Episode 142 - Poonam Rawat-Hahne, Fernweh Fair Travel - Uplifting Communities
Unraveling systems of oppression through community–based tourism begins with a decision to begin. The process is neither easy nor quick, but it is possible.
This week’s guest on the Soul of Travel Podcast, Presented by Journey Woman, is Poonam Rawat-Hahne, founder of Fernweh Fair Travel - Uplifting Communities.
Fernweh Fair Travel is a women-led organization offering powerful, authentic travel experiences and unforgettable mountain adventure sports in the majestic Indian Himalayas. Their goal is to empower and support communities through travel that positively impacts the local economy, culture, and environment.
Poonam is a consultant for community-based tourism, specializing in adventure, responsible, and regenerative tourism designing, development, and execution. She has a proven track record in product development, strategy planning, eco-accommodation, and transformational travel designing while positively impacting host communities and the environment.
Poonam has a strong passion for adventure, people, nature, spirituality, culture, and permaculture. She is on the committee of the board of directors in various prestigious organizations and is a volunteer firefighter in Germany. She is an ATTA ambassador and an accredited Transformational Travel designer.
"We are looking to develop business collaborations with companies that share our values. We offer guided tours that integrate nature-based adventures and spiritual retreats with Indigenous cultural activities in the Indian Himalayas for small groups. Our unique programs are curated to educate, connect, and transform travelers - as well as our community. " ~ Poonam Rawat-Hahne
The Journey to Creating Fernweh Fair Travel - Uplifting Communities
Poonam has been a traveler since she was born, never having lived in one place for more than three years at a time. For her, traveling is about soaking up the heart and culture of a company, which always lies with local people.
Her first solo trip was when she was a fourteen-year-old in India, and she has never looked back.
In 2005, Poonam and her family created a women’s shelter in the Himalayas to create a safe, supportive home for women of all ages. In 2009, when she had her first two children, a widow came to visit the shelter, pregnant with two daughters in tow. Poonam explains that when you are a widow in that part of India, you can never marry again; having children – especially daughters who would require a dowry – meant that she had been experiencing poverty since her husband’s death. Because her in-laws disapproved of the support the shelter would give her, the woman left. And Poonam could not sleep that night.
She went into the community and found many women who were widows and had experienced domestic violence. She knew she needed to do something and realized that her surroundings – the colorful clothing, the nature, the deep heart of India – could be the basis for a truly unique travel experience program.
Without any knowledge of the tourism industry but with a passion for travel and connection, Poonam fought for five years to create Fernweh Fair Travel.
Scaling Community-Based Tourism…Mindfully
The Western view of business success often has no end point; it’s about gaining revenue, impact, and success without a cap. In Poonam’s work, she explains, she wanted to create something for the community members to achieve part-time while doing additional work. Poonam plans to replicate this model in additional communities when that impact scales to its maximum capability. The goal is not to bring mass tourism to her community; it’s to create sustainable, meaningful, and authentic experiences.
With her ten-day trips, Poonam’s organization impacts hundreds of women each year. She explains that the women who work with her create a fund for the community, and when someone is sick or needs funds, they can take a loan from the collective to take care of every family’s needs.
She explains that one of the first steps to bringing tourists to an area is to promise payment for the village while asking them to keep it clean. This model has worked tremendously because women feel safer and more secure with some money in the bank.
Farm stays, village hostesses and guides, and more women behind the scenes ensure that as many women are involved as possible in the program. This way, the impact is measurable and expansive while remaining sustainable and reasonable.
Traveling With Community in Mind
As travelers, we can think about the broader impact of community-based tourism and seek to understand the far-reaching effects of our travels. Poonam explains that she teaches her travelers that every time they step into a village, they support women – not by donating, but by experiencing their homes and lives.
Businesses, too, can find ways to put their finger on the pulse of the effects of tourism by connecting with organizations like Fernweh Fair Travel.
Transformational Travel + Community Travel
Poonam designs her experiences around nature, people, and culture. She intentionally designs uncomfortable situations (within reason!) to create a space for transformation. With the opportunity to interact with one another and host community members, solve new problems, and connect more deeply with the community’s workings, travelers are changed by the experience – and that exchange has a positive impact in both ways.
Poonam is seeking Business-to-Business connections to create relationships with businesses that will bring travelers through the Fernweh Fair Travel experiences. She is also seeking impact-driven organizations to increase the positive impact of travel worldwide.
“Because we all come from different cultures, different upbringings, what I request from our travelers is that when they are coming, have an open mind and an open heart. If you have this attitude, trust me: One hundred percent, you will be transformed.
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Soul of Travel Episode 142 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Poonam discuss:
How a ten-day trip impacts the lives of 607 women
Transformational travel through community-based tourism
Connecting with values-aligned partners to support strategic growth harmonious with community needs
Designing adventures based on nature, people, and culture
Following your dreams and your soul’s work with grit and determination
Finding our way through burnout and back to our vision
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Poonam Rawat-Hahne.
