Episode 66- Sarah Ray, Neema Development

Travel

Mar 2

Neema Development believes that a sustainable model coupled with dynamic storytelling and intentional reporting is crucial to an organization's ability to cultivate dedicated, ongoing support. Neema exists to provide the engaging, culturally relevant, data-driven content and training materials your organization needs to establish effective programs, communicate ideas authentically, and achieve the impact you hope for.

Today’s guest is Sarah Ray.

Sarah Ray is the Principal Consultant at Neema Development. Sarah has worked in social enterprise and international development since 2008 when she co-founded Yobel Market as a means of promoting global artisans.

Recognizing a pervasive need for in-depth entrepreneurial training in developing communities, Sarah created the first of several low-barrier business training curricula in 2012, and has since offered her programs to thousands of emerging business owners around the world.

Neema is passionate about partnering to see men and women around the globe receive life-changing knowledge in a manner that is relevant and accessible to their circumstance, education, background, and creed. We pray that the content and training materials we create for nonprofits and social enterprises will propel others toward the abundant life we believe is intended for all.

Neema believes that a sustainable model coupled with dynamic storytelling and intentional reporting is crucial to an organization's ability to cultivate dedicated, ongoing support. Neema exists to provide the engaging, culturally relevant, data driven content and training materials your organization needs to establish effective programs, communicate ideas authentically, and achieve the impact you hope for.

Helping friends succeed in business, gain stability, and achieve long-held dreams brings Sarah great joy. Consulting provides an outlet for her 12 years of experience, now extended to others pursuing sustainable development globally.

Join Christine for her soulful conversation with Sarah Ray.

In this episode, Christine and Sarah discuss:

How Sarah knew travel was how she was going to show up in the world and make a impact
Why providing resources to developing communities helps members engage socially with everyone around them
How Neema Development and Yobel Market started
Teaching people business skills to empower families and communities
How to invest and support communities to create impact

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

To learn more about Sarah Ray and Neema Development visit www.neemadevelopment.com

Follow Sarah Ray and Neema Development on your favorite social platform Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn

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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Sarah Ray (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

community, travel, people, world, life, trip, business, tourism, relationships, journey, sharing, place, conversation, opportunity, development

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.

I am so filled with happiness to be bringing this conversation to you today, we get to talk to one of my favorite humans. While we are still really getting to know each other. We are deeply connected in our personal missions and what we vision for the world. Sarah Ray is the Principal Consultant at Neema Development. She has worked in social enterprise and international development since 2008, when she co founded Yobel Market as a means of promoting global artisans.

Recognizing a pervasive need for in depth entrepreneurial training and developing communities. Sarah created the first of several low barrier business training curricula in 2012 and has since offered her programs to 1000s of emerging businesses around the world. In our conversation, she shares the powerful year-long journey that was a catalyst for all of the work she does now. Sarah desires to see all of humanity liberated from that which holds us captive. Whether the bonds be physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual. We talk more in depth about her business, its impact and how we can all give better and bring communities into the process of creating solutions. Her love for and faith in humanity always brings me great comfort. I hope she brings this light to you here. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Sarah Ray. Welcome to Soul of Travel.

I am so grateful and feeling blessed to be sitting down to speak with Sarah Ray today. She is the Principal Consultant at Neema Development. And she has worked in social enterprise and international development since 2008, when she co founded Yobel Market, which was created as a means to promote global artisans. And that is actually how we connected. We were both working in the space of working with artisans and fair trade artisans around the world and immediately connected on what it means to be engaged in community and empowering women that way and have just kind of kept track of each other over the years. And so I'm so excited Sara to have you here today to talk about the work that you do. So welcome to Soul of Travel.

04:01

Thank you, Christine. I feel so honored to be here and to be speaking with you today. And just love your heart and your company and the way that you connect women and travel with women all around the world and help to create a community of just soulful and mindful individuals living lives in relationships. So just glad to be stepping further into that community with you today.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 04:28

Thank you so much. Well, as we begin our conversation, I would love to just give you the space to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit more about Neema Development. And then from there, we'll explore more in depth the work that you do.

