of your journey.
Katie: Yeah, sure. So I grew up in what is called Whitewater region, uh, outside of Canada's Capital City Ottawa. And, um, and that is where the Ottawa River is. And the Ottawa River is a world class whitewater kayaking and rafting destination. So that was in my backyard. Um, I grew up in a dairy farm, so my very first skill was actually farming and then tourism. Um, but I was started working at the rafting company Yes, in high school. Um, you know, before I was old enough, I I was in the kitchen and, you know, doing, uh, serving and stuff like that. And then I did evolve to, to do the raft guiding. Um, and then I, I took a program called Outdoor Adventure Tourism in College. And so that was a two year program that was solely focused on, um, becoming an adventure guide basically. And on the side, cuz you have to do some theory classes, we did things like accounting and business planning and marketing and, uh, risk management and, uh, leadership and different topics like that.
But our field work was all around guide certification. So we did all the Paddle Canada courses, um, you know, rock climbing, high angle rescue, um, ice climbing, skiing. Um, and we got certified to be instructors in a very, very wide variety of sports. So coming outta that program, um, obviously there was a very strong skillset, uh, for both the actual, um, guiding but also sort of like supporting small businesses. A lot of adventure tourism businesses are run, you know, fa family, family-based businesses basically, right? They're one, two people, small team of guides and it runs you very seasonally. Um, so I spent my first couple of seasons in British Columbia, Canada, um, uh, doing horse pack guiding whitewater, uh, rafting and kayaking, um, in an area called Kananaskis near Banff National Park. Um, studying location, uh, learned all about bears living in that area. Um, and then yeah, migrated back to Newfoundland, uh, which is where I spent, uh, basically most of my twenties was on the east coast of Canada on a, on a big island there that many people don't know about, but incredible outdoor destination.
And I was a ski patroller there, a ski instructor. Um, I also was a hiking guide. Uh, I was able to write a hiking guide book because that province had no resources in regards to the trails there. So I collaborated with some other people there to write the hiking guide book called Hikes of Newfoundland. Uh, so that was a pretty fun project. Um, during that time I also went back to school because I was like, I'm making no money and I still have all my student debt. Um, and seasonal working at a ski hill, you know, guiding a couple months in the summer in gross, more national park wasn't helping me deal with my student debt. Um, so I went back and did my Bachelor of Education. So I am also a, uh, certified teacher here in Canada. So, uh, that paired with the guiding was really just sort of a natural little trend of, um, I love teaching, I love talking, I love showing people how to do things, um, et cetera, et cetera.
And, uh, during that time I started work with Wild Women Expeditions. I was back in university, had decided on this career change. Jen found me, I guided for wild women in Newfoundland. And over time we developed a strong relationship and, uh, she brought me into the business more and more, uh, to help her with things like her risk management planning and, um, and then eventually managing some of the client communications and, uh, helping her get this business up and going, uh, that she had just purchased and had very little experience in that industry. Um, so together we yeah, collaborated on sort of growing, uh, that business. Um, and, uh, you know, from her I learned a, a lot of things about marketing, um, and, you know, just the kind of grit and, uh, determination that's kind of needed in those early years of business to just push through.
Right. Um, you know, she had just pivoted, uh, she just had a new baby. They just moved to Newfoundland and then she bought this business. So there was a lot, uh, on her. And, um, I just really admired her determination to work through all of that and to, to, um, to also choose where to delegate. And Jen gave me a lot of freedom in the backend of wild women to develop, um, different systems and processes so that we could, um, scale up the business over time. Yeah. And so I spent eight, almost eight years, seven and a half-ish with, uh, wild Women Expeditions going from the, you know, almost the, the day and year that Jen bought the company, um, until about 2019 when I decided to make my own change. Um, yeah, building everything in the backend, training the team, um, yeah, teaching everyone how to use the different systems.
Um, went through sort of two big software changes, uh, with the company. Created a lot of the SOPs and the documentation, did all the, you know, risk management planning, supplier agreements, contract negotiations. But I also got to do a lot of the fun stuff, which was the travel side of things, which meant leading groups in Mongolia and Nepal and spending over four months in Iceland riding those beautiful Icelandic horses and, um, and, you know, seeing some of the world as well. So, um, I think that was a really, really fun and exciting time for me. And that was really the, um, maybe the keystone to building my confidence when it came to using TE technology to solve problems, particularly with data management in regards to client information. Um, and that's where a lot of the solutions that I still lean on today, like having a C R M system, for example, um, and or a booking online booking tool right.