LOVE these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast! Make a difference by making a donation on PayPal.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #11: Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about Fernweh Fair Travel - Uplifting Communities!
Connect with Poonam on LinkedIn, or follow Fernweh Fair Travel - Uplifting Communities on Instagram or Facebook!
For your copy of The Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield, visit your local bookstore.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Jennifer Broome (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of 2022’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
Soul of Travel Episode 142 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Poonam Rawat-Hahne is a consultant for community-based tourism, adventure, responsible and regenerative tourism, designing development and execution. She's an adventure travel trade association ambassador and an accredited transformational travel designer. Pum is also the founder of fwe Fair Travel Uplifting Communities. In 2005, Bachan Charitable Trust opened a women's shelter for underprivileged women in remote villages of the Indian Himalayas. Realizing this wasn't enough to create lasting impact and that the women needed sustainable income, Pune began to combine her passion for travel and social good, to create Fernway Fair Travel. She works with local communities to help train and develop their skills. As artisans, tour tour guides and homestay hosts creating experiences that uplift rural communities, help guests leaves transformed with a deeper understanding of the local culture. In our conversation, she shares how a 10 day trip actually impacts 607 women, and how she creates those opportunities. She also shares how she is working with intentionally selected values aligned partners to support strategic growth that is harmonious with community needs. We also talk about how we stay committed to our dreams, the grit and determination it takes to bring these dreams to life, and finding our way through burnout. And back to our vision, love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with pun Han.
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Um, I am delighted today to be joined by my friend, um, Poonam Rawat-Hahne. And she is joining me from Germany. And, uh, we have been having a bunch of really informal and fun conversation before this episode, so I hope that some of that energy carries into our conversation. Um, she is the founder of FWE Fair Travel, and she is very passionate about community-based tourism and transformational travel. And as my listeners know, those are some of my favorite topics, so I can't wait to bring her into the show. Welcome, Poonam.
Poonam: Thank you so much for Christine <laugh> for having me here. Thank you so much. Uh, yeah, let's go. Let's see. <laugh>, yes, <laugh>.
Christine: Um, well, the first thing I would love to do is just give you the opportunity to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your business, and then we'll, uh, move forward from there.
Poonam: So, I am Poonam Rawat-Hahne <laugh>, originally from Indian Himalayas, and I live between Germany and India. I'm the founder of Fernweh Fair Travel Uplifting Communities. Um, so we are a woman led and run, uh, award-winning and internationally, um, recognized project. So what I'm doing by, through this, uh, travel project, I'm empowering women and youth, and we are offering these really deep, immersive unique and authentic, uh, cultural and nature, uh, experiences, you know, and, um, but these are transformational experiences which not only transform our guests, but also the host and people like us, the leaders who are leading and who are forming the partnerships. Every time I do these trips, I learn something new and, um, yeah, this is my passion and that's what I'm doing. And besides that, I'm a consultant for, uh, committee-based tourism. Yeah. And I would like to share that very soon. We are launching, Fernweh is launching, uh, educational programs. We would like to work with universities, schools, and, um, you know, educational institutes. So yeah, new things are happening.
Christine: Excellent. Well, I'm so excited because I know, and we're gonna dive into this later in the conversation, but this has been a long journey to get here, and so I'm very excited to see where you are now and where you're headed. Um, but before we get there, I'd actually love to understand how you got into the tourism industry and, and really how travel kind of first presented itself to you, and how you knew this was a space that you could create a positive impact.
Poonam: Thank you. So, um, I'm not a professional from travel industry was <laugh> and, uh, but I've been a traveler since I'm born. I've never lived at one place longer than three years. And since 27 years, I'm out of India. Uh, I lived in different countries three years. Three years. And the reason of living in a country for three years is because I wanted to, you know, for me, traveling is, uh, really soaking the, the, you know, the culture, the, the heart of a country, which lies with the people, you know. So me rather than hanging out with expats, I used to always hang with, uh, local people. Yeah. So this has been my passion. And my first solo, uh, trip was when I was 14, imagine in India, 14, fighting with the parents to go for this trip. Anyway, it worked. So yeah, that was my passion.
And this, uh, this happened just by chance. Uh, I wouldn't call it accident, maybe you have a better word, but yeah. Just happened. It was not planned. So in, I mean, in 2005, we made a women's shelter in Indian Himalayas. And, um, you know, just to help the local women in Himalayas, women are the one who are working and they work hard and a lot. And, but the women, women, they, the, let's say the society is not fair to them. They have really, um, they're basically underprivileged. So we wanted to have me and my, with my family, you know, my brother, my sister, my mother, we saved money and we opened this women's shelter to help the, uh, women, elderly, whoever, doesn't matter. So 2009, when I had my, uh, first two children, I was, uh, at my mom's place in Himalayas. And there this, uh, girl came 22 year old girl.