04:45

Sure, thank you. As Christine mentioned, I am the Founder and Principal Consultant and Neema Development. It's a company that has been around for about three to four years now. But was really birthed out of the experience I have been privileged to have since 2008 of working internationally alongside developing communities to help encourage entrepreneurship and income generation and means to be able to sustainably leave poverty, but also dream big dreams for the sake of their lives, their families, their communities, and come alongside of those dreams and help to brainstorm and equip and provide resources that would allow those dreams to come to fruition in different places.

So after doing that, through fair trade and equitable trade, for a number of years, I was able to also work to bring entrepreneurial training to a number of different communities and to create curriculum and programs that would inspire entrepreneurship and provide skills and education and resources that aren't as easily accessed by many, many people around the world who are extremely gifted at entrepreneurship and just need a few extra tools to be able to step out and be successful in business that will provide not only sustainably for themselves and their families, but also create jobs in their communities and bring goods and services that are needed to some of those far flung places that will help increase development.

So after doing that, for a number of years, within the business world in the nonprofit world, I decided to take some of the skills that I had gained through that, and then offer them as a consultant to other grassroot nonprofits and social enterprises that are seeking to do similar things and are doing great work all around the world and maybe want to add an entrepreneurship component to what they already do in the realm of partnering with local communities. So that's kind of me vocationally, as a person, I live here in Colorado, and have been here for 16 years love my mountain life, and so thankful to get to live here. I'm a wife and a mother of a darling, adventuresome, traveling little six year old boy. And, yeah, and just really, really thankful for what I get to be a part of on a regular basis.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 07:17

Thank you for that introduction. I was thinking about how many people who travel in, you know, as we're exploring, we really discover the stories of the world, right. And so many of us, once we create connections with the community, I think that leads to this heart driven, Passion Driven, human driven work. And so I would love for you to share how travel found you how you began exploring. And then when you had this spark, I guess, ignited for you that this is the work and how you want it to show up in the world. Yeah,

08:00

Thank you. It's a fun story. I'm a small town, Missouri girl. So I grew up in the cornfields of a 2000 person farming community. And nobody I knew went anywhere, ever growing up. And I think I'm a firstborn. And so I think I have a little bit of that adventurous risk taking just innately in me and I had really supportive parents, which I'm really grateful for. And so my junior year of college, I remember having this very aha moment, like, got struck by lightning and realized, like, I need to travel the year after I graduate. I'm just, I just do what I mean to do it. And I had been studying the work of Mother Teresa in one of my classes in school, and just was so challenged by her willingness to give her life away to others and to move far away from her home in Romania to Calcutta, India and just be there and immerse her life in a new culture and, and new people in order to help the least of these as she would say, and so I thought, Okay, well, maybe I'll do what she did. Maybe I'll go to India.

And so I actually at that time, like this before email, was a really consistent thing. I wrote a letter to the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta, India, and was like, Can I just come next year and serve with you? And I didn't know what would happen. I got a letter back a month later that was typed on, like an old school typewriter mailed to me in the mail, from the Missionaries of Charity that said, Yes, you can come and if you show up at this bus stop on this day of the week, someone will pick you up. I was like, okay, that's my plan. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go as a 21 year old single girl to India and show up at this bus stop. And thankfully, that didn't end up being my path. I look back at that now and think I was crazy, but I have gone there since then. And it was transformative for me.

But I actually ended up meeting two wonderful women through a backpacking organization. I was a backpacking guide during the summers in college, which is how I eventually made it out here to Colorado. And I met two other girls who were doing that. And they had already put together an around the world trip for the next year. And they invited me to join their trip. And so I got to go to five different nations in eastern Africa, and just serve alongside different organizations that were doing relief work or development work or humanitarian work in the different places. And then we went to Southeast Asia for a couple of months. And then we finished up in Australia, and New Zealand and backpacked around, and it was just for a girl from Missouri, to go at 21 and get to experience all of that completely changed the person that I was. And I think two of the pivotal takeaways from that trip.

For me, where one like, I came in thinking, you know, I had so much to offer. And I quickly realized, sitting in a hut, and, you know, you went to work working with AIDS orphans, and coming alongside an amazingly run indigenous organization that really like I knew nothing. And I did not have much to offer anyone in that situation, they had so much to teach and offer me, but I really had so much to learn and to gain in relationship and in friendship. And I'm still good friends and in a relationship with some of the people that I met that first month, almost 20 years ago, well, yeah, almost 20 years ago. So I'm so thankful, like, what I took away was relationships, and just a little bit more humility about what I really could bring to the table in different parts of the world as someone who wanted to be a helper. So that was the start for me of just having my life shaped and changed by adventure and beauty and relationships born out of travel.