Really started, um, there. And I was, it was really great to be able to have that as a learning opportunity, um, but also have somebody believe that I could do it and give me the autonomy to do it and just kind of make it happen. Um, so Jen definitely gave me, yeah, a lot of confidence and uh, and opportunity to learn there. And then, um, after, yeah, I stepped back, we did some personal travel, took a little bit of time off. I had hadn't had a summer off since I was 13, <laugh> or something, cuz that's what tourism's like, um, we just, uh, traveled around in our rv. I worked a little bit of, you know, side construction stuff. We took a two month trip down south, sailed with some friends in The Bahamas, backpacked around Belize, and then the pandemic happened <laugh>. And so our whole plan to open our hiking business in Newfoundland went down the drain and I started peak flow as the way to, again, come in and just provide support, um, in the online space, um, for a lot of that software set up as businesses were starting to really pivot to like, okay, we really do need to have clients be able to book on our website, right?
That's what the pandemic kind of pushed through. And it really just pointed out to me that gap that was still in our industry that sort of, you know, people who are guides, it's, it's like working with the construction folks, right? They're, they're hands-on people, they wanna be outside, they wanna be moving their bodies. They, they want to, they want to, they wanna lead, they wanna show people how to climb, they wanna do all this stuff. They're, they don't wanna sit at their desk and they don't wanna do software and they know they need the technology, but it's just not their thing, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, that's where, yeah, I just thought I could sort of step in and provide some of that support. And that's what we've been doing now for the last three years is yeah, fixing websites and setting up Yuli accounts and Res D bookings and, um, doing s e o, uh, for businesses so they can, uh, have a greater digital presence. And we've just been on this nonstop, also learning curve, um, running our own business. So it's been exciting.
Christine: Thank you, uh, so much for sharing all of that. I, I loved, first off, just hearing about your educational background. I, I do not think the US has something similar to the type of experience that you had learning to be a guide. I feel like any of the times when I talked about the fact that I would love to lead trips or be a guide or do any of that, people just kind of looked at you like, well, what on earth are you talking about? There was no formalized structure for that to be, at least when I was in university. Perhaps now they have come along with something like that. But I love that you were able to get such a diverse background in so many different things that was so aligned with who you are to be able to do that. Um, and then also, you know, kind of realizing the seasonality of tourism and then that kind of helps you to realize the balance you have to create within the industry, like in a broader scale.
So you know that there are always gonna be these highs and lows in the industry that obviously going through the pandemic, you can see that on a scale we never anticipated there would be highs and lows in the industry. And, um, I love that you were then also able to take kind of all of those experiences you had with wild women and pull that into analyzing what was happening now and what other people's needs were going to be, and then what you could do to step up into that space. I think, again, this really speaks to this way of visioning that you have that that is so cool when you're working with you because you, you just are able to kind of like scan and pinpoint and then like create an action plan. Um, so I love watching, uh, you do that. And I can kind of see through your journey maybe a little bit how that evolved.
Um, as you just started talking, you started throwing out, um, all of the things that I think many of us in the industry become very quickly intimidated by, uh, when you're throwing out all the s e o and tech stack and Res D and the technology. So I think as you mentioned, one, it's maybe not many of our natural skill sets, <laugh> and two, not the thing we wanna be spending our time on. Um, how do you walk, um, adventure business owners through some of that discomfort and how, um, also for people listening, if you were gonna kind of demystify some of these terms, let them know for one, you know, you asked me what's in my text talk when we first started meeting, and I'm like, Katie, I don't have a text stack. I have no idea what you're talking about. And you're like, okay, I know you do. Um, so I think also some of it is that we just don't know kind of what we have in place. We don't understand that maybe we are already doing some of the things, there's a gap in our own knowledge, but I'd love to kind of just spend a little time kind of missed busing busting in this area. <laugh>.
Katie: Yeah, sure. So let's start with a couple of key terms. Um, could you get that outta the way? And then I'll circle back to your, your first question about sort of how I walk people through that. Um, so with terminology, it's like when you walk into any industry, right, there's gonna be certain language and, um, and in the IT space or the information technology space, right? They have their own language. And so you've heard terms like sas and you've heard s e o and you've heard Tech Stack. Those are very common, um, information technology industry terms that we're sort of adopting over here in the travel space because we are also using those tools and solutions, right? So tech stack is one of those terms as you brought up, and everyone who's running a business already has one. It's just the combination of software that you're using to run your business, okay?
That's all it is. For some people, it will be, uh, a longer list of software than others that is a little bit dependent on the size of your business. Um, and or it will be, you know, bigger or smaller depending on what types of solutions you're looking for. Some people can get away with a pretty tight tech stack. I have one client who's a Microsoft Suite user, and they have another, uh, itinerary and CRM system Oasis, and that's their deal. Like, they just use everything within those things to their very fullest capacity. So they have a very sort of small tech stack as it were, right? And then other companies will use, you know, a a separate, uh, itinerary software, a separate CRM system, and then maybe have like the Google suite, right? So they just have one extra piece of software, um, because they wanted a certain, you know, functionality or whatever.