She had two daughters, and she was pregnant. And she came and she said, uh, could you help me? You know, I, I don't know what to do. And she was okay. She, she was a widow. And in those part of India's India, if you are a widow, you can never marry again. And, you know, it's, it's, it's really sad. And having daughters, it means, you know, you, you, it's expensive. You must have heard the dowry system in India mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I was like, okay, how about you just come and stay in this, uh, women's shelter and you can work in my mom's garden and, uh, you know, mom can, uh, pay you some money also, and we can send your daughters to this school. And she said, no, I cannot do that because my in-laws will never allow that. I'm like, okay, then I can't help you.
Sorry. You know, we can't do anything. If your in-laws do not want that, then we, we, we don't know, she left. So I couldn't sleep that, that night. And, um, you know, this was the time. I will say this was the changing point of my life, and thank God this happened because I found the purpose of my life. I did little research next day, morning, took my bike, drove around, did little research, and found out there were loads and loads of young widows, 19 to 25 years old, and lot of victims of domestic violence because of alcohol problem. So, you know, uh, men getting drunk, young boys getting drunk because they get married when they're very young, still partying, you know, getting drunk, hiking back to their, uh, homes, falling off the mountains and dying. And the men who survive, they get drunk and they beat up their wives.
Doesn't matter the age, even a 70 year old gets the beatings. So I just couldn't see this. And I was like, okay, I need to do something. This was the time I decided, okay, what should I do? And then I was just sitting. And then they realized, wow, look what kind of nature I'm surrounded by. Look at, you know, uh, look at, look at, look at the culture, look at these colorful clothes. Look at, you know, everybody's so happy. I'm like, we could maybe, you know, start like a travel experience program here. I had no idea. I did not know all this. No, I had, I was zero. I just knew how to travel. And I was like, okay, how about I'm gonna create something what I love doing, you know, getting to the roots of the country and interact with the grassroots level people rather than go, you know?
So that's what I did. It took me five years to convince the communities, because community, they were not ready to do it for them. These girls, they are almost like slaves. They work in the fields house and looking after the animals, they go to the forest for hours and hours, collect like heavy, heavy load of wood grass for their animals. So yeah, tough life, but I did not give up. I kept on doing this, took five years, but finally, uh, you know, communities agreed and they agreed. I kept on going because these girls wanted to do that. You know, if they wouldn't have been entrusted, I would've never done it. So basically I saw a problem, I looked for a solution, and I did the whole planning, and it took some time. And I must say, to start a community-based tourism, it's not easy, you know, it's like, uh, it's tough.
So that's where it started. That's the journey it took. And it took some time to learn how to deal with the communities, how to actually step out in a travel world, and, um, you know, introduce yourself that, hello, I also exist, you know, when you don't know anything. And I was, I'm from international logistic. I have, I have no idea what marketing or sales or anything. So it was a tough journey. But today, in fact, today I'm at a place where I'm super happy, and that's like almost now, 10 years. Yeah. Now I can say it was worth it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> difficult, but worth it. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. And, um, I think really one of the important things that, uh, you know, I take away from that is understanding the foundation of community-based tourism. And like you said, that you had kind of the catalyst was this woman coming to you and you saw that there was some need, but before you could even begin to answer that need, you had to fully understand the problem and understand what a solution could look like, and realizing that the shelter, while it was creating some assistance, wasn't really solving the overarching problem and the, and the cultural things that were in place that really were keeping these women from having these opportunities, even if they did exist. And so unraveling all of that, I think that's so important because so many of us in the tourism industry, um, have started to look at community based or community led tourism and say, okay, instead of coming into a community and saying, here's the answers to your problems, we're gonna put this in place, which is kind of what early community based tourism looked like.
We're really understanding that that is not creating anything that's sustainable and is not actually serving communities. While it might create a, you know, an opportunity in the moment, it's not something that is fully sustainable. And so I, I love that you kind of we're able to dive into that and see what could really create opportunity. And then also, I think the other thing that's really important there is that I think a lot of us, when we are travelers and we see these issues and we want to do something, we want to do something like right now, and we want to create an impact right now. And I think recognizing that there's not often a right now solution, that it is something that you are going to have to really put your heart and soul into for a long amount of time before you might see the benefit that you are looking for.
Poonam: It is, it is a test. It's endurance. It's, it's not an easy journey. And for me, it was very clear from starting. I was like, you know, the, the, the shelter is a different story, but I realized that I do not want to give them the fish. I want to teach them how to fish till date. I work with the women who want to work. I do not plead, I do not force people to do that. But there are so many women who want to do this, you know? So I mean, it's beautiful. Yeah. But the impact I see every day, and I hear, and the hugs I get there are, you can't measure that.