And I came home and really struggled with some of the things I saw on that trip. I mean, the depth of poverty and disease, but also joy and resilience in the midst of trials in Thailand, we encountered because we were on a really high budget trip. We were staying in a really inexpensive area in Bangkok and, and also along the beach somewhere. And we woke up one day in our cheap hostel and recognized that we were in the middle of a red light district. And I had never, in my life heard about the commercial sex trade. At that point, no one had spoken to me about that. I'd never heard the term human trafficking. And we woke up and just saw it and then saw it every single day. For 30 days, we were in Thailand, and I was just so broken. By that experience. My girlfriend and I cried every, day of that trip. And I in my heart was like one thing like God, if there is anything in my life that I could be used for, I want to see an end to this, like, I want to see people set free. And two, I don't ever want to come back to Thailand again.

And thankfully, I have gotten to go back to Thailand several times since then, with organizations that actually are working in the anti human trafficking space. And it's been really redemptive for me, and I've been able to see the country for its beauty and its culture and its people and it's just an amazing place. But yeah, that initial trip when I was 21, has fed into the work that I'm a part of now, which is I want to see, I want to see people set free from what holds them captive. And so often poverty is the root of those injustices that lead towards captivity for many people and captivity in many different forms, not just in the form of slavery, but being held captive by gender inequity or being held captive by oppressive systems of government are being held captive by by poverty in the way that it limits us or being held captive by disease that could be avoided or whatever it happens to be. So I would say that that trip launched so many of the things that I do now because I came home and with the question of like, now I've seen now I have a responsibility now I know what am I meant to do with that knowledge? How am I meant to respond with what I would I am aware of at this point, so

Christine Winebrenner Irick 14:42

Oh, my goodness. Oh, thank you so much for sharing your story. Before we hopped on here, I told you I was not going to gush at how amazing that I think you are and how I just want you to share your story. But I'm like right back to that moment. But I really appreciate you painting that picture. I also grew up in a small, less than 2000 person town in Montana. And so I really resonate with who you were when you started that journey. And it's why I am so deeply passionate about people traveling, it's so much more. And I say this all the time, it's so much more than a vacation. It's so much more than an escape from reality. It's this immersion in humanity.

And that is what I, I want people to experience and like you mentioned, it's, it's not always easy, it's not meant to be easy, right? It's to really meet people where they are, you're going to be challenged, and it's going to be uncomfortable, but that the person you become through that process is who we need to have in this world. So I really appreciate you sharing that journey, and allowing listeners to really experience that with you, because I think it really just does show how travel shapes us and sets us on this path to really create change in the world. And it's such a perfect example of the power of that experience. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah,

16:21

thank you for the opportunity,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 16:22

It's a gift. Well, to go a little bit more into the work that you do, I wanted to start and for those of you listening, we just were before you hopped on here, I was talking about some of the other similarities in our businesses. And actually, before I even went there, for me, this also started in a hut in Uganda. And I don't know if we've ever connected on that.

But I was sitting with a group of women in this village, I don't even know where I was in Uganda, like we had driven so far in a Jeep and got off a road and got off the road. And still we're going and sitting with this community of women and then sharing their stories sharing goods that they had in their homes, and probably much like you like thinking, who is buying these amazing products, how can I connect these brilliant artisans and entrepreneurs and, and village leaders and community leaders with others. And like, that just started me thinking about what that gap was, and I spent a lot of time in that space. So like we have a very similar like, I don't know, very similar and aligned paths. So I'm so thankful for those experiences. And Uganda also, like sitting there thinking, you know, much like you like, oh, I have all this knowledge to give, and I'm so excited to be here and like so quickly learning, like, I have no knowledge to give, and I'm so grateful to be here to receive what I can be taught. And it's a really beautiful moment. Again, it's something that's probably painful, uncomfortable for some people to like, have that very shift that super shift in perception, like we're very much taught in our culture, that we do have the answers, we have the best way of living, and we should take that forth and bring it to everyone else.