Um, and so that's why they have a separated itinerary builder and CRM system, for example. So that's all it is. And your tech stack includes your website, whether that's on Squarespace or WordPress or Wix. It includes your cloud hosting that is serving your website. Um, it includes your, um, accounting software, right? Like things like QuickBooks, um, it might include Zoom, right? Um, and then for yourself, you know, you've got your podcast, uh, you know, editing software and people that do some video production would have video software. So that just all those software solutions are your tech stack. That tech stack is basically entirely com comprised of SAS solutions. And that is S A S S, and that's just an acronym that stands for SA software as a service. And this is a fairly new thing that's available to us. Um, this was, you know, not as available 15 years ago.
Um, but basically everything that you're using from your Google workspace to your Zoom is a software as a service. You sign up, you pay a monthly subscription fee, and we are no longer inserting, you know, floppy discs or CDs into our computers to install software to run it off of our hard drive, right? We aren't doing that anymore. Everyone is using SaaS. And that SaaS basically also means it's a cloud solution, and cloud also just means that you access it via the internet. So that is the SaaS and the cloud services are the two things that exploded during the pandemic. We saw, you know, prices of those services fall, we saw a bazillion new apps get launched, we saw all kinds of things just, yeah, it was like a explosion of life <laugh> if, uh, you know, GE geological terms there, um, that happened during that time because all of a sudden this is what we needed, right?
And so the reality that we often forget about is that software is so much more affordable now than it ever has been because there is such a variety of options in the marketplace. There's not one itinerary builder anymore. There are 25, right? There's not a couple of CRM systems that are gonna cost you, you know, a hundred thousand dollars to set up on your corporate intranet solution anymore, right? Like, we are past that and it is the age of the small business and the entrepreneur because of cloud and SaaS solutions, right? So that's a really exciting place to be and it's really cool, um, to be, yeah, to be kind of keeping an eye on like just what's coming up and what's being developed. So when it comes to kind of walking small business owners through a lot of this tech stuff, um, most of the clients we work with, uh, as you alluded to Christine, like you guys have tried, you have started, you know, and you have gotten things to a certain point.
So people are often coming to us with an existing tech stack, which is great, um, because it sh it, it is important you to, to try and to stumble and to learn, right? Um, and then there will, there, there's either, there's a tipping point for, for each person, which is like, I don't wanna do this, and I'm weighing over my head out of your comfort zone, right? Um, and or, you know, um, you, you invest the time to get the training and you, and you forge ahead and you learn, right? And a lot of small businesses are, are, are in that place where because of budgetary constraints, et cetera, et cetera, they will forge ahead and try to learn on their own, um, which is great. And they will then reach out to people like us for just kind of these sort of very, you know, extra niche or I just need this particular thing done, right?
Um, and we could just sort of swoop in and bring our expertise in, have it done sometimes in a day. That's what our v i p day service is for, uh, for that kind of quick turnaround, uh, problem solving service. Um, and then, um, and so yeah, we sort of usually audit kind of what they have and you know, what, if it's working for them, great, we're just gonna help them use it better, right? And then if there is something that is missing, like having the ability to just book directly, you know, on online, whether that's on your website or in a, a service like, you know, perhaps Yuli for example, um, that we will, you know, make those recommendations and sort of talk them through how it works. Um, I often do a software demo for, for a new, uh, client. If they're not familiar with the tool, if they've already done a bunch of their own background research and they have a sense of what it is and how it works, then that conversation goes a little bit faster.
But if people are sort of new, um, to a piece of software, um, whether it's uly or a crm like keep, then um, often we'll do like a demo and I will just take them through the backend, kind of show them around as an agency. Um, a lot of these software companies give us a, a, you know, like a demo account so that we can do that, right? We can take you in there, show you around, um, answer any questions that you have, give you some real life examples. And that's really what it takes for most people, because I think as, um, as guides and tour leaders and people in the travel space, you're, you're visual learners, but you're also kinesthetic learners, which means you kind of learn by doing. And so the best way for me to then communicate that is by taking you in and showing you around and giving you the guided tour, right, of this new piece of software and explain in more detail how it would fit into your day-to-day world, how you would use it, how your customers would use it, what the front end user experience is like, and just kind of go from there.