Christine: Yeah. And I think too, one of the, the outstanding things that, for me, really, I first read about your work in the New York Times in an article in 2022, and we were, we were sharing that, and before I met you, and then I was so excited. I'm like, oh my gosh, I get to meet pum. She's this woman who's doing this amazing project. Because for me, looking at ways that tourism can support gender equity and, uh, you know, eliminate systems of oppression for women, this is something I'm really passionate about. So when I saw the work that you were doing, I was so inspired. Um, but the story of these women who are widows, who then basically become a burden to the system, but then, like you said, they're also being used basically for all of the work that these communities don't want to do. So it doesn't serve them to give them a job. Like you really had to get in there and unravel some, some really strong systemic issues. And so I think, um, I, it just really, for me was so eye-opening of what we need to look at when we're starting to put things like this in place.
Poonam: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of work there, you know, uh, and the thing is, in community, uh, any community-based tourism, I believe you don't really have to train them. So that, that was my framework. That's how I worked. I didn't have to train anyone. I wanted them to offer authentic experiences, sharing their life. What, what is a himan life? You know, how look at our architecture, they know why we build the houses like this. Why are we going this, why are we cooking like this? There are waste. So it was just, they had to share that with our guest, you know, then it's authentic and then people are interacting with each other, the guest and the, and the, uh, host. And for me, it was very important that it's sustainable. That's why I have taken a decision that every year there will be only certain amount of trips, not more than that, because I do not want to start, um, you know, like mass tourism there. And it needs to stay unique on and authentic and yeah. So that's what I've been trying.
Christine: Yeah. Well, and I had a, a question regarding that for you as well, is that I know you are looking for these really strategic partnerships and that you want to grow to support these communities, but you're also conscious of preserving the culture and protecting the environment. And it's sometimes in business so counterintuitive to have a business strategy for growth that has an endpoint <laugh>. So usually we just think, you know, you grow until you can't grow anymore, that success in business. But I think when we're looking at sustainable tourism, we do have to understand that point that we're trying to grow too. And I'm wondering how when you really began to understand that, how did you determine what that limit is? That creates opportunity, but still offers a balance.
Poonam: See, um, because I'm almost a local, and these people who are living there, they are, um, farmers. It's not that they are poor, right? Uh, they have their homes, they are happy, they're laughing all the time. But I wanted to create this little side thing because they still have to do their field work, their animals, their homes, they have all this thing. So I wanted to create something which they could do on the side, hence just let's say 15 trips per year, right? Once we have achieved that point, I will stop there, but we are going to replicate the thing somewhere else, you know, so increase the impact.
Christine: Um, no, I think that's, it's such a, a, a powerful awareness, I think because as you start launching a business, and especially if you're taking, you know, courses in, uh, entrepreneurship and business management and tourism development, that they all are gonna kind of tell you something that, that isn't aligned with that plan or with that growth strategy. Um, and so I think really stepping up and honoring those values for sustainable growth is so important. And, and I really, uh, appreciate that that is something that you have put into place. And then the other thing that we've talked about is really how you can create as much impact as possible, especially for the women that you have mentioned. And you had shared that, for example, if I were to lead a trip for Lotus Sojourns for 10 days, I have the possibility to actually impact over 600 women. And this was something that, especially given my values, is super important. But I would love to understand some of the ways that you work to ensure that you're having that vast of an impact with your experiences.
Poonam: So first of all, it's not the possibility it happens, uh, 10 days trip, or 10 to 14 days trip, eight to 16 people, you do impact 657 people, out of which 607 abdomen. Yes. Yes. We had, you know, so, uh, I must say before Corona, the impact was not this huge. Corona gave time to everyone, right? And then I had worked on the structure, and it's very simple how we did it. So for example, uh, every little village, they have a small self, uh, women groups. So what these ladies do, uh, they do like, uh, let's say, um, 10, uh, no, $10, huge, uh, $2. One lady will put the next month, other lady will put $2, you know, they, they, it's like a little bank. And when there is a problem, you know, somebody's sick or somebody's family member, you know, they need money, they take a loan from that.
So they have this little bank. Every village, they have this. So what we and my, my whole team, we were like brainstorming what we should do. So this is what we came up with. So yes, we have, uh, village, uh, experience like village Immer immersive day, and then we have handicraft days. And, you know, we have, uh, three, four, uh, experiences where we go into the villages. Besides that, we are like trekking to like some really, uh, like, you know, some amazing ancient temples, or really some hidden holy places. Probably holy is not the right word, but yeah. So what we do that to, to go there, I dive it a bit and go through a village. Okay? But so what we did that we contacted these ladies, we said, okay, so we would like to, uh, we would go through your village. What I would like to do is I request to you to keep your villages super clean.
That's your work. You make sure that all the Coke or Pepsi, or, you know, all these things are cleaned up and you keep a village always clean. And, uh, every time a group of mine is coming, I'm gonna pay you, I don't know, 70 or 80, uh, dollars, which is huge for them. Imagine. Now multiply that with 15 or 16, that's a huge amount for these women. Yeah. Yeah. So in their bank, they have this amount of money, and they have, they feel very safe. And this was a very easy way to, uh, include these ladies. Yeah. Besides that, our, um, farm state is looked after women, our guides, our, uh, you know, uh, like trekking, trekking team, everybody, they, they're, they are women like you. Like I said, there are 157 people. So there are some men also like, you know, drivers and like, there are some youth also involved.