And to realize the falseness of that story is really beautiful, I think, and so important again, and this happens through travel and traveling in that way where you really become immersed. So I digress. But I really felt a connection to that part of your story. In our businesses, we both happen to have these names that we are really invested in that tell a part of our story as well as a flower that is a part of our brand. So I wanted to start with what Neema means and why you chose that when you launched your business or your enterprise.

19:00

Yeah, thank you. Neema means grace in Swahili. And I love Swahili just because I've spent so much time in eastern Africa. And I just think it's such a beautiful language and such a great combination of cultures too. So I love names that have meaning. I love names that have connections. And I love names that are unique. And so I was just thinking through what really matters, what's at the core of my consulting company. And it's the reality that we've already both just spoken about, that it's not so much about what we can offer and bring but it's the reality that we all have something to bring to the table we all have a need for one another. So when I think about grace, I think about the reality that I can't do it alone. Even as a consultant, you know, someone might hire you to come in and help solve a problem or help think through strategy, but even in that it's a collaborative process. And I'm drawing from sources outside of myself in order to offer the best that I possibly can to someone else. And so that's a lot of what bird on that name, and then the poppy symbol.

Flower again, I just felt like I was given that I love the poppy and I always have. But then as I was looking into more about it, I realized that it is called, it's referred to as the drought escaper. Because it's a flower that is very drought resistant, it grows in areas that are really harsh, harsh environments, and that don't always receive a lot of rainfall. And yet, when it does rain, the poppy quickly comes to life and blooms this beautiful, vibrant, colorful bloom that you can't mistake if you are drawn to it. And then it quickly scatters its seeds far and wide. And those seeds lie there dormant until the rains come again.

And so that felt really symbolic to me of so many of the people that I have had the honor of working with and coming alongside that they hold this immense, beautiful gift inside of themselves and potential and in a lot of ways are just waiting to be watered with the right opportunity or the right tool. And when they are then they quickly come to just this explosion of life and vibrancy. And then they don't keep it to themselves, right. They then take what they received and they scatter it to the benefit of others to produce new life. And so really the poppy is in honor of the people that I get to work with all around the world that I feel so privileged to know.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 21:51

Hi, it's Christine. Interrupting this episode for just a moment to make sure you know you still have time to join our 2022 Lotus Books Sojourn. This is a unique journey exploring the heart, the mind and the globe through the pages of nine specially selected books written by inspiring female authors. Your journey includes two guided virtual discussions each month with a community of light hearted women, as well as weekly journaling prompts and reflection and an assigned travel companion for each book in the journey. Last year, women said this was one of the most surprising and impactful experiences they had.

Join us for rich discussion, meaningful connection. And an opportunity for exploration from the comfort of your home, or wherever you might be in 2022 your next opportunity to join us is in April for a three or six month experience.

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Now back to our soulful conversation.

Thank you, that is so beautiful. And I just love that it just beautifully translates that relationship into this image. And so I just think that it's so cool when people have that much thought and connection to their brand that I mean, this is what I think is unique about the people I know. And the work that we're doing is that it comes from our soul.

It's not like there's no other choice, really. So we're so deeply connected. And I think that that just really speaks to that level of connection. So thank you so much for sharing that. I know that for you. You have really been drawn to working with entrepreneurs. And it's been very driven by the community, been driven by the people that you're working with, and that you are really passionate about these partnerships and these connections. And so I would love to talk about how you began to understand this need for entrepreneurial training in developing communities. And I know that you created what is really a low barrier business training curriculum, which I think is really important because of what that means for the people that you're working with. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about

24:22

Yeah, absolutely. I always say that I came into this work by accident. It wasn't anything I ever thought I would be doing or plan to do. I took one business class in college and I was really bored. And so is not what I pictured. But again that trip, that first trip and the relationships I built and the question afterwards of how do I respond. I was invited to return to Uganda to that same group of people later by some high school kids actually that I was mentoring here in Colorado that wanted me to take them and so we went back and at that point, I had learned a lot more about the civil war in northern Uganda and the NRA and just the devastation that people had experienced as a result of that and got to visit a community that was, it was opened up, I should say, by two of my Ugandan friends from that first trip, where they had opened 500 acres of their family land to allow fellow tribesmen and women to come and resettle in a place of safety and rebuild their lives.