So that's really a lot of my approach is always about showing people in real life what that looks like. So that's why I run workshops as well. Um, that's why I run my weekly workshop and my Facebook group, um, and have just made, yeah, a lot of time and space to show and kind of educate, I guess, like the industry about the different solutions that are available, kind of how they fit together and then take you guys back there, right? Like last week I talked about click up and I took you guys right into the backend of my click up account and, you know, set up some stuff, showed people how to use it as a C R M, how to use it to plan their, their marketing and how they could use it for trip operations. And just to keep track of everything, all of in place and get away from using your inbox as a project management tool cuz it's not <laugh>. Um, anyways, another whole rabbit hole. We could go down there. But, um, yeah, so that's, that's how I help and show people and communicate the technology to people.
Christine: Yeah, and I think it's so helpful because, you know, obviously any of these tools and resources they have, you know, you can watch a YouTube video, I'm sure I've watched a dozen on click up, but if I see someone using it in a completely different way, then I would use it. I look at it and I'm like, I don't actually think that's for me. But if you, with the background that you have, know exactly how it can be utilized by an industry professional can come in and show us how to use it, it's such a different experience. And I just think that is what is really unique as well about the, you know, the way you're able to work with clients is cuz you can really come at it from, like, I know things I might have needed if I was a hiking guide and I know some things I might have needed if I was running the back end of a tour operator, and I know things I use in my business today.
Like you can really create a broader understanding coming from all of these different contexts. And so I think for me personally, that's been really helpful. But I, I think it's also just really interesting to see how the technology can be used. And as you were talking and talking about like the cr old c r m systems and the way that it had to go into, you know, the, the, the company's intranet. I just remember probably almost 20 years ago now when I was working for a tour operator and we got our new systems and like the 17 tech people that were in there trying to make that work and how difficult it was in ops when we were working. And I'm like, okay, now I understand where my intimidation of tech comes from <laugh>. Um, because it was such a different landscape and you did have to be a major business to be able to take advantage of those things.
And so you were talking about all of the changes that have really occurred that are allowing so many people to, um, create more professional, um, businesses that they can scale easily because of the affordability and the ease to access. Um, you know, and this a lot was due in part to the pandemic, but um, also for people needing to be able to work remotely book travelers from all over the world. What kind of shifts do you think have beyond what you mentioned been really important coming out of that and will be important for, um, businesses that you work with to be able to scale in the future?
Katie: Yeah, so I think from a a software side, um, the core tech stack that I talk about and bang the drum on a lot is the CRM system. Having some place that's not your inbox, where you can keep track of all of your contacts because you are gonna have people reaching out to you, possibly from all over the world, all kinds of different time zones. Um, again, it depends on your business structure and whether you're, you know, um, you know, a one-time, you know, rafting company type of visitor, or if you are in a, um, a lot of people who do custom travel have a really good opportunity for repeat business. And particularly in that example where you're trying to develop a, a community or a relationship and wanna nurture your repeat client's CRM system is one of your biggest assets. And, you know, that's a tool that you can start using for $30 a month, right?
It's like that to me is worth every penny because of your, of the sanity. It's gonna save you, um, within your business. The second thing would be some way to digitally sell your travel experience. So for the rafting company, the Sea Kayak tour operator, right? The hiking guide, um, that does a day tour, there's a whole suite of tools that will do the tour service, you know, selling bookable online, take full payment upfront kind of thing. Um, and we'll manage the inventory in the backend so that you can say three things are available, and as soon as one of those gets booked, the other two are now not available anymore. So that inventory management piece is also just a game changer for managing how much of something you can sell. If it's a busy July day, for example, right? In the, you know, multi-day travel space, there's sort of two realms, right?
There's the group tour company, which is where my background is with wild women, and gosh, I just wish I hadn't known about yuli or if it had have existed back in 2006, 7, 8, 9, 10 <laugh> and all the way up until 2019, right? I think it's about when it launched actually, like 20 18, 19, and that as soon as I saw that tool, I was like, I, I just, I, I just, I couldn't even comprehend how awesome it was and how many problems it would've solved for me as I was doing group travel planning for a women. I'm like, this is awesome. And I'm still on the bandwagon with yuli. I haven't gone off and I'm not planning to, because I haven't seen anything that is as comparable. Um, it allows travelers to book online. It gives them their own portal with their itinerary. And the task list is just the best to make sure that everyone's getting everything done before their trip.
They're showing up prepared with all their documents signed, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then on the like, custom space, having that, you know, library of content to be able to quickly build itineraries for your custom travelers is a game changer. Um, I've just finished supporting a, a client with their transition. They were already kind of making that transition. I was supporting them, um, from a very managerial standpoint, but the, we've increased their itinerary, uh, turnaround time by three acts, um, in, by moving away from Word documents and setting up a dedicated library solution there. Um, so the throughput right, is just, um, it's real. It's, yeah, it, it sounds like a number, but it's actually real. So they're handling three times as many clients and, um, trips and, you know, supporting their community, um, that way. So it's really quite profound. Um, so those are kind of the core things that I think are really kind of elemental and what's changing.