So, and then they're like, um, village hostesses, wherever group goes, and they have a meal with them. And you know, there's a village, um, uh, guide who's walking. Whereas we have our, our guide also. But I wanted to include as many women possible. So this doesn't mean if your group is coming, it's not that you'll be surrounded by 600 women, no, you won't see them. But, you know, I wanted to create something where you can measure the impact mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we know the exact number of women who get impacted. So yeah, I'm very proud of it, and I'm super happy about this.
Christine: Yeah, I love that. And I actually, I was just, I'm taking a fellowship course right now, and we were talking about measuring impact. So that, I think that is why as well, that this was so interesting to me is because I'm really looking at my business and trying to quantify impact. And, you know, there's certain, certain I aspects that are not really quantifiable, but I love how you have been able to just really hone in on that impact and be like, okay, this action supports these women and this supports these women. And then, like you said, it's, it's also the ripple beyond who your travelers are immediately engaging with. And I think as travelers, we often don't think about that impact. 'cause we're so present to who is around us. But I love that the conversations that we could create around this are thinking about that broader impact and knowing that you really are creating that as you move through at destination.
Poonam: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, what happens is when a group comes the first day, uh, we do a little and is the intersection going on? The introduction, uh, uh, we do little presentation. So we tell them that you're going to experience this, this, this, this, this. Besides that. Actually, whatever you're doing, you are not donating anyone anything, but your money is going to these people. So when you walk in a village, you know, oh, I'm go, I'm supporting like 40 women of these villages. Look how clean the village is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, yes. So it gives travelers also a good feeling besides that this gives me happiness. And I think, you know, travel, like we, you know, like everybody's talking right now, travel, you know, force for good and all that. This is very true, but we need to do this at the grassroot level. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know how many companies actually go and see what's happening at grassroots level.
Christine: Yeah. I, I feel like, I mean, I don't wanna put any, any, uh, assumptions on anybody, but I do think that smaller companies and, you know, businesses that aren't creating a large number of trips every year have the ability to put their finger on things like that in a different way. Um, and I think there are so many more people now that really have, and especially like you said, through the time of the pandemic, when when we really started seeing the loss that we were faced with, we kind of then understood the depth of our re and, you know, the reach that we had. And I think that's where people were able to really witness how much they were impacting. Like, I think even as businesses, sometimes you aren't present to the, the greater impact that you're having in the lives of, you know, guides and drivers and, and the communities that you go to who are all of a sudden were at a loss.
So I think, um, much like you said, like there was this, this time to be able to say, okay, I see how much this is impacting. Now let's flip that. How much can we amplify that impact as we move back and be more intentional about that? Um, the other thing that I really wanted to talk to you about, and you kind of mentioned a little bit of, of the, um, the transformational power of travel and, and that aspect. But I wanted to dive into that a little bit more because I know, um, that's something that you and I both really love about travel is how rich and rewarding it can be personally, in addition to how it supports communities. And when you kind of bring together the things we love, like adventure, connecting to people and nature and spirituality and culture, it becomes really rich. Um, can you share a little bit about how you bring these elements into the trips that you design and, you know, what inspires you to create that space for your travelers?
Poonam: Um, see, because we all come from different culture, different upbringings, uh, what I request our travelers always is that when they are coming for these trips, just have an open mind, open heart. If you have this attitude, trust me a hundred percent, you will get transformed because you are entering a space where people are mostly happy with little. Yeah. Then you realize what all you have. And, uh, in Himalayas, we still do a lot of foraging, you know, to see how to respect our nature, because nature gives us so much without taking anything from us. Yeah. So a lot of my, um, experiences, they are designed around nature, people, culture, and when there is this exchange, there are, there, there are transformation sometimes when a client, especially a request, we have to even create kind of incidents, you know? So it's like, I don't know, the, the car broke down in middle of nowhere and is surrounded by Himalayas. How are we gonna react, especially for educational, uh, trips, you know, leadership qualities. So we do these kind of things Yeah. Create these kind of, uh, uncomfortable situations for the transformation to happen. Yeah. So there's a lot. We go, we get into a lot of details how to design, you know, and I really, really want our trips. And they, we designed that it is transformational for our host, our al communities also. And it is because they had the opportunity to, uh, interact with each other. Yeah.
Christine: Yeah. I, I can't remember who I was just speaking to, but they were saying that that was kind of a unanticipated, um, effect of the trips that they were creating is especially bringing travelers to places that a lot of people aren't going, is how eager the people are to receive the travelers and how much they learn, and how excited they are to share about their lives and their culture. And, and when they don't always have that opportunity, it does become something really transformational for them. And, um, another person, another past guess too, was just saying also how powerful it is to kind of then witness your own story through someone else's eyes as you share it with them, and how empowering that also can be. And so I think, like you said, those exchanges become very powerful and transformational in a much more equitable way, that it's, it's not all about the traveler, it is about this relationship.