And it was just such a beautiful, hopeful, redemptive place. And yet, it was in its infancy, and the people who had come had fled by foot with children, you know, tied to their backs, often had lost a spouse or several children. And we're just in such a, just a place of having experienced so much immense trauma and having to start their lives over from the ground up, like literally, digging their house out of the dirt, digging their food out of the dirt, didn't have shoes, didn't have clothes, and they were struggling.

And so, you know, I'm 24 at this point, and I say, Okay, what is it that you most need? Like, if I were able to come alongside you in some way? What do you need? Because I don't, I don't know what you need. And their answers surprised me at the time. And now I've learned that it's, it's more common than I once believed, because many places I'd gone to, I just, I had been asked for money, like I expected that to be their answer, frankly. And instead, they said, We need jobs. And we need a way to put our kids in school so that they can have a hopeful future. And that was the lightbulb moment for me. That's how I can respond. That makes perfect sense. Because it's number one, it's what we all need, we all need a way to provide for ourselves working a job that has dignity, hopefully working in a job that we care about and can draw life from and offer something to the world. And then we need a way to provide for our kids and to see them have a hopeful future. And so I resonated deeply with that request. And, and then also just thought, like, okay, that's something I might be able to do.

So I came home and met up with a guy who had a similar experience on a different trip with a different group of women who asked him for the same thing. And the two of us happen to know each other. And so we had one coffee conversation. And after that we're business partners, and we just put in our weekends, took money from waiting tables and said, Let's fund a grant to this community in northern Uganda to help them get started producing products that they can then mark for a fair wage. And so that was the beginning of Yobel Market. And it just grew and grew very quickly, I think, because it's at the beginning of that fair trade movement, and people were excited to get on board with it. Um, and after doing a kind of fair trade work with artisans for about five years, we started to see some similar kind of gaps in just where communities could go, and what they could realize, for themselves, even being a part of a fair trade initiative.

So you know, buying products from them consistently and paying a fair wage, we were able to help them increase their income, but we didn't feel like we were able to fully help them gain the kind of independence that they would want for themselves. Because they were ultimately still dependent on us to place orders and purchase jewelry and sell it on their behalf. And so we wanted to encourage more of an entrepreneurial mindset. And we also wanted to see their communities develop. And so by buying their products, and then exporting them to the United States or importing them, we were essentially not encouraging them to invest in their own community with goods and services in a way that would bring that community further along as well.

So we decided to look for an entrepreneurial curriculum. So we found one, and we licensed it, and did a pilot course with the same community in Uganda, that we had been working with for five years. And we told them, you know, when we're coming, we really have resources and time and room to train 35 people. And we're gonna be here for a week and just do a week long training with this material. And we showed up the first day of class, and there were 60 people crammed in this tiny, tiny room. And they got there two hours before us, which is just, I mean, if you've traveled and you've heard, you know, words like Africa time or whatever, you know, things typically start later than what you think. But they were there two hours before because they were so eager to receive the knowledge. And that is what we find in almost every place that I've gone since and said hey, we're going to offer business training, who's interested and it's like the whole village.

Turns out everybody wants business skills, because there's so much hope in that to be able to provide for them themselves. And so from that first business training class of 60 people we saw 17 local businesses begin that weren't there prior. And when we came back a year later, I think they were all for the most part still in business and had grown or expanded in some capacity. And it was things like, you know, bicycle repair shops, and little, you know, stationery shops for school supplies and tailoring shops and barber shops and little takeout food shops. And one guy started a movie theater in this little seven by five room where he would show films on a generator three times a day. And it's just so fun to see people's creativity and to then know that the community was benefiting, and that their income was going to be more stable because they were drawing from a local source that had consistent demand. Whereas our market in the US for luxury and commodity items just ebbs and flows, and it's constantly changing, and we have to come out with new styles every six months to keep up with demand, it just felt like our market was fickle. And I never knew what would happen if we went out of business.