Um, I mean, digital document signing became a lot easier through the pandemic as well. That's gonna stay, I think especially when it comes to sort of travel agreements, uh, especially like with, um, travel designers, travel agent type businesses, um, you know, you wanna have all your ducks in a row and a lot of places, BC in particular has a very strong consumer protection law. And so there are certain, you know, regulations that you have, excuse me, you have to follow and ensuring that your customers are super aware of like what they're buying and making sure they get receipts that are correct out of, you know, um, out of your accounting system, but that they're also signing off on their, you know, travel terms and conditions. For example, um, in North America, you know, waivers aren't going anywhere, uh, for that like risk assumption and waiving of the liability.
So, you know, there's been some solutions around for a little bit wa a little, quite a bit now, but, um, you know, they're not going anywhere and they're super affordable, 10, $15 a month and you have your, your whole, you know, digital waiver thing taken care of, um, and just yeah, online booking. But I think the revolution that's sort of still to come in travel is really around the customer service side of things and using tools perhaps like HubSpot or Zendesk where, you know, clients will email or live chat or message you on Facebook and they all come into this one centralized communication center. And that's something that other industries have been using for a very long time, right? When you submit a ticket to you leave <laugh> cuz you need help with your software, that's what they're using, right? And so I think there's a lot of potential for the travel space and travel companies, uh, especially at a certain scale to have this sort of ticketing system so that their team can all see all the communications around Christine and her trip, right?
In this, you know, profile and on this thread. Um, and tickets can be marked as open or resolved, right? As opposed to like an email thread where you're like, did somebody get back to this person? And where did they leave off in the conversation? And now I spent 15 minutes trying to figure out like what did this was about and talking to this person over here and blah blah, blah. It's like, y'all are wasting a ton of time <laugh> when there could be right this great, you know, solution in place to ensure that the traveler questions are being taken care of in a timely manner. Everybody on the team knows that it's been taken care of or not. And you know, there can just be this like accountability to everybody making sure that that stuff is getting done and then it lives in the traveler's profile, right?
So that over time you can be like, okay, this person submits like 17 tickets every time they travel with us, like they are needy af but they've traveled with us 10 times, so they're a valuable client and you just kind of know, right? And you just, yeah, you can just build these better relationships with people, um, that way. So I think that's something that's still to come mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, in the space. And I'm sure that Intrepid and G adventures and a lot of those, you know, very super sized travel companies are using that stuff now. It's just a matter of, it kind of trickling down into the, the small to medium sized businesses over time.
Christine: Yeah. And I think some of that technology is also so important because as you mentioned, you know, working in smaller businesses or family owned businesses, all, all of that information that you just shared lives within someone, right? So they know like, this client has come every summer for the past 15 years and they know all the things, but they have not written it down anywhere. And if they decide that they're retiring and someone's taking over the business, all of that knowledge leaves with them. And so I think these systems are really amazing for, like you said, capturing that, holding onto it, making something be, uh, longer lasting. Um, really creating a way that you can serve your client more fully. And again, just I, like even, I keep going back to where I started in the industry as you're talking are talking, cuz it's really fun to reflect on what that means from then to now.
But I remember people being like, oh, this conversation could have been an email, right? So now it's, instead of that, you know, versus heading to someone's office, getting caught by someone in the coffee room on the way there and all of the things that happened, and it could have been a 32nd email, but we weren't used to doing it. Now some of this technology we maybe feel resistant to, but it will streamline things, keep things documented. And you were talking about the the u h UI checklist too, which for me is so great. Again, as the only person working in my business, it takes time for me to set it up or you to set it up for me and me to replicate <laugh>. Um, but now, like all my travelers immediately get all the emails they need, whereas I would've had to have had some other sort of system in place where I'm like, okay, did I send Katie the first email I did, but I'm not sure I got her the second email and I have to go back and look in my sent emails and see.
Um, so I just, it's really mind blowing to think about how this enables us to succeed in our businesses. And I think that for anyone listening, this is what I really just wanna get across, is how beneficial it is to your success. How this is your team. Like the, the things that technology does for me every day, um, without me having to be present to it. It's really just, um, so powerful to be able to, to create a stronger, uh, a stronger business giving me space to do other things that I am better at once these things are in place. So I just think there's so much possibility and, uh, we were also kind of joking about it, but there's new technology that happens every day and if you are needing something done and something automated in your business, if it doesn't exist today, it's probably going to exist tomorrow. And people should just, um, you know, really be curious about what technology could do for them instead of, um, you know, kind of being resistant to it. But what has, I know you mentioned a few of your favorite things, but if, if you had one favorite, uh, service or piece of tech that you would really want people to look into, what would it be?