Poonam: Exactly. You know, I mean, come on, you go to this stunning nature accompanied by simple lady in her sari, whereas you are all decked up in your, you know, <laugh> trekking shoes and stuff, and she's in flip flop. It's like, wow. Two extreme parts, you know, the exchange between them and both learn from each other.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. I, I think, you know, if I look back on my travel experiences, all of those moments that are the ones that kind of stick within my soul are those moments like that where you, you're having this exchange and you're kind of, you, you, you're seeing what you have, and it's kind of this compare and contrast that our human brains do, but then you become really engaged in conversation energetically or with words. And also in my mind, I always have a hard time remembering if they were in English, or if we even spoke, or if there was a translator. Like, it, it's such a kind of organic exchange that it, it's really, really powerful. And those experiences, I think are what become really transformative. So if we're kind of going back to that word, if you will, like, those are the things that don't necessarily change who you are, but offer you something else.
Um, well, one of the things too that we mentioned early in the conversation is staying committed to your dreams. And I think this is something that you and I have definitely, uh, navigated, especially being in the tourism industry in the past three years, being in this startup phase, being really dedicated to creating a positive impact. Um, it's something that is really fulfilling, but it's also something that's really draining and, and tiresome. And I think it's not something that we always talk about, but as you mentioned, you know, the place you're in today looking back, it's worth that journey. But I wanted to talk to you a little bit about, um, for people listening who really are driven to create an impact through tourism, how, how do we kind of stay in this for the long run in order to bring our dreams to life?
Poonam: It is an independent thing. It's about your will, your endurance. I was told by my family, my, my mom, my, my husband, my best friends to stop this because they saw how much I was suffering, uh, twice burnout. Yeah. But somehow, every time I thought, oh, I'm gonna step out somehow, I just couldn't. I had to keep on going because I knew that this project is not only they're going is they're going to impact the locals, but also the travelers. You know, these are the kind of experiences which they stay with our travelers. So a lot of time when our guests are coming and they leave, they cry and they, they hug the locals, you know, and they keep coming back. I have like, uh, a pair who are 82 years old from Australia, they're coming back for me. Nothing can be better, uh, compliment than this, you know?
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I knew it that this is the call of my life. I have to stick to this. This is why I was born. You know, we, in, in spiritual language, you say that, you know, we all are born here to do something. And I think I, I'm lucky enough that I found that this is the path of my soul. So seriously, it's an individual thing, and you have to stick to it. So you, if, if, if you, when you wake up in the morning and you're excited to do what you want to do, what you're doing, your work, that is, that is what it is. So stick to it, no matter how many times you fall down. For me, it was always, if I took one step, I was slapped so hard that I used to fall six steps back. I mean, it's not even a joke. This is what happened to me. I can't remember how many times I've cried, how many times. Oh, I can't even tell you. But I'm thankful and I'm, I'm really, you know, grateful that from wherever I got that strength to stick to it. And yes, <laugh> today, I'm happier.
Christine: Yeah. And I mean, and I think one of the important pieces of that is having community, and especially having community that also believes in your vision, because you are gonna have those moments. I mean, I have felt those as well where I'm like, this, this is, this is so far beyond what I can do as one person. And I would just think enough. Like I, I, I really can't even take one more step. I'm so exhausted. I'm heartbroken. And then, like you said, there's just like this thing that just comes back and says, you're not gonna put this down. So like, sit there and catch your breath, and then we're gonna stand back up tomorrow and like, climb back up the hill and keep going. And, you know, being able to have people to call on that say, you know, look, remember this thing or this moment. And like, I believe in your vision, and I, I feel really grateful that you and I have had those conversations over the past few years to say like, okay, like today we're gonna hate this thing, and then tomorrow we're gonna do it again. <laugh>. Um, and I, I think that's, it's really, really important.
Poonam: You know, you need to stay positive. Uh, you always have to think if there's something negative happening. You have to think, why, why am I always failing? Why am I falling off that mountain again and again? Why have to climb that again? This is because universe wants you to become stronger, you know, like unbeatable. So that's the attitude you have to go with. And trust me, you will succeed no matter what. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, just keep going.
Christine: Yeah. Um, and, and that's feels so resonant, uh, to where I'm even in this moment, like, I have been having some health issues before. I'm getting ready to travel for a year, and every time something happens, I just keep thinking like, you know, before I was excited about this trip, but then I like had to fight it because of this reason. And I've had to fight for it now because of this reason. And now I have to like really literally mentally be prepared for it. And I think, okay, there's something about whatever is happening that is allowing me to be who I need to be for this part of this journey. And so, um, I do think that can be really hard as a entrepreneur or as, as someone trying to create, bring a vision to life, to feel like that resistance is a sign that you shouldn't be doing it, instead of being like, okay, this is actually making me the person who is most capable of succeeding.