And knowing now that they had the skills to be able to start their own business locally, took that weight off my shoulders, but also just empowered them to really be able to shape their own futures and have more autonomy over that. And also to recognize it, not everybody's an artisan. So, you know, having a fair trade market, I could only employ people who wanted to do crafts and, and felt like that was something that they could be a part of. And by teaching people business, it was like we could think more about who you are as an individual, what amazing gifts and talents and skills are inside of you. And how do we encourage those things to come to life, to the benefit of your family and your community.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:54

It's so amazing to hear that journey, again, because there's so many points of resonance for me. But when you talk about the businesses that they created, if you were coming in as maybe these outside experts, you would have never thought of those businesses, right? Like we don't we don't know the needs of this community, or like you said, the passion. I mean, we probably certainly wouldn't have suggested a movie theater. I mean, which is so incredible, then you get to see this, the creativity that is born. And like you said, Everyone is so excited, they're personally invested. And when you look at, like you said, the exporting and the volatility in that I'm really linking that to tourism right now, right? Because all of these communities that did become invested in tourism are very much in the same situation. Now their consumers are not able to travel, they're not able to support them. And so they created these businesses, but they were for someone else. And so I love thinking about how the work that you're doing is allowing these communities to rely upon one another.

And I know there's so many travel companies who have tried to merge these two ideas together so that while you're creating something that may serve a tourist, it's also fully serving the community. And even from the story that you told, like as a traveler I get to come and see this bike shop, and this movie theater and visit, you know, an entrepreneur that started this other business. For me, that would be such a valuable experience. And it's not taking away from how their community is already existing. It's not creating something simply for me, I'm just getting to experience their life through their experiences. So I love that image and that way of looking at what we're offering. And I think that that ties so well into another part of what I wanted to speak to you about is talking about how we can invest in supporting local communities better, because as we do travel, much like you were greatly impacted by what we're seeing. And as humans, we definitely want to give back.

We want to find a way to create an impact and we often operate within existing structures that are very one sided giving, they're not necessarily like while they may be heart centered or have the best intention. We're not looking at it from a community perspective and we're also doing it from a place of wanting to make ourselves feel better about what we saw. And again, not not chastising anyone for having that response. That's I think 100% Real and human, but we're not always thinking about what's happening after the giving. And what that is really the long term impact on a community. So I would love for you to talk about what it's like to give better to follow the leadership of communities in that giving process and making it a more even and real, something that is a real impact. Yeah, that's great.

35:28

And I would honestly love to hear your perspective on that, too. Because as insofar as the travel world goes, and how travelers can intersect, whether it's during a journey, or after a journey based on how they've been impacted by their time in a particular place, or with a particular people, I think that you are by far the expert in that, in that realm, as far as you know, giving opportunities or investing opportunities within different communities that we might intersect with or have a special connection to. I mean, of course, the way we travel is so important, right? And how which places we choose to stay and how we choose to tread. And walking while we're in a place says a lot and impacts in greater concentric circles than we can probably imagine.

So I know that you can speak to that much better than I can, Christine. But when I think about how to intersect with a community in a way that might be helpful, I first think about how we can have a mutually transformative relationship in this scenario? So I believe that we're all meant to learn and receive and give toward each other in a give and take sort of fashion. And so I think having that mindset of, first of all, what do I have to learn while I'm here? What am I meant to receive? How am I meant to change my perspective or my knowledge or understanding? And then to, how can I come alongside I think and understand what it is that this community dreams of and desires for themselves? And asking good questions about that is, what are your dreams for the future? What are your goals? What do you see as your greatest community needs? And then thinking through? Who's the hero of the story?

You know, I think in the past, sometimes, there's been a tendency in humanitarian work to almost make the humanitarian the hero, and I think that narrative is shifting, thankfully. And really the hero of the stories is the community themselves, and how do we elevate them in our own perspective to say, how do we help them realize their own goals? Like how and how do we encourage them in that and be the people who come alongside and say, Yes, you can, you can achieve that thing. And then I think it comes the most sustainable aid efforts or partnership efforts, whatever word you want to use in that are truly those who are focused on capacity building and looking down the road to what is the long term effect of the choice or connection that I'm making right now? And so always been willing to ask that question of, of what will be the impact of this action on this community long term? And what will this communicate to this community long term? And how do we invest in things that are ultimately geared towards allowing this community to receive the skills and the opportunities that they need to be able to achieve and affect change for themselves that they envision for themselves?