Katie: It's, that's a really hard one because yeah, there's probably two that
Christine: I give us two
Katie: <laugh>. Um, my, I think I think top really is that CRM piece and CRMs can all look like, you know, for now, yuli is your CRM for who's on the trip, right? Um, but your crm, you know, can also be like your email list. And if you're using, you know, even a tool as simple as MailChimp, like you can go to those profiles, you can apply tags, you can keep notes in there so you don't have to go and rebuild the whole other system. But I really do encourage people to keep, to use something to keep track of each person and their interactions with your business and whether they've purchased or whether they've clicked or just what they're interested in so that you can have deeper, richer relationships with them. Everyone's really afraid of chat G B T. So let me go down this rabbit hole for just one quick second.
Um, and there's some, you know, reality to that, but what it's never gonna do is replace people and their relationships. So if you can use a CRM system to keep track of everything, like I know everything that you've purchased with me, for example, Christine, and it's on my CRM system, and you know, there are tags in place to remind me of how, you know, important and valuable you are to our company, um, so that we can have these types of relationships, right? And so that's something that, that technology can't take away, but it can help you with so that when you jump on a new travel call, you can pull up that person's profile and you can see which trips they've come on with you before and how much money they've spent with your business, right? What other things they're interested in. We used to, we used, um, keep or Infusionsoft with Wild Women and that once we put that in place was a game changer.
Cause women would call the office, I would pick up the phone and even though it was a client who'd, who I'd never worked with before, I could pull up their profile and see that they went canoeing on the Hanni River and they've been down to Peru and you know, now they were calling to inquire about going to Nepal. That's why they landed in my lap and I could screen them accordingly, right? And sell them on that trip or recommend something else that was gonna be a better fit for them, right? If they weren't quite ready for 18 days of Trek in the Himalayas <laugh>. Um, so it just, it really, it just helped so much to give everybody a better relationship, a better experience when they called the office and we could really tailor recommendations to people. Um, and then my second thing would really be just some kind of like I itinerary builder, like I'm so over word and PDFs, that to me, if you like, it's almost like a square word <laugh>.
Uh, and, and Excel to a point too, I know that Excel is great for pricing trips and you know, it's, it is a really powerful, um, solution. But again, it's not a project management tool and it's not a CRM system and it is not where your itineraries should be living. Okay? Um, and so whether you're gonna use yuli or you're gonna use Oasis Safari portal, like, I don't care what it's called, um, find something that can be your library of tours so that you can show, showcase them, right? Quit sample itineraries up on your website that people can just buy off the shelf. Um, allow yourself that, you know, drag and draw block builder so that you don't have to go and type everything out and copy and paste and format it and squeeze a picture in there and reformat it all. Like move on, give yourself the time back from doing those kinds of things is you can get an itinerary builder for as cheap as 25 bucks a month, right?
So for about $50 a month you can have a nice little simple CRM with soho and you can have a really nice clean, great itinerary builder with you mapped and you can change the whole just volume and relationships you can have with people in your business. And you can actually spend more time on sales calls, bringing money into your business and creating more itineraries every day to give to your travelers and grow your own business. You can scale it up without having to hire a team right away. And once you have those two things in place, your CRM system and your itinerary builder, I would say then, and you're at capacity and you still have people coming in the door, that is when would be a good time to consider a va an agency like us or hiring somebody, um, within your own team or like, whether that's an independent contractor, um, or an employee is totally up to the business owner. But, um, yeah, I would say really have those two things in place before you start to, to hire people. Get yourself as efficient as you can be. Cuz $50 a month is a lot cheaper than hiring, uh, a human to keep doing Word docs for you.
Christine: Yeah, I mean, I think that is just, um, so crucial. I mean, that is, like you said, that is your staff and um, it, it allows you kind of too to be in a spot where you can absorb the shock of the rise and fall a little bit easier too, because you aren't considering that other person that you're paying for, um, you that you want to keep on your staff. And so I think if you can grow kind of in this way supported by technology, you're, you kind of can grow past that tipping point a little bit with the, the useless technology as your buffer. And I've talked a lot with, um, some of my colleagues about that as like, how do we get to that place where we can bring on people because you need to get there so that you can scale to the next level, but there's almost a gap between where you are and needing support and then where you actually can afford that support.
And so it seems like this is the thing that can kind of get you through that, that difficult space. Um, before we end, Katie, one other thing I just wanted to talk with you about. Um, I know you work with a lot of small businesses. I mentioned that we spent, uh, we connected in virtual groups. I just wanted to talk about what community support, um, connection, being able to have colleagues, mentors, people that kind of also support you through this space. Um, what that has meant for you as a business owner and also kind of what you've seen within your community as businesses come into that space to collaborate and support each other also through some of their own growth struggles.