And so I love that you mentioned that, because I do think I have seen that time and time again in the women that I've interviewed, is that they, they just know, like you said, this is in their soul, which is literally where for me, the soul of travel came from, is knowing these people that no matter the, the circumstance, that thing on the other side is so important. And like you said, the what the travelers get out of it, what the communities get out of it, that moment of you witnessing them having that experience is, is like, it's so powerful. And that's what keeps us
Poonam: Exactly. Moving forward. Exactly. You know, uh, just keep going. At least you will not regret when you're on, on your deathbed that shit I gave up. You know, what if they shouldn't be that? What if, you know, try till, you can just keep on fighting and we have enough strength as individuals, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yes. Sticking to it, endurance is the answer.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And, um, yeah, I, I just, I'm so grateful for the places that have, how me to keep going and persevering and, and choosing to kind of face or to choose the dreams over and over again. Um, well, the last thing that I wanted to talk to you about, which is kind of a fun one and something we never talk about on the podcast, but one of the hats of the mini that you wear is also a volunteer firefighter <laugh>. And so I love that we've like tried to schedule calls and you're like, no, I have, I have my firefighter training, don't you remember? I'm like, no, because I forget that's one of the hats that you wear. But I would love to hear how that happened in your life and kind of how you found yourself that, in that role, and why it's important to you.
Poonam: Well, uh, since I'm a child, I've been really, I had this inclination towards social health, and that's how I do what I do. The, the whole project. And, uh, then, you know, I was here in Germany, I was like, I live in Germany. What am I doing for communities here? You know? And this is how it started. Then I came to know, oh my God, in Germany, in villages, you can be a volunteer firefighter. And I was like, this is amazing, because that suits my personality, <laugh> too much energy. I'm like, let's do this. You know? Yeah. The language is a bit of problem, I must say. But yeah, that's, that's how, and I wanted to do something for the here the German communities. That's why I'm a firefighter. It's not easy, I must say. And especially when you're standing surround by Germans and they're talking in technical German language and you're like, oh my God, am I dumb or what? You know, but, but, but yeah, this also makes me happy. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. I, I love that. And I think that's also one of the things that's been so interesting about the conversations I've had is seeing kind of like this essence, like you said, of this social service show up in all these different ways in people's lives. And, and then from the outside it looks like, gosh, this person is doing this thing and this thing and this thing and this thing. And how on earth do those go together? Or how is one person like so interested in seemingly a diverse set of things, but they, they're really coming out of this one aspect of their personality or this, this thing that, that really drives them and it's being expressed in different ways. So, um, I just wanted to tap into that a little bit mm-hmm. <laugh>, because I think it's so fun and interesting. Um, well, before we end our call, um, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to, um, share how people can get in touch with you.
I know you had mentioned, um, if there are any educational, um, organizations or institutions that would be interested in this kind of experience. And, you know, we mentioned, you know, that you're really looking for strategic partnerships with brands that offer travel experiences that would be aligned with what you're doing. That, that you're really selective. But if people are listening to this and thinking, oh my goodness, this is exactly the kind of experience that my travelers are looking for, um, how best can they reach you? And then we have a few rapid fire questions to enter end our, our conversation. <laugh>
Poonam: <laugh>. Yeah. Uh, uh, via email or, uh, we have a telephone number there. WhatsApp. We have an official WhatsApp number also. But yes, we are looking for B two B relations. I do not do B two C. So B two B with the companies, you know, like yours, uh, where our values align. Uh, you know, because we have to be careful who we bring into these communities. And with this new Fenway educational trip, yes, we are looking for, um, institutional, uh, you know, the educational institutions who would love to do these kind of experiences that, so that they can offer the world better citizens tomorrow. You know, we make that happen. Yeah. And, uh, besides that, I'm also on the side, I'm, uh, supporting another project called, uh, singular Places. So anybody out there who, you know, if they own a beautiful property or they have really beautiful, um, experiences, you know, like really unique experiences and unique places. Impact driven, yeah. Everything impact driven. So we'll be happy to, uh, get in touch and work together.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, okay, so the rapid fire or rapid fire ish questions as I like to call them, um,
Poonam: You didn't tell me before. That's not fair, <laugh>.
Christine: That's okay. They're gonna be easy <laugh>. Um, well, I think they should be easy. Um, what are you reading right now?
Poonam: <laugh>? There's no time. Barcelona. <laugh>.
Christine: <laugh>. Yeah. So you're preparing to to relocate to Barcelona for a while so far, listeners, which is exciting. 'cause it means our paths shall cross there as well. Um, well, if you think of any, um, book that you love that our audience might resonate with, you can always share it with me later. Um, what is,
Poonam: There's one book I read when I was, uh, 13 or 14 called Stein Pro that stayed with me. You know, it's, it's, it's beautiful and how you can take energy from nature and I have done this and it really helped me. So I would advise people to, you know, read it. 'cause you will learn a lot from here.