And, and yeah, stepping in where it seems like, we're able to lend a hand in those areas or connect resources in those areas or bring opportunities to learn new skills in those areas seem to be the most, I think, respectful and dignified ways that we can invest in a in a community that we seek to partner with or come alongside. And that doesn't discount the fact that there's always a need for, you know, aid in different parts of the world that are really suffering and struggling. And in that regard, I think you're not always thinking about the long term, you're thinking about the immediate need to save lives. But oftentimes, I don't think we're intersecting as much with those areas as we travel. And so if those you know, if aid is on your heart, then I just recommend finding a really reputable organization that's doing good work and investing with them because they're the experts. In that regard,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 40:01

Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I think it just comes down to, you know, so much as what you're saying is letting the communities be in the driver's seat for their growth and their development and for the entrepreneurs for, you know, greater communities for families. And I think, when you look at it from a travel lens, the same thing can be done, if you are working in an area where tourism maybe it's an already developed or even if it is a popular destination, actually taking the time to meet with community leaders, and saying, like, what do you want travel to look like? What does tourism look like here?

How would you like to receive guests? Would you even like to receive guests, and then build from that place up, because then just like you said, then we can say, okay, great, this structure is already in place, here's where you could use support, here's where maybe a grant would be helpful in achieving this goal. And then you're building something together, that's going to have more longevity. And you also then have a community who's really invested in tourism, because in travel, that sometimes can become very one sided and extractive and the travel, it's much for the traveler benefit, but not always for the community benefit.

And then the community, rightfully so, is less inclined to be excited about engaging in tourism, or just because they're dependent on it, they are engaged in it, but it's not coming from this place of authentic passion or purpose. And so I think there's just so much in the similarities in the ways that we can approach this both from creating community value development and bringing tourism to communities. So thank you for kind of walking us through that and being able to create those parallels. I think, before, before we end, I'm just wondering, in terms of the work that you do, obviously, so much of it is in the fields, how has the pandemic reshaped the work that you're doing, when you haven't been able to be in the field has anything surprising come out of not being able to be there when that's so much a part of your process?

42:22

Yeah, thank you, it has been a huge shift, it has felt like, I think, initially, you know, I just you don't, we didn't know how long this was going to last. So you just sort of pushed pause for a little while and, and then as we kind of saw that, okay, this is gonna be around a little bit longer than we thought, then I started brainstorming, how can we continue to empower communities with entrepreneurship, when I can't be there in person. And so it's been fun, I've been getting to learn new platforms. And you know, of course, Zoom has transformed all of our lives mostly for the better.

And so I've started offering an online trainer trainers course, to teach leaders in different areas of the world and or teach leaders of development minded NGOs here in the United States, how they can use the curriculum that I've written to teach business, within their own communities. And the fun part about that has been, you know, getting to gather like minded individuals and community leaders, organizational leaders from all over the place into a call every week for we do it for eight weeks, and get to know each other and get to know each other's organizations and work and then be able to encourage each other and brainstorm together and, you know, those that are on the ground are able to take the material then after, after the training, and be able to implement it almost right away, I have two of those groups from this fall's course that are starting their entrepreneurial training courses this January, which is really exciting as well, once in January, and I think one is in February.

So it's just fun to see that being able to happen, even though I'm not able to go and train in person anymore. And I'm looking forward to teaching another one of those classes this coming spring. So that's been one thing. And then I think the other thing has just been that, oh, I, I can help nonprofits who are based here with other things that I know how to do that maybe aren't my major. But there are things that I've picked up along the way that can help others be able to be more effective in their programming, or build out something new that maybe they didn't have before or think about measurement and evaluation in a new way or create content and messaging that's a little bit clearer for their support base. So I've just been picking up those jobs consulting as well. And that's not something that I would have expected but it's actually been really fun and great to build relationships with organizations I wouldn't have gotten to know otherwise.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 44:55

I think that also speaks to the spirit of clubs. aberration that has risen throughout this period of time as well. So I imagine just the the ways that you can support each other when you bring those different organizations together, not that they would have been in competition before, but because they can be in collaboration, all of a sudden, there's new things that they're going to be able to bring to their communities and new ways that they're going to be able to grow and support, which they might not have done in isolation. And so I think I've seen throughout the tourism industry, definitely that but it would be interesting that that's probably also occurring amongst these people as well, that you're working with.