Katie: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. So, um, I'm, I'm a member to a couple of, uh, organizations. So the Adventure Trade and Travel Association is one group that I'm kind of, um, I'm a member of and I casually participate in. Um, and I like that one because it's, you know, super global. Um, and there's just so much, um, sharing I guess that happens in regards to how people ha especially during the pandemic. Um, that was the first group that I kind of joined and just the sharing that happened, like, this is what happened and this is how we handled it, right? And all the, you just sort of webinars and, um, just, uh, they, they called them think tanks, I think is what it was. And for two years, every month they just had to think tank on on different problems that people were facing. And it was really, um, insightful to participate in those both to learn what people were struggling with, um, but also to be able to provide ideas and give feedback or share solutions.
Um, because while sometimes I haven't always done, I'm never gonna have done everything I'm, I'm a human right? Um, but something that my brain is wired for is just coming up with ideas to solve problems. And a lot of it is theory crafting, um, and not necessarily always tested, but it's something that, um, that I'm just yeah, kind of wired to do. Um, and happy to also go in and test my own series, right? I can, I can get a software account too and I can, uh, do it and, and see if it will work before I, you know, come to somebody and say, this is gonna work for you. Um, and then the other space that I've been in now I think for about a year is the Women Travel Leaders Group. Um, uh, another sort of paid membership and, you know, that community has a lot of the same, um, pieces where there's a lot of just sort of sharing and collaboration.
Um, but I would say that one is on like a, yeah, a more intimate level, like I think is the word that I would use there. And, um, and that one is really a special space because there's a lot of vulnerability and people really sharing like exactly what they're doing, um, and what's working, what's not working, the challenges that they face. Um, and you know, in my business I also deal with some of those things like the how to get over the staffing hurdle, right? Um, kind of going through that right now with having my third team member and, um, you know, working through that so I can personally relate with running my own business. Um, but again, have have a lens on of, um, just kind of listening and taking things that people are struggling with. And then even if I don't mention something during a call, like I'll walk away from that and maybe write a blog post or maybe host a session in my Facebook group about that topic because it's something that, um, that, that somebody, somebody needs, right?
And um, and I think it's just been really encouraging to just be able to, to share, right? Even if nothing else, but to just, just to show up and, um, and, and give people, you know, my 2 cents of like what I think could work for them. Um, and I have had people, you know, kind of message me back and send really sweet personal notes of just like, that little, that one thing that you said really stuck with me and, you know, I've since done X, Y, and Z and like it was all just because you said this thing in this call, right? And, um, you don't know how how much of an impact you can have on people by just sharing. Um, and so that's always kind of been my, one of my big pillars is education and just sharing and, you know, um, if a tip helps somebody, then that's a win and I'm thrilled.
And if they eventually decide to come work with us, great. You know, that's awesome. And yes, we're a business and we do need clients as well. Um, but I'm not gonna like headhunt people and force people to come and work with us if it's not quite what they're ready for or, um, or if I don't think we can help them, right? Like some companies that are in the five, 6 million scale and, um, you know, teams of 25, 50 people, like, you know, I'm, I'm probably not gonna work with them, um, because they have a lot of that in-house probably. And I, uh, yeah, I just, it's not really the zone that I like, I really do like the, you know, teams of under 15 and, um, yeah, helping, helping those small and medium sized companies implement the technology and, and get that efficiency in place, um, so that they can kind of move forward in a, a, a nimble, uh, nimble capacity, right, with a lean team and get a bench done. And we're all just gonna have to con keep being agile, I think, um, moving forward. So the community thing is foundational, um, for myself to stay connected because as a small business, um, yeah, there's not a lot of stuff kind of locally necessarily, uh, to be involved with. There's definitely some and, um, but the, the global global space is always just like, I don't know, so inviting and refreshing and, um, welcoming as well. So
Yeah, there's lots, lots of good stuff out there.
Christine: Yeah, I think it's definitely been critical to my survival over the past few years, but also more than that, just something that I really enjoy, which I think, you know, being in the tourism industry, we are people who really love being with, connected with people all around the world. So that in and of itself is sometimes just the nourishment that we need. And I, I know I've been on many calls where people said like, you know, I actually just, all I need from this call is to be in this space today. Uh, you know, I don't need to learn anything. I don't have an ask, I don't have an offer. I just really wanna be in community. And I think for me, witnessing that really has been important because it really shows how important community is. And that's something that's been really important to me in my career and in my business.
So I, I just always, um, wanna emphasize that too for people who are looking for like one other way to support the growth of their business is that community is, is something if they don't already have something in place, something that they could look for. Um, and also always super happy to support people. So if you're hearing that and you have questions, reach out or anything that Katie mentioned, I'm sure she'd be happy to, to share as well. Um, well, before we wrap up our call, Katie, I just have a, uh, few rapid fire or rapid fire ish questions, um, to end the conversation. The first one is, what are you reading right now?