Christine: Um, I actually just recently was thinking about that book and remembering, I read it, I think very early in college and just thinking it was mind blowing in the moment. And I thought, oh, I'd love to read that again and just see how I would absorb that, that book now, now, yeah. <laugh>. So I might have to put it on my, my Kindle as I travel. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Poonam: Whoa, I have my reflection diary with me, you know, that I'm always writing what I'm grateful for and what is like, something really different I discovered here, and how happy I am in Germany to stay happy. <laugh>.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, to Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while, which is, I know is your favorite way to travel. Where is someplace that you would still love to Sojo
Poonam: Everywhere? That's my answer. Because you see the fan Fenway, the meaning of Fenway is something, I mean, my husband told me that that's what you, you should call your company, because that's the feeling I have all the time. So this actually, in my case, it means, you know, this pain, this ache for the places you've never been, and you know, this ache for the people you've never met. So that's how I feel all the time. Mm-hmm. And I would love to go everywhere. <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I, I really resonate with that. And I feel like that's what my kind of call to travel was, was that ache for connection and understanding and just like under, like unwrapping the story of every place and being immersed in it. And I also was like, why would I travel somewhere for two days? I don't even understand what I could do somewhere in that amount of time. I mean, there are obviously circumstances where that happens, but for me it's like that really being present and, and having the opportunity to understand and take things in and, and become a part of something for a short amount of
Poonam: Time. Exactly. I mean, I even imagine when I go to these, these places, I even imagine, what if I was one of them, how my life would live? And that feels like a different lifetime, you know? It's like sometime with the feeling that you've lived this and you're living this again, oh, you know, these people, oh, there's too much depth in that <laugh> mm-hmm.
Christine: <affirmative>. Yeah. I love that. I know. And I found myself feeling really at home in the places where I should feel maybe the most uncomfortable. But there's just something about how it speaks to me that I'm just like, oh goodness, this place is
Poonam: Exactly
Christine: Really just home to me. And I, I think that speaks to like the shared human condition. And I think that's also something in travel that, that we have those moments, and I think that's why, why it's so important. Um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Poonam: What do I eat? I'm a foodie.
Christine: <laugh>, that's everything. <laugh>.
Poonam: Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. And I, I'm a cook also, so whenever, so this is something I even have a, uh, like a cooking book. So as I'm a foodie and I love cooking, when I go to a country, I always go to the restaurants where locals are sitting. I eat, I try different things and whatever I love, I go next day again. And I speak to the, the, the, you know, the staff, uh, to the cook. If I could just stand next to them because we can't really speak and write down the recipes. So I have a huge notebook where I have recipes from all over the world, from my travels, written the name, whom I learned from which day, and, uh, you know, what, where I was. So it's, it's beautiful memory. So yes, <laugh>, everything.
Christine: Awesome. Impossible to choose. Um, well, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?
Poonam: My father. My father. He always, because he was, uh, I mean he lived all his life in Himalaya till he was 21. And he told me about these amazing forests, uh, forest and the stories of forest fairies and goddesses and, you know, the, the valleys where you could go like valley of flowers, you know, you just enter and there's no one, and you can, you can even like faint because of there's so much fragrance, you know? So he used to talk about this and I used to imagine, and yeah, hello at 14, I said, I wanna go and travel alone. You can't say anything. You are the one, you know, who's been there, <laugh> telling me all this, you know. So yes, my father definitely.
Christine: Yeah. If you could take an adventure with one person, adventure, uh, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Poonam: Wow. Hmm. <laugh>. Well, I'm happy to take my husband and my boys <laugh>.
Christine: Yeah,
Poonam: That's good. Seriously. I mean, it's as simple as that. And that's what I get to do.
Christine: Yeah. Um, so Soul of Travel is for, uh, celebrating women in the travel industry, who is one woman that you admire and would love to recognize in this space.
Poonam: Uh, we know her, Iris. I really admire what she's trying to do, what she's doing, actually not trying to do mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and, uh, supporting women like us. And I really admire you that, uh, because I know I have, I've heard your, heard you so many times now, how, how many struggles you're going through, but you're sticking to your dreams, you know, this is, this is amazing. And that's what we need to, we need to share with the world. Like stick to it.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And thank you for mentioning, um, Iris Escu, she's the founder of Women's Work, which is a accelerator program that we, we both completed and she's been on the podcast. So, um, yeah, I'm grateful that you brought her into this space with us. Um, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I love finally having you here. We've been talking about this for well over a year, so I'm glad that the day has finally come. And, um, I hope that people are really inspired by your vision and, uh, reach out to support the work that you're doing as well.
Poonam: Thank you so much, Christine, for this opportunity. I'm very grateful. <laugh>, and come and visit us when you're visiting Barcelona <laugh>.
Christine: Yes, I will. Thank you.
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