Katie: What am I reading right now? Well, personally, uh, historical fiction about the queens of England in the 15, 16 hundreds from written by a, uh, sort of, uh, feminist historian, uh, uh, type lady. Um, it was a tough time back then and I don't ever wish to go back. But, uh, professionally, systemology is my current read. I'm, uh, only about this far in presently. Um, but this is again about, um, just creating systems, right, uh, SOPs, uh, looking for bottlenecks, um, increasing efficiency, the whole shebang. Um, David Jennings is the author. He is, got a really great website, lots of good free resources there as well. Um, so that's that.
Christine: Yeah. Um, and the beloved s o p I can't believe that didn't come into our conversation, but that was one of the things that I definitely went into. And for my podcast I've had three different people, three, four different people who have worked in production with me. And halfway through that I did create that. And so it's so easy for me to just say like, here's how we do it, and it's all right here and it saves me a lot of time. And I know that was something I didn't wanna sit down and spend my time to create, but it has probably come back threefold now, um, for that as well. So <laugh> lesson learned. Katie's always happy when she has a good student <laugh>. Um, the next question, uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Katie: Probably earplugs.
Christine: Yes. Um, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you lived there for a short while. Where is a place that you would love to sojourn?
Katie: The loaded question, Christine. Um, I think up next, um, probably Southeast Asia.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Katie: Hmm. Black licorice covered in chocolate and connects me back to Iceland.
Christine: Oh my goodness. I love black licorice, but I have never seen it covered in chocolate. And that seems like that would be perfection.
Katie: <laugh>. It is perfection. Yeah. You can find it here and there, uh, in different grocery stores, but it's not as common. It's also, uh, kind of like a Dutch, I think it's also a Dutch thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's a Dutch store anywhere near you. That would be the other place to try. But yeah, that's good stuff.
Christine: Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Katie: My mom. Yep. She actually, um, found this, uh, the adventure tourism program for like for me at the time, I was gonna be a veterinarian, um, for the longest time being a farm girl. Um, and I just struggled with, uh, calculus and chemistry couldn't pass on to save my life. And I was having a teenager meltdown at the time. Uh, and she kind of came back and was like, well, you know, there are all these other options and things you can do with your life and you also don't have to choose right now <laugh>. And that was some of the best advice I've ever been given. Um, so yeah, my mom kind of encouraged me to go that route. She's like, Katie, you're the oldest of four. You've been, you know, managing a farm since you were 13. You're very capable. You're a good leader. You'd be an awesome guide. And, uh, off it went.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past two, would it be?
Katie: Ooh, I think I would probably have to go out with Prodo. Baggins
Christine: <laugh>. I think that's a first time name drop here on the podcast. That's great.
Katie: No way. He's one of my favorite adventurers
Christine: <laugh>. Um, uh, so solo travel is for honoring women in this space. Who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize here?
Katie: Ooh, there's so many of them. Someone that I really admire in the travel space is Ney Wright. She's the lawyer with the att t a. Um, and I just, I always love listening to her talk because she's so like, well-versed and professional and although she's a lawyer and in my mind she's like way up here, um, you know, she just like brings it right down to like the level that the rest of us can kind of connect with. And, um, yeah, I just really admire her work and I appreciate that she is very down to earth and she just feels like a really approachable person. Um, and I secretly am a total nerd about, uh, law and risk and uh, that kind of stuff. So yeah, I admire her quite a bit.
Christine: Thank you. Thank you for bringing her name into this space. Um, and thank you so much for being here and, um, sharing your journey, but also your passion for supporting businesses and their growth. And I hope that people listening really learned a lot and are examining the way they're operating their businesses and looking for ways that they can kind of streamline, grow and and scale as well.
Katie: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Christine. Um, again, if anyone is looking for, uh, some support, peak flow o bm.com, we also have our Facebook group, the Business of Adventure. Um, you can also hang out with us and our monthly, uh, WTL Circle community if you join that space. Um, often joining to part, just be in the community there. Um, and, uh, yeah, otherwise, uh, kind of on social. But um, yeah, hopefully this session has given you a little, one little nugget that you can kind of take and run with and don't be shy about reaching out if you have any questions along your journey.
Christine: Yeah, absolutely. I'll share all your contact information in the show notes as well as a link to your resources page, which is a place that I go a lot for, uh, answering my own questions, um, as well as the groups. So thank you for mentioning that. And yeah, thank you so much. I can't wait to hear other people's connections and stories and, and how you help them in their business.
Katie: Awesome. Thanks for having me.